Chullin Daf 38

All right, daff lid. This is Sunday's daf as we continue to talk about the kautis of a behemis. It's about to die, but as long as you did it before it died, it is kosher even. And now we're picking it up two lines from the bottom of Omar said to these myoms. What did your rebi Rav say about the misuism? We must know what hashita was om they said back to moving over to goya. If the animal makes this noise likely a moo or it relieves itself or it waggles its ear that blas which would indicate the animal was still alive and therefore it's going to be a kashita but said uh it's abuse is it really necessary for aba which is a reference to rav to say that the animal has to move its ear and that would indicate it's alive I mean obviously the animal's alive if it's moving its earrings says It's called anything that's not part of what a dead animal would typically do. Of course, it's going to indicate that it's alive. Now, what does mean what what is something that a dying to dead animal would do that would indicate the so himself told me that if the animal's front leg was bent and it got extended afterwards, that's something that it would do in its death throws and doesn't indicate that it's really alive. But let's say it was already extended and the animal bent it in. That's not normal for a dying dead animal to do that and therefore that would indicate that it's still alive. Well my this is quoting what would that even tell us that we don't know already. Tina we learned in yesterday's mission of the but it sounds like if that extended leg would be bent back that would be considered a simmon that it is alive just like said. So the saying's idea had it only been the amina that the bending is going to be an indication only when it was initially started bent then it was extended then it was bent again but let's say it started off being and then it got bent that may not be an indication and therefore tells us no even if it was already extended to begin with and then it got bent it's still enough to indicate that it is alive okay so this said that are all examples of indicating life. If the animal is mooing during the that does not constitute a toita but even if the animal just relieves itself or it wags its tails that's not enough to be considered a that's not going to be a that it is alive. So now we got cautious because koshya agoya we have now estiraa about whether or not that mooing is going to be considered a pirus and kosher does its relieving of its waste considered a pirus or not. Soya because of when Rav said that it's an indication that it's still alive. It's because it was an with an a strong thick voice which indicates it's alive but a bry says that it's not going to be a for so instead of a moo it's more of a moo and that is not going to count. and rea there is no steer about it going to the bathroom because where it's just dripping it out that's not really considered like any indication of it being alive but resess where it's kind of projectile defecation and it can shoot it out at a distance that is an indication of vitality and it's alive but now the is going to get into a very important about at what point in the process does the riot anything this jerking around that the animal's doing it's that riot that is still alive. That's at the end of the now. What does that even mean? So there it means during the middle of it. So why do we call the light? We just mean it shouldn't be the very beginning where it's too early. That wouldn't be a ride that the animal survived the and the is what killed it, but rather you have to wait until at least the middle. You don't have to actually wait till the end of the but like he said as long as it's not the beginning of the will be a how do I know? Because our Mishna said so this behem that was pushed at and didn't bring it back that's not considered now Amos when did that happen at the end what do you want for this poor animal you want to live forever I mean it's already been for crying out loud so it can't be that we're talking about the very end of the we're talking about the middle of the ridden like this because he told maybe it is the end so why is it not considered a proper when it extends out its any animal that does this and doesn't retract it at the end of the I know for a fact that it died before the end of the so that's the point here if it's at the end then I can know for a fact that it is kosher but if it doesn't do this I know for sure it was dead already it's a very interesting lotion the garamar seems to be so sure of the mitsus that this animal's vadai dead even before the shita was complete this is reminiscent of the first rashi on the mission that we saw in yesterday's dav there was kiml to the raon that the animals be dead already and that's takas that if the animal's not it's not a sophake you get malus for eating such a noa it's kind of a kashita because like how do you know but that's how you know it is considered a dead noa we're talking about the beginning that is the that's going to be because tonight we learned in our if you an animal at night when you can't see if it was mafaras or not. And in the morning you find that the walls are full of dam and the way Rashi learns is that the walls are not talking about the walls of your house. They're talking about the walls of the basita on the animal's neck. And therefore it's an indication that the blood was splurging. It's going to be because the animal was certainly spurting the dam which is a d of said about this that we're talking about the walls of the shop. If you're going to say that the piras is even at the beginning of the process. So then I understand because it doesn't matter when that splurging blood of the zinc takes place even if it's at the very beginning that will be mat the animal but if you're the has to be at the end of the well you don't know when the zina happened maybe it only happened in the beginning and that's not going to be enough to prove that the animal's still alive and from the very fact that doesn't seem to care must be that the is going to be good enough even if it's only at the interesting I saw kasha over shabas about the balo where you can't see the cipher wants to know well whatever happened to the why can't we just assume that this animal was alive until you finish the to whicher says because there's also inv which tells you the animal's not kosher and couple that with the fact that you're actively trying to kill it you no longer have the kind of an interesting take on the here but anyway maybe when we're talking about zen that's different than the other kinds of because we just kind of equated all the but maybe this one's different maybe zen is more a riot to its life than other kinds of and therefore the zen works even in the beginning of the fact you're telling me that the zen is even better it doesn't