Chullin Daf 129

All right, Duff Kuf Khav Tes, as we are going to finish this perek. But first, we got to do this last blot. Let's pick it up four lines from the bottom of Kuf Khav Khes amud beis. Tanna Rabbanan, "Acha dech k'zayis basar m'eiver m'nachai." Let's say you got some eiver m'nachai and you cut off what our Gemara says is k'zayis. Rashi says, "Don't be geres. K'zayis." Rashi actually says it's a beiah, which is Rashi's lishita say, as the Marsha points out that according to Rashi that for achlin to have tumas achlin have to be the size of a beiah. Connected to the Rambam, this is going to be a kal shuv. All right, but let's get back to the braisa. "Acha dech k'zayis basar m'eiver m'nachai." You cut off this little stickle of eiver m'nachai hot chai. "V'achar kach chishavah l'avtara." You cut it off and then you plan on using it now for an achal. You're going to feed it to a non-Jewish person because it's eiver m'nachai after all. So this stuff, which is not really food unless you deem it food, it will therefore be tahor. "V'achar kach v'achar kach hot chai," then it'll be tamei. So depending on when the cutting happened, if the cutting and then you were chishavah l'avtara, but if you first you chishav some, you designated as food, and then you cut it off from the animal, it will be tamei. It acquired a tumas achlin from the eiver m'nachai when it was still connected. But once that basar was separated from the eiver and lost the tuma of eiver m'nachai, the tumas achlin now, which was kind of like tallei v'aimaid, it now can be chal. And it can be tamei with tumas achlin. "Rebbi Assi lo al l'bei Medrasha." One time Rebbi Assi didn't go to Bais Medrash. So "Ashkachai Rebbi Zeira amar lei." Rebbi Assi said to him, "Mai amar b'bei Medrasha?" What was learned in yeshiva today? What did they learn in Bais Medrash? "Amar lei Zocter Zeira, 'Mai kasha lech?'" What was so shver to you? Apparently, he knew the sugia they were discussing. So he wanted to know what was shver to you about it. So "Amar lei Zocter Assi, 'The tanni what was bothering me the tanni because the braisa says "Chishav v'achar kach hot chai is tamei." If you plan on using it for food and then you cut it off, it's going to be tamei. But frech Rebbi Assi, why should it be tamei at all?" Moving over to amud aleph. "Tumas Bais Hastarami." This is a case of tuma of a Bais Hastarami, a concealed area, because the area that was touching the rest of the body, the connection point of the tuma, it was covered because before you cut it off, it was covered. And the tumas Bais Hastarami is leima tamei. "Zocter Zeira amar lei, 'Haflei di kashlei. I took ahead that shver to us. She iltei l'Rebbi Avahu.'" You know what he said to me? How many know the time is it to be mayor? He the Amar Thomas base of storm is metame. Says no problem because the tag is tame even though it's base of storm. Amarle is Rav Asi back to Zera of a love zimnin sagin Amar kamoi. Didn't he say this same teretz in front of me many times where Amarle and I told him that shali lay of the mayor bay in time of the boy or bay in time of the boy depends whether or not it needs a hechsher. Meaning according to Rav Meir the only time you're going to say that Thomas base of storm is metame is if he already was metame. But the busser over here that's cut off from the animal before it's not metame even according to Rav Meir. So how does this busser become tame because it's base of storm? Amar Rava my kashya what's a shvere? Dilma bish maybe the brice is talking about where it was metame before it was cut off from the and that's why the brice is saying it's tame. Amarle Rava bar of Lero why would it need a hechsher at all? Take a step back and recognize that you don't even need a hechsher in the first place because if it's ultimately going to have a tame as we've learned earlier you don't need to ever have a hechsher because the idea is it's ultimately going to have a tame as we've learned earlier you don't need to ever have a hechsher because the idea is it can never become a because the idea is it can never become a and therefore it's a and therefore it requires a hechsher. However, a tame something that can become an