Chullin Daf 20

All right, daf chof, this is Wednesday's daf, and I'm going to try to get through this daf even though I just boarded my flight. We'll do the best we can. So, we learned yesterday the Mishnah about the chilukim between shchita and melika. Now, we're picking it up four lines from the bottom of Yud Tes Amud Beis. Amri Benei Rebbe Chiya, mitzvas melika, the mitzvah melika, it's interesting to note that we call mitzvas melika. Shchita itself is kind of a shaila if it's a mitzvah or a mater. Could be that melika, no matter what you say by shchita, will still be considered a mitzvah, part of the process of the korban. Akum panim mitzvas melika machzir simanim l'achorei ha'oref umaylich. It's not the chat you just do a slice from the back of the neck. First, you move the simanim to the back of the neck, and then you do the melika on those simanim. That way, when you are actually severing the simanim, you're not doing the neck bone also, you're just doing the simanim. Ikka de'amri, af machzir. Not that you have to, but you also can do it. Ikka de'amri, and some say machzir dafka, that takka machzir, that you have to actually move those simanim to the back. Umistabra, so like the Gemara, kamadam amri af machzir, that it also works when you move the simanim back. Mimai? K'may de'ittani from the fact that our Mishnah says, "A shochet min ha'oref, shchita seifula." If you do the shchita from the oref, that's the nape, the back of the neck, the shchita is going to be pasul. A regular shchita that's done from the back of the neck is no good. However, "Hamaylich min ha'oref, melika kasheira." If you do melika from the back, then the melika will be good. That's what the Mishnah said. Moving over to Amud Aleph. "Navi salka dafka machzir dafka." If you're telling me that the melika can only be done if you move the simanim to the behind, the bones behind the spine, so my reiya maylich, why should the Mishnah say that melika has to be done, but not the shchita? "Afilu shochet nami, even the shchita from the back, if the simanim are there, are also going to be no good." In other words, it's not about the simanim, it's about the direction of the shchita. "So, al lo af simanim, af machzir." We must listen what the lay out there. Our Mishnah is talking about a case where we didn't move them back, and therefore, the only issue is from the front or from the back, and not about the simanim. Amri Rebbe Yanai, "Yikablu ha'orev in the tzuvasan." It's like a lashon of bracha, that the kindelach, the raven, which is a lashon from the first Mishnah in Maseches Tamid, talking about young people, maybe the young people accept for the tzuva, diktani, because the mishna says nimtza kasher bishchita pasul bimalika. That which is kasher bishchita we said in our mishna is not going to be kasher for malika, and kasher bimalika likewise is pasul bishchita. So may you say my, that kind of loshon sounds like you're coming lafuqei something specific. What are you coming to be memayet? Lav l'meyutei machshir simanim l'chulyah ayin? Maybe we're being memayet a case where you move the simanim to the back of the neck diloy that the malika won't be kasher, and that you're not mechuyav to move the simanim back k'neged b'nei refiyah shchita? So Amar Rabbah bar Rav Chana, l'meyutei shein d'tzifaren. It's talking about using the wrong kind of tool for the shchita, meaning a shein, a tooth, or a tzifaren, our fingernail. Now, even though the mashma'us here sounds like that, if the mishna was talking about the psul of shchita by a tooth, it would sound like the malika would be kasher with a tooth, which is not the case. So it just means that the fingernail is no good for shchita, but only good for malika. Practicing a marsha and a tzifaren b'yadika ktani l'hu that wouldn't be a chiddush. The mishna told us b'feirus that a shein and a tzifaren are pasul for shchita. Ela Amar Rebbi Yirmiyah, l'meyutei maylech umayvi. We're talking about the process. Malika is not done by going back and forth like shchita's done. It's only one direction. Okay, but that's not so pushit. Hanicha l'man d'amar maylech umayvi b'malika pasul. Ela l'man d'amar kasher, what are you going to say to the man d'amar old malika is kasher with maylech umayvi? May ikal mayma? Except b'nei refiyah sayver like a man d'amar maylech umayvi b'malika pasul in a chanam. B'nei refiyah only hold that maylech umayvi by a malika will be pasul. Amar Rav Kahana, mitzvas malika kaitz u've'er. There's that loshon mitzvah again. The mitzvah of malika is that you have to actually kaitz, meaning you puncture the flesh of the bird, ve'er, and you go straight down. No back and forth motion. As long as you're cutting both simanim of the kav and the veshet, zu hi mitzvah zu. So for Rebbi Avin l'meymar kaitz u've'er din, it's dafka if you go straight down that's when it's going to be a kasher malika. But it sounds like maylech umayvi loy that if you are going to go back and forth with your nail, that's going to be a pasul malika. Amar Rebbi Yirmiyah, kol shekein d'maylech umayvi b'malika kasher. What do you mean? You're doing more. I would argue that since malika is b'etzem really a form of shchita, the halachos should be the same. So therefore the malika that's done in the way of shchita, meaning with a maylech umayvi, should be better. U'mai? So what did Rav Kahana mean when he said zu hi mitzvah so it sounds like only this is the proper malacha for malacha and anything else like going to be malacha maybe is not proper for malacha. If you go back and forth like you do by schita it would also be okay for malacha. Any location on the whole throat is okay for schita and then the opposite side of the animal meaning on the back of the neck will be kosher for the malacha when you do malacha. Wherever that location is for schita in the front kosher on the back for malacha. Okay but then mashma this is not going to work because possible schita anything that's possible for schita is going to be possible malacha. But let me tell you he let me tell you eker siman if you're going to say that would be mamaya to malacha of a bird that