Bechoros Daf 7

All right, Duff Zion. This is Friday's Duff. We're just finishing up the Gamara from yesterday. The last thing we were discussing was the interesting Gamara about how you know it's mutar to drink milk, even though it's yotzei from a living animal. Now the Gamara's going to pick it up seven lines from the bottom of the amud l'ma'aseh the fact that it says twice in the Torah Gamol. And we had said yesterday that Rebbi Shimon learns the second time of Gamol that if a cow gives birth to a velad that looks like a Gamol, it's not going to be kosher. While the rabbonan used that Gamol Gamol to tell you that the milk of a Gamol is assur. But now that you've used both times as Gamol, so the Gamara shafan shafan arneves arneves chazir chazir, all those doublings up of those beheima teme'a'os, l'charei hu d'hasu, is it coming from the same kind of drasha? Because l'charei you don't need him. So why does it double the lashon of those kinds of animals? Elu l'cheina tanya, the braisa says l'ma nishnu ba'beheima, why did the Torah specifically list those animals that are kosher and not kosher? Mipnei ha'shasua, because of the specific creature called the shasua, which is a not kosher animal that has two spines and two backs. So because of the fact that shasua was mentioned in sefer Devarim, the Torah went ahead and listed the ones that were in parshas Shmini already. U'vai if it's why was a repetition with the birds? Mipnei ha'ra'ah, which is another kind of bird that was listed in sefer Devarim. So once we're already acknowledging that, so gamol gamol nami l'charei d'hasu, that's why it repeated the word gamol and not because of the drashos beforehand. So it's really a kasha. So why are we only specifically darshaning the gamol when we're not darshaning the other words? To which the Gemara says kol heicha d'ikla midrash darshinan. You have the opportunity to darshan the extra gamol. So even though it doesn't necessarily need to be darshaned because the other words are repeated because of the reason the Gemara just said. But l'ma'aseh whenever we can darshan it, we'll darshan it. Tanu rabbanan, the braisa says Rachel sh'ildemin Aiz, or Aiz sh'ildemin Rachel. But they're nidmin to the other kind of beheima tehora that's chayavim b'bechira. The halacha is it's b' tora min habechira, because it's nidmin. But vimyaish l'meixta simanim, if it has its mother's eyes or whatever kind of features it might have, then chayaves, he'll be chayav in hilchos bechira. Rebbi Shimon omer, it's not going to be ad she'yei reisha v'rubai d'mei l'ima. There's a new halacha that it won't have dinei bechor until reisha v'rubai is similar to the mother. Not just a feature that looks like its mother. Reisha v'rubai. Na'i ibai l'hu, l'achila klap hilchos achila. Rebbi Shimon reisha v'rubai i'lai. Is Rebbi Shimon also going to have that same requirement of reisha v'rubah for hilchos achilah or is that only for hilchos bechorah? Because l'inyan bechorah it says ach bechor shor that we darshin he who shor u'bechor shor. There's a kak podah specifically by hilchos bechor that the mother and its blood have to both be that same min. Aval achilah, gamal hu d'amar Rachmana d'asar. L'gabei issur, the Torah said it has to be the camel that's assur. But ha, this nidmeh mudneh mutant animal moving over to madal is ishtani m'gamal. It's not a camel which is assur. And therefore shappar dami, maybe therefore it could be kosher. I don't know or maybe there's no difference between hilchos bechorah and hilchos achilah and R' Shimon will assur it across the board provided it's not reisha v'rubah like the mother species. So to that the Gemara brings a toshema. Let's bring a raya from a braisa l'gabei the shaila of understanding sheitas R' Shimon. Beheima tehora she'aldah min beheima teme'ah. A kosher animal gave birth to an animal that looks like a not kosher animal. The halacha is it's assur b'achilah. However, v'im dami reisha v'rubah l'eimai chayav b'bechorah. So what do you see from that? Sh'ma mina l'achilah nami boyi R' Shimon reisha v'rubah. Vice ties, it's all the same halacha that R' Shimon requires a reisha v'rubah to be dami to the mother. Which the Gemara says no, lie. It's l'bechorah dafka. It's only l'gabei hilchos bechorah that you need to have so much to be dami. And they cannot be because the braisa seems to say that. D'kashavka l'achilah. It starts off talking about achilah and then it leaves that. B'kam lei ach bechor. So the sh'ma mina l'bechorah hu d'bar R' Shimon reisha v'rubah. Aval achilah, lie. But the Gemara says no, it's not true because l'eilam eima l'achilah nami boyi. Really R' Shimon also requires reisha v'rubah to be dami to the mother. U'v'bechorah is it sh'chich? There's a special chiddush that we need to say this by bechor. Because al k'vada d'chamina hu v'seiv ach bechor shor. That special meat that it has to be ach he who shor u'bechor shor. So v'lo tishgi l'gabei reisha v'rubah. Maybe that's not even enough. Maybe reisha v'rubah is not