Menachos Daf 108

Okay, Duff Kuf Khes, this is already Wednesday's Duff. And we are picking it up from the two dots on Kuf Zayin Amud Bais towards the bottom as we're going to spend some time now in Maseches Shkalim. So now awesome, we learned in the sixth perek of Shkalim, shisha l'nedava, there were six of these different pushkas for different nedavos. So k'neged mi, what were the six for? And then the Gemara gives us a siman, k'mafsha, which is a little bit tamua, the Rish asks that it doesn't really make sense because it's not really referring to the names of the different amoraim they're speaking, it's the wrong number of them. The sheet that changes the girsa here and if you're into this sort of thing, you can hear an inventive chat from Rebbe Gross how to be miyashuv the siman. So what are the different six nedava boxes for? Amar Chizkiya, k'neged shisha batei avos hakohanim. They were k'neged the six different batei avos. Within the different mishmaros, they were broken into six different batei avos that were switched off working in the Beis Hamikdash. And to avoid fights between them, because some might be more than the others, tiknu lahem chachamim shisha l'zeh im zeh. So because of that potential problem, all the money was divided equally and put into these different shofarois, meaning these different boxes, and each one of these boxes were given to each one of the batei avos respectively. Yachanah amar mitachshanah. Nedava meruba, since there was a lot of nedavos, tiknu lahem shofarois merubos. They just wanted to divide up all the same monies, but they needed to keep the money apart from each other k'dei shelo yis'afshu hamonois. Remember, money in that day, that coinage was based on weight, and if it would corrode and rot, the actual money would be devalued. So you had to separate the money so it shouldn't all be squished up against each other and therefore that's why we had these six different boxes. U'zeiri amar, k'neged par, the egel, ayil, the keves, k'dei v'sayir. We have different monies that go towards different kinds of animals. Because someone who's menadev to bring a shor l'mashal, he would put one maneh into the shor pushka. And when the kohanim would bring korbanos from those kinds of animals, they would use the money in those respective shofarois. The Rebbe heitama katan hevei gadol l'yotzei. And this is going l'shitas Rebbe that we mentioned yesterday and the day before, the Rebbe holds you can't have that b'chol misai maneh kind of an idea. You have to be very specific and use only the money that was designated for it. U'bar Pada amar, k'neged par v'ayil. U'bar Pada amar, the six different boxes were k'neged hapara v'ha'ayil. Specifically by a par olam d'orishah tzeibur or the ayil of a asham eilais or asham gezeilos that were lost. Moving over to Midalafak Kvasim or the Asham Nazir that became tame or the Metzora also that got lost and they needed a place to put the money. That's the Eirim and the Kansa Eirim that are brought on Yom Tiv for a tuma that's b'shagaig and my sorace and the extra, let's say after the money was designated, the price of the animal went down. So now you have extra money. The Bahama which is a reference to the Kalban that's the additional money that was given on top of the Machatzis Hashekel. So that would be the six different boxes, the six different shofarace. Now, why didn't each one like the other one? Because Kulu Kay Chizkiya Amri that they didn't want to have fighting between the Batei Avos because Lantzu Lay Chishinan. After all, the Kohanim are getting things so they shouldn't be so quick to get angry. Because the Kol Chad V'Chad Yuma Kovid, each one has their respective day that they get to work. So you don't need to have separate shofarace for that. Rebbe Yishmael Amri that's about the coins becoming ruined because they're packed together so tightly because they have pusha chishinan. We're not chishin they're going to get ruined. After all, this fast turnover with this money so it's not going to get rotted or corroded inside the Keilim. Kidi Z'eiri Lay Amri that they were designated for the that each that each box was designated for a different kind of animal because Ki Yichida Lay Mukvi, because we don't have to set sign Dafka like Shitas Rebbe that Katna B'heima Gadol Layatza. That's Dafka Yachid