Chullin Daf 125

All right, daf kuf, cough, hey, Wednesday's daf as we pick it up at the Mishnah at the very bottom of kuf kuf dal amud bet. Zot the Mishnah, kulis hamays, is a human bone which would have marrow in it from a dead body moving over tumat alef, ve kulis hamukdashin, and also one of these kinds of bones from a carbon that became nicer. So, it's a possul carbon which Rashi explains there's a tumat midorabanan. So, we're talking both about the tumat deraisah of a human bone as well as the tumat derabanan of this mukdashin that became possul. So, zot the Mishnah, hanageah bahen, if you touch them, bein stumim, bein nekubim, it doesn't matter whether or not they're sealed and the marrow is enclosed, or whether there's a hole in the bone, either way, tumay. Both are going to pass along the tumah, albeit that they're different kinds of tumah, as we mentioned, deraisah and derabanan. Kulis nevelah u'kulis sheretz, legabei these bones of a nevelah or a sheretz, so hanageah bahen stumim will be tahorim. If it's sosum and you can't access the marrow that's inside, since the bone itself for a nevelah and for a sheretz is actually not going to be tumah something, it's only going to be about the inside and the inside is closed off, so it's not shacht any kind of magah. But nekubim kol shehu, if there's even an itty-bitty little hole, metamei bimaga. That bone will be metamei bamasa, how do you know that the halachah is that a kulis that's sosum of a nevelah is not going to be metamei al yedei masa? Talmud lomar, the Torah puts together hanageah hanisay. So, the hekesh of both negiah and nisay, so we darshin esh shebol kol magah is bol kol masa. Lelo bol kol magah slo bol kol masa. The two of them are mamish connected because of this hekesh. Magah and masa will have the same halachah. So, since there's no tumat magah for the kulis that's sosum, so too there won't be any tumat masa. And zot the Gemara, when we talk about the human kulis, the Mishnah said you're going to be tumay. So, negiah and it sounds like only if there's going to be tumat magah, aval mahel loy. But we didn't list anything about mahel, about a tumat oil, that you won't be tumay. And Tosefos asks that really the Gemara could have also said that it's also mashma that tumat masa is not going to work. And according to Tosefta, it's because it's poshut to the Gemara that al yedei masa it will be metama from the kulis. But our Gemara is being medayek that there's no tumas oil over this kulis that you won't be tamei. So heichi dami? Practically Gemara, what's the case that the mishna is even talking about? Eedika k'zayis basar, if there's mamash dead person flesh on this kulis, on this bone, so boil nami letamei, you would have tumas oil cuz of course you have a k'zayis basar, because of the basar. So therefore it must be delika k'zayis basar, akarcha has to be there's no basar there. Now, if eedika k'zayis mayach mifnim, what if there's a k'zayis worth of marrow inside the bone? So then if that's the case, tuma ba'i kasfa ila, the tuma which is encased inside the bone kind of shoots out, that's how the tuma works, it goes out. So boil nami letamei, and therefore it should be tamei in in oil. So must be you have to say delika k'zayis mayach mifnim, must be the case we're talking about where there isn't even a k'zayis worth of marrow inside the bone. And lastly, v'im mayach mifnim mayla alucha mibachutz, if the metzius is that the marrow that's inside the bone will allow the basar to regenerate and grow back, is avramalya, that actually is the criteria for the din of an eiver, and therefore it should have tumas oil al the eiver. It's just a bone, but the bone will have a din of an eiver if it will regenerate based on the marrow that's inside. Rashi even goes so far as to say it's even if there's no actual marrow inside, it will still have a din of an eiver. Tosefta does not like that at all, but al kapana our Gemara is saying it has to be am rev Yehuda berei d'rebbe Chiya, as they say mayach mifnim ein amalya alucha mibachutz. It sounds like it's dictating the metzius, that the marrow inside of a bone will not allow the basar to regrow, and therefore the bone will not be considered an eiver, and therefore it will not be tamei al yedei tumas oil. But zok the Gemara bamayu kimtei, so what kind of a case are we talking about in our mishna? Delika k'zayis, that there is no k'zayis. So yachi v'mukdash, what are you going to say about the carbon that became nicer? Am ay metamei, why is it tamei? Because the Gemara is assuming that the cases are going to be parallel, just like that first case by the human bones not going to have the k'zayis basar and marrow, so too by the case of the kodshim that became pasul by the nicer. The suf rak the Gemara, coolest navel of a coolest sharitz, what are you going to say about those kinds of tuma? Ki