does not even need a hechsher. Amarle back to Rava bar of kish she mesh my say she mesh when it's in its motive of being a tame at that point it's like a this is how Rashi explains it because it's a it's not really food even though it's meat but that's meat that's looked at as part of the that's not really a piece of food. It's seen as a different kind of classification. It's more about the bones and the eat them which is more like inedible so that kind of is not going to affect its motive of when it could be an and therefore it would still need a hechsher. Now our is going to take rest to give us a bunch of different similar kinds of examples five in total where we have this idea that it's going to be a different kind of a classification and won't have the same halachic status. I'm Rabaya Hari Amru like we see in the Braisa in Pesachim by Keifas Sa'ar She' Chad L'Yeshivas Botla. Let's say I have this block of Sa'ar of yeast and it's so inedible that you can sit on it. So if I'm Meyached it for Yeshiva, it's going to become bottle and therefore it can even achieve the status of being a Moshav. So let's say if a Zav would sit on it it would have Tumas Moshav. It's yeast but no, now it's a chair. The Gemara on this Braisa Tumasa is Lav De'oraisa. That Tuma of the Moshav can't be a Tuma De'oraisa. These are De'oraisa De'oraisa. If you're going to tell me that the Tuma is a De'oraisa Dikkat Tuma of Moshav, so Matzinu L'Achlin She'Mitamin Tuma Chamura. So come come to Chais when it was just Sa'ar, meaning when it was just an Oichel, I could have looked at this Oichel and say, well, it's going to be Metamei Tuma Chamura. It can become a Moshav De'oraisa and therefore I don't need to have Hechsher for it, which the Gemara says is not true. And the same idea of Buddha's Kishishimush, when you're using it as a chair, Ma'aseh Eitz Shimush, it's already now Panim Chadashos and we're not going to look at it as food. So it's not going to be a Tuma Chamura that's coming by Sa'if because it's a different object at that point. Tosefta's gives an interesting question over here. If you're telling me this yeast is not going to be Tamei De'oraisa and won't be a Moshav De'oraisa, then why are you allowed to have it in your house on Pesach? You're telling me Min Ha'Torah it's still considered yeast, so L'Chara it should be Assur. And the Tosefta Rosh over here says, well, maybe you're Mevatel it. And it could be the reason why Tosefta's didn't want to say this where Rebbi Razner suggested maybe because Tosefta's Sheyitasei holds that Bittul Chametz is working me time Hefker and therefore you can't just be Mevatel it as a chair. You'd first have to you have to be Mevaker it which you're not doing. Just a little interesting side point there. Omri Rabaya number two, Hari Amru. The Braisa says Tikroves Avodah Zarah Chametz Oichel Metamei B'Ohel. If you have food that is Tikroves Avodah Zarah, which we know that Tikroves Avodah Zarah give off a Tuma just like a Meis. So in the same way Tumasa Lav De'oraisa D'isur Achila De'oraisa Matzinu L'Achlin She'Mitamin Tuma Chamura. This food before you made it into a Tikroves Avodah Zarah L'Chara is L'Chara Shayach being a Tuma Chamura, in which case you wouldn't need the Hechsher for it, which the Gemara says the same thing. Kishishimush Ma'aseh Eitz Shimush, it's serving a different kind of function and it's no different than the wood that they would be uh evading it's not considered safe to hammer. Hammer by a hurry on with the mission says Kaylin dummy. This is talking about hummus that's stuck in the cracks of the Kaylin of the kneading trough. Calls money you wanted to stay there. It becomes bottle to the Kaylee itself. That's the hollow over there in so in the same way to must and must be loved to suck a dick right because it becomes a Kaylee and therefore to my camera. Same thing she made my say it's she made and the fourth one early harder Tanya the Bryce says in as we saw beforehand. This is on Kaylin of the navel of a farm the Kaylin from a navel in the villages in the smaller places where there were less people so therefore there was more meat to eat and they wouldn't need to eat the Kaylin cuz it's not going