K'neged Shitas Rabbanan. And K'var Padan Nami Lay Amri that was done for all these different Ma'aserace and lost Korbanos because Ma'aserace Kul Nami Ma'aserace. All the other boxes that were designated for the Korbanos are also for Ma'aserace so you wouldn't need to have a separate box just for that. And Ma Nami L'skol Mazla. The Ma which is that Kalban that goes along with the Machatzis Hashekel also goes into the general Skolum fund. De Tanya because the Braisa says Lay Kalban Zeh Laych. Where's the Kalban actually go? It's L'skolum De Rebbe Meir. Rebbe Elazar Omer L'nida Va. Now we want to set sign this Mishna Maseches Shkolim like Rebbe Meir and Al Rebbe Elazar. All right. And now another p'shat of these different shofarace. Rebbe Shmuel Omer K'neged Ma'aser Chatas, Ma'aser Asham, Ma'aser Asham Nazir, Ma'aser Asham Metzora, Ma'aser Minchas Chavitin, Ma'aser S'eirei Eifa Shel Kohen Gadol. Which is a reference to the extra money of the Kohen Gadol's Minchas Chavitin of that S'eirei Eifa. That's what we're using the six different boxes for. Rebbe Yishaya Omer K'neged Ma'aser Chatas, Ma'aser Asham, Ma'aser Asham Nazir, Ma'aser Asham Metzora, Ma'aser Kinim, Ma'aser Minchas Chavitin. So Rebbe is maskin to Shmuel that they're used for these meisaris, but he swaps out the minchas kohen gadol with the kainan of these birds. U'Shmuel might tell me omer R' because kainan tonalei Rashi we already included kainan in the first seven which we have been talking about but that's the first part of that mission in Shkalim was already designated for the kainan. The tonalei kainan so how did R' understand the mission itself which the says kainan meisaris kainan that's two different boxes. One was for the actual kainan and one was for the meiser of that kainan. R' Rashi might tell me why didn't he want to say the sefer from the minchas because omer meiser shall shall kainan gadol you don't actually use it you let it rot away. Even though we're not actually talking about the ingredients themselves of the korban we're talking about the money that was done for that but the point is you get rid of it you toss it to the etc. And my call omer what do we mean when we talk about these meisaris? Omer R' said meiser minchas nedava extra from the minchas is considered like the nedava. Meiser shall kainan gadol so in other words R' is coming to explain this is how R' understood the braisa. Rabba omer another part of the braisa afilu meiser kainan gadol omer lachmei yerak you know what doesn't get saved is the meiser of the lachmei because it has to be brought with its lachmei. And therefore the braisa is not necessarily going like R' and this is also similar to another plug to meiser shall kainan gadol R' Elazar omer yerak. All right but in fact the meiser let's ask from the mission in the second perek of Shkalim. Meiser Shkalim if you have extra money from the Shkalim it's going to be omer meiser omer kainan those are meiser and nedava. So my love can't we take from there that the is talking about the meiser shall kainan gadol and therefore that is brought as a nedava which the says loy. You know what the meisaris we're talking about we're talking about the meiser minchas not the minchas kainan gadol and that will be left to be yerak. Omer R' omer command omer meiser shall kainan gadol yerak because the loyosam shemen levana ki chatos hi and omer R' he chatos and keriah chatos meaning only the minchas is called a chatos but not money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct amount of money to be able to buy the correct Torah, or should I give two smaller kesarim, one for each one of the Yotzei Chaim? So, it's the same value of silver, but is it better to bring one big one or two smaller ones? The Margoliyos HaShas quotes this rebbe by saying, "Well, to be fair, it's Rashi in Menachos on Kuf Ches Mem Beis, where Rashi says, "B'chol makom shnayim chashuvim meyuchad, afilu shnayim shavim." So, better to bring two different kesarim on the sefer Torah. This might be related to the Likutei Sichos. The Rebbe Shlita has a long piece in Eis Tes Vav, where he goes through which is better, echos or kamos? Is it better to do many mitzvos or worse to do many aveiros versus the echos of a bigger or worse avera? I didn't say that well, but I think you understand what I mean. Ah, echos versus kamos. Might