Chullin Daf 119

All right, daf kuf yud ches, this is Thursday's daf. Let's pick it up seven lines from the bottom of kuf yud ches amud beis. Amar Rav, ein yad l'fachos mik'zayis. There is no such thing as a yad for any type of an oichel that has less than a k'zayis of its own volume. So, if it has more than a k'zayis, the yad will have a din of a yad, but otherwise it won't. V'ein shomer l'fachos mik'pul. And you don't have a din of a shomer, as we said, that thing that's protecting what's inside, for anything less than a pul, which is a kind of a bean. Now, Rashi over here by learns the kasha that what are we even talking about if it's not the size of a beitzah, then it won't be metamei anything at all. As we had spoken out that for something to be metamei something else, it needs to have the shiur of a beitzah. The Ramah himself, when he brought this halacha, says that something that's very small can also can become tamei, it just can't be metamei something else, even if it's smaller than the size of a beitzah. Rashi by else in other places, even though there seems to be some stiras in Rashi's, Rashi's shitah seems to be that there is no cheilek between it becoming tamei or being metamei something else, the shiur is always k'beitzah. So, what's the nafka minah whether or not you have a yad for this thing if it's less than a k'zayis? And Rashi says this is because you're being metzareif other things together with it. And the Rishonim struggle with this because if there are other things with it, are they touching? Are they connected? How's that working? So, Tosefos has issues with Rashi, and that has to be worked out over here. Al kol panim, Rav says there is no yad for anything less than a zayis, and there's no shomer for anything less than a pul. B'Yachad namer, now, yeish yad l'fachos mik'zayis v'eish shomer l'fachos mik'pul. So, whether or not we're going to give the din of yad and shomer for less than the respective shiurim of k'zayis and pul is this machlokes. Nafke minah masei vei, we're going to ask from this braisa, d'shtei atzamos v'alein shnei chatzoyeisim. Let's say you have two atzamos, two bones. Now, the halacha is by a bone, there's no tumas ohel, it's only going to be tumas magah. If there's basar on the bone, well, then that basar is the meis, and therefore it will have tumas ohel. So, let's say you have shtei atzamos v'alein shnei chatzoyeisim. You have meat on these bones, but only a half a zayis of basar on each one of these bones. V'hichnis rosheihem hashniyim l'bayis. And let's say now what's inside the house is not the basar part, it's the bone part. So, you're sticking in these bare parts of the bones into the house, v'habayis machal alein, such that the now house is being machal. Halacha is it by which would seem to imply we're being metzaraif that kazayis basar that's not in the house, which means that the bone is acting as a yad. It's like a handle for that basar. Yehuda ben Nakusa omer mishum Rebbi Yaakov omer metzaraif lekazayis. How could two bones that only have a chatzi zayis of basar on each one be metzaraif to comprise a complete kazayis of basar? Meaning Yehuda ben Nakusa has no problem with a bone being a yad, but he's only been masking that it blives the yad if there's a kazayis basar on there, and there isn't. There's only chatzi zayis on each one of these two bones. they metzaraif to make the tumas oil? Moving over to mem aleph. Now from the Gemara, based on this braisa, the reading of this braisa, for Rav, how can Rav chayev a may'ucha how can he zitzan this braisa so he's not being soister the tanoyim? Right, you got two tanoyim, you got the tana kama of this braisa, and you got this Yehuda ben Nakusa. Who is Rav going to be going like? Ee be out if you're telling me that this has a halachic status of a yad to the kasha rasha, because the rasha of the braisa says that the house is tamei, but lechara there's no yad because it's less than a kazayis according to Rav. And ee be shomer, if you tell me it's not a halacha of a yad at all, so it's a halacha of a shomer, that it's being shomer the marrow inside the bone. So then kasha safer, because Yehuda ben Nakusa says this house is not going to be tamei, but lechara according to Yehuda ben Nakusa it should blive a shomer if you're telling me that we're reckoning with shomer over here. He's not going to argue with the shomer the halacha, it's bigger than a pile. Now it's interesting Rashi brings a kasha that you might have on this Gemara that lechara we talked about beforehand, if there's basar not connected the part of the ar, it won't be a shomer. The shomer is only acting where the basar is on the other side of that same ar. Shayla is, here we're saying the basar is not on the same part of this bone, so lechara it shouldn't act as a shomer for that part of the basar. But Rashi's machlokes of Rebbi Shimon ben Gamliel by the basar on the other side of the ar, if it's not opposite where the ar is, then it's not really protecting the ar. But by a bone, the marrow is going to be protected by the bone even if the marrow is not