Chullin Daf 74

All right, Dafian Dalled and we were discussing yesterday about whether or not miso is orto is neipple which basically means if the animal's aver is hanging on by a thread and it's not really connected to the animal in a normal sense it's just like a dead aver hanging there. So posashus is still part of the animal but if it drops dead we say that kind of traumatic event causes us to refocus and say all right you know now that it died that a medulla really wasn't connected to the animal and the big enough whether or not it's connected to the animal bash miser or not is going to be whether or not it was aai and therefore the ne or if it was baserai and therefore won't be so we're going to pick it up smack in the middle of the om on the giml where had just told us that misa is butita is not so again misa will make it that we look at this a as if it's not connected the animal just drops dead. But if I sh the animal, we don't say it's nele and we say that that a was connected to the animal. So why is telling us this? This is where we were up to yesterday. We said misa tanina and tanina. We know both of these rules that misa is how do I know that? Because the Mishna going to be coming up on Zion says that Mesa if an animal drops dead without a buser that's half off of it that's not just disconnected is going to require a so if you tell me that this kind of buser requires vice it's not nea already cuz if it was noa it would be to so clearly this buser is not considered noa but it's considered like buser that came off of a and it's the animal misa that forces us to look at it as if it had fallen off beforehand that mission And if it's a complete that is hanging on it will have its because the mis is and therefore it's as if it fell off while it was still alive. That's all different mayor. So what do you see that misa and therefore the Abraham is not going to be considered part of its neite. I can also show you that is not going to be and it'll be seen like it's part of the of the larger animal because that same Mishna says there is a animal it's not going to be so what do you see the is not going to for the but rather you need to be on the to so both of in that Mishna so Why does need to tell us this? It's like because what does it mean? It's a buser. It's not talking about the a that's coming off. It's talking about just a piece of buser. In other words, I could argue that according to mayor shita does nele for both the aver and for the buser and therefore the aver would be t just like a min but the buser would not be tame because buser because buser min is actually and therefore you need to come onto a and that's what means when he says that the buser but the a that's would be and therefore we need to tell us that so that the a is going to be unless it's But for the it sounds like it's raim over here. It's talking about the same for both the buser and the a that they're going to be and that they're not considered a and for the maishma. The buser that we're talking about might have actually come off of that a mulus. Sir Mayor might be saying number one that the actual buser from the behem itself and any buser that came from that aver are going to be hook from the dam that happened as a result of the now the garam why would you need to say both my why is the boser that came from the a stronger than the boser that came directly from the animal that you'd have to mention it independently and for the since the bos that came from the aul actually is more because it used to be part of that a which had the inherent of So maybe you don't even need to have the of that dam to be hab and maybe it has its own inherent to come say that even the buster that comes from the audab from the dham of the itself but anyway we now have a reason why had to tell us that the is not going to be and that's why is not going to become unless it has it own you should listen says and Rashi puts in over here also as says the Tyra says that all you can't eat were being that all those cases that all those kinds of that are all going to be to eat because we're saying that that's This dulles moving over to Alfenz that a dulles is actually only going to be just separate yourself from it but it'll actually be mut. So according that the is going to be matera and and therefore it will be more aligned with that according to is not mul but is from it is interesting that if you're telling me it's not but it is there's an interesting whether or not I can give that kind of to a obviously you're not allowed to give to a that's classic but let's say it's not it's only so the says This is going to be mut because it's not but the smack says it is and we have to fear the way and therefore you're not allowed to give it to a guy because it is and therefore there would be like if somebody eats one of these you're going to be a real McCoy don't listen to him Because a is not you're not going to get malus because it's only like we just said well now who do we go like to which didn't like that very much he turned away angrily it was he said to him what's so about these two different things when I said that rav hold that you're going to get malus that's bisa is neiple I'm talking about where that animal that had the mild doll just dropped dead without Omar the other mera that's saying that you're not going to get that's so gonna go like the way we said earlier that which the is talking about over there that there's going to be a tum for the dead sher when it says like obviously they're dead what are you coming from if you're saying that they're not going to when they're still alive. Well, we know that already because we know it have to be a from the extra words of that's the and therefore that's how we know this that is not of what are we even talking about this is a about how can we learn about there's no anyway so this is a classic so since it's not relevant here we'll throw it over to behemoth British we'll make this now we still needed that expression of for something else because we have a mis that the only time a sher is if it's still moist but if it's crunchy and dried up it's not mama which says no problem that expression of is actually twice in the puss so you have one for the moist that's matama and one for the all right getting back to our is from the back in our mishna whether or not the aver that sticks takes out from the mother at the time of whether or not it's going to have to nea. So that is only talking about where the uber is alive. That's when the say that al the mother's it's the of that Uber let's say the limb is sticking out of a dead uber is a nipple that the is going to essentially detach it and therefore it's not going to be met from even according to the will be by both so it's an important what the case of the mission is and the ended off by saying that if it's an eight-month nonviable fetus that you since there's There's it's not going to be so we have a different brace that says if you have a benina that's born will be even other who are not going to have a froma even though there are amongst its men that are so even if you have it should not be and therefore it's