Chullin Daf 126

All right, Daf kuf kuf vov, Thursday's daf. And the Gemara at the end of yesterday's shiur had introduced shitas Rebbi Yosi that tumas tumuna in a bikas, which contrary to the way we understand tuma, that tuma just kind of shoots up when there's no pesach tefach to be mahel on it, that's a principle that Rebbi Yosi disagrees with. Because if it's tumas tumuna, it won't be bikas, it won't go up. And now we're going to pick it up, I think it's 10 lines from the bottom of kuf kuf hey alef beis, with u minna tamra, where do we see that Rebbi Yosi's shita is going to be that the tumas tumuna is in a bikas. And it should be pointed out that there's an important Tosafos in Eruvin an ayin ches that qualifies this shita that tumas tumuna is in a bikas, it's not going to be that way b'kevar, it's not like if you walk over a grave, there's no tuma because it's tumuna, because the pasuk talks about a kevar sending out that tuma. So it has to be that even according to shitas Rebbi Yosi, it's talking specifically about other kinds of tuma. Tumuna is not going to be bikas. All right, b'al ko panim, u minna tamra, deitnan, because the Mishna in the fourth perek of ayin lamed alef says, deir tefach. Talking about some kind of piece of furniture, a teiva, inside of a migdal, a some sort of a smaller compartment inside of a bigger, let's say dresser drawers, that has a pesach tefach, it's got that space of a tefach inside of it, but the case is the en bi yitzias a pesach tefach, the opening doesn't have a tefach space. So there's a piece of tumas meis that's inside this thing, and hayois there is a tefach of open space above it, so you should have that oil. But when you would take it out, it's not going to have an opening that has the size of the tefach. So the halacha is tuma b'seicha, if there is a piece of meis inside of that teiva, habayis tamei, because the entire piece of furniture here, this entire cabinet is inside of the house, and therefore the house is going to be tamei, even though the opening of this teiva is too small to allow tuma to go out, but still the house will the bayis will have a din d'rabbonan of tuma, because eventually the meis has to come out of that piece of furniture into the house, and at that point there will certainly be a tuma in the house, and therefore there's a din d'rabbonan called seif tuma lo otzei, that's going to be metamei the house even now. However, tuma b'bayis, let's say there is a dead body in the house, masha b'seicha star, that which is inside of the teiva will stay tar. It's protected by the inside of that opening which is less than a tefach mibnei sh'tei ruchot tumah lotzes v'ein derech tumah l'kaneis. So you don't have that d'rabannan in the other direction. But v'Rebbi Yishmael metaher. So Rebbi Yishmael that even if there is tumah inside the teiva, the bayis will still remain tar mipnei sheyachol hu l'hotzi l'chatzai v'l'saref b'makomah. Since theoretically you can cut the tumah into small enough pieces inside of that keili or it can be burned inside that keili and therefore it won't be metamei. So since there's no need for the tumah to ever be brought into the house, it's not technically safe tumah lotzes b'hechrach and therefore the bayis will remain tar. But v'katanei seifa, what does it say in the next mishna over there in ayeles? That hamida b'pesach pischah l'chutz. Let's say the entire piece of furniture is wedged in the doorway. So when it opens up, it opens up to outside the house. So then the halachic tumah besaicha, that tumah, that piece of mace that's inside of the teiva, habayis tar, the house will stay tar since it only opens up to outside the house. Tumah babayis, had the piece of mace be in the house, d'masha besaicha tar, that inside the teiva will remain tar because it's protected since the opening is only to outside the house. Moving over to madalif, v'tanei alah in the braisa said l'gabei this mishna Rebbi Yishmael is metaher. Now let's focus on that. Aha, what's Rebbi Yishmael going on when he says that Rebbi Yishmael is metaher? Eilima seifa, if it's going on that latter halacha where the whole piece of furniture is wedged in the doorway, that can't be because tanakama nami tahurei kametaher. Even in that case tanakama is going to be maskim it's tar. But the braisa is implying that there's a machlokes that he's arguing with the tanakama. So that can't be. So ela d'kama tanakama tumah besaicha habayis tamei. Must be Rebbi Yishmael understood that the tanakama was saying that if there's tumah inside that teiva, the bayis