Bechoros Daf 6

All right, Dav. This is Thursday's DAV. We were talking about the hal of Nidma. It's an animal that's born that does not resemble the mother animal where the Tana of our Mishna learns it from the doubling of the words Petra in the puss have brought a different drussa from about the fact that it says Bkar three times. And now we're picking it up four lines from the bottom of what's he doing with this doubling of the lush that our head had used. And behem seems pretty general behem. So I feel just from reading the PK it would seem that you should do a Peter not just for but also for horses and camels to which Tom tell me but now we have maybe I can make a distinction that when it comes to the you have to do its redemption with a with a sheep but the bar of a sus or guml with any kind of shvf moving over tomar And that's why you have two times it says so. So according to that double is needed to say that there's no at all for susum and gimm for any other kinds of beha. Now this has a cash over here is why don't we say that I need the other pet to make the distinction about arifa that maybe there's only a dinifa by a kamur but there would be no denifa by a sus or a guml and the says an important that once we say that there's no pad by the sus and the guml that immediately tells us also there's no arifa which touches on the more global question of how do we view arifa and padia is that two sides of the same coin being one mitzvah that you have these two options or are they two separate mitzvah certainly from the way the fis is understanding argarifa is not a different mitzvah. But that is very much not posit as a separate mitzvah from the pad and and perhaps we'll get back to that when we get more into the suga and there's always a question whenever you have which are we talking about in bay but over here rashi isn't even so he kind of evades the whole issue had it written only one time being and based on that I would say that any non-casher animal can actually be redeemed that's why we have a second time it says question mark meaning that the second time it says teaches us that only a is going to be but the of any other noter animal is going to be from using but that means means that it should still have and have this. So we're back to our kasha. So now the gar is going back and say let's say the terror was all these from only from the but really which the says in if you're telling me that it wasn't that they were totally in and then the second time it could just simply say why does it say this verbose duplication of the entire expression to tell me the in our that uses teach me. How does know all of your all of your livestock that creates a is going to be a those specific animals are the soal that is who didn't go with that puts it back together for the is part of the and not part of the So it's got to be that that second is not of the first they're not phased by that because since the is only a den and there is no to it. So therefore the ter divided it into two different kinds of categories about and then put back that v to include as part of the euild. If a cow had a baby maztov but it looks like a donkey but it has some of the features of its mother cow. What's the So A's she yelled them in sheel them in A's when they're both animals and that's because both of them are kosher animals and so therefore it kind of makes sense that the would have but that gave birth to something that's like and maybe not since both of them have even though it's kind of two different flavors of between but they are both so therefore even this it doesn't sound like we're fundamentally discussing how much are these different kinds of related meaning the now since both the mother and that are going to be a well what about let's say a had a little baby and that baby looks like a soi here there's certainly a between the mother and offspring because one of them is not even shakma since there is a shik to its mother in the sense that they're both a mina maybe they're for kadesh it should have a den like its mother and I can even go one more level down since it has that similarity what about the mother's a cow and then it actually gives birth to what looks like a horse it's got that difference and only one of them meaning the mother has a but the s does or maybe the fact that it looks a little bit like its mother. Some of the simum resemble the mother that may be enough to be so bring from the mother's aer giving birth to that which looks like a non-casher animal. It'll be a mix. So that sounds like the kind of case of the cow giving birth to the horse. And therefore we look at the simony and the simony is whether there's the lie. It's not just like a par giving birth to a sus. It's like a par giving birth to and of course at least has the DNA spring arrive from this price. However, so my isn't that den that we're supposed to look at the simum going on all the above cases including the comes from the cow or the comes from the and therefore we could take care of at least two of the three shimmers which says it's specifically talking about that case of the par that gave birth to the fact why would the brace even give us a case of the kamar that gives birth to the it must be to say that you're put from dkar but why would I even need that by the case of the par that gave birth to the but still that gave birth to a which has no that should certainly have the say you know why I need the case of the giving birth to the because thought the other cases were unique because by the case of the par that gave birth to the reason why it doesn't have any DNA is because the mother has carn as horns whereas that vlad that does not have any horns and par the mother has split hooves whereas the kamar offspring does not have split hooves by the case of the kamar giving birth to the so there's no at all I might have thought this is like a red donkey meaning it's red in the sense that it looks a little like a horse but it's really not nid at all it's it's just a flavor of kamar the brace is telling us But we look at it as a nidma and it's not going to have dinar at all. Okay. Next. What's going to be the of eating this nid? Because even though it came from a kasher animal, it looks not kusher. And likewise the other way around. The mission told us the of y. So what the gar means to ask is why does the mission need to speak out the reason for the we understand that it's because of yay. If something comes from a tummy source, it's going to be tummy. And just to kind of speak out about this because it's good to keep it in mind as we learn the mass giml declares the shila about yit is the reason why tame is because it takes on the properties of its source