nikfu a mayim metamu, when there is a little hole, we say that the tuma will come out. But why is that the case? The only way it could convey tuma is if there's a kizayis worth of this marrow inside. But you're telling me there isn't a kizayis. And for the Gemara like kasha, reisha de-ika kizayis but seifa de-ika kizayis. It changes the case as you read through the Mishna. But then the Gemara says "Amay kamashlan?" If that's the case, if there's no kizayis of basar and there's no kizayis of marrow, what is the point of this Mishna? Obviously it's only going to be tumi tumas maga because of the bone. That we know is an obvious halacha, that a bone is metama a day tumas maga. And if you tell me there's no basar and there's no marrow, so really there's no other chidush here. To which the Gemara says "Mili mili kamashlan." The Mishna is telling us a bunch of other halachas. Reisha kamashlan, the first part about the fact that the bone is going to be metama, telling us that the mayach may be bifnim may be al haruchim bachutz. That point that we made beforehand, that the marrow that would be inside is not going to cause the basar to regenerate and come back and therefore won't have any din of a nevela. And mukdashin, that second halacha my kamashlan, is that shimush nicer milsa hi, that that which is serving the shimush of the nicer is a milsa and therefore just like the nicer itself is going to be tumi, so too that etzem, that bone, that coolest which is being meshamesh the nicer also will have that same din. And therefore it will also have a tumas maga midirabanan just like the nicer itself. Di yomar Mari bar Avuha omar Rebbi Yitzchak, atzamos kodshim sheshimshi nicer metamin seya dayim. You are going to have that dirabanan dikatumas seya dayim. Hoyil venasa basar davara osar, since it became the basar, it's the support to those things that are tofel to it. And lastly nevela, what's the chidush that we're going to learn from nevela or sharitz? That aful gav de-ika kizayis, that even though there is a kizayis of marrow inside those bones, nikvein bileni kfulei, it has to have that little hole, you have to have be able to have the access to it in order for it to be metama. So that's all the first mahalach, understanding why there's no tumas oil by the human coolest in the beginning of the Mishna. Abaya omar a different shali, ayila mayach mebifnim may be al haruchim bachutz. It sounds like and therefore it should create that Thomas oil. But we're talking about where he scraped away part of the bone so it's no longer able to regrow the busser. And that's the reason why in this particular it won't have a Thomas oil. He scraped away part of that coolis along the arca along the length it'll be tamea. But if you do it around the circumference of the but if you do it around the center around the circumference it'll be tahera. The same thing is going to be like with a tree that if you take the bark away from around the circumference of the tree even if it's only a thin area but it's around the whole circumference it will kill the tree because somehow the nutrients that come from below in the ground are not going to go up the bark into the tree. But if you peel a whole strip on the vertically on the tree it'll just be fine because there's a way for it to get its nourishment. And now the third mission of we need to really we're talking about there is a of marrow inside the coolis of the person of the dead body of the human. And it will regenerate into a din of a proper so what did the mission mean when it says that it will create a magga which we thought was to the exclusion of oil? No, it means it means it will make it into an oil. And the mission is using the same terminology of for also for oil. And we're going to see soon in the both the magga and the oil can be used under the same terminology. For example if you're telling me that the marrow inside the bone can help regrow the busser out on the outside of the bone then coolis available coolis he didn't my why are they by those kinds of bones of the and the why are they shouldn't be cuz they should be looked at as an which actually should convey the even if it's completely and for the I'm already by I'm already I'm already you know what we're talking about in the mission we're talking about my we're talking about there's a of this dried out marrow that's rattling around inside the bone it's dried out and that kind of marrow can never regrow bust or outside the bone. So God may mace by the halacha of a dead person to my boy cast for oil. The tumor of that marrow shoots out of the bone, goes out, and now that bone is going to be metamer via oil. But in the veil, even if it's kosher since that marrow is all dried out, we don't look at the bone as a dinner of an aver because it's all dried out and won't regenerate. And therefore Nick for in if it has a hole