be related to that idea of the Rambam about giving tzedaka to many more aniyim even in smaller amounts, cuz rov hamayseh is going to be the better way to go. "Prechtige Mar, well, if like Nomi Beracha, why shouldn't Rebbe also argue in the beginning of the Mishnah, which says if you're going to bring one shar and it becomes ba'al mum, you're allowed to bring two?" Rebbe should argue with that, too. To which the Gemara says, "You're right, he does. Rebbe Akiva milse poleg. Binatur l'Rabbanan in the demasqi milse. He only waited till the end. He waited for the Rabbanan to finish talking before. He was going to argue, then v'hadar mifleg alav. That's when he argued. "Tena d'Rebbe bring you a raya that that's the pshat in shitas Rebbe Diktoni." Cuz the Mishnah also says, "Ayil zeh oilah v'nistav, rotzeh yavi d'mov keves." And likewise, "Keves zeh oilah v'nistav, rotzeh yavi d'mov ayil." And likewise, "Keves zeh oilah v'nistav, rotzeh yavi d'mov ayil." Rebbe Yishmael. So, you see that Rebbe is coming to argue at the end on all of these halachos. "Shma mi nafshei. Yiboi lehu a new shaila. Mi mina l'mina mai? What about if you want to swap out that ba'al mum with not just a different value of animal, but another kind of animal?" Like Rashi says, the guy says, "The shar zeh oilah became ba'al mum, can he now bring two ayilim, two different animals?" The Torah Shma bring you a raya from a braisa. "Shar zeh oilah v'nistav, lo yavi d'mov ayil, aval yavi d'mov shnei ayilim." So, you see you have no problem switching animals. You went from a shar to an ayil. "Rebbe Yishmael oif pishain bilah." Rebbe says there's another technical problem, because since these two different kinds of animals are going to require separate menachos, and you can't mix the two together, so that'll be a problem. But "Shma mi nafshei." You see you can swap out the different kind of animal with one from the other. So, "Yachi, if that's the case, mai arya trei?" Why did the Rabbanan only talk about bringing two ayilim, A feel had nami, even if it's one ayil. Because they'll have been a stoic in a case of where it became a balmum. The rabbonim only shone a little bit got a little cotton. The rabbonim don't care about the size of the animal as long as you're bringing the total same value. Which the mar says in the qonomi trait and I believe in rabbonim. But the time of our mishnah doesn't make a difference between the godol and the qoton. Whereas the time of the braisa does. Rebbi oiser shain beila that you have this technical problem of mixing the two minochos. Time of day in beila but it sounds like ayish beila shari. Well that's not going to work. But what's now we learned in our mishnah ayil oilev in a stoic yavi bedam of keves. Keves oilev in a stoic yavi bedam of ayil for Rebbi Oiser. It's not just about the fact that there's no beila. Even if it's all brought in one keili Rebbi's going to answer because it's not exactly what you promised. Which the mar says trait and I believe in Rebbi in the qonomi. U beta chiyurim the braisa continues and says legabe these chiyurim which is another way of saying that there's no mum. Eigel the heavy par for a person brought a par even though he promised an eigel. Or keves the heavy ayil yotza. To which the mar says stomach qorbonim. The mar saying this braisa is going like shitas rabbonim that if you promise a smaller animal you can bring the bigger animal. Then the mishnah said rotzi yavi bedam of shnayim etc. That this particular shar should be a shar ayil and it became a balmum. You could bring two in its replacement. Omar of Menashe bar Svid Omar Rav leshanu ela d'omar shar zeh ayil. The only time you can bring two as a replacement is if you said this shar should be an ayil. Because then you have no chiyuv on the gavra if it became a balmum. Aval Omar shar zeh al ayil. Well then chukva. Then he has to bring dafka one shar. Prakta mar of dam al ayil vehicle Omar. Maybe all he meant to say it should be on me to bring it but not that I'm being mechayev my gavra if something happens to it. So Eliyahu this is what Rebbi Menashe meant. Omar Rebbi Menashe bar Svid Omar Rav leshanu ela d'omar shar zeh ayil. Or enami Omar shar zeh al ayil. Aval Omar shar zeh vidam of ayil then it's going to be chukva. Because at that point you're saying I'm taking a personal responsibility