will be tamei for one of two reasons. Im yishum d'derech tumah lotzes, that d'rabannan, or if im yishum d'tumah t'munah b'kas, that the tumah goes up. D'kamar Rebbi Yishmael and av d'am zocher Rebbi Yishmael d'ko amrit, l'gabei that which you said, derech tumah lotzes, it's because the way the tumah has to go out, that can't be because yachol hu l'hotzi l'chatzai v'l'saref b'makomah because it could technically be destroyed and cut up into small pieces. What do you call that what you said is that's not the case because ain't no and boom there you have it. That is correct. If you're telling me that you know we have the mission backing us up the we have a steer because it's not the mission in the 11th paragraph says how shall we say you have a hungry dog and ate some dead body. So you might think that there's a source of inside of this dog the dog is it dies right here and this dead carcass of a dog is is on the threshold of the house meaning it's in between the inside and the outside of the house. Russia says it's neck and therefore it's head is within the threshold but the whole rest of the body of the dog is outside of the house and the piece of of the dead body is inside the dog's stomach which is technically outside of the house. Okay so mayor if there's enough space in the animal's neck of so maybe is a it schleps the into the house because now you have an oil with that empty which is going to hold the and now you have an oil maze inside the house. Now even though you might be thinking to yourself is it really empty space inside the neck and the way to understand this sheet of because of which is a that means that we can actually be you can imagine it missing in order to be the area that we're talking about because these obstructions of the fleshy part of its inside of its neck considered like it exists even though you didn't technically take away that obstruction. We say the same thing so without really understanding all the nuance of just just be aware that we are looking at it as if there is a air space of empty nothingness in the neck of the animal in order to create this oil for that which is in its stomach. So that's what initially says here in the maybe is a but if the neck of this dog is not going to have the in a maybe is a but Ryan we look at the actual connect it will lift them. We're going to look from this show which will say this sticking out part of the door frame and the lintel against which the door closes. So from that point and going in but from that point and out a bias is going to be tar. And the way the understanding is that he's addressing that if there is not a place then the house is going to be tar. So it depends where is the stomach of this animal? If it's inside of the door stop it's considered like it's inside. But if the dog's neck is not big enough and therefore if the dog's neck is not big enough it will be tummy in the house. That's because the stomach of this is inside of an area that doesn't have the place is considered to be and therefore it will go into the body of this dog and it will go into the bias. And once it's in the house now there's an in the house which causes it to spread throughout the house. But if the area of the dog that has the is outside of this door stop it's considered like it's outside and therefore when the goes through the body of the dog it just goes up straight by cats. That's what the is thinking right now about what is. We'll see it's going to switch soon but that's what's going on here. If the of the house and the back end of the animal is outside the house a bias tar but if it's mouth is outside the house and it's inside the house a bias tar. How do you think this thing is going to be when we talk about it's going out through the back end and therefore it matters where it is. And now you may be thinking isn't this animal dead? exiting this animal in that way at all because the animal is after all is dead. So that is asked. And lastly been according to doesn't matter where the dog's mouth is and where it's hind quarters are doesn't matter if there's a it's always going to be tummy in the bias. But let's get back to the bias. My lover in the when started talking and addressing we understood that he was talking about when there was no Tefach tsavar this and the understanding was that because the tumah was by kash, Ushimamino tumah temunah is by kash. But this is connected to the braisa we said before and that according to Rebi Yossi, tumah temunah is not by kash. So we have a stira in shitas Rebi Yossi. Omar Rava, now Rebi