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Chullin Daf 134
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All right, Daf Koof-Lamed-Daled. Today
we get to finish this perek. But before
that, we need to pick it up with the
Gemara five lines from the bottom of
Koof-Lamed-Gimmel-Lamed-Beis, Zei Boi
Lehu. Ha'raish Shel Chav A'kula Sh'lei.
Let's say a Kohen says to the Yisrael
that the head of the animal is going to
be yours, but the rest of the animal
will be mine. So, Mahu? What's the
halacha? B'sar Chi'yuva Azlinan? Do we
go b'sar the part that's muchuyav, which
is the head, which has the lechi in it?
D'chi'yuva Gavai Yisrael, and therefore
that chi'yuv d'kapaart is now owned by
the Yisrael. So, when the Yisrael
shechts the animal and the chi'yuv is
chal, he now has to give that lechi to
the Kohen. Eidum B'sar E'krav E'heima
Azlinan? D'E'krav E'heima D'Kohenu,
because the main body of the animal is
takah Kohen's property, and therefore
the Yisrael should be patur from giving
the lechayaim. So, Tushma D'Gemara was
to bring a raya that Eidum Kohen
She'Maser Tzanum L'Yisrael L'Gazeiz.
Let's say a Kohen and a give over
their sheep to a Yisrael to do the
shearing. So, the halacha is patur. That
Yisrael is patur from the chi'yuv to do
the reishis ha'gez. And that's pashet
because the Kohen or the owns the
whole animal. Now, Halachah Gaz Tzanum
She'Leiv Kohen. Let's say a Yisrael just
buys the wool from the Goy's flock
before it's shorn. Halacha is patur from
reishis ha'gez. Even though the Yisrael
owned this wool when the chi'yuv should
have been chal, meaning at the time of
the shearing. But he's patur because the
owns the body of the animal. V'zeh
E'krav Yisrael E'chayav E'keiva Yishum
Reishis Ha'gez Is Takah Chil. Because if
a or a Kohen would sell Yisrael
E'chayav E'keiva of a living animal to a
Yisrael and keep the rest of the animal,
the Yisrael would be chayav to give the
matanos to the Kohen. Even though the
majority of the animal is still owned by
the mocher. So, Shma Mina B'sar Chi'yuva
Azlinan? Shma Mina. So, what did the
Gemara say? The Mishnah had said, "Im
Amar L'Chutz Min Ha'Matanos." If the
Kohen who is selling to the Yisrael
says, "I'm selling you the whole animal
except chutz from the matanos." Halacha
is patur from the matanos. Moving over
to Mem Aleph, Frak D'Gemara V'Ramenu. We
have a braisa that says, "Al Manas
She'Matanos She'Lei." Let's say a Kohen
tells the Yisrael, "I'm selling you this
animal, but al manas that I get to keep
the matanos." So, the halacha is nice
and l'chol Kohen She'Yirtzeh. The
lekeach, this Yisrael can still have the
tayvus hana'ah to pick whichever Kohen
he wants to give the matanos to. Even
though there was a t'nai that he has to
give it to the Kohen. So, what do you
see from this braisa? That he's still
muchuyav in the matanos. How does it get
an omission that says the Israel in a
very similar situation is going to put
her from the matanos? To which the
Gamara says, you're telling me a stira
between a case of al menas and a case of
chutz? Al menas and chutz come from
this. Chutz is a shiura. The definition
of chutz is means I'm not selling this
part and therefore the matanos remain
the moment of the coin and don't ever
have a chiyuv to give them. But al menas
love shiura. Al menas meaning the tenai
is external. The whole sale is taking
place, but there's an external al menas,
a tenai, and since that tenai is not
going to be binding, the Israel still
has a mitzvah to do the matanos, but he
can give it to any coin he wants to give
it to. The top ten is important over
here because even though the Gamara is
my between the chutz and al menas, but
by the al menas, why shouldn't there be
a mekach batal? Remember the lekach
doesn't get what he wants. And now we're
saying that the Israel can just give the
matanos to any coin he wants.
That wasn't the terms of the deal and
there should be a mekach batal. So ten
gives two roots. In the first ten it
says that that was the that they made a
tenai and that the mekach should not be
batal. But the second ten of ten says,
no, this is
masno but ten because the ten says you
can give any coin you want. So by trying
to limit the of the matanos to one
particular coin, that's like
masno
and therefore the ten batal the mice is
coin. It's to be mad the ten in on
where the over there was masno but ten
about a person who's getting married
without
a. You can't make such a ten because
it's masno but ten. For ten you have but
there shouldn't be a marriage because I
don't have that to get married in such a
case. To which ten over there says his
that really ten should never work
because the dibur mice. just because I
decided to make a ten should never stop
a mice from actually happening. No, the
ten works. So since ten is a
it remains external and therefore the
mice is always going to still be coin.