to be cuz it's not going to be considered food right away cuz people don't need eat it but it could become a food and therefore to my say I got cool yellow so must be the two of Naville all you did the cool yellow which is the of that Kaylin is not me the right there I said I said which is not the case we say again my say it's she made it's not food at that time and therefore even the two of that point could be me the right but it doesn't say that the Kaylin doesn't require capital to me before it can become to me and the fifth and final example of mass in a hurry on Rue by a house that you put the seeds on the roof that if the seeds are going to be to me they're going to become to our club either to me say and because the seeds are no longer considered food but rather it's a roofing material for your house and therefore they can also be shack to the to me of the house so on that to me why cuz I take my could become to me same carrots cuz she made my say it's she made it's a kind of if you're going to use this rhyme as your roofing materials then it's not food and therefore you wouldn't even have a reason to say it'll be safe to me okay back to our mission The end of the Mishnah was talking about this Aiver Miduldulus in the case of a Niveila, the animal subsequently dies. So in such a case Reb Meir says that that buser requires hechsher l'kabul tumah and that the Aiver will be tumah as Aiver Min Ha Chai and not an Aiver Min Ha Niveila. But Rebbi Shimon is metahir. So now I'm going to shaf shaf the Gemara. How do we understand shitas Reb Shimon? Im misah is anipul, if you tell me that the actual death makes it we look at there's a disconnection and a detachment of all these Aiver Miduldulum and therefore we're going to look at like it came off right before the animal died. So l'tamei mishum Aiver Min Ha Chai cuz it came off before the animal died. And if you ain't misah is anipul, then l'tamei mishum Aiver Min Ha Niveila because it became a Niveila with the rest of the animal and the animal just dropped dead. But either way this Aiver is going to be tumah. So how does Reb Shimon not say that? And for the Gemara Rebbi Shimon al reisha kayrim. That shitas Reb Shimon at the end of the Mishnah was going back to the first part of the Mishnah not the end of the Mishnah. Cuz the first part of the Mishnah says so Aiver Min Ha Buser Miduldulin but beheima metamei tumas ochlin b'makaymin d'tzrichin hechsher. So l'gabei that zach Rebbi Shimon at the end of the Mishnah Rebbi Shimon is metahir and it's not going to be shayeich to tumas ochlin. And to that amar Rebbi Assi amar Rebbi Yochanan my tamei Rebbi Shimon? Why does Rebbi Shimon say that the Aiver Miduldulus is not going to be shayeich to tumas ochlin? Cuz amar kra the pasuk says mikol ha'ochel asher ye'ochel. That we darshin ochel sh'at yochal l'ochlo acher k'riachl. When we say something is food that means it has to be mutar to eat. It has to be called food. But ochel sh'at yochal l'ochlo but something you can't feed to somebody turning over tumas beis l'achayrim ain k'ri ochel. And therefore it's not shayeich to tumas ochlin because it's not technically an ochel if it's not mutar to eat. Amar lei Rebbi Zera l'Rebbi Assi. But dilma tamei Rebbi Shimon hasam? Maybe the p'shat in shitas Rebbi Shimon is because haylum urah m'urah. Because it's a little bit attached and therefore a living animal is not shayeich to tumah. So it's still attached not because of the drash we just said. And I'll show you a precedent for that because d'tnaan we learned it in a Mishnah in Uktzin as we already said this. We said it on Shabbos daf yochal sh'at einah sh'nifshach um'urah b'klipah. Let's say you have this branch of the tree it's cracked on the inside but it still is m'urah with the bark. And now the question is is the fruit considered muchuber to the tree and therefore not susceptible to tumah or not? So, Rebbi Yehudah is matir because the branch is still attached. If it can regenerate and re-heal, then the then it's considered like it's mahuber and therefore it's going to be tar. But if it doesn't, it's going to be tamei because the branch is disconnected. Because it's still attached. The same thing that