Menachos Daf 51

All right. And let's pick it up from the two dots on. How do we actually make the first you bake it? Then you fry it. First you fry it and then you bake it. Makes more sense. Like I'm saying that it's that why should you do the first? Because the pusk says tufine it's an interesting word and he understands that word to mean first you got to bake it so it' be nice it's more gushmak when something is baked first and then fried if you fry it first rashi says it'll be and it'll become blackened from the oil and won't be as in the way it looks makes more sense to first fry it because he and the n here he means partially cooked so that means before you bake it it already has to be first fried cuz at that point it's partially cooked. That's the expression of N without the olive but the order is actually because the B it says meaning like it's partially cooked already it has to look beautiful which is more like and which could be a third sheet and now it should be baked a lot. So isli holds both that it has to be partially cooked and that it has to be no it has to be nicel looking and rashi brings three different of what exactly means are you repeating the cooking process and in the third chen rashi he says that it's raka instead of ra the kav is first fried in lots of oil which makes it look beautiful so therefore when it's baked it's going to be no and beautiful and since it's not finished until it's finished baking it's mim the of partially being cooked so essentially it's deep fried anh we learned in the misha coming up later all the preparation of the are done. And the way Rashi understands this is all the preparatory parts, the kneading and the shaping of the kavan all has to be done within the mdash. Now that would imply that there's going to be and you can't take it out. But why would there be a psily unless the measuring kalem actually gave it a kaduca the rashi holds normal we don't use that would imbue a kaducious because we're for these but here since it's only the kayen who does this a we can rest assured that he won't have any problems and therefore it can all be done within the confines of the of the basdosh but the mubetes argues with rashi and says it's not that those kum that do the measuring are any different to now imbue it with kaduca and the only between the kav and the other ones is that these are kabas that the tells you you have to do all these malas even on Shabas. Now how do I know that all those preparations for the are also done on Shabas has to be done so it's beautiful which comes as a result of baking it and let's say you do it yesterday before Shabas enough it'll become stale so therefore if you have to make it no it has to be done on chabas itself the one day makes a big difference anybody who's as old as I am and went through Mahina do you remember going down to the canteen to get the day old Schmemell donuts which they sold at a discount and they tasted like the day old donuts This by the way is the mocker why certain rebas are mak to bake matzah on air of pes which of course is a dangerous practice you're living dangerously by doing that but the mila over here of enough would apply to the mats mitzvah it's based on that makes the comparison between the of the matasima makes the matzah are supposed to be so it shouldn't necessarily have the milaha of not being enough of not being stale but anyway that's the mask of lawyakra who says that they had to bake it on shabas and therefore it would stay fresh maybe they wrapped it up with yara some sort of vegetation I guess that was the equivalent of that day's ziplockc bag to keep it fresh so why do you have shabas to keep it fresh prepare it on air of shabas to keep it fresh it's interesting that the gar even makes such a suggestion that we try to minimize the amount of shabas the mikdash in makes a very important comment over here that you see that we try to be a even when there is a drussia to be and he says in reference to the kash thet has a kash that why don't we suggest that multiple should do the onabas in order to minimize the because would not be and the mdavid says that we want to be the even though there's a but still that's only going to be in preparatory things not the is totally but things like this the baking of the which is only a for the actual that we would try to minimize even despite the of back to our I'll give you another mocker for the of doing these preparatory things on shabas because the says which that neither shabas or tum should stand in the way of the moving over to there's a heish of the carbon to the carbon and just like the carbon is and can be done in a mat of toma so to these could be shabas and even be brought in a mat of toma a third mocker from the fact the terror refers to it as a so clearly it needs a and if you do something with a clicharis which imbuss it with the condition you're going to have a problem of selina and therefore it's that you don't have the option of leaving it overnight you have to actually do that this is going to be a lengthy bry which we're going to spend a little bit of time now working out how to read it you need to have a clearism and what are we using the for to add on more oil than you would think to need. But how much extra do I add more than a regular I'll learn from the following it says you have to have also I continues the so how much oil do we need? What do we compare it to? Is the going to be compared to the or So which one is the more comparable to we use the gears of which is an acronym that has the comparable things of it's brought every single day both in the morning and in the afternoon that's the shin and that's the test don't learn which has the tash from a that doesn't have theat okay but what's the other option done in what's stand for because has the sur of a carbon it's not so pure we'll talk more on about whether whether or not it's actually a carbon or not, but it certainly has the of a it's brought on its own accord, but not because of some other as opposed to the are brought because of another carbon and they both include the as an ingredient has all three differences. So since we're which one's more comparable to to know how much oil to add to the we're going to is more comparable to the by the carbon of those. Maybe there's another way to look at it. There's also in those so it's a different amount. So how do we look at the do we compare it to the or to the so which one is the more comparable to that both the and the ma that come along with the carbon tid had one is as opposed to the mka that was brought with the par and the isle the aim because that's how much you need either two