But for the Gamara we have a different
braiser that says al menas
shall leave al menas shall leave. So you
see that al menas does seem to be an
exclusion of the sales. And
hopefully mice of al menas is
and
al menas is
it's
in these braisers about whether or not
al menas would actually be a sheer like
a hood. Then the Mishnah said, "Amor
Machali Mayaha." Then if a guy tells the
butcher who's selling the meat to sell
me the bene Mayaha, that the cave is
inside there, so the lakeh knows that he
has to give that cave to the cohen. So
he can't go back and say, "Hey, I want
my money back for that amount." He's
achray for that part. But Amor Rav
Leshono Ela Shishak L'atzmi, the macher,
the butcher is only going to be off the
hook when the lakeh was shishak l'atzmi,
when he weighed those kishkes himself.
Aval Shishak L'atabach, but let's say
the butcher did the weighing. So I
didn't my tabach. So now now the cohen
can go mug on the money from the butcher
himself. And there's basically two
sources he can go to the lakeh Yisrael
or to the butcher macher. And there are
now two addresses to be teveyah. But Rav
Assi Amar Af Ilu Shishak L'atabach, even
if the butcher did the weighing, haddin
imai, the cohen can only go to the
lakeh. So Leima B'drov Chisda Kamifligi,
maybe the issue of this machlokes
between Rav and Rav Assi is whether or
not they hold of Rav Chisda. Was it
Chisda? So now we're going to bring up
Chisda's din, which even though it's a
totally different sugiyah, but it does
speak to the idea of having two
addresses for the payment. Di Amar Rav
Chisda Gozel Lo In Nislach Ela Im
Yishalem L'acharei Aval, and somebody
else came and ate that which the gozel
stole. So the halacha is, Rotzei Mizei
Geiva and Rotzei Mizei Geiva. The nigzal
can now go to either the first gozel or
the guy who did the achila. So D'mar Is
Leidro Rav Chisda, I'll say that Rav
holds of Rav Chisda and therefore
there's two addresses. U'mar Leis Leidro
Rav Chisda, but Rav Assi argues with Rav
Chisda in normal two addresses. But the
Gur Aryeh says it's not true. That's not
necessarily their machlokes because the
Kul Yama Islu D'rov Chisda, everybody's
maskim to Rav Chisda that in that case
Rotzei Mizei Geiva Rotzei Mizei Geiva.
But V'hacha B'matnas Kohanim Nigzales
Kamifligi. The machlokes here is whether
or not can there be a gezela by matnas
Kohanim. D'mar Savor Ein Nigzales, U'mar
Savor Ein Nigzales. Rav holds you can't
steal them, Rav Assi holds you can't.
And what's the issue whether or not you
can steal matnas Kohanim? We know that
karka isn't nigzal cuz we can imagine
that the karka is immovable. It's just
where it is, so you can't actually steal
it. And aval dam aren't nigzales cuz
they're chooks l'karka. But what's the
idea of matnas Kohanim not being able to
be stolen? Because according to Rav
Assi, since the matanais are mishuchan
gav k'zachu, so they were really always
the Kohanim's property. So, therefore,
there's no real gezela cuz all you're
doing is relocating that which was
theirs. It's never really changing
reshus. And the way the Staipler in
Siman Lamed Vav makes the chakira is
whether or not is it always muman
Kohanim or maybe it's only hefker to the
Kohanim. And there is this kind of mitan
dika stage before the Kohanim take full
control over it. And you can mastin lo
hashmaita b'nei Adam. There are some
that don't make the same machlokes from
our Mishna but just minae obey that Rav
Amar Matnas Kohanim Negzeles and Ravasi
Amar Matnas Kohanim Ein Negzeles. Zog
the Mishna, gershan is gayer. Let's say
you have a gayer that is megayer. Heard
Rav Razna point out, why is it called a
gershan is gayer? Why isn't it a goyish
is gayer? And he said over from somebody
Muser that anybody who actually goes
through with a gayerus, there was epis
something in that goy's life that gave
him that destiny that he was going to be
a gayer. So, you can always say it
retroactively. But once he is megayer,
he's that gershan is gayer. Yivalt.