could be shaatnez of Shimon. This ever min ha dolles is still a shaatnez attached and that's going to be maybe why it's tar. Not because of this drasha of Rebbi it's not going to be mutar to eat. So, Amora says Rebbi Yosi back to Rebbi Zeira, "Am tzei'isa." Rebbi Yochanan was saying that the shaatnez of Shimon's shita was talking about the middle part of the mishna, which says nishchita beheima hochsheru dam mayit Rebbi Meir, that the actual meisa shchita according to Rebbi Meir, that blood of the dam shchita is machsher the rest of the meat, to which Rebbi Shimon omer lo hochsheru. Omer Rebbi Yochanan, "My ta'ama Rebbi Shimon, why is according to Rebbi Shimon the ever min ha dolles is not going to be hochsher al yedei dam shchita?" Because Omer Kro, "Bikol ochel she yecheil, ochel she yecheil yecheil l'acheirim k'orech ochel she'ein ochel l'acheirim k'orech. You have to be able to eat it." So, according to Rebbi Shimon, they're not going to be shayeich to tumah al yedei dam shchita. Rebbi Meir ben Rebbi Shimon behahi, maybe the shaatnez shita of Rebbi Shimon by the case of the mishna is because he holds like Rebbi Akiva or like Rebbi Yochanan. Because either like Rebbi Akiva or Rebbi Yochanan, the ever min ha dolles from a beheima that was gishachtin is shayeich to tumah. And therefore Rebbi Yochanan's drasha of the pasuk wouldn't be talking about the case of the mishna. So, ela l'eil maseifa, Rebbi Yochanan's drasha was takke going about the end of the mishna, where the animal just dropped dead without a shchita. And Rebbi Yochanan's understanding according to Rebbi Shimon, it's because since it's assur to eat, the the eid can't feed this to a a because it's a treifa min ha chai and therefore it's not considered an ochel. I it's going to be tamei anyway, either al treifa min ha chai or al neveila. So, Rebbi Akiva ever ela abosar, Rebbi Shimon wasn't talking about the ever but he was just talking about basar. In economy, the ever will be tamei even according to Rebbi Shimon. So, this is how you have to read the end of the mishna. Meisa beheima habosar tzarich hechsher. If the animal dies without any shchita, so that basar that's dangling is going to require a couple of tumah. But Rebbi Shimon is metahir cuz even if you're machshir by making it wet, it will still won't become tumah. And Rebbi Yehudah am metameh Rebbi Shimon. Why is that? Because of the qara "mikol ochel sheyochal ochel sheyochal l'cheil l'chem k'oreil ochel." "Ochel sheyochal l'cheil l'chem in k'oreil ochel." So really it's the same punchline. We just arrived there slightly differently. But it comes out according to Rebbi Shimon, it's because of the fact that it's not classified as food when it's not going to be allowed to be eaten. So that's the last mishnah in this perek. "Ha'eiver v'habassar hameduldalin b'adam is tahor." Let's say you have a human being nebach whose limbs are falling off. So he's got this dangling eiver. That will be tahor. It's considered like it's still part of his body and a person is still tahor. If it's completely severed, then it will have tumas meis. But this is not completely severed. Now, meis adam, once the guy takka dies, habassar tahor because the meisa is eis anipul. It makes it look as if it separates him. And therefore it's considered bassar min hachai, which is not tamei. But however, metamei mishum eiver min hachai. So it won't be the tumas meis of a dead body, but it will be tamei as eiver min hachai. "V'einam metamei mishum eiver min hameis." Divrei Rebbi Meir, but Rebbi Shimon is metahir. So if now according to Rebbi Shimon, let's try to understand shitas Rebbi Shimon. "D'Rebbi Shimon mon afshach, im meisa eis anipul, so it's considered like it disconnected before the person was dead as a result of his death, so it's tamei mishum eiver min hachai." It's going to be tamei anyway. "V'im ein meisa eis anipul, so then letamei mishum eiver min hameis." And it's going to be a regular dead body, which is always going to be tamei meis. So how can Rebbi Shimon say it's tahor? And for the Gemara, Rebbi Shimon b'alma kai. Rebbi Shimon wasn't talking about this case. He was talking about it in general, not a case of eiver meduldal. "D'kamar