has eker siman it means the pipes are torn out. The siman are already ripped out. What are they running by so that any eker siman by if it's not true there is no halacha of concern of eker when it comes to birds. Birds have different qualifications. So papa let me tell you the mute of where you can't do malacha is going to be the back of the head as opposed to the back of the neck. Right I think you think he means maybe mamaya to the back of the head maybe our poem of a rasha so I know you can't use the back of the head for malacha. So my rasha sheeply rasha it means that slope that angle of the head where the back of the head begins to go down towards the neck I might think that would be okay no that's where it's going to be possible. And we mean to say a case that knock out sheeply rasha where he started the malacha from that angle which is above the height of where you're allowed to do malacha. Hey Grim and then he cut it in an angle he also had them to cut it till he got down there to the kosher area. If you cut Hey Grim shlish if you cut a third beyond where you're supposed to the shacha chain in the shlish then you do two more thirds that are going to be in the kosher area still sula the schita is possible. Which we learned about yesterday and we're saying that just like the schita would be possible if you do it in this kind of a way so too is the malacha. I'm going to say that the rabble of ravashi had to tell me by any eker siman by if there is no issue of eker when it comes to birds lay on the lamanda in schita life in a terror that whole idea there's no eker that's because there's no schita by when it comes to the The thing is not the day racer. Turning over to my base of lemon and yesha sweet life but you hold the real minute here when it comes to birds also then you the same vehicle will also apply. I have the rubber if it's not the lemon sweet life minute here if you say that there is a when it comes to birds minute here then you can remember the Murray day maker. Now I can say that the is that the of equal does not apply to the bird. And even according to those who say that for is learned because of a dim into from the same vehicle is not the way for equal element number two life minute here that it's all new partial because it's the rubber it's not the right at all element of from some how do they know it from which they are a racer should we have a model to give us a for birds made the hammer that's the only source we have and therefore which would even still to equal to a hammer and a vein of Robin how do you turn your physical similar there is no equal by birds that's only in the regards to Malika there's no equal have a sweeter when you come to share the bird about the equal I practice with the question of connect the question of Malika any place on the throat that's fit for connect it in the back of the neck is going to cut your Malika but it sounds like from that also wherever on the front of the throat is not going to cut your the same on the back will not be cut your from Malika and therefore any neck where there's an equal which is not going to cut your also be cut your from Malika look [music] at the how who play that the same is going to be a point of with Robin almost finished with the bus let's say the neck bone got broken together with most of the bus and it's an available it's not just a it's not available I'm going to have a minute in the Malika improperly obviously that the bird is going to be just like the tre if you were to tell me that it would be considered tre so Malika says it's also therefore it wouldn't give you the Thomas base of Leah. So to honey suck in the tower so since the with a knife should be effective to make it not in the veil of but the price it tells us that this bird is going to be in the veil of so must be we need to understand that before the took place this bird already had a dinner in the veil of and the stomach is because the knife first broke the bone and therefore tomorrow you didn't need to hear it tell me the this animal is in the veil of that's the question the is asking so I'll tell you what the is the ear is because because I already assumed that the love he love the bird is coming because the is not called a and therefore even if it's done with a knife it's going to be considered an avail. I might have thought without that an animal whose neck is broken is only a treifa and the reason why the said that this bird is going to be is because even after it's in a normal way of meaning the with a knife that's not called a so the ear is telling me that an animal with a totally broken neck is lives in the veil of and why is the with a not considered a my time of because if you you because the pushes the knife underneath the neck bone burrow is like a when you burrow the knife underneath so a cut from the back of the neck just like encounters the neck bone before getting to the of the so when the neck bone is cut the severed parts don't separate but basically stay in place therefore after going through that neck bone the knife is being it's burrowing underneath it can I get a regular as opposed to a regular which is from the front in which case the neck wound separates the as it goes through but the ear is because presses the knife downward and doesn't do a sliding motion from side to side my ear is because meaning my time of the ear is because the ear is because the ear is and therefore you don't need to have the press straight down my ear is because the ear is meaning my time of the ear is because the ear is because you're burrowing underneath all my ear is because the ear is because the ear is how you defining this as what's the meaning of the ear is because the ear is the the ear is is only considered to be being khaila when it's burrowing when it's like that weasel that lives under the house which is completely concealed. However, haha, homa galia, the knife is very much exposed and therefore it's not going to be a real khala da. Because it doesn't look like khala da. All right, we're going to call it here and we're going to pick up with Amur Rova on tomorrow's daf.