it's t just like its source was or is there a new den called yitz where it has its egg in a problem naman it could be things that are not really part of the original source like that even though it'll be ali but it may not have both aspects and therefore you may not get malcus for the kal of a t That's goes to for that about that but just putting it out there says you know why the mission needs to tell us about the because it's really just a sim you shouldn't confuse the two meaning the hus of the vlad of a kusher animal that looks like a not kusher animal and the other one of a not kosher animal that looks like a kosher animal and how would I make such a mistake don't just look at the tsura of the offspring itself the highar malu and because it looks kosher maybe it's kosher the high malu and the not kosher animal is totally Not kosher zil buster e look at the mama and take on the properties of the mother animal. What is the mucker for this learn that for animals to be ker it has to have split hooves and chew its cut. And over there the terra lists the kinds of animals that only have one of the two characteristics and therefore they're not kosher. So now we're there are some animals that do have these characteristics and are not kosher. It'll be maybe that's not the It's coming to that which looks like a non- kosher animal that was born from a kosher animal. And therefore, what would the Torah mean when it says animals that have split hooves and chew their turning over bay? Those which are from those kinds of animals that have the simony those you shouldn't eat because it looks like a noter animal. This is all in the world of Havina limer guml to the guml. The camel's not kusher. Who? tummy only it the mama camel is not kushainara's tummy but an animal that looks not kusher born from a kusher animal only it only the mamish camel itself is going to be not kusher but the animal that looks not kusher that's born from the kusher animal is going to be kusher but it's not true says camel twice if it looks like a camel even though it was born from a kasher cow it will still have the den of the behemoth and not be kasheran who argue You're not allowed to drink the milk of any kind of camel at all. How does he know to ask for the milk of the camel? The extra sim. This is one of the five times in where we have this famous memory because what can he add to what can he add to? There's nothing to add to Hashem and therefore he took away all of his essence with all of those that you dashed until now. He said, "Look, I got for all the limit and therefore I'm willing to walk away from all of my dr and we've spoken out in the past. Why was Riaka able to see the that which shimsi wasn't able to see and I believe it's pashim of gifter that said it's because had a rebi like shimamsuni when ribba was able to see how shimani was able to walk away from all his life work of dashing every now he was able to anyway the point of bringing this is that who don't learn the dra of s to the of that you don't dash an Had it not been for those I could drink the milk of a noter animal. This is by Schwartzim where it says hat with an extra hay all these extra things their gravy and their other products. So why wouldn't that also ask the milk of aer animal to be part of that same kind of ari which the answers since the whole idea of milk in general is a because if you think about it how you allow to drink milk what is milk so tells us the source of the milk is really from dam which we know is user and the test explains that that's why the nursing mother doesn't see her because that dam is what turns into the and since it's such a that milk in general should be kosher. So maybe it should be kosher even from not kosher animals. The tells us that it's going to be not kosher. So over there the reason why she doesn't see when she just gave birth is because she's weakened from the child birth. It takes two years for her to get back to normal. So Michael, what are you going to say there? We're not gonna have the same of so it's not because I'll tell you the reason why the needs to be that the milk of a non-cosher animal there's nothing that comes out of a live animal that the terraers we obviously know there's so something that comes out of a live animal to be muted to consume but yet still milk is muted to drink therefore that's the aspect of because of from a kite now asks the gamarra the question of what's the heter to drink milk is coming out of a living animal so it should really have that isser of yaiti now the garamar is going to try different from mkyus but kada mentioned the shita makubetes that brings from a tis that wants to know why doesn't the gumar just bring a from aavu that he fed the mala milk and I remember as a ber hearing a kasha from I believe it was own kasha that the gammorra also doesn't want to bring the shift from pares Yakovu gave the toud that his eyes would be red from wine and teeth white from milk. So it's mutter to drink milk. Okay. But in the meantime, let's see what the gumar is going to give us the mocker for drinking milk. So from the fact that milk and meat together well it must be that you're allowed to drink milk otherwise you wouldn't have to give me the answer together. But that's not so true because maybe I'll tell you it's really drink a cup of milk. But at least you can get hana from milk but you cook milk and meat together it'll the of that milk as well. So you don't see necessarily that it's to drink milk and even in I'll still tell you that there's going to be a newer of malus for cooking milk and meat together. So vtor you don't have a mocker that milk is m to drink from the very fact that the had to say that you're allowed to eat the meat but not its milk. So vice if you have to tell me that it's to drink the milk it must be but doesn't like that because and therefore even if you're going to tell me milk is still the would need to mish says that the milk of the eim of these goats will be enough for your food and for all your so clearly milk is butter to have well who says you're consuming it maybe you're just selling it Okay, let's try another the says that I told to take to his army camper but also maybe was going to take these cheese to the non-Jews but not to actually consume it themselves. Come on, really? You think he's going to go ahead and try to sell it? No, that cheese was supposed to be eaten or I'll give you another muker because the Tyra famously describes as now if milk is not mut to drink. So you think the be praising with something it's not mutter I've added that or maybe we'll give this as the mocker says that you should go by and eat the wine and drink the milk. So that would act as another mocker.