Chullin Daf 21

All right, daf kuf alef. This is Thursday's daf. And yesterday, as I was hurriedly trying to get through the daf before the flight attendant made me turn off because they were taking off, we were talking about the shita of Z'eiri. Z'eiri, on the second wide line of kuf amud bet, said a rule that nishbera mafrekhes mar'eh basar eima, that if an animal has the back neck bone, I guess that's the top of the spine, if it breaks with most of the skin and basar with it, then it's considered like an aveila. It's like a dead animal walking. Or maybe it's not walking at this point. But the point is it's an aveila, and even if you do a shita afterwards, it won't take away from its tuma. It is going to be tamei. And I don't know if this is the place to mention it or really many other places throughout meseches chulin, the relationship between shitas treifa and aveila. We know that if you shecht an animal and it turns out to be a treifa, it's not going to have tumas aveila. There So there is a Reb Chaim, apparently Reb Chaim had said this over as his own barmitzvah shuckle, that there is a much closer relationship between treifa and aveila as one might think, that the shita of a treifa is matir achila klappei the aveilakite, if that makes any sense. In other words, they really are fundamentally the same issur, but the shita of the treifa actually addresses its aveilaness, and not that it's a completely separate category. I am sure we're going to talk more about this. Going to mention it so I can sound impressive and pretend to know what I'm talking about. Okay, anyway, Z'eiri says this rule, that if the animal has this mafrekhes mar'eh basar eima, it's going to be an aveila. So the Gemara had kashas from melika and was doicheh them, and now we're going to pick it up six lines from the bottom of the amud where it says Amar Rava, "E kashali, if I would have a kasha from this psak of Z'eiri, hu kashali, this would be the kasha. D'cheima samid umayleik, this animal that Z'eiri is talking about, that has the broken neck and missing basar, if that is considered a meisa because it has a din of an aveila, how are you going to be able to do melika to it? I made umayleik? Because as we know, what is melika? Melika is cutting from the back of the neck of the bird. But then the bird is already dead. It's an aveila. How do you do melika on a dead bird? Amar lei Bayei back to Rava, "If that's going to be your kasha, ve'tikshi loch oilas ha'oyif d'boishnei simanim." Let's talk about an oilas ha'oyif that requires both simanim to be cut. That's unique cuz other birds only need one siman to be cut. But an oila if needs both. Now, the bird is dead after one of the simanim is cut. So, when you come to cut the second one of the simanim, the mesa or maydo meylech, like you rubber that you have such a kasha about melika, you should also have a kasha about klal that every time you're doing the melika on the oila if, you're always doing a quote unquote shchita / melika on a dead bird. On my lays up rubber back to a buyer hasam daylo kayam mitzvas of dollar. Now, the reason why you're cutting the second siman is not to kill the bird. It's to be mikayem the mitzvah to separate the head of the oila if from the body. As you remember from the svachim, that's what you got to do for an oila if. We separate the head. We said that interesting shot. I think it was from the shame of shmuel about how a carbon oila is machapa for machshava, and therefore we separate the head from the body. Frekting amari achi ironami, if you're telling me it's the mitzvah to separate the oila's head from its body, then you should also have to separate even the or, the skin from its neck because you got to take the whole head off. And we don't have such a halacha. To which rubber responds, kol akiv bishchita akiv bahavdola. If you need it for shchita, then you need it for the mitzvah to separate the head from the body. Vochosheina akiv bishchita in akiv bahavdola. And since there's no ikuv in cutting the skin to create a shchita, lou yitzuri you can do it without cutting the skin, then there's going to be no to remove the or to be mikayem that mitzvah. Frek a buyer meets simanim lerabonan. What about if you're only cutting the meat of the simanim according to shitas rabonan deloy akiv bishchita. That's not akiv in the shchita. But uma akiv bahavdola. So, you see that even something that's not an ikuv for the shchita is still considered an ikuv for this havdola mitzvah. So, therefore the same thing with the or, you should need to do it to be mikayem the havdola. So, ale em let's say it slightly differently. Kol she yeshnu bishchita yeshnu bahavdola. Whatever you need for shchita, you'll also need for havdola. Um, kol she enu bishchita enu bahavdola. And therefore since the skin is not needed for the shchita, it doesn't need to be done for the mitzvah of havdola. But the simanim, since they have to be cut for shchita, even if it's only a meat of the simanim, they must be cut in their entirety to be mikayem the mitzvah of the havdola. Moving over to amud alef, mikol makam kasha. Still, at the end of the day it's still zayris halacha that the broken neck and missing buser is going to be a nevela. You still got a kasha, how are you doing melika on a dead bird? As soon as you push your thumbnail through the bone and flesh at the back