Anyway, the gershan is gayer b'cheil
alai para and he had a cow when he was a
So, it all depends on when it was
g'shachtin. Nishkat actually in this
gayer if the sh'chita before his gayerus
then he'll be patur because at that
point it was the goyish sh'chita. Mishe
Nisgayer though, he'll be chayiv. But
safek, let's say I don't know whether or
not it was Jew owned at the time of the
sh'chita, patur because shamayti
b'chaveirai al of haraya. Zog the
Gemara, ki oso of Dimi Amar, Rummy lei
Rebbi Shimon ben Lakish l'Rebbi
Yochanan. Reish Lakish posed the
following stira. Rebbi Yochanan,
k'tzinan, we learned in our Mishna that
safek patur. Al masfeika l'kula. That
safek matnas Kohanim is a kula and
therefore it's a maytzi b'chaveirai al
of haraya. I have a minhu but I have a
kasha from matnas aniyim in Maseches
Peah in the fourth perek that churei
hanimolim b'secha kama, let's say you
have pieces of grain that you find in
the ant holes. Harei eilu shel baal
habayis. We don't assume that they are
leket but rather the baal habayis can
keep it. Ushul acher hakaitzrim, but any
grain that's found in the churei
hanimolim shel al hayainim v'ladim, the
upper ones are going to belong to the
aniyim v'tachtonim shel baal habayis.
Because if they're at the top we're
going to assume it's the aniyim cuz they
presumably fell in there as leket at the
time of the harvest. But the lower part
we'll give it to the baal habayis cuz it
was there beforehand. That's what the
ants put it there beforehand. But Rebbi
Meir Amar kol aniyim. Shel safek leket
is leket. So here you have a mishnah
where of mayor says a safec leket is
going to have a din of leket. In which
case since
who is also a stum of the mishnah like
our mishnah, why are we saying
you should go and also make it into
everything
is back to
I'll take me to don't hack me a chinik
from a mishnah about leket. She
because that's
the because the price is
mayor leket leket safec leket safec paya
that's
this
of
been agra's version of mayor. But our
mishnah the stum of mayor doesn't
necessarily subscribe to been agra's
understanding of
mayor about safec and
but is
I'll
I
it wouldn't even matter if you would
learn this mishnah according to
which been
was a
whose name was
because he would say silly things. This
may be the of the of a tattle tale. I'll
let that sink in for a moment. But
anyway it's not really a correct way to
understand
because it wouldn't matter anyway
because
there is a
why the safec
should go to the we still have to
explain why our mishnah is not working
out like this mishnah in and what's the
that is talking about
my
which seems to imply that we're going to
go in favor of the poor person. So my
if you're
saying that we're going to like the poor
person that can't be because of the
safec the
we're not on favoritism just because
they're poor. And
we shall the you kind of lean in his
favor when you don't know if you have to
give that
so a special
if something you give it to the so so
too there should be the same with
but the safec
because we're kind of assuming that the
is part of that
since the doesn't own his own land in
Israel and he kind of relies on to
survive. So back to our why in our
mishnah when you have a safec do we say
you have to give it to the cohen.
In our mishnah, there's a chazakas ptur
because the guy was a so we don't
have a chiyuv b'chlal of matanos. But
kama, by the case of the grain in the
mishnah in pe'ah, the chazakas chiyuv
kama. So what we're saying we're
basically applying our chazaka d'meikara
over here, making the chiluk between
this mishnah and the mishnah in pe'ah.
Now at this point I should reference the
very important ran in nedarim on daf
zayin, over there by the sugiyah of
yada'is, where the ran does a sikum at
the end of the halacha of yesh yad
l'zeh, yesh yad l'zeh, and there's a
question about yesh yad l'tzdaka, where
the ran brings from his rabbanim, the
ramban, the rashba, that because it's
d'nei ba'alei eish that we have to go
l'chumra because of the safek d'oraisa
l'chumra. However, the ran himself says
it's not true because it's safek mumon,
and safek mumon is l'kula as evidenced
by the sugiyah in zera'im v'keva on daf
kuf lamed daled. The ran brings a raya
from our sugiyah that the way we view
safek matnas ani'im is safek mumon, not
safek issur. It's obviously a very
important machlokes rishonim. All right,
back to the gemara. So Rava is making a
chiluk between our mishnah that has a
chazakas ptur and the mishnah in pe'ah
that has a chazakas chiyuv kama.