Yossi achal ala tumah ketani. Rebi Yossi was telling us that we look at the airspace of the tumah, meaning the empty space where it is. So we look at the tsavar of this keilim. If it's a pesach tefach, it's going to be metameh the house no matter where the tumah is located. But if there isn't a pesach tefach, then it won't be metameh the house. And legabei that which Rebi Yossi said about where the tumah is located, inside or outside of the doorstop of the house, it's a different inyan. For Rebi Yossi betarti pulga. Rebi Yossi is arguing with Rebi Meir on two different fronts. Dekama leilei Rebi Meir, dekama ki yesh betzavara pesach tefach meivi es hatumah. Meaning according to Rebi Meir, you chas meaning the basar and the bones of the neck as part of that pesach tefach. But Rebi Yossi holds no, the actual area itself has to have that pesach tefach. That's one machlokes. U dekama Rebi Yossi al ha skupa kulah tameh. And on the other din, that the mouth of the dog can be anywhere on the skupa, the house will be tameh. It's also not true because miknegid ha shok if ulif neged ba yis tameh, but miknegid ha shok if ulif neged ba yis is going to be tahor. So the bottom line is from shitas Rebi Yossi, you don't see that tumah temunah is going to be by kash. So there is no stira. Rav Achai bar Rebi Yossi derava mastin lebeih dya. And Rav Achai bar Rebi Yossi moreh dis befeirish in shitas Rebi Yossi that Rebi Yossi omer, rayan es ha chalal ha tumah. So we never would have had this problem to begin with according to him. U man tan depalgei lei? So who's the tan that argues with the other shitas Rebi Yossi and holds that being mechalel over tumah and tumas magah is going to be two separate categories of tumah. Right? Because that's the whole beginning of this discussion, that magah and oilam was under the same kind of category. To which the Gemara now says, Rebi Shimon who? Detanya, because we have a braisa that says Rebi Shimon omer, turning over tumas meis, shalesh tumos parshos min habayis. There are three different kinds of tumah that are learned from tumas meis. Because we know there are three different ways to become tameh. There's oilam, magah, and massa. So zak there, there's me three different exceptions where you're going to have two of the three. Shtein bechul achas vishlishas ein bahen. There are three different kinds of tumah where you'll have two of the similarities to tumas meis and the third one's not. De'eilu hein and these are the three things that we're going to list. Molay Tarvid Rechev, the decomposed body that is now considered Rechev because a full spoons worth of this Rechev because as we know, it's just a spoonful of Rechev that makes the tumah go down. I'll spare you the singing. That's one din. The Etzem Kis'eira and the fact that the bone the size of a Sa'eira and the Golem Dafech which is a famous machlokes Rashi and Tosfos. Rashi holds it's going to be the top of the coffin, like the lid. There are other ideas in the Rishonim about being a Matzeiva. And now let's break it down. Molay Tarvid Rechev metamei bemassa ub'ohel but ainam metamei bemaga. As we talked about yesterday, if you touch the Molay Tarvid Rechev, you're only touching part of it because you can't touch all of it at once. It's all little particles. Veheichan maga? Where is there going to be maga? Where is there going to be a tumas mace al yedei maga amongst these three? Im achas mehen, it's going to be with the other two, meaning with the Etzem Kis'eira and with the Golem Dafech. Now now let's move to the next one. Etzem Kis'eira metamei bemassa with lifting it ub'maga and touching it. Ve'ainam metamei b'ohel. This little Etzem Kis'eira is not metamei b'ohel. Veheichan ohel? And where do you find tumas ohel amongst these three? It'll be im achas mehen with the other two, meaning the Tarvid Rechev and the Golem Dafech. And Golem Dafech metamei bemaga ub'ohel but ainam metamei bemassa. If you carry the Golem Dafech, you're not going to have such a din. Veheichan massa? And where do you find tumas massa? By the other three, im achas mehen with the other ones, Tarvid Rechev and Etzem Kis'eira. But what do you see from Shitas Rebbi Shimon? That even though you've got this Tarvid Rechev is metamei betumas ohel, it's not metamei tumas maga. So clearly, they're two different categories according to Rebbi Shimon. Ohel is not the same as maga. So it's connected Rebbi Yishmael. Okay. The Mishnah then said "Kules, neveila of a kules, a sheretz, etc." You have these bones that potentially would have marrow if they're