connected that space in the bone. Imagine like an apple peel or an orange peel. If you remove part of that peel, the other part of the pear will still get rotten because it's exposed. It's an all or nothing kind of a thing. So the marrow of a bone is considered being nishmar by the entirety of the bone even if that part of the exposed bone is not connected to the marrow. Okay, we have a problem with Rav Shita. How is he going to understand this brisa? And for the Gemara, beshima or biyada, it can go either way. If it's biyada, how does Rav understand the rasha? But who the omer kihu de ben akusa, no problem. Rav holds like the seifa of the brisa. If it's beshima, it's also not a problem because of who the omer katana kama. Rav can say that there is a shima for even something as small as this poel because he's going like the katana kama who says the house is going to be tamei. Now, Rav Nachman, what will he say? Omer kulo biyada. He'll say the whole brisa is talking about a yad. But who the omer katana kama, Rav Nachman is saying like the halacha of the katana kama rules that there is a yad for less than a kizayis. And according to Rav Nachman, we're not talking about a shima. It's all about the yad. Tashma, Rav Yehuda Omer, kules, if you have this kules which is a thigh bone, big bone, she yesh alaha kizayis basar, so then the halacha is as long as there's a kizayis basar on that bone guy rare is kulo tuma. That basar makes the whole bone shayach l'kabel tuma. And as Rashi explains, if this kules that has that zayis basar on it, if it would be together with a bayov achlin and a sheretz would touch it, the whole thing would become tamei. So, Rashi's bringing the same kind of kasha that really still the shima is kabea. However, acherim omrim, and acherim is a reference to shitas Rav Meir. As the Gemara in Chulin 109 b says, afilu ein alaha ela k'poel, even if there's no more than the shima of the poel guy rare is kulo tuma. That basar on the kules will be garer the whole thing for tuma. Okay, that's the brisa. Now, but for Rav, I have a my mikla. How's he going to understand it? If it's biyada, we're talking about a yad that this kules is acting as a yad, then kasha seifa because the acherim say that it will be garer even if it's k'poel. And according to Rav, there is no yad less than a zayis. And if it's beshima, kasha rasha because according to Rav, even something k'poel is going to be a shima. Rav Yehuda says it needs to be a zayis. And for the Gemara, if it's beshima or biyada, but who the omer kulo Rav Yehuda, and Rav was saying that there's no yad less than a zayis. He's going like shitas Rav Yehuda. Or if it's beshima, I think the brisa is going like a shima and it's k'acherim that you have a din of a shima as long as there's a size of a k'poel. Okay, that works out like Rav. But now, Rav Nachman, Omer kulo beshima. The whole brisa is going with a shima dikahalacha, not a yad halacha. But who the omer k'acherim, Rav Nachman is saying that there is a shima less than a zayis. He's going like shitas acherim. Rav Nachman, Omer acherim, you tell me Rav behaim and holds like the aherem. How can pile ko amri? The aherem is saying that the kaylus has to have at least a kapaylus volume of basar in order to be able to be mekabel tumah. Where Rebbe Yochanan said that even if it's less than a kapaylus can be blib al shaimer. And for the gemara, I did the komer tana kama shiura. Since the tana kama meaning she does Rebbe Yehuda said it has to be a zayis, he gave a shiyur. So komri and who nami shiyur. So also the aherem said it has to be kapaylus. But really the truth is any amount even smaller than that kapaylus will make this kaylus shiyach to be tamei al shaimer. Amar Rava, they can only the bishaim of skin and not a yad because the tiny kaylus, the braisa is talking about a kaylus which usually has marrow that's protected by the bone itself. So shma mina, based on this we can establish that the braisa is talking taka about a shaimer and not a yad. Itmar, Rebbe Chanina Amar, zehu shiyur. This shiyur of a kapaylus, this is the smallest shiyur of oichel that could qualify for a shaimer according to the aherem. But Rebbe Yochanan Amar, ain zeh shiyur. This is not the smallest. Practicing more, ain zeh shiyur. You tell me this is not the smallest. But how can tana kapaylus, the braisa says that the aherem specifically say that on this kaylus had the kapaylus of basar. Now the gemara says the same thing by Rebbe Yochanan. I did the komer tana kama shiura meaning she does Rebbe Yehuda mentioned a zayis, komri and who nami shiura. But really they hold that any amount of basar would make this bone to shiyach to become tamei al the halacha of shaimer. Tashma, now let's ask from the mishna in the first perek of maseches uktsin cuz the mishna is telling you that if you empty out a sharvit as a pod of peas, that if you empty it out it's no longer mekabel tumah. But if you leave even that single bean inside, then the sharvit will be mekabel tumah. Sir Belozer ben Azarya metahar Rebbe Shmuel pile. Sir Belozer ben Azarya holds this sharvit