sound that way from the lion of our mission is if it just does the zinka which sounds like it's less of a thing than the other kinds of says the zinc is less of a of its life than the things required by because according to you have to move both the y and the regel But it's better than the rabbon that only require one movement of the yad in order to show its pas. So the zither could go between soil actually abu. So ra said that sabar koi said to me that the father of abu had a kasha on this abu. Some say it was the brother of barram who asked this kasha. You're telling me that the zinc is a bigger riot to its life more than the raon of retracting that yad the fourleg of the animal we learned in ourel and who were the raon talking to meaning who are they addressing when they said that who said the animal requires both the yad and the regal to indicate it's well they should have said that once it does either of these kinds of movements it'll be kosher Elita rebelzar it must be the raon are responding to rebelar who was talking about zinca so what's the ad which sounds like that their is more so what do you see therezar's zina is actually more than the otheras of the extension of the yad and the regal from the okay so now a third of when the piras has to take place it's at the end of the so the pas has to be existing even when the end of the is taking place because the braces says shard turning over to MBim. These kinds of animals which are kim a crossbreed is user to be brought as misb a a or a goat prleidma or media when an animal is born that doesn't look like its parents which is a form of a mum according to the raam when it's born asen if it's born through cesarian section that's also going to be a sulfur a carbon when we say an animal can't be aim you're telling me that the mother gave birth and then the mother died. So what the fact it's like an orphan animal, the mother has to live on forever for every carbon to be brought. That can't be possible. Of course, the mother can die and still have the blood for a carbon must be talking about where the mother died and then gave birth alian section which took the baby out of a dead mother. But that can't be because that would be from the fact that it's that you just can't take an animal out with a cesarian section in the first place forgetting about the fact that the mother might be dead. must be we're talking about the child birth of this vot happened at the same time when the mother died. So that's the case of that the is not going to work. Now if you're telling me that the is requiring at the moment of the okay that's why I would need a quote unquote animal if you don't need it at the very end of the process. Why would I need a puskbay at the kimka which is already an animal through a cesarian section? So it must be talking about whenever there's a requirement of it has to be present at the very end of that thing and at that moment. So in the case of also there has to be the piras at the completion of theita of this dying animal not earlier on in the process. Interesting typhus over here where tyus says when the case is that the mother died at the same time when the flood was alive it sounds like there should be a riot to the sh of euream whether it's be shayim or not. And if you look at the Tesa Damasc Ella, Tyus says it's not going to be a ria that because we might be talking about a case where came and said that this happened at the same time. So it's not a for us. This is just a case int of when we knew for a fact they happened at the same time the is like the following is going to be it's not considered that's if it moved its hind leg whether it extended it but didn't pull it back or those will both beaka with a small animal like a sheep or a goata but like a big cow or an ox bane biad Bane Bereal Bane Posh Kufafa Bane Kufa Posha Kisher and V. When it comes to birds riffrafe elap even if it only fluttered its wing which is even less than the kishkish or it only wagged its tail that's all going to be okay to be the bird. So what's telling us we learned all these things in the says which is so what is he telling us more than we already knew to which the gar says you're right we knew all those but giving us this to tell us about the bird delight because the birds are not included in our Mishna z the doesn't mean you're doing you're doing for a guy asked you to for him and now you want to eat some of this food that you on behalf of a guy. Now I'll tell you why it's pleid for the only one part of the animal meaning the whole animal is really for the and only a little bit is being withheld for himself still doesn't matter. Since the guy has a to at least part of this animal and we have to be the guy has his own that's enough to the becomes to defend the of the to say it is because can really make problems right you got etc only the one who's actually performing the meaning the he's the only one that can make a difference the b don't matter what they're thinking So like in this kind of case where it's all and shouldn't even matter. We should only look at the we don't care the fact that the guy might be having his thoughts. What does hold because the price says I hold that the bum of a carbon can make it into pigle with their means. Forget the fact that the kayen can make it into the bum can make it into pigle. Tanakama our Tanakama holds if we heard the guy say that he wants the animal to be brought for then in the will be puzzle but if we didn't hear him express this then is not going to be puzzle and we're not going to assume that he was unless we knew for a fact but if we didn't hear him say that he wants to it's going to be possible because And to that came to say that alpha even if we heard the guy say that he wants the animal to be for but still and we don't say that the person who's the can impact the over here is the yid doing the and the guy is not relevant. It's just his makovs don't affect this tana that we just brought that holds that bum kamaglin. This is the source of rebel's famous question that he wrote a whole safer to answer. I'm referring to the gavorasim where he asks the kasha that how do you ever have a bin the woman who is the bum can always have a machevas piggle and therefore it'll be an ineffective carbon to be a proper test to see if she was misan because once she's mafagago the minita will no longer work and what's the whole point of the test and to that rabbis has 80 different terutim one of those terutim is that verbi only says his den about a schlamim and not something that's not eaten and rabbi gross pointed out that over here our rashi is meduick like that terret because we're talking about the of the carbon can be messed up according to and that's only by and therefore it wouldn't be but for the other 79 to roots you could check out fangle safer and we'll pick it up from here by the Maro.