closed off, if they're stumais, they're not going to be metamei. But if there's even a teeny little hole, that will be enough for the tumah to come out. Tano Rabbanan, "Benivlosa", the Torah says by a neveila, if you have a tumas maga with its dead carcass, it's going to be tamei. Which sounds like "V'lehavdil kules stuma". If it's a sealed bone, that's going to protect it. So if there's contact with the bone by itself, you're not going to be tamei. Now even though you think that the bone is a shamer for the marrow inside, the price is telling us that a marrow bone, if it's too moist, it's not going to transmit any tame because it's inaccessible. That marrow cannot be accessed. You have to fill a niqua. You might think, well, that would be the same even if there's a small hole. Tom would lay more and I get it. You have to ask your actually get to me that she actually get to me. It's all about the possibility of potentially getting to that marrow. So, I think tomorrow I'm going to be there with a buyer. I'll let me out of that's the case. An animal that's still in its own skin, meaning you haven't peeled off the actual after a shita. It shouldn't be met to me this animal because the air should protect contact with the bus or beneath it. Come on, who are we kidding? There are so many entry points to get to the bus or around the skin. I mean, Rashi says the mouth, the nose, the eyes. It's all please. It's plenty accessible. So, therefore, the air will be liable a proper shamer to also be tame. Cool you become a light to tame. What about a cool you which is a kidney of an avila? It's all enveloped by it by fat. So, it shouldn't convey any tame since that fat, which is not tame, should protect any contact of the bus or to these cool you to the kidney. To which over answers, talk as you come out with them and shut up and get out of there. There's lots of different little vessels and things that are connecting the kidney to the bus. Boy, you're actually going to get your level and get let's say somebody plan to make a hole in the coolest. Will I get to go but he didn't do it? My whole We do find by Tom and Tyra there's a music of my show but so my question is can we come out with the mice and dummy? I like how do we look at something when you plan to do it but you didn't do it? Is that going to create the access to the marrow inside the bone? So, how do you do it afterwards says my question is can we come out with the mice and dummy? And therefore, if you intend to make a hole in this bone but you didn't do so, that at some will actually convey to me. So, I have to mention bits of a share at some rule chemist Tyra. An egg of a share at some that there's an unborn embryo inside, it's going to be Tyra. Because you can't access it since it's inside the egg. However, in the same way it will be to me. And now here is a very interesting line from a mission which is Achbar Sh'chetz of Basar V'chetz of Adamah. Let's say you have this Achbar that's half Basar and half Adamah. What in the world does that mean? So, let's finish the Mishnah and we'll talk about it. Hanogeia B'basar Tamei, if you touch the Basar part, you're Tamei. But B'adamah, if you touch the earth part, you're Tahor cuz that's earth. Rebbe Yehudah Omer, Af Hanogeia B'adamah Shekeneged Habasar is going to be Tamei. It won't matter what part of you you're touching. Now, what in the world are we talking about here? So, the way Rashi understands this is a spontaneously generated kind of a creature and Rashi says it's night or me Adamah just like your maggot-infested food that is spontaneously generated. That was the way Rashi understood the science. The Rambam in the Perush Mishnayos says that people have seen such a creature like this and it exists. The Pharisee Shmuel brings from a some sort of a German scholar that has the name Link that is made that he saw such a creature in Egypt that the front part of the body is very well-formed and the back half of the body is still unformed earth. And ultimately, the entire creature will turn into Basar. And that this creature is an existing riot to my separation that that could be a Yesh Meain. And now you want to say, "Well, it's not Yesh Meain, it's Yesh Me Yesh." But yeah, but it's moving from the domain all the way up to a Chai that is a creation in of itself. Anyway, this is certainly a wild Mishnah and does spark the whole discussion about science versus Halacha and how we view it. [clears throat] But we are going to stop here and we'll pick it up with the Gemara Mirtza Shem tomorrow. >> [snorts]