Menachos Daf 47

All right. A little bit of Yiddish for you today. And we were talking about yesterday that you could bring the without the but you don't eat them. You wait a bit and then you burn them. The question was what's the actual status of these? So we had Rabba saying you're allowed to eat them said really but we push it off because now we're up to four lines from the bottom of you can eat them. And why do you actually burn them? Because of the like Raba said and the is because next year people are going to say hey I remember eating these without any. So even if they have cross them, they're not going to eat them. But because the problem with was he was basing it on that and had that up yesterday. So he's going to come up with a different mocker because it says so you have to just like you can bring them without any associated carbonas, right? You bring those fruits by themselves. You can also bring the without the and therefore and from that same heish we can also imply so you're allowed to eat them. So rab is saying I really agree with Rabba but not from the same source. Moving over to ton of kids say we alluded to this yesterday that the is the critical moment that the becomeish. Now when we say heish it doesn't mean that they were beforehand. There your makdish the flower the process itself has already but the of the will give it into the nowador let's say you did everything right you did the of the and you did then and everything is right in the world but then the will not get its kadush and as Rashi speaks out it will only remain with its kaducious but let's get more complicated Let's say he did it half right. You did. So then what's the very rebby? We're going have to see what that means. But it seems like it's some sort of a halfway kadusha. You got to do everything right for it to work. And until that point, it's not going to be. So my time to rebi why does rebi say that the is enough without this to imbue the with its kadition even though it's only but it does seem to work and this is by the is no but as you remember from the previous we are comparing the kinds of carbonus that have both and that's going to be the three the carbon that has the 40 loaves and the aisle of the nazir that has the andikin that come along with it. So this PK uses the word which is a carbonita. It sounds like the by the is the ze and that's what's its associated. So too here by shuis the of the will be makdish. That's all she does that there's going to be the kadesh who says it's not going to work unless you have both the you got to do all the actions and processes of this for it to become so how is it only going to work so what is going to do the deed over here and make it that's with the alone without this verb which sounds like all you care about is for different has to at least be physically existent at the time when you're doing the foresh and now this said that if you do the it's sounds like it's not all the way what does he even mean by that it's not totally kadesh it's the way it sounds But kadesh it's totally kadesh 100% but meaning it doesn't have the for the kahan to eat it. So the full kadush is there but you don't have the for the kahan when you don't have the because both and aba are mas you can't eat the bread. So what's the practical between them? Let's say you transfer the kaduca onto money from these. toughest because it has but we have rebi and shim that now according to rava makes a lot of sense whether or not the dim will become according to it's not going to happen because there's but according to that money is bless because according to both and will hold that the have and therefore the money would be nitfas. So what's going to be their navina and for the garit whether or not they'll be and according to revi that gives these at least partial kadush so that would make them puzzle if they're heavy but according to bless there is no kaduca with the only maintain they're not going to be puzzle with the so you did the correctly but you did what's going to be with the you can certainly eat because as you remember from the first mission even though it's still going to be a carbon it's just not going to be but that idea of that's not does that extend all the way to the will they also be or not who is that a shil to according to it's all about that which was done and therefore it's certainly going to be user So why should the fact that this is for the be help for the at all according to so there's no whether you learn like a or how far to take rebad but it's certainly not going to have so what's at all is going according to a new a third let's say left the of the mikd between the and its of Saras and then however now normally you'd always have a regular case of piggle on these. The uniqueness over here is that since you were already created a on these can you still affect the piggle so both of these meaning both hold like and that's why there's like we had said earlier once there's on these things can't affect it anymore and therefore it'll be ineffective in making it into pigle you can affect the piggle on the turning over as we'll back it up from this before but now with that backdrop in mind my what's going to hold do we say that according to this with piggle that according to can make it into pigle even on these have the isbaser in the same way that this pigle can be into pigle so it should be like and in the same way the pigle can theim it can also pass the so in the same way should we extend it even to the so what we're doing now is we're saying according to we're connecting the z of the carbon to the and since hold the will be piggle clearly according to even a pled is to connecting the to the kbassim so in the Same way that's puzzled because it was should also connect the to the and therefore if the are going to be a kasher even with the should be kosher and you should be able to eat them. That's the sad to say maybe according to it would work back to the and that even is connecting to the that's only going to be but not to be of the whole shila is on this assumption that the between is talking about where the were outside through the maybe that's not the case if the are outside for sure the Zika won't help where is the that's when you brought them back in before the that's when there's going to be a mus and what's the name now that it's been brought in but there's because it went out even though now it's back in since the is not the critical thing that's the loaves therefore when I went And now when it comes back in, you're fine. How can you explain the Bryce like this? Then it's all about the says they become which was the case that he was talking about. If you tell me like so pickle made you tell me the didn't make the at all that means everything is going to be totally about but is the alone with even doing this alone is not enough to make it or release it from the buster. But the point is that the Zria alone is not enough to affect the piggle in the first place and therefore how could even suggest that piggle would be enough to allow them to become piggle and therefore it's clear that it's all about the but the simply ends off by saying yeah we slugged up that schlugs up and therefore we're okay with and we do have the option of explaining like the way we did and therefore the shilar is still going to be unanswered fighter. Let's say I lost the can I still finish the process for the buser. In other words, even according to that says that you don't have to have the form, but once you have the zika, we said based on it's going to be game over once you lose those. But however, this carbon maybe you can change the name of it, make it into a regular schlam that doesn't require in the first place in which case then you'll be allowed to eat them. So that's what we're asking. Now that I've lost the can I kind of recalibrate this carbon and be iter says is it possible that you can have something that's not going to be kosher when it's but now somehow it becomes when it's so to say that now you lost these if they were done they would be puzzled but will be kosher it doesn't seem to make sense well there's no precedent for that I can show you a precedent for that if you before you were supposed to before because if you meaning for it will work as a so maybe also here also these should also be okay so let's clarify his surprised reaction you ever find something that is near meaning at one point it was meaning like the the losing of the then it becomes from being its own thing because now you lost the so it can't be the proper sus and now it becomes puzzle for because you now want to make it into say no that doesn't help there's still a precedent for that let's say you bring a pes so it was meaning of and then it was and now it becomes once again kosher because you can make it after the fact okay this is my incredulous reaction at one point it was and it was like these before you lost the because you lost them and now it will not be if you try to bring it to which the gar says I do find a precedent for that where everything you just said is still going to be true but it won't be when you bring it which the gar says really the carbon was always a carbon so now you're not really changing anyway when you have the because it was always aim so you don't really have any kind of precedent from Tida either.