tanna kama," meaning a reference to Rebbi Meir that "ha'eiver metamei mishum eiver min hachai v'ein metamei mishum eiver min hameis." "Alma eiver hameis b'alma is metamei." You see, in general, that an eiver that comes off a dead body is going to be metamei. "Af dem, v'amar lei Rebbi Shimon, eiver hameis b'alma is metamei." An eiver that was chopped off from a dead body is not going to be metamei. Only when it has a kizayis of bassar, that's what's going to be metamei. It's not about the eiverkeit. It's about the bassar, the amount of that bassar. "Did tanya is the braisa says, amar Rebbi Eliezer, shamati she'eiver min hachai is metamei. Amar lei Rebbi Joshua will cover him or to Syria be telling me it comes from a dead body. Ever have to tell me may shoot to me like all she can that she certainly become to me. And Zachary because of the tightness this was a era the misinterpret is a young for you can't make a husband. So rubber the misinterpret sounds like what a cure of meaning 15th day of Nissan you're allowed to be my spirit of not a local the hand it's certainly It's a couple of you can't make a husband on proper sake. So how can I make all the so here also we have an ever that comes off of a dead body certainly that's going to be a couple of that will be to me. So I'm going to be back to be a show this is what I heard from my meaning this was my messiah that only from a living person could be a but not an ever from a dead body. So we have now at least the leaser for me is had on that the critical issue is not going to be the ever that comes from the dead body. It's going to be because of the bus. I getting back to mayor's the mission there's a between the ever that comes off of the living person from a dead person club in the tomb of freight the who might ever been a highly ever been a maze. What's the difference? So the case I suppose I can say a person ever been a highly enough to me is going to be that case I suppose or the that comes from the living person did none as we learned in the mission in the sixth part of case I suppose if you have a case I suppose that comes off of an ever from a living person to be a leaser to be a leaser at some case I suppose if you have a bone the size of the barley corn a person ever been a highly that came off an ever from a living person is and a leaser to be a leaser so the that said between an ever that came from a living person and an ever that came from a dead person is that by the case of an ever that came from a dead person a case I suppose or case I suppose that comes off will be to me but an ever that come off of a living person will be to her. So how should I once you telling me that this is the hiluk the living and dead person that comes off of. So Ben Azzai and Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Shimon and Rabbi Nami because I suppose because I already knew that should be the nafka mina between Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Shimon regarding the zayis bit of basar and the etzem kashaira that come from the aver that was cut off of a living person. So they're not really arguing about the tumah of the aver that comes off of the dead guy. They're talking about the aver from a living person that both are maskim to the aver madul dalis who then dies. We look at the aver as if it came off of a living person. But according to sheetas Rabbi Meir, an aver from a living person is different from the aver of a dead person in the single way, either klapae kashaira basar or etzem kashaira. But Rabbi Shimon argues and says it's going to be tahor. And when he says it means tahor, he means both are tahor. Either the basar or the etzem kashaira. And therefore really Rabbi Shimon is going like sheetas Rabbi Yehoshua, not Rabbi Meir. And we no longer need to come on to Rabbi Shimon holding like Rabbi Eliezer that we said beforehand that an aver that comes off of a mais is not going to be tumae b'atzmo. Maybe he does hold like that it's going to be tumae. And with that hadran alacha Rabbi Yishmael, we finished it, folks. We got through this perek. And now we got these three short, very gishmaka prakim coming up before we close out maseches chulin. See you next time.