Chullin Daf 16

All right, daf tessa zion. This is shabbos is daf. Yesterday we were making the hillik in shittas rebbe about muchuber me'ikarai which would be a problem for our knife to shecht with versus tolesh al b'saif chiburei that b'dieved would be okay. So frick the gemara. Picking this up six lines from the bottom of tessa vov amud beis. U'mina timer d'shani lan bein muchuber me'ikarai l'tolesh al b'saif chiburei. That hillik, who says it exists? De tanya, I'll show you from the braisa. Hasheichei b'muchni shchitas k'sheira. If you shecht with a muchni, what is a muchni? It's a wheel or some kind of contraption. So the muchni itself moves the knife rather than you holding the knife. It's still kasher shchita. And b'muchni l'karchei shchitas k'sheira. And now suckin b'kaisal b'shachav al. Let's say you have the knife sticking out of the wall and you shecht with it. How do you do that? Well, you don't move the knife because the knife is permanently connected to the wall, but you move the animal's neck. Also k'sheira. Haya tzuri yotzei min hakaisal. Let's say there's a sharp piece of rock sticking out of the wall. O kana o ila me'eilav v'shachav al bayis shchitas p'sula. So in this case it's when there's something sticking out of the wall, those are going to passul the shchita. Moving over to also kashya na dodi. The braisa first says that if it's muchuber it's kasher. Then it says if this is rock or a kana that's sticking out of the wall it's not going to be kasher. Ela shma mina shani bein muchuber me'ikarai l'tolesh al b'saif chiburei shma mina. You see that such a hillik can exist between something that is initially muchuber or something that was tolesh and then you were muchuber afterwards. So when the braisa first says that the dover muchuber is going to be kasher, that's talking b'dieved and that's what we're going to say is like shittas rebbe. When it's not going to be kasher, it's because that sharpened rock that's sticking out of the wall was always part of the wall. It's chiburei me'ikarai. Sachta gemara omer mar hasheichei b'muchni shchitas k'sheira. If you shecht with this contraption, like a wheel, it's going to be a kasher shchita. Ay, but what about the shchitas p'sula? So you got to steer in different braisas. Like kasher habisarnei d'pachra habisarnei d'maya. Two different kinds of contraptions. You have the contraption of a wheel of a potter who's manually moving the wheel. So there's a step removed, but l'maisa it's your koach gavra if you want to say it that way. But the second braisa that says it's passul is talking about a sarna d'maya which is a wheel that's moved by the water. It's old fashioned hydraulics and there's less human input cuz it's the water that's pushing the wheel and not the actual water. That's why it'll be possible. Both of them are talking about the hydraulic waterwheel. How many steps is it? Did you open up the portal to let the water in, which would turn the wheel, which would cut the knife, or was the water already there? You just allowed it to work. So, that's going to be between and now the is going to give us other examples of this application. Omar of Papa Heim and the guy ties up his And by keeping him stuck there, he allows the water to go over him and drown him. This murderer is going to be my time because he did who the honey bee. This was his my son. The guy his arrows that worked against this poor man. But that's the honey bee. There's more of a causality to the kinds of things he's doing. He puts them in one place and then the problematic thing then comes. That's going to be a lot of different kinds of things that you can't do with something that's still connected to the ground. Who says? Give me a marker. So, the guy brings the water and you may remember this when you do the cutting. So, we learned back in the last time that the knife can't be connected to the ground. But here we're saying it even for real. Now, how do you see from this water that it was not connected to the ground? It says it's the motion of the cutting. The guy asks, "Really? You can't have a cutting that's connected to the ground?" The guy actually goes so far as to say it's not the right water we're bringing. It's actually the next one that they can't leave if it's connected to the ground. The guy is over here standing and he's asking, "How in the world are we learning a lot of things from this kind of thing? We're just removing the thing that is being removed from the person." All those kinds of weighty things. All right. You also have to worry about the whole thing. The guy up in the sun, he dies. It doesn't have to happen right away. It happens slowly. You have to get to the life issues. We're just removing the thing that is being removed from the person. All those kinds of weighty things. All right. You also have to worry about the whole thing. The guy up in the sun, he