Menachos Daf 57

All right, Zion Monday's Daf picking it up four lines from the bottom of so you put the on this which you obviously can't do. You're not supposed to allow it to become and you go on your merry way. So you might think, hey, I didn't do anything. All I did was put some on the issa and then I left. Still just like you would be in a similar kind of mat on. It doesn't shock us when on hashab is if you do a misa that will result in a mala. Let's say you put a pot on the stove. All I did was put something down. I didn't do the cooking. The fire underneath the pot did the cooking but that is the surah of the in other contexts we might look at it as kind of a groma but by will be and in the same way is by the making it result in will also be the fact but in a similar case of it wouldn't be of moving over if you put the meat on the coals on shabas so he that now your mahape meat, you turn it over. So therefore, it's going to get cooked on both sides of the meat. Then you'll be But if you don't turn over that meat, you'll be putter. So you're not really user for just putting meat on the coals without doing a misa. So why would rai say that you're going to be putting the on the dough just like you would be on shabas? It's shabas. The case of putting the on the is when you're doing when you're doing a roasting because it could be it requires flipping over the meat because that's its but putting the on the dough is its misa of being. So allowing the dough to become is whatever that is if it's required to be flipping it. So then now let's go into this some more. is so if you tell me it's the as such that if you don't flip over the meat it would not ever become cooked obviously you're not if you never flip it it never gets cooked what's the case it's going to get cooked anyway then why are you not so what's the case of the requirement of flipping it if you don't flip it over one side of the meat will get cooked likeis one third cooked cooked, one half cooked, but it's this lower level of cooking. And if you are that is only cooked on one side, that's not considered the definition of cooking. That's if in one area of the meat on one side of the meat it got cooked the size of a gregaras that will be enough for Shabas. It sounds like you're only if it's in one location, but two or three says if you drill any size hole, you'll be on what's the case where you're for drilling that hole. If it's only in one place, that can't be because you have to be able to do a constructive and the single hole is not going to be enough. must be we're talking about because the multiple holes can now be combined to become one bigger hole and we see so what do we see from this that doing the small little insignificant actions can be combined together to make it into one more action for the shabas in the same way if you cook a small amount of meat in different locations that should also be enough for the shabas of the bishop which the says no there's another way to understand the mission in shabas we're talking about where you drilled the hole only in one location and I you were assuming that it's not useful It's the mat of somehow a tip of a key can be put in there. But the point is that it is useful and it is going to be even for the single small hole. Even if you cook the meat in two or three different places, you're still going to be because you can bear those different areas for the minimum shear of the bishom. You drill any amount you'll be useful at all. To which then the garra says light it's not true that you're saying that the case of the drilling is multiple cases but what's it going to be for so in this it was a slight different way of how the conversation went the says had the only said that you shouldn't let the carbon become it's only going to be on theates but not the rest of the carbon How do you know that the is also going to be by the carbon itself that you can't let the become even before you take away that dash the extra word to say that the whole has this of becoming because that was actually talking specifically about how do you know by all the other carbon going back to the only that you can bring to Hashem that's the one that you could bring as the carbon about a carbon that became pussle like for example Rashi says became it had a or became tame there won't be any of except for a kusher carbon and we mentioned yesterday from the briskarov about the difference between the kmates and the shirim of the mil because once the thing becomes pussle you can no longer bring it and therefore there wouldn't be any is being after it was already let's say someone let the dough of the mka become the yas and then the dough left the mikda and then he went ahead and did Another is the guy just like somebody who already had a or maybe now he's because it has already and now we speak out the since it already had so then maybe since it already became before it had it won't be affected by the and now when he comes to be Then to which the obliv say before he burned it on the that's when he let it become he already brought it on the so therefore it's already too late and you're not going to be over the lava making it didn't burn it yet so therefore it's still considered like it hasn't been brought and therefore you should still be for the now As we said the word that the entire cannot become sounds like we're only talking about the that's the part that you actually bring on the but implies the whole carbon we know by every carbon and every carbon there's always a that gets along with it and there's no that's taken from that it's all burned. So the of this is going to be that you're going to also have the even for the upon that are put on the from one chabs to the next that they also have the iser of now according to who learned that it was coming and when we say may peris it's lav davka it doesn't mean you're using apple juice but it's the things that are other than water because in this case it's going to be the shemen or the honey and that's what's mixed with the flour turning over to basu It doesn't ever become with these meaning things that are other than water. So it's impossible that a could come into marba by the it wouldn't become this. So even though there's the parish in there still added water which now makes it to become and that's why the would be according to in the of course cracks open the whole of the mat a whether or not it can be at all. How literal is this of maybe it makes into the way you prepare the upon him is by using the measure solids not liquids those kinds of don't create the and only become the once it's put on the but at this point in the process they won't have that level of kadusha and therefore the shouldn't matter so how can say that to coming what's in the upon him doesn't have it yet. So the gar seems to be mask him and say okay we got to switch around the bryerish this is how he's supposed to present this bryer switch it around because it was only issue like about not being Scottish yet. So we switched it around now. It's gonna be okay. And this that we're referring to is that these that were designated only for dry measurements had their says and however says I'll bring that there was no mash at all on the measuring only the meas because that they're not that flower that's put inside them as it says by the they become only after they're baked but not when they're put into the because it's not at that point. So what's the we're discussing here? It's dash the word in that of the and therefore had its however let's go back to what we said earlier. that the kale that were designated for were not who the so this should have been an option for when he was lining up the bry didn't want to put together with because they had on a different issue by the mid because hold these kum were only kadesh on the inside where holds it was both the inside and the outside so because of that mle didn't want to say that and were saying the same thing fammora Omar there was another simple solution about using for the upon him because remember the ownita was that you can't tell me it's coming to be if it's not yet until you actually put it on the because the kal itself is not there's that bowl where the oil and the flour were mixed where they did the bal and that's the and therefore even according to that should be madesh the do of the upon him and therefore you should have the issue of and for the armor biases back to a republic going you need it for a case when you actually did the kneading of the on top of this piece of leather and therefore it's not going to become so if you're telling me you're allowed to use a nonlayaris like that so what had said to say back to where he did the measurement of the flower in a nongdish because you see it's not so critical to do that So say that he put it into the never said you got to do it in a to knead the dough and if you knead the dough on top of this piece of leather le there's no problem you're allowed to do that but by the case of the when you have to measure it the says you got to make an isern and measure the flower in it can't do that so could never have said that a nondishan and could be used to make the flour cuz it was always being measured in a proper kay.