of the pile even if it has a pile in it. When will it be tamei? Mishael kitniyos. And it will only be tamei if it's small beans. Why? May they should write to the mashmishan. Because by the case of the small beans, he wants the sharvit. He wants this protection on it. He wants the pod. So this way the beans are not being exposed and touched. So what do we see that even a single smaller bean will blib for the halacha of a shaimer. This is against Rav that says that there is no shaimer for anything smaller than the pile. And for the gemara, kedamar Rav Achbari the Rava, the kulcha umishum miyad. The mishna is not talking about the actual part itself, but the core, the stem. And that's what the shove it in the mission is talking about where there are several of these pods attached to it. And that stem can become tummy also the whole of yard. It blames a yard to the beans. So I can only we can also say that the core of me show me out and therefore my mom what do we mean but touch me shin that you want to use its service meaning you want to use its utility for holding it as a stem cuz you can handle them by holding the stem. All right, touch my the tone of the Arab is small alcohol Zara Zara a show you Zara a is possible that we keep on mentioning which teaches us that you need the seven liquids in order to be creating a hash show for Thomas. So I should be all the mighty and all cause there is zero teaches us that the way the people handle with seeds which means he typically pasta so Arabic lipasa a dose of a clipasa. All right, that's our marker for a shimer that it's mix star if with oil clan to make the sheer for Thomas. What do we see from here that even by an Adasha which is much smaller than the pile is going to apply the whole of the whole of the shimer which the Gamora answers barrier shiny. The Adasha is more harsh of it's a barrier and therefore it's going to apply like a shimer even though it's volume is less than the size of the pile. But you have a shia turning over to the base. Can a shimer motion start with can you put together two shimer with the oil clan that they are being shimer to be with all of the shimer Thomas so I can what are we talking about e lay my bag of God if one shimer is on top of the other one and both of them are protecting a single kind of an oil clan so then only shimer of God shimer is there even a music of a shimer on top of another shimer I have what's not in the mission in the second pack of books and says that I am a shall I sleep above what so there are three different peels of an onion with three different can you see the inner most one bench lay my bench can do is mix the and so is the middle one is mix the can do and mix the when it's intact it's going to be mix star for the Thomas but when it's torn it's not and the outer most peel in the onion being can you see there won't be any dinner of a shimer that's going to be on top of another shimer you see the mission in that mission. What is the even talking about after the Gamora shimer can you come and boil it you can talk about the kind of shimer that you divide into two different sections that each part of the shimer was only protecting a portion of that oil clan so can you see the way the way the mix star maybe since each one is protecting independent parts we're not going to put them together I do not the way the way the day the way the way the way the day the way the day will be Mr. and that is why he had a child. Bring a right in that same mission that we learned about in the first paragraph of that when you empty the pot of peas it's not if you leave one bean inside it will be there will be a loser in the why they should write some in so since the are serving as a shamer for these beans they're going to be with the beans for but each is not going to be the size of a bear even together with the beans so must have meant that you're talking to several together so what do you see that when two are protecting a small amount of food they can be for the share of we're not talking about the actual pod but we're talking about the stems and it's not working out working out it means you're holding it with their try to bring another riot the very alcohol show you can which is the for individual kernels of wheat or the or the are certainly not going to be a worth even with the so must have been that you're talking about the two different can be because they're each protecting different parts now before the is warns that we could have said like it did on the bottom of the that it's a we said we don't want to say it's a and we know why it's because only makes something but this is what is to do with being a reason something can be and the truth is it's hard even understand what is talking about how could you even entertain it that you need to say it's a first place not even a is an enormous so says that the reason why would make a difference is because according to the if it's a you don't need the share of a and therefore you don't need to come out of the first place which is an enormous if you think about it that's the and you can