in it, it will be metamer the whole Nick for lay if there's no hole, it will not be metamer. All right, but getting back to that idea and she just began and that had negare refers to Thomas oil. I'm already oven we tame already a silver oven after the nominee to Nina. We actually learned this in a mission in the third pair of oil ice that we're going to put together both Thomas Maga and Thomas oil because it says how they get the highest if you touch a hot desire is of a dead body or my hill all hot desire is at the same time. You're my hill maybe you hold your other hand in the air above a different hot desire is of mace thereby making an oil over it. I hot desire is my hill all love or let's say another hot desire is was above him cuz it was sticking out a piece of wood or something like that. Maybe it was sticking out a piece of wood that was sticking outside the wall or actually suggests a locker is timer. Now you have a bishop in a hot tomorrow. It makes sense if you're going to tell me that Thomas Maga and Thomas oil are going to be under one kind of shame, one kind of category of tumor. So therefore mission of a hot mix tariff. That's why these two independent hot desire is and can be mixed tariff and make the guy tell me only a matter of trade show me the new. If they're two different kinds of categories, so me mix tariff. They wouldn't be able to be mixed tariff and be put together to make tumor. Well, that's not cuz we learned that cloud kosher machine method mixed tariff for timer. But mission of a shame as if it has two different shame as it can be timer. So here you see a mocker for a bishop in and from this mission in the third pair of oil ice. Freak the Gamora LMI. What do you want to say the hot tomorrow that Maga and oil is the same category? But in a safer, the same mission says I will turning over to my base. How they get the hot desire is if you are Maga with a hot desire is of dead body. The double rocker my hill all love the oil hot desire is and something else is my hill over a different hot desire is. The oil is your timer. Now we hot tomorrow if you're telling me that Thomas Maga and Thomas is a single kind of a shame to Thomas, so I might have this mission before Well, then you don't need to make this. You have a problem with these missions so I'm the moral we're talking about a unique situation in that earlier mission where there's an oil over a very small area between two different between two different like pieces of furniture. There's not even a single available open space of a So an oil that's made over this very small space is considered like it's actually touching that source of itself. The cooling and therefore that kind of oil is really a because there's not that in between. You may remember this from the about that the can jump over the to go see the and the wanted to know what the was and the reason was because a yes I say most coffins have that empty inside and that's why it creates an oil inside and the is not there's a that I guess the nose of the dead body is right up against the roof of that coffin and there's not that and therefore the will go be by I remember seeing in the somewhere about how we allowed to go why isn't it and I'm pretty sure that the answer that the gave is because the is not in the which is one of the qualifications for being All righty. So based on the way we're explaining this mission that we're talking about where there's no that it it no longer is a for which is the reason we brought in the first place. So now we need another another source to show us the idea of putting both and together. So the where do we find such a source? Let's say you have this spoonful of decomposed corpse dust. So the is the over over oil. Now let's break that down. I get a massa oil. Again, if you're carrying the whole spoon of the oil or the entire oil is inside of an oil because the entirety is being carried. The whole entirety is inside the oil. Well, then again, but you tell me I touched the actual oil. I touched this dust. Well, I never You never touched the entire thing. You touched one little aspect of it. Remember, it's made up of lots of little pieces. So, why is he telling me? And therefore, you don't have a sheer. Well, my is my oil. When that mission is saying in oil, it must have meant my oil. Well, practically, that can't be because it's in that list says oil. Two different things. Okay, so you know what? Any roof that's within a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. All you need to talk about an oil where there wasn't a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. All you need to talk about an oil where there wasn't a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. All you need to talk about an oil where there wasn't a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. All you need to talk about an oil