for the or three for the par interjects to ask on this bryer to clarify how do you understand the actual bryer first you said that the word she in the p is telling you to add more shemen. So clearly you need more than one lug of oil for the later which sounds like you only do need one lug. So which one is it? How do you read the brace itself? The first term is that's arguing and he's actually saying you need to add more oil. Skipping the parenthesis and who's the one who answers back to and learns this to the only be a single lug? That's gonna be or another way to understand the really the whole thing is all and we're going to speak out like his starts off saying there's an extra word he's supposed to add more than usual because if is just telling you I need oil I wouldn't need to say that because it should be just like any other kind of which always needs to have Maybe it's coming to say that it needs oil because I think otherwise that doesn't have so then he said okay it must be that it does need oil because I'll give you and then he wanted to learn it comparing the carbon but he wasn't because of the question of which one is it more comparable to then he needed to ultimately land on the saying so that's how he reconciles the whole the whole is really and this is his inner dialogue of discussing how to work it out the terra says you got to add more shemen if it was only coming to say that you need to have oil as one of the ingredients that would be extra because even if the ter didn't say the word I still could have had my own logical conclusion that you would need more than a single lug for this and then vid and then he tried to learn this demian of comparing the to the of the carbon but it didn't work out because of the counterargument that maybe it should be comparable to so he ultimately landed on the using the p of bash which he originally dioned that needed then the brea that the kavan requires the gimlugan then the bryce finally comes back to riban that darian the bashman requires more than a single lug then riman at the end comes back and says Let the be like the of a par and an which only requires per is and then finally done in turning over bay isulu it's more comparable from mka that has one isarin from another mka that only has one isarin as opposed to the power in the aisle. So there's three different of how to read the braa the last two being kind of the inner dialogue kind of going back and forth. Okay. Let's say they didn't appoint another kayen after the kayangle suddenly died after he brought the first half of his min. So we said in the last mission if there's another kayen the next kayen brings a new half of his whole isarin. But what about zishna? Let's say there is no appointee after him. So Michelle who pays for the who takes care of it becomes and again it was brought from an entire that you take half. Now it's very interesting that says it comes from the AR say that this is relating to the issue of is the a carbon or a carbon. It would sound like if the translates down to the it implies it as a on the there is a cash here the brings it deals with it how can bring the if it's that same day they're there should be puzzle to bring the carbon and it could be they're not really bringing the carbon they're just the mavenian in the sense that they pay for it and the soul of their anus is not going to be a problem for that. Okay, so now the gar is going to get into the bon of which are going to be doing it. You might think he could do it in halves. That's all which is another way of saying the whole until you get a new continues the brace. It has to be completely burned. You got to burn all of it. That there should be no shir. You got to burn the whole thing. Now according to another says now I might have thought that could bring one carbon together on that same day that he became the god. Talmud lamer the ter says no I share and the bonov is not referring to his sons but other khanim who bring a on the first day they serve as a who says it's talking about the maybe talking about the to that we say we already talked about the but anyway the point is used up this p already how can Darian that the are going to pay for the to replace the who died my from his sons we learn two fine so that's how is going to know what's argues he's going to say is going to be paid from money from what does he do with that word in that scenario you can't use that other half for a new single half but rather a half of a whole typically that in the beginning of we should be able to dish in that which says is not going to d that extrav going back to the which going to do with that okay that it's going to be a that's going to be done forever by all future ly why is need to d the kalar that you got to burn the whole thing and not have any shim which had used to tell me that the are going to be paid for by the for I would only know from the earlier that the is going to be completely burned. You know the latter brought by shouldn't be eaten that you're going to compare the from one to the other would make for both of these kinds of we're going to use it to give theert to both of them of suffer is bringing a pock over here. So it sounds like it's a dinda that the zebra has to pay for that second half of the iotan. The Mishna says in the seventh par of schol that it's going to be a draon. There were seven different takonas that be made. Tonus are certainly this is going to be one of them and we list some of these that were made. One of them is if a guy sends a carbon from far away if he sends along with it we can use those if he didn't send that zebra will supply those and another if a dies and left that pays for them. And now these are the which sounds exactly like the case of our Mishna that pays for it not that we bring these for there were two different made the died and we weren't another to take his place it is aa like dash from the that pays for it But but once bezdon saw the bid was running out of money because as Rashi brings from the gar and Yuma there were a lot of unscrupulous that died and this was costing them a lot of money. So taken they made a takarim let's have those kids actually supply the money for those but once bzan saw that the yamim themselves weren't paying it because after all their fathers were it's very likely the were also rashima they went back to the disa which was rashima that the t was going to pay for it. So that's what it means where the Mishnolan had this takona but there still can be the dender risa and this is where we're going to call it and we'll pick it up with the next line about the paraduma for shushan purim again a freelican purim.