Bechoros Daf 35

All right, Daff Lamed. Hey, this is Friday's Daff and we were talking about the halacha in the Mishnah of being matil mum on purpose that you're kanas and you can no longer shecht that animal l'lamis and we said similar halacha by shmita year and whether or not the kanas that applies to him, does that actually get yarshined down to his son? And the last thing we did at the end of yesterday's Daff, that was l'brei lo kanasu rabanan that only the person themselves gets the kanas but not his kids. And now at the very very bottom line of Lamed Daled Amud Beis, Amru Rabannan Aktinan, we have a meseira moving over to Amud Aleph. Tima tahara is a meis. Let's say someone is mitamei the ochlin that are tahor of somebody else's food with tumah, which you can't do. And then he dies. Lo kanasu b'nei Yisrael. That kanas that we would make a guy who's mitamei taharaisav does not get passed down to the yaresh because my time because hezek she'eino nikar l'shem hezek, it's not really considered a hezek because you can't see the tumah in there and therefore there's no tashlumin mid'oraisa and it's only kanasa d'rabanan. Who? So l'didei kanasu rabanan but l'brei lo kanasu rabanan. It's the same kind of an idea that we don't yarshin the kanas to the son. Okay, so after Mishnah, Maaseh b'zaken shel Rachel zakin, there was once a story of this old Rachel, meaning this old ram, u'sa'arei m'duldal and it was very long hair. Probably I think it was long hair because it's assur b'gizei ha'aveida and you can't bring the korban because we're talking about nach korban habayis and since it didn't have a mum, we were kind of stuck. V'ra'ahu kaster echad d'Roma and there was a Roman official that saw it and said, "Ma tiva shel zeh?" What's going on? Like why are you letting this animal exist like this? Look at the hair of its chinny chin chin. It's getting so long. Amru lei b'charo and they said, "Well, it's a bachar." Pein anishchat ela im kein haya ba'al mum. We can't shecht him unless it has a mum. So what did this guy do? Natel pigam v'tzara masnei. He took a pigam, which is a spear, and he made a hole in its ear. He made it into a ba'al mum. U'ba maaseh lifnei hachamim, they wanted to know like what's the story? Is this going to be okay or is this considered like a mazik that the guy did this on behalf of the kid? Dehei t'rei and they were matir this mum to be shechted. But v'achar shetiur, once they were matir it, halacha v'tziur ba'oznei b'charo acherim. Halacha v'tziur ba'oznei b'charo acherim. This kaster went ahead to say, "Hey, I can go ahead and take care of all your animals." So he went and started making holes in all the other ears. But also at that point the hachamim "No, no. Now he's doing it in order to be matter the behema for shchita. That is a cause for a knas, and therefore it will not be matter to shlacht." Next story. The kids were playing, and kids are kids. Because you know, like the most fun game to play when you're kids is tying tails of different sheep to each other. And one of the kids one of the tails popped off. And that one turned out to be a bechor animal. Now the question was, is that considered a mum? So they said that was okay. Rosh when the kids saw, "Hey, that's great. We were matter the bechor." So causing those animals to lose their tails. But also at that point, the Khakhamim said, "Nah, that's not going to work." This is the rule. If you do it intentionally to cause the mum, it will make the animal for shchita. However, if you do it unintentionally, it will be matter. We have two stories, the one with the caster and the one with the tinikes. And they're the same thing. But I need both stories. If I only would have heard the story about the by this guy, the misrach, because he's not going to become noheg in doing this. This is not going to set up a practice that the guy is always going to be doing a problem of matter mum of kodeshim. And therefore, we'd allow him to do this. Now, Rashi's lashon over here is very interesting. Rashi sounds like that the guy is doing an issur, and we're just going to look the other way. Which is hard to understand. I mean, it's he's a guy. It's what what problem does a guy have of being matter mum of kodeshim? I mean, for the guy himself, there should be no avera. It's not one of the sheva mitzvos bnei Noach. But the Gemara is saying there's no being misrach for the guy. But there's a bigger reason for the kid not to become used to the idea of being matter mum of bechoris. So maybe then I wouldn't be matter to the first animal. If I only had the story of the what might I have thought? That's when you're going to be matter that case. If people see being matter the mum that happened as a result of kids, they're not going to come and make a mistake to say the same thing would be by adults. These are kids. That's why it's the only way you don't realize that the person who did it would have been a guy. And therefore in both cases, both the guy and the teen guy. I'm this header that when the caster, the guy did it, you're allowed to that's where the kid said, well, I can't unless it has a mom. But if you told him well, then you're in essence telling the guy to make a mom for you. And it's commander and therefore when the guy does it, it will be us. The other guy is doing your bidding. But I'm