dies. It doesn't have to happen right away. It happens slowly. You have to get to the life issues. We're just removing the thing that is being removed from the person. All those kinds of weighty things. All right. You also have to worry about the whole thing. The guy up in the sun, he dies. It doesn't have to happen right away. It happens slowly. You have to get to the life issues. We're just removing the thing that is being removed from the person. All those kinds of weighty things. All right. You also have to worry about the whole thing. The guy up in the sun, he dies. It doesn't have to happen right away. It happens slowly. You have to get to the life issues. We're just removing the thing that is being removed from the person. All those kinds of weighty things. All right. You also have to worry about the whole thing. The guy up in the sun, he dies. It doesn't have to happen right away. It happens slowly. You have to get to the life issues. We're just removing the thing that is being removed from the person. All those kinds of weighty things. All right. You also have to panim, that's the mokker that needs to be told us. Amar lei Rebbi Elazar ben Azarya, "Mai komer?" What's Rebbi's raya from this pasuk? So, Amar lei Reb Hiyya said to Rav, "Yeah, I don't like this raya because vav d'chisav al ha komer, it's like writing the letter vav on the trunk of a tree." If you think about a tree, it has all kinds of jagged bark. So, if you make a straight line of a vav, it gets all broken up by the bark and it's not nikkar. So, in the same way, this is not such a great mokker. Ahavah k'rachah amar Rebbi had a pasuk to which Reb Hiyya says, "K'rav r'eushim d'Avraham Avinu Avraham Avinu." Reb Hiyya was saying that the pasuk is just telling us about Avraham Avinu's reason mikdei l'mitzvos, and that's why he took a knife with him. But, it's no raya that a knife or any other thing needs to be told us before it's used. Amar Rava, "Shitalei tolush l'tzorech chevrei l'inyan avodah zarah k'chover haveei tolush." We know the halacha is that if you bow down to a mountain, it does not become assur because it's connected to the ground. But, tolush l'tzorech chevrei, let's say I bow down to my house, which is an example of tolush l'tzorech chevrei, it would be considered tolush and it would assur the house. You can't assur your neighbor's house because ain an amos d'avodah zarah sheli, you can only assur your own house because you can pick your friends and you can pick your house. But, you can't pick your friend's house. Womp womp. D'amar Mar, "Hamishtachaveh l'avodah zarah sheli assur hu." You can make your own house assur. Ee salka d'atei haveei m'chubar, then it would be Elokeihem al ha'harim v'Elokei ha'harim Elokeihem. So, vice dyce, tolush l'tzorech chevrei is going to be considered tolush for avodah zarah. L'inyan hechsher mayim, what about the liquid that's machshir foodstuffs for tumah? Because we know the halacha is that you have to have the achlin be wet in order for it to be mekabel tumah, and that wetness has to be something that you want because of b'chiutan. The reason why it needs to be wet it seems to be a machlokes Rishonim. Explain to me how the mechanics of that works. The Chinuch in Mitzvah 217 says it's because it's not called a food until you rinse off all the shmutz and dirt. When you take the carrot out of the ground, you're not going to just eat it. So, part of the process of making it food is making it wet. Whereas, the Ramban learns it's more like the spiritual pores are not open to it allow it to be mekabel tumah without having the water first. Al kol panim, l'inyan hechsher mayim is going to be tenai. It's a machlokes Tanaim d'Tanan, as the Mishnah in the fourth perek of Machshirin says, "Hakayfa kar'a al ha'kaisel." Let's say somebody turns over a plate on a wall while it's raining and therefore the rain water goes from the plate onto the pavers. Why was the plate on the wall? If it was there because he wanted to wash off the plate and therefore I want the water. Now when that water bounces out of the plate, it's wanted water and therefore it's the pavers. Let's say I only have the plate there to protect the wall. I'm really not interested in the water at all. You make from this. It sounds like let's say if I want to clean the wall, that wouldn't be enough. But if you want to want to protect the wall. If I do want to wash the wall, that would be enough considered it's two different people. The whole mission is one mission. The whole mission is one there is no different here. It's just was this wall they were talking about is that a natural wall like from a cave or was it something that somebody built? The difference being whether or not it's going to be and if you want to wash the wall, that's the day you're going to make. But with a wall of a cave which was always attached to the ground and therefore your