even enough for him and therefore adika kula, you might not have a din bechor. K'mashma lan, the braisa is telling us a chiddush that despite the ach bechor shor, all you need is reisha v'rubah. All right, let's try again. Toshema. The braisa says es zeh lo yisachlu mimalei hagero u'mifrasei ha'parsa. You have to have the requirement of chewing cud and having split hooves. And the camel only does one of them because it only chews its cud but it does not have split hooves and we dash in from this one is this kind of blood that looks like a camel and not like its mother cow. That's when you're not allowed to eat but if it has one of the simanim like its own mother so it has that dimyon that would make it mutar and give me an example of the kind of animal that has one of the simanim like its mother. It's an animal that looks like a nutcracker animal that's born from a kosher animal the father animal is also a kosher animal. So that line sounded pretty confusing but you got both parent animals are kosher animals giving birth to a non-kosher looking animal. In such a case it'll be mutar because of the fact that it's so similar to its mother. So even if it was from a non-kosher animal second so that rabbin of the saying about and tell us that you're not allowed to eat the animal that's the Rabbi Eliezer said it's coming to add more to something that was otherwise and what would that be that would be tell me an animal that looks like a non-kosher animal even though the father animal was a non-kosher animal and maybe it's not that way the father was a kosher animal tell me sure because that's all the background now the currently tell me the price is saying the animal that looks like a non-kosher animal it's calling it and that sounds just like because according to it's going to be to eat so it's the animal that looks like a non-kosher animal but yet it still says that as long as it has one of the simanim one of the characteristics like its kosher mother it'll be okay. So what do you see that according to Shimon even a single siman a single characteristic is enough to make it and you don't have to have to which the is no I like the fact that you found a that has a similar does not mean he's exactly in line with he only holds like him with one way and not the other way but if there was another way this went down and And they for empthasize the kasha about Reb Shimon in a different way. Because here's how they asked it. Eburay min atumay. The bryce is talking about a kosher animal that was nisabra from a non-kosher animal. But frek the Gemara mim abra. Can it even work? Can a kosher animal conceive from a non-kosher animal? I think not. But how am I Reb Shimon Levi elam ain misaberas lay tumayim min atahar, lay taharim min atumay, lay gasim min adaka, lay dakim min agasa, lay beheymim min chaya, lay chaya min beheymim. They don't mix and match. Chutz mi Rebbi Eliezer umachlokusay. Except for Rebbi Eliezer and the one who argues with him. Shahayu imrim chaya misaberas mi beheymim. They said that a beheymim could conceive from a chaya. That's the sugia in Iyan Tisin Chulin by the sugia of chaya. Viomer Rebbi Yirmiya. And Rebbi Yirmiya says over there like I made that shaila. That the abar mikulit ben para. When the bryce is talking about an animal born from a kosher animal that was nisaber from a non-kosher animal, it's talking specifically about the kosher mother that was nisabra from a kulit, from a non-split hoofed animal, which was a ben para. We're talking about generations of messed up animals here. Vi aliba Rebbi Shimon Kahama. He was saying this like sheetas Rebbi Shimon. So just understanding the bryce when it says that the father animal is a tumaya, it doesn't mean a real non-kosher animal. It means an animal that has no split hooves like a camel that was born from a cow or a kosher animal. Because the bryce is going like sheetas Rebbi Shimon that an animal is going to be usser because it doesn't have the tzura and the simanim of a kosher animal. So it's not like the cases of Rebbi Shimon Levi where it's these kinds of minims can't impregnate the other ones. And so the Gemara vi ko amar aval at the eichel hababa simanecha. The bryce is still bottom line says you're allowed to eat from an animal that only has one of the simanim of its kosher mother. But the Gemara ends off by saying hay tana savar like kavasa vi chada vi palga vi chada. So it's no raya. So the Gemara lemaymar Rebbi Eliezer savar zev zegarim mutar. Whenever we talk about the father's input over here, it sounds like according to sheetas Rebbi Eliezer that zev zegarim is mutar because it came al yiday multiple sources. And therefore it's mater the usser part. But Rebbi Yeshua savar zev zegarim is usser because Rebbi Yeshua holds that the vlad is going to be usser unless both its father and its mother are kosher. But vi ayim kashya minayhu lechara where the bryce is seems pakarit vlad trayfa. That means the vlad of a trayfa mother where it came from non-treif father, a