where there wasn't a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. All you need to talk about an oil where there wasn't a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. All you need to talk about an oil where there wasn't a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. All you need to talk about an oil where there wasn't a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. All you need to talk about an oil where there wasn't a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. is schlepping the oil from the oil to the person. That kind of oil is not considered oil. How do I know that according to the mission if you make the oil, we look at like oil. It's not because it says in the mission according to the mission if ropes that would hold the bed together or the bars on a window, they create a roof between the lower floor and an upper floor. It's not considered oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. All you need to talk about an oil where there wasn't a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. All you need to talk about an oil where there wasn't a roof that's within a roof that's within a roof of the dead body oil. That is called oil. That's what the mission is talking about the oil. floor and an upper floor. So layla hatitza to the other side so this way if you have a mace on one side that tuma will not go to the other side. So in other words, if the mace is on the bottom floor of the house and the person is on the upstairs and he puts his hand opposite one of the holes in this mesh work, he's not going to be tame. That's enough to create that like invisible wall. Parson al panai mace of air, but let's say the ropes were spread out in the air space over the dead body and not on the clay itself and the halacha will be a guy connected to a neck of his tummy. If you touch an area opposite the hole where there is no nothing blocking, you'll be tame. So like a negative neck of a guitar. So now let's understand this. Hey dummy, what's this second halacha? You're laying on top of the clay telling me that these ropes or window bars were spread out within a tefach of the dead body. So like a negative neck of a guitar. Why in the case of when it's not opposite the hole is he going to be tame? Mace of clay that's like the actual dead body in its own taharichin in its own clothing. And the halacha is a mace of clay that's tame. A dead body inside of its own clay does convey a tuma to any person or clay that's above that mace because it itself becomes the source of tuma. So so too here also, this mace should convey tuma to anything above this mesh work even if you're not opposite the empty negative space. Even if you're not connected one of the open spaces. So a lot of tefach. So what do you want to say that the price is not talking about a case where the net was spread out more than a tefach above the mace? The hair it is. The clay is negative and still Rebbe Asi is talking about this as one who is being negative. So you see according to Rebbe Asi, even an oil that's more than a tefach above the mace is considered tumas mago. So if I say according to Rebbe Asi, tumas mago and tumas oil is the same just like and there we have now your microphone Rebbe Asi. I'm Rebbe Asi. I don't like that. Really the price is talking about a case where they were spread out within a tefach of the mace. But the clay and this that you said mace of clay that you're looking at these ropes like it's the clay like it's that case of the mace of clay not a good analogy because mace of clay is by the case of the mace in its clothing a person makes that clay for the dead body and therefore it's looked at as part of the dead body. But the clay but these ropes, that's not the same thing. High low mace of clay. You don't look at it the same way. The ksus is designed for the dead body and therefore a person's me vatli. The rabbi gross discussed the issue of whether or not is the person intentionally being me vatli or is that just the metzius of it and therefore it happens that way. He made he brought a machlokes about how to understand this idea. Why can't the dead body be like tuma tumuna, like hidden tuma, which actually goes through whatever is covering it and shoots up? It's like the person inside the coffin where there's no place tefach, it just goes straight up. So it must be the braisa is talking about where those ropes were more than a tefach above the dead body. Exactly like Rava had said. To which the Gemara says, "No, cuz ksav R' Asi, tuma tumuna in a beka." It won't go up. This classification of tuma tumuna is hidden tuma, it's not going to go up. And therefore in the case of an ami, the braisa can't be talking about where the case where the ropes are within a tefach of the dead mace. And we're going to stop here and pick it up with the min hatemara for Thursday's daf.