willingness to want to use that rain water to wash the wall is not going to make anything because it's always been connected to the ground. Which the bricks were initially not part of the ground. Let's say if I but you're right. That would be so you can see that is going to be club boy turning over to even though we've already been discussing through say those who made it such that wanted to hear a new to say the price is there's a sharp piece of rock coming out of the wall. Those things are going to be like so. the wall is not always attached to the ground. It's considered like because talking about a permanent wall from a cave that was always there. So it's not they can only just like that naturally growing reads. It was always there. There's no to the price of you stick a knife in a wall and you that's for sure tell us to say Hebrew to have a riot. No, the person who put in the wall isn't putting it there permanently. It's just like temporarily there. Our whole issue of when something is there permanently. Now we can't be talking about from all time. We got to be talking about something that was once not and now it is so you see it's going to be which the says no because first it says something that's attached to the ground is going to be a and then it clarifies it by saying my the character that's a second to the layman about the way. It's all one Okay, so that's the end of the of the Hebrew. And the is not really patient that so one would think you would have to go which is what the paskins but there's a that's a little difficult because the does seem to say it will be kosher. And they say they're very bothered but they deal with that Okay, so not second we said in the price that if you stick a knife in a wall and you but let's qualify that that's where the knife is above and the neck of the animal is below second of it below but let's say the knife is sticking out of the wall and I hold the animal above the knife. Now that's going to be a problem because they're afraid that the weight of the animal will be pushing down on the knife and you're going to have pressing rather than a slicing. I think the price is second and I think that's two different that's talking about the where the knife is not sticking out of the wall. So it's okay if there's a little bit of pressure from the weight of the animal because my hand will go down, too. But second of it below that that's talking about or if we're talking about a bird the color of it's not so heavy so there's no real problem for the bird to be above the knife anyway. And there are five things we learned about a read. As Rashi says the problem with a read is that it has splinters sticking out of it and therefore don't do a bris milah with it don't cut your meat pick your teeth with it and don't use it for dental floss. Don't clean yourself after using the base with this daver that can leave splinters behind. Now this bracha says but then so you could use a read for why we saying now that you can't the we're talking about in the bracha of a certain kind of read which is going to yield these splinters. So that's why you can't use it for but other kinds of hardened reads that you can sharpen in you could. Now you can't use it to cut meat but kirve and Ziga. But Papa would actually cut fish with these things. Why? Because since the inside of the fish is transparent you can see through it you can see if there's a splinter there. So he wasn't so worried. Similarly he would cut his chicken meat or whatever other bird meat he ate because it was soft enough that he wouldn't get a splinter from the pressure of this read inside this kind of soft meat. And you can't clean yourself after the base with it. Typically I'm going to connect with let us buy that you're not allowed to use flammable objects like a read because if you do that his teeth could fall out and this does not mean your teeth in your mouth this is some kind of part of the nether region of the body. So because of that you shouldn't use flammable objects like wood and reads as your sherman. So why are we talking about the splinters? We're not talking about we're talking about cleaning a wound. That's when you're going to have a splinter problem. But in you're not going to use it after the base because the other problems of the flammable materials. It's not said again now because we have three ply toilet paper and all kinds of other wonderful things. This might have say, however, lahalacha, if one finds himself in a matzav where they need to use a flammable object like a piece of wood or whatever it is out in the middle of somewhere to be mekanaich themselves, the halacha is it is mutar. I, there is the sakana, the Magen Avraham says l'maaseh today people are not careful about these things and shomer p'sayim Hashem. And we're going to call it here and pick it up with the two dots, b'ezrat Hashem for Sunday's daf.