healthy father. Rebbe Eliezer like of Lagabe Misbeach and Rebbe Shimon of Lagabe Misbeach. So, it seems like it's here. This braisa has the opposite sheet. The Gemara says, "No, it's not really a kasha because be'alma Rebbe Eliezer Zev Zagar is takka assur." But, bishani hacha, by the case of where the mother's kosher and the father's not kosher, im kein nisht of krov sekh v'osim v'izim. If the Torah wanted to say this kind of an animal was assur, it should have just said a sekh and a krovsim and the izim just should have listed it once, but said the sekh lamali, why does the Torah repeat it? Shma mina sekh mikol makom. So, it's a special gzeiras hakasuv over here, not that it's a shas rule of zev zagar is assur. And that's all Rebbe Eliezer. For Rebbe Yeshua Marla, no, be'alma zev zagar is really muttar, but here why is it going to be assur over here? Because v'hacha im kein nisht of krov shar kesef v'oez in lashon yachid, krovsim v'izim lamali. Shma mina uv kvisim imah kvasa. And because of that gzeiras hakasuv really special over here. Now, if we're learning the sugia properly, we'd spend more time with the Tosfos that differentiates between zev zagar and kishui l'zeira av, which have two different implications in different sugias. Apparently, the Pri Chadash that we mentioned yesterday in Machalos Assuros Gimel Tes also discusses this chilluk. Ayin Sham. Toshi Ma. Let's try to bring another raya l'gabei shitas Rebbe Shimon about the achila of this animal. Rebbe Shimon imer, "Gomel gomel shnei p'amim. Echad gomel anaylas min hagomel v'echad gomel anaylas min hapara." V'im reisha v'rubba d'eima muttar b'achila. And here you have a b'feirish. If it's reisha v'rubba like its mother, then it will be muttar b'achila. So, shma mina l'achila nami boy. Rebbe Shimon reisha v'rubba. Shma mina. Pretty straightforward. Okay, then the mishna says yeitzei min hatamei v'chulu that yeitzei is going to be not kosher. So, shma mina Rebbe Shimon may raglayim mahu. What's the halacha if a person would want to drink the may raglayim of a chamar? Now, it's obviously disgusting, but I guess if you're really thirsty and you just tell yourself it's Mountain Dew, the question is, is it going to be have a halacha of yeitzei? Now, what's the shaila? U'vitivola susim u'gmalim. Why are we specifically asking about donkeys? It seems oddly specific. Talk about any urine of animals. To which the Gemara says, "D'susim u'gmalim nami boylu." That is certainly not going to be a shaila d'lo achirei. So, it's not dirty, so there's no real shaila of the may raglayim of sus and gamal and the dam of the it doesn't have that kind of consistency and therefore what how do we look at the maraglime of these animals? Maya oil maya nafic. The water went in the water went out and therefore it's totally mutar. It is not a different substance. But come and buy the dam of the it's somehow it's impacted by the body of the khamar. So that uniqueness of the khamar gives us a real shaila. So my what's the maybe come and buy the is it something that comes out of the body meaning it's now it's like took some of the properties of the body and therefore it's going to be mutar. I don't know maya oil maya nafic. Maybe it has that same kind of thing it's in and out. The because the the fact that it looks different doesn't have that same of the that went in is because it's the of the some kind of a heat that the body creates but it's not actually making it a bodily fluid in that way. It's still considered maya. Now the fact that this is so disgusting that we shouldn't consider this not there is a that over here says kind of an important rule about that are not he says that the fact that we find it disgusting of course it's disgusting. That doesn't make it it's inedible. It just means you would decide you want to have it. But it could be the of have to do with something that is not the opinion that you might have about it. So to that says the mission says so tell me the mission didn't say that it's from a not kosher animal meat from turning over to the meat. So tell me the meat this liquid is also from a non-kosher animal. So therefore we're being the maraglime of the it's considered not kosher. So bad news for all of you looking to have a refreshing glass of maraglime of a and ain't kosher. The there's another shaila there's no shaila by the maraglime of the because surprise surprise people don't drink it. There's no difference in the physicality between these different kinds of maraglime. Just people don't drink the maraglime of but because the people do drink it it has some medicinal benefit for healing your urine, could be some kind of jaundice. So my what's the Allah because are we going to look at this like it's just the Maya that's going through the body or not? Is it going to have a hollow of Yosi or not? So Tannisua, the mission says the honey dummy Matamiko this may also came from a not kosher mocker meaning this and therefore it should be also. The divine motor why did they say the