of this bird's neck, it's essentially a nevela before you're mikayan your melika. Amar Rava, eima v'chayn hu aisa. This is how you should say you do melika. Chaitich shidra u'mafrekes b'lo rov buser. Cut that shidra, the spinal cord, and u'mafrekes and break the bone, but don't cut the buser. Because the ear was very careful by saying it's the mafrekes and rov buser. And ki silik Rav Zeira, when Rav Zeira went to Eretz Yisrael, ashkechilahu Rav Ami de Yosef u'komar lo mai tzei. He was saying over this member from the ear that's going to be a nevela. Amar lei Rav Zeira asked Rav Ami, v'chayn maisa u'meilech. The same kasha, can you do melika on a dead bird? Ishtaimin kasha chada. So Rav Ami was pausing and quiet for a moment. Amar lei Rav Zeira said, eima kachu aisa. I'll say this is how you do melika. Chaitich shidra u'mafrekes b'lo rov buser. The same way, don't cut through all the meat, but cut through the simanim. And by the way, this is tough to do. But the kohen is going to push his fingernail through the back of the bird's neck, not cutting through all of the buser, but he presses until one of these two simanim or both simanim by the case of the ayeles ha'ayef, until he's able to cut those simanim. And only then do you cut the buser in the back of the neck. So if it sounds hard, yeah, chazal say melika is one of the hardest avodas to do. Tanya, Rav Nachman Ketzav Melkin Chatzot. So if how does one do melika on a chatzot, ayef? You chaitich shidra u'mafrekes b'lo rov buser. You'd cut the back of the neck without the rov buser. So we're avoiding the Zeira problem. Ad she magi'a l'veishas ha'ayelah konah, until you get to one of the two simanim. He gi'a l'veishas ha'ayelah konah, chaitich siman echad o rov bo. You cut one or rov of it, the rov buser imai, together with most of the buser on that area. U'vo'eila and by an ayeles ha'ayef, shnayim o rov shnayim, because you got to do both of the two simanim. But now we have an issue because that lashon of bo'eila shnayim o rov shnayim, practically we're money, who is the tana of the braisa? Eima Rabbanan. If it's shitas Rabbanan, who has a machlokes with Rav Elozar Rav Shimon, whether or not you have to cut all of the simanim or maybe just rov of the simanim. But if you're saying it's shitas Rabbanan, o rov shnayim dafka, it sounds like you have to cut Simanim, not just rave of them. And we will never have shiman, who am I to rave shiman? He says you only cut rave of them. But, I say here I will not rave shiman, sounding like you have an option. So, it's not going to work like either of these look to Gamora and shiman and rave shiman will never have shiman. Not a problem. Basically, the braces covering its bases. It'll either go like the Rabbonan that you have to cut both or like the shiman that you not allowed to cut both. Or if you buy a shiman have a horrible shiman. My shiman when the braces says you cut the whole of the two Simanim that means you diamond shiman. It means you cut both in such a way that it looks like they've been cut in their entirety. Cuz according to shiman, you should cut so much of the rave that it looks like you're cutting through all of it. Even though you're technically still only cutting rave. I'm going to be here tomorrow and shiman will never have a rave buster like that case of the area. But, now this member is about a person. If a person had their neck broken together with most of the buster around that area or by that area my time That person is considered how logically dead that even if they are flailing about it wouldn't matter. They're my time of oil. The entire you're going to ask you say my what about God who actually had such a when he heard that the iron was captured, he fell off his chair, broke his neck and died. And the says he showed her because he broke his neck he died. So, I like he died right away even though it wasn't the rave buster gone. It was just the neck itself. So, from the fact of the my boy rave buster have a you don't need to have the missing rave buster which the Gamora says no, he was an old man and shiny. Old guys that break their necks are going to be dead. He was an old once this told that the iron was taken. He fell backwards off his chair by the that he showed her a fracture of the he's looking because he's old. So, the is almost telling you that it's because he's so old that the neck breaking was enough to kill him. I'm going to be here call the dog. If a person Alana cut like a fish meaning the entire length of his body. Also, he is so dead in the time of oil. But I'm already small by itself when we say he's cut all the way down like a fish, that's me guy by when he's cut from the back. If there's an opening along the entire length of the back of his body, that is dead man walking. I don't think he's walking anymore, but he's dead. Almost small also gets to raw. If an animal is split into two, it's called a navela. Almost a little laser need to hire a while I was a little bit if the thigh of an animal is taken out and the cavity is open and visible. Maybe it's taking out the femur. I'm not sure, but if you're taking out that area of that Yarik, it's a navela. Now hey, he done me a little what does it mean that you can see that empty cavity where it was? I'm a rubber culture of the nearest if the animal would crouch down and would be seen to be missing that limb