listen to discusses that but anyway we have this question from about the it's right because it's we're talking about the not we can say in the same way that the is talking about the we can say in the same way that the is talking about the that spine in the whole ear of grain and the halacha it's going to become totally because of the halacha of shomer. And all the different parts of this whole spine of this ear are considered a single shomer for the kernels because each one is totally on the other one. Now the gemara needs to clarify this because Bishlam Eliyahu Tzeirei Letatei Yosa, I get how the upper kernels are going to totally on the lower kernels because if the lower ones would fall off the upper ones would also fall off right afterwards. Ela Betatei Yosa, my Tzeirei Eliyahu Yosa, why do the lower ones need the upper ones? But the gemara because Bechad Dara, they're all in one row and therefore they collectively make one shomer since all the ones in the same row are certainly going to be totally on the other ones and therefore the braisa is telling us that these kernels are going to comprise the shomer of a bayah legabei achal chistama. Right the gemara Meika Kebel Achal Bechad Dara, do you ever have so much you the metzius doesn't bear out. You're not going to have an entire bayah's worth on one row of kernels. The gemara says yeah you could Becheiti Deshimon Ben Shetach where the gemara tells us in Chof Gimmel says that there was so much rain that the wheat kernels grew as big as Klayis and therefore it was Shayach to have a bayah's worth even in one row. Right the gemara Ashir Dos Lo Chi then Chada Chita Nami, Becheiti Deshimon Ben Shetach you could talk about a single wheat kernel because it was so big if you're willing to say that we're talking about the kinds of Chitin from Shimon Ben Shetach. All right, I got to board so we're going to pick this up once I'm on the plane. Okay, finishing up the daf here. Goofa, let's get back to the braisa that we started today's daf off with Shnayim Atzamos Al Layin Shtei Chatzois Zeisim, so you have these atzamos, these bones where there is only less than a zayis on each one. Deich Nish Reshaim Shnayim Lebayis and the bone part without the basar went into the house. Now Bayis Maleh Layin Am Bayis Tamei, but Yehuda Ben Dekusah Omer Mishum Rabbi Yaakov Chayach Shnayim Atzamos Mishum Chof Dekusah cannot be Mishum Dekusah therefore the house is Tahor. So both the Tanna Kamma and Yehuda Ben Dekusah are Maskim that if there would be a Kazayis that atzem, that bone would serve as a Yad to be Machnis Tumah into the house. Omer Reish Lakish Av Dem, so Reish Lakish Lo Shano Ela Atzem, it's only legabei the bone to have a Yad. Aval Nima Lo Havei Yad, but if it would only be a Nima which is a hair that would not be a Yad because if you pick up something based on a Nima that's attached to it it would just tear right off. So the hair can be a shomer because it can protect the skin as hair protects skin, but it cannot act as a yad. However, A svara of shlakish from the mishna coming up in five blot. Or she is a lecha k'zayis basar. If you have or this hide of the animal, it has a zayis of meat attached to it and a gered t'siv a yaitzei mimenu or someone touches a piece of meat that sticks out from it. Meaning there's a k'zayis of meat in one part of that or of the animal and then there's a another smaller piece that's less than a k'zayis sticking out from it. That's the t'siv a yaitzei mimenu u've sa'iras she k'negedo or a piece of hair that's growing from the hide opposite that piece of basar. Al achas it's t'mei. So my love mishum yad l'cheir. This whole thing is working off dinei yads. You see that even the nima, the hair itself is going to blot a yad. So which Rish Lakish says no, let me shaimer. That halacha of a nima is not working off yads, it's working off shaimer. Affecting more of a nima shaimer gabi shaimer. Because now you're talking about a nima on top of the or. So the or is a shaimer, the nima is a shaimer. Now you have shaimer gabi shaimer. If the Gemara The hair goes through the or into the basar beneath. So it's a shaimer of the actual basar, not a shaimer on top of another shaimer. How do we ever write t'fillin on or on parchment? It's a t'muma l'cha. You need to have a halacha of k'siva t'muma, a perfect kind of a writing. Meaning without any breaks in the letters. You can't use parchment where there are holes. So now if you're telling me that the nima punches through the or, it goes into the basar. So you have gazillions of little holes. This is perforated or. So that's not considered k'siva t'muma. Which the Gemara says no. Mishum t'mei say the Amora'im and Rava and Rav Nachman talk about forgot what they say in Eretz Yisrael. They call nika of shadiya over a loving a naked. Any hole that is so small that the ink wouldn't sink into that hole, it's over a loving, it's ain't a naked. Not a hole that would make that cloth considered not to be a k'siva t'muma. And we're going to save the second tairutz of the Eibuy Eima for tomorrow's daf. And we'll stop here for now.