Amarleih Abaye, b'hadai issa, what about
the similar kind of a case in the third
perek of maseches chala about an issa
that na'asasa acharei nisgayer, if the
dough was made before the guy was
nisgayer, similar, potrinan chala. But
mishan nisgayer, you'll be chayav. And
safek, you'll be chayav. So why would
Rava say that the chazakas ptur would be
enough to not have to give it? You also
have the chazakas ptur by the safek
chala, yet the mishnah in chala says
you're chayav. So amarleih Rav back to
Abaye, safek issur l'chumra, over safek
mumon is l'kula. Because of the safek
issur of chala, that's why it's going to
be l'chumra. But by matanos, which is
purely mumon, you will be poter. D'omer
chizvei chintorei d'vei chiyya, shmona
sfeikos namru b'giyur. There are eight
sfeikos l'gabei giyurim. Arba is
l'chiyuv and v'arba is l'ptur. And what
are the cases that are l'chiyuv? Number
one is korban ishtei, when it's safek if
she had a layda when she was still not
before or after she became a giyores. Or
v'chala, or b'char beheima t'me'a,
b'char chamor, or u'v'char beheima
t'hora. All those will be l'chiyuv.
Turning over to me base. However,
reishis hagazel v'matanos, the pinyan of
Ben opinion better come out. Those will
all be lip tour cuz there's no issue and
it's only a Diddy mommies and if I don't
always be the cooler and I might be my
favorite of a riot. He also wrote in a
more different version of this but had
nothing to do with our mission. Come out
a comma Romeo lay for Sherlock is was
making a steer between mission and pay
and a price that also is talking about a
comma and apparently got to the same
result but it wasn't because of our
mission. Lady Zara Bukisha lady actually
was planting his grain in the location
of Kish below how you a name the
Mishkolaket but there were no a name to
take the leket that his field had
produced. So also come out of shades he
came to shades his number later shades
told him the only way to get the basin
the layover but not for the Ravens the
layover at all a theme or for the bats.
In other words, if the poor don't show
up you have to move to leave the leket
out there you can just take it for
yourself. There is an interesting issue
here to point out that the shades just
live in Bovel which is now mash up from
this Gamora that there is a here of
leket outside of our sister man since
maybe it was only here of the rabbinate
will be more make over there and I might
be not this man is anyway even in our
sister we're not make it which you can
pay us and cuz either game will take it
or as the Hazen each rights that's not
what a name would be collecting. If a
name is hungry he's not coming and
taking raw grain from your field. He's
coming for a check. So since that's the
way it's done cuz done today the leket
chicken pay will not have its huge
anymore because my name is I just said
told lady that he can just have this
himself because he's not to leave it out
there if the name aren't coming. So
Mason Bay the prices says in maybe in
trauma let me go in the ear for a name
in my belly show. You don't have to
bring your trauma from the guy in to the
guy in in the city or from a mid bar to
a guy in rather the guy in should go to
the guy in and get the trauma himself.
The main show kind of there's no kind to
come and take the trauma say for my view
you got to rent a cow and bring it and
they have to trauma. The price is very
clear that if there's no kind taking the
trauma you still have to be my first the
trauma from the crop and hold it until
the kind will eventually take it. So for
after the Gamora the same thing should
be by the leket. Lady should have to
store this until a name shows up. And
the Gamora very obvious terror it's
shiny trauma to Tavola. Trauma is Tavola
for the saga the lay my first love and
therefore there's no answer but to be my
first ship. But there's no Tavola by the
case of the leket. I have a hurry my
tone nice. What about my tone nice the
lay Tavola? There's no Tavola as we keep
saying by the matanas. The animals still
yet
a place where the people have the to
pour the boiling water on the limbs of
the in order to be able to burn off the
hair and then they would eat the like
that.