in contrast to our Mishna where our Mishna says that A is mish not this bry seems to say it is so what's going on between this and this is actually its mother of our mission doesn't like the idea of calling that just because you could check the mother the al is not shak to live and therefore not shakita okay but according to that tana the braza who does seem to say that's a good tina and therefore now we lost the thread of Muker in our Mishna because now you need to have a Muker that a trafa can have a heet of its toma which the garra says. So this expression of minima sounds like mix. There are some animals that will be mama when they die. Now how are we dividing these two? And which animal is not mut. So you have a mucker from this if you'll be let's say the puts his hand into the mother animal. A regular healthy fetus inside the mother. Sounds pretty uncomfortable for the mother but the here is before it ever came out. So you're shing a ben pakua before the lea ma what's the can you now eat this prenatal shita so tiler of mayor as we're going to say mayor doesn't hold of the holding of ben pakua and a ben pakua does require its own and viter who hold doesn't even require because boiler mayor because mayor ben pakua that's honey because that's when hold it needs a proper because it was born does not need because our boss Simon and Ashar the Tyra requires four sima meaning two for the mother and two for the vlad which is to say that even a ben pakua might have a heterita while inside of its mother either alyade of the mother or alade of the ben pakua itself. So we have a according to both of these days of we can bring a ride from our Mishna because so it never had to make it if you're telling me that the animal developed a turf it never had a shasakure. Now, if you're telling me that you could still while it's inside the mother because as improbable as it is to do a inside the mother's womb, but you can do it and therefore it should have a boy learn the Mishna was talking about that it always had a tarf. It's like a marshall of the animal that was born with five legs. It's not like it developed it slowly the taras and it had a shasakish before that it was never sh and that's what the means it was always a tra never having a proper shasakisher now this could have kicked off her whole per whatever reason or he put this mishna later on animal normally mace and inside you find a nonviable eight-month fetus whether it's kai or it's mace a benta mace or you find a nine-month-old potentially viable fetus that's also dead at that point the mother worked and therefore cyro you can just tear a piece of this uber and eat it without any it's just kosher meaty as do of course first you got to take out the dam because the dam of an uber is user like any dam is but let's say that uber is alive after the mother so now you have a question do I have to sh this animal or not so it's a regular healthy viable birth and therefore all those are going to be relevant mayor the mother's was the uber and therefore it does not require turning over even if this fetus that was found alive after the is now 5 years old and it's plowing in the field the mother's from 5 years ago has it and you could just eat this animal straight away without any marina tells what the shuri other than the shock value of making the case seem stronger. Then the mission ends off. Let's say you didn't the mother. But you just tore open the mother and you find then it for sure needs to have a doesn't have any from the of its own mother. So the whole for this is only other it's considered like a full-fledged animal that requires other. Now what other h we talking about? the and the are certainly going to still be even for what kind of we talking about if we're talking about the of that Uber that was found alive. So why would you think the wouldn't have their here as well and say it's also did the mayor but So according to mayor there is no but according to who is as well there is no and therefore there is no all the are going to follow what was over here about the other meant that according to the of the that must be mut but that's also going to be like because the this. You got to scoop out beyond the gin wherever it finds itself. And you got to take out all the fat around that ginha from the root of it mayashui. You just got to level it off and you can eat whatever's beneath that area of the surface of the ginhosa. But what you see here are arguing about how much of the of the ginosh is everybody's mask meant certainly asser. It's just how much you have to cut away. So can't have meant that we're of the so what did he mean the of the bent is only that is considered a full-fledged normal animal. So what's that coming to the of that animal of living with that animal is going to be as a regular animal. You can't say it's not an animal just because it's a ben pakua or and also there's an iser of karisha of mixing it with another min. So hey Bena can be eaten without you still treat it like a regular animal got these other interesting about can you now be what happens to you is it going to be kind of from the okay now let's talk about according to the mater It's going to be meaning is more than if you tear it open. You got to first take away the dam. Clearly our saying that the dam is going to be meant to say is that there's no isseraris for eating the dam. But of course you're not allowed eat the dam. Even according to Tan who says there's noaris certainly have to be and therefore it's not shishna lean who is lish talking about that there's noaris but even according to there'll still bearis says damatisa the damatamis is only with the So only if there's going to be then there won't be any circu let's say I have a benu and I have a shila about thear with a benu because I have to be p this with an animal and then give it to a kayen. So the question is can I use a Benua for that kind of accord is a full-fledged animal so according to says the of the mother now works to be and not require for the vadu the ben paku is considered like it's meat inside of a pot and therefore it's not really an animal at this point we don't view it that way it's considered like it's already gashen and therefore there's no Or you can use it to redeem this since it's been paku is running around like a healthy little animal. We're going to classify it as a regular animal that you can use for the pad. of the exerva of SEF from carbon pes which will teach us that just like a paka is puzzle to be used for carbon pes so too should be ple for the but if that's the case then you should take it all the way and we don't see those exist for padia like you have by carbon pesa we have a special rei that's going to say that even a se and a gad that you wouldn't be able to bring for carbon pes you can still use in padia so zakashi a ta reeba if you're using the rei of ta ta then I feel Even a benu you should be to which Marz says no you have these conflicting zer so in one way it has to be a diamond to the garpes in one way it's not so that's why he has this shita all right we're going to pause it here and pick it up with more shus we pua for