bee honey is motor? It should be also comes out of a share if it's coming out of a bee which is certainly not kosher. Dr. Bryson machine also because the bees take the nectar into their bodies they ain't also me goofen. It's converted into the honey and then the honey goes out. So the honey is not an excretion of the body. It's a transformation of an existing nectar into that honey. That's how I understand. So therefore why is also the mayor of the hammer if even though it's not an excretion of the hammer of the donkey. In other words mayor of the hammer should be just like the same kind of header as honey of bees. And by the way the reason why the divine is motor even though the says it's hollow with the So you might think tells us that honey is motor just like it told us that milk is motor. And the answer is because that's not talking about bee honey. That's talking about the of tomorrow and that's date honey in the but bee honey should have a problem with if not for the reason that we just said in the so how do we for after because I'm going to tell you the bee honey because otherwise it would would be also did be a a title share the title share to me that the says this is a title share and then goes on to say which ones of the are going to be motor. So we say you're allowed to eat these are shares of which you're not allowed to eat a not kosher shares that flies. Shares of the I don't need a for that. That's obviously it's going to be also. To which the explains the price of that saying shares of you have to I will also tell me my shares you're allowed to eat that which that flying shares produces. The and what does it produce? That the divine room bee honey. You have to the divine maybe also the honey that comes out of these kinds of wasps and other flying insects or locusts, but Amrit light not true cuz those are taco going to be also. How do you know which kind of creature is the honey that we're allowed to have? I'll tell you cuz I'm going to include B honey because there's nothing specific about B honey. Honey is a reference to the B honey. But if you have Gila honey and wasp honey cuz that unique name is going to mean that that's not what the possible is talking about. So according to Jacob you need a special drasha to be matter the B honey. So that's the background behind the mirror glam of the hammer not being like the B honey. Cuz the B honey has a special drasha to be matter it. So who's the following price of going like the is taco who certainly not like we were just saying. Now tar since the price of says that the and is tar vice dices needs to be considered in because in order for something to become tommay it has to have the designation of being food. And taco like that in the price of the cover also the honey in the hive in the beehive itself but cuz that's a real food but Gila and honey that's not general food and therefore it's in this price of that you need to have actual to make it into food make it into the wash. Okay, next something that comes out of the female which is a kind of a kosher animal it's a little unclear what it is it might be something like a deer. Anyway, it produces this substance and we want to know if it's kosher to eat. So be in it might be like the base of a male and therefore I'm sorry now you got the wrong. Zara the it's really the Zara of that male kind of deer to also a yalta since the way it goes into the mother animal the Zara is and since the of how it reproduces is not going to make it that it could go in properly cuz that area is more narrow. So the the nose ray. So that male will go to the female and put its there there which somehow hardens inside of the rectum of the and when it gets secreted, that's what you're seeing. So it's a lot of not an it's the so there's not going to be the of the skin that covers the face of the newborn whatever is some sort of a extra skin that I guess comes off afterwards. That is not part of the and therefore it'll be to eat. It's something not part of the similar to other kinds of discharges like the placenta. But my time to eat cuz it's like extra stuff. It's not part of the body of the donkey. I have a that seems to go like you cuz it can even by a human birth if there is this skin that covers the human's face then then tar whether the child's alive or not that flesh is not considered and therefore it'll be tar. So my love or either way that skin is not considered and therefore it'll be tar. So which you don't really see that from this price. Because whether the is alive and the mother's alive or who the or the is dead but the mother is still alive that's when it'll be okay and not be but part of the mother and therefore the will take on the properties of the mother that doesn't make it by saying it's not part of any mother or I have a that says so fine. Okay. If you have a to support him and it will be to eat. All right, we're going to stop here pick it up with the for stuff. I will do my best to record both days of stuff and before stuff.