to bring its chiluf of its replacement exactly the same way and not just being mechayev myself to bring a korban. Zok the mishnah Homer echad mikvasai hegdish. One of my shepselach should be hegdish and therefore I got to bring as a korban. Ve'echad mishvorai hegdish or one of my shvorim should be hegdish. O ilu shnayim. He's got two of them. What do you do now? So how do you bring it hegdish? You bring the bigger one because we assume he was punished by the court. And therefore he went to be punished by the court. Let's say he has three. Then he should be punished by the court. Then we go with the middle one. I know I was but I don't remember what I was. Or my father told me that he was punished by the court. But I don't know which one. The law is he should be punished by the court. So the court will punish him by the court. If a person is being punished they're always going to go for the most expensive one. But it doesn't seem to be that way consistently in the Mishnah. He must have been punished by the court. We go with the middle one. If you have more than two. So he was punished by the court. So which one is it? He should be punished by the court. The end of the Mishnah just means you have to be punished by the court. He should be punished by the court. The smaller one the court considered the court. So both the best one and the court considered in that the same court. So now what do I do that I'm the court? The court will punish him by the court. You wait for that middle court to have a court. And now you transfer that on to a larger one. So even if he initially intended the court no problem you take care of it with the bigger one. He was punished by the court. That's only when he says one of my should be punished by the court. One amongst my should be punished by the court. The best one is definitely going to be punished by the court. Because what he's saying is the most one amongst my should be punished by the court. That's what we just assume he means. Is that what it means that the best one amongst my should be punished by the court. He was punished by the court. Someone says I'm going to sell you a house in my estate of houses. So what does he mean? So we apply the law of how much he was punished by the court. And you only get to sell him the house. So that's how we can what he's saying. The court might be the court in the house. Now the reason why you can be punished by the court is because it's the one. So similarly if you're punished by the court amongst my you're also not giving the best one. Interestingly the Gamara is not michalig between mecha and memkar and hegdish. I'm not sure if this is a problem with that Rebbe Chanan that we spoke about the other day. To which the Gamara now answers, "Lo meula shibabatim." What the aliya doesn't mean the crummy attic, it means the best of your homes. And in the chonomi, that is what he means. The meula shibabatim. In the same way, it'll be the meula of my shvarim. Meisvei, the braisa says, "Shar bishvarai hegdish." That one shar amongst my shvarim should become an ola. The chein shar shel hegdish in this arva cheirim also one gets mixed up hegdish. Vekulam yimocher letzarchei olos. And all the rest of them should be sold for olos. V'dmeihen chulin and the money that they are sold for becomes chulin. So, since the other shvarim are sold as an ola, clearly there's a safek whether they're hegdish. So, the chazal is koneged Rava bar Avuha that only the largest and best one is the hegdish one. And the Gamara targuma asher shel hegdish in this arva cheirim. We're not talking about where you made a promise, but rather there was an existing shar of hegdish that got mixed up with other ones. Now, I'm really mesupak. Aivaha, v'chein komer. The braisa says v'chein which sounds like it should be the same by both halachos. To which the Gamara answers, "Targuma agodel." The v'chein is going like the biggest one should be hegdish. Which is like that first part of the psak. And therefore, both parts of the braisa are going to have that part of the psak that the biggest one should be hegdish. The fact that all the other animals are going to be sold as olos is only talking about the case of the shar shel hegdish that became mixed up with other shvarim. All right, we're going to stop here and pick it up from here tomorrow.