cuz typically when an animal crouches down you can't see its legs. But if that cavity where it was taken from is nicker even when the animal's crouching down vice toys the whole limb was removed in which case the animal will have a dinner of an available be to me even if it looks to us like it's still alive cuz it ain't. It's not awesome. The mission says in the first paragraph of my allies. Who does you ration? Let's say you have these shrotzim where their heads were cut off. Alpha piece of a fire house in even though they're still flailing about or moving around somehow to man. They are a dead sharot. Keys on of a total of a fire house in like a lizard's tail which will jerk around even after it's been separated from the lizard's body. So my house to when it says that their heads were cut off, what does that actually mean? Which look at my house to Amish. You cut off the whole head meaning the same one I'm going to completely severed. But Ruby Aussie on my Ruby money, it's covered all this I lost a life. He doesn't mean completely severed. It's in the same way by an Alyssa that you have to have a separation which doesn't technically mean it's completely severed. It means most of it's been severed like the way of Elizabeth says by Alyssa that's the have dollars that we're talking about. I'm only Ruby Amelia Ruby Aussie. What do you mean? Have dollars Alyssa Ruby Bonin which is severing both seem on them the way pal beside and therefore you and Ruby are not arguing. I don't know how dollars Alyssa Ruby Ruby Shimon that only means Ruby of the same one of them Ruby beside and therefore you are arguing sir Ruby Aussie says vector of dollars of Shimon is only and we talk some say the following way Ruby Shimon Omar if the heads were actually cut off meaning both of the were completely severed Ruby Omar Ruby money can have dollars Shimon which means Ruby most of the two now we've been mentioning this already a couple of times this between and Ruby Shimon so now it's actually go to the source of that like this my opponent Ruby Shimon they say because the price is the same over Mishpat the Torah says that for that bird you should make it like an come Mishpat and for the rest of today's we're going to discuss what does it mean come Mishpat according to the Mishpat come Mishpat Behima it must mean according to the way you do a by an animal is the same thing that we're talking about the for the now this is specifically talking about the birds that are brought by a over the year right which is being done the wealthy person's Behima so we're being between the and and the Behima's so I'm assuming that the Mishpat is talking about the Behima is talking about the Behima is talking about the so you have that you should be bringing it close to the which is talking about the a person is bringing so the Torah is making this just bring it specifically referring to that so the Torah is telling us that the of Malika for the cannot be learned from the Malika of a when the Torah is talking about the carbon over the year that the has to be Mishpat it can't be talking about the so the Mishpat come Mishpat came Mishpat Behima so therefore we're learning should be like a Behima's and therefore we're going to learn the following three number one Behima turning over the base over the year you have to bring it during the day those three of and over the year but that rule is not going to be completely across the board. In Malachi river just like by the case of a behemoth that if you do of the two that's all you need to do for its after so too by the you only need to cut through of it. Tom the terrorists buying that you do and that you're the terrorists comparing the of the to the my her but that the the head by itself and the body is by itself Malachi her but so right it has to be completely severed off the top of the head both to be completely cut. But that's number one of but another but when the terror talks about the it's talking about just like the that my me just like the of the is done from the back of the neck of but it doesn't go across the board. In Malachi just like by Malachi you only do one of the because by the the you're not allowed to cut so I've Malachi Malachi so too by the when you do Malachi one of those two should not be separated. Tom and Larry therefore the terror says there has to be which is unique to it that we treat it the differently than the and therefore that is only going to be by the and not by the that is number two of the third is which we've been saying until now but but the Malachi the Malachi moving over to is that you squish the down when he holds the and meaning after the Malachi you squish the down out onto the Misbah I've is so too by the if you have that of being of doing the when you're holding the and the of the bird. And my Malachi Malachi So, just like by the case of the oil your mazel while the head is still technically attached to the body. It's not severed completely. So, so too by the oil when the dam is done, the head is still attached to the body. Now, that you might think also by the oil that it has to be remain connected to the body. That's not the case. Tom and the uniqueness of the oil that you will actually cut of both semen. That there is the difference between the of the oil and the oil. And we're going to continue in this discussion on tomorrow's death.