You know what a skin is ready before you
give it to the and I'll have to
and then
the animals saying around to collect
these
you have to set aside the money and then
you're going to eat these parts of the
animal have to say in because otherwise
if you don't separate the money there
going to be a loss to the and what do
you see even by which there isn't any
still the is to separate them until
somebody shows up to take the money
which is shining in the next and
therefore there's a special in the to
eventually give it to a even if no one
is going to happen right away. This is
of course to the
about whether or not there's a even if
there is no is a person still have a
independent of the receiving end
so now the realizes I should
true the same I can say the same thing
by it's a because of the is the same
Okay
then what do I need the extra
because it says twice in the shouldn't
that come to tell us that you have to
hold on to it until a poor person shows
up to which the we're learning from
another
we have to let's say someone's in the
morning he got up early picked the fruit
in the morning he got up early picked
the fruit
but
because now you're being kind of from so
you'll be from but you'll be in the
that's what we're going to learn from
the so the who didn't the also
there was this bag of
that was brought to the called him
the
and he said
we
we see by the you're supposed to do in
the but
the shouldn't take it for himself and
the understanding is that if that's what
the is by
even when there's a donation and being
given for
you shouldn't just take it for yourself
you should wait for the and the said he
was helping on behalf of the
or
the is the says
she got to me
the kind of good should be more good
in beauty wisdom and his
a camera minute let's say if the coin
doesn't have any wealth
my God I said that the other ones raise
him up by giving him their own money
tell me coin
God Michelle they should pop him up as
needed the last mission is there was
real let's define what is this way we
keep talking about Parish
at calf shall yacht. It's the front four
leg on that part of the leg who shall
Nazir and that's also the same four leg
of the carbon that the Nazir brings
regular shake and when we talk about
carbon
it's that hind leg in the same way when
we talk about that the shake
shake
shall
save shall regular the regular is the
joint between the two upper bones is the
knee joint and according to we're
including only that middle section the
tibia and lastly is a lucky what is the
lucky what's the jaw that we're talking
about that's Parish at Pica shall
gargaris it's from the joint of the jaw
to the top of the trachea and I want to
ask that
it's the right four leg at the Israel
and all the smile tell me
the Israel my
how do we see that means the right one
could over
your a close or should need to get an
usher of the York so that hey is how
many humans should be York the most
which is the right one
is real how many humans should be real
so it's the right side the higher I am
my also what's the higher of the higher
I am the higher summer Parish some it's
including the wool on the heads of these
question the question the
and the hair of the chinny chin chin of
these goats the cable of my also what's
the higher cable the higher cable the
the
should be cable it's the higher of fat
on top of the cable on top of that
stomach and the milk within it the
higher of the issue the higher of the
boy in your feet we give it with the
extra meaning with the higher of the one
in the
by which means they didn't take it
from the by in the first place time I
did not that the higher were not hug be
more generous but holy no hug would it
do who really it was theirs they had a
so the Torah was including these extra
amounts with the cave. Darsh Amora's how
you I'm rim these Darshanam would say
that has raised can I get a yard is
right is can I get that hand of that
yard of pin kiss that with his can I is
he was like it have this can I get him
the hand who I am I got be a day will I
can I get it's feel like can I get pin
kisses to feel like I knew I am I pin
kiss via fellow and cave he must know
it's a reference to the more literal
meaning the hand who I am I say I shall
I cover sir because that's what happened
in the story because the right mark went
through both the issue and the issue on
that area of their cave. The time
there's a time that learns it from here
that
the right Sheikh carbon only a lot
Sheikh I am in Israel could ask me nine.
How do I know that the other four leg
the muscle by the carbon Nazir has to
also be the right one time of labor
trauma. So that extra word tells it has
to be the right one. Israel
how do I know that Israel of a animal
shall also be the right one time of
labor
too which is a reference to the matter
how we see that that should also now be
the right one. The mission
what is the lucky what's the job in a
pair of a picker shall get get rest the
attorney the price of says that tells a
base
that's not just the top of the trachea
but it's the whole base of which is the
more and it's going to get our mission
kosher or a bottom or a bikini thickness
because the attorney the price of says
my grandma's we learned about how
grandma when you cut on an angle it's
going to pass all the so hey Ruby
thickness on my grandma's
he had a case of a grandma that was
still going to be kosher. So you have
two different definitions of what's
considered that top of the windpipe
above this to boss on the trachea. So
according to the price of says base of
that could be going to be near who holds
it is still going to be kosher but the
mission of it doesn't call base of is
cuz the whole is going to be possible
that point or by a similar bottom my
email when the price of says email
meaning the base of email the behavior
means with the animal but in the base of
is not going to be given to the client
but stays with the animal.
And with that, Rabbi Siyach Hadranan
Siyum,
am and now we get to start the 11th
perek of Rosh Hashanah tomorrow. I'll do
my best to record both dafim of Rosh
Hashanah and post them before Yom Tov.
But since this is Friday's daf, it's
still fair for me to right now wish
everybody a K'tiva V'Chatima Tova and a
good K'visha Tova and we'll see you next
time.