I don't agree. Either way, it happened on its own cuz the guy is not trying to be so and it doesn't matter what your is. If the would have been to the guy that if it's made, if it's not a said, it also sounds like it's the way it shouldn't matter. And therefore if the guy does it, it will still be matter the animal for say how it will also whenever you have a what's it coming to include last way grammar even though grammar typically is not going to have the same level of but here if you put the food let's say on the ear so a dog would come and bite off the ear. That's a grammar and that will also the and then part of that it'll be that's even if you're just describing this to a guy and you're saying oh you know my can't be unless it has a mom and then the guy goes ahead and does it. That's also considered that it'll be so the mission right fight. Let's say that is chasing somebody but I tell you by mom and in self-defense the man protects himself and gives this animal a mom. So then the is that's not like you were you were protecting yourself and the mom happened and therefore it's okay. But I don't know that happened during that chase. I will afterwards if you just go ahead and give it a kick and therefore you're being then will not be so obviously it's not a self-defense at that point. No cuz who did the reason why the guy kicked it is cuz he was harkening back because he was still angry from being chased and therefore maybe that's also considered not intentional to make the mum. No, that's not true. That's going to ask to the animal. Don't say that if you only protect yourself and kick the book hard during its redefa then it's going to be matter. But if you kick it outside of the redefa it'll be also. But my time across the who the mid current therefore it's matter to a shameless. Person could be matter mum in utero. I'm a rubber God you would name when it comes to your head God yeah, you could do the mum on its ear while it's still coming out of the mother animal and in raw and a lamb the sieve of say by making a mum on its lip. You could be a mum also the chef on its ear because a more direct to order of the fact that the way the animal comes out of the mother with its head sideways making the ear more visible. That's how you would give it its mum. I'm a rubber over the mercy for a mercy have a mum. If when the animal eats I can't see the mum that it has but when it opens its mouth wide and it makes me to cry out then it's going to be visible have a mum and that's enough to be considered a mum that makes the animal matter for shita. So my commercial mum to Nina we're going to learn later on about mum in in a couple blood. I hope tonight so nice significant we should make mum mum if the front gums had a hole in them or they were cut up in the mirror eyes should make raw or the back gums were up rooted it's going to be considered a mum. My time a lot mission to keep away mercy cuz when it opens its mouth nice and wide then we can see it's mum. So it's a fair share of Mishnah what's rather telling us more than the Mishnah I'm a proper over Nami time it must be some of our fish coming to explain the shot of the Mishnah that my time and that crew have a mum why is that back gums that get up rooted why is that considered a mum mission to keep away mercy cuz when the animal opens wide then you can see the mum. So the next Mishnah call the mum and show ruin love I be the Adam any mum that can be made by a person royal Israel name on in a non kind shepherd is name on to say it happened to naturally. However, ro'eh Yisrael Kehanim einan Ne'emanin. We've learned already that Kehanim who stand to gain when the bechor has a mum, they're not Ne'eman if they are a shepherd. Rabin Shimon ben Gamliel omer, Ne'eman hu al shel chaveiro, ve'ein Ne'eman al shel atzmo. He's only believed by his buddies bechor, but not by his own. Rebbi Meir omer, ha'chashud [snorts] al ha'davar lo edonu velo me'idei. Someone who's suspect about a subject, he can't judge or be made about it. So the Gemara Rebbi Yochanan veRebbi Elazar, chad omer, this halacha of ro'eh Yisrael Ne'emanin, ro'eh Yisrael be Kehanim Ne'emanin. It means the Yiddisher shepherds that are the employees of the Kehanim are Ne'eman. Lil legima lo chashinan, cuz we're not concerned about this legima, which is kind of kahoots, that maybe the ro'eh Yisrael that work for Kehanim are going to lie because they're in on the deal that they can now eat from this bechor animal. And ro'eh Kehanim be Yisrael einan Ne'emanin. And when the Tanna Kamma said that the ro'eh Kehanim are not believed, that means that Kehanisher shepherds that are employees of Yisraelim are not believed. Why wouldn't they be believed? Cuz me amar omer, the shepherd's going to say to himself, "Kivan de chatar chana bei, since I have worked with this animal, leishavek le di divya le achrinei." The ba'al habayit is not going to ignore me and give this animal to somebody else. So I have some skin in the game over here to make sure that this animal should be a ba'al mum. Hu adein kohen le kohen, and the same halacha would be a ro'eh who's a kohen, he can't be made on behalf of another kohen, even though he's not expecting the ba'alim to give it to him, still he shouldn't be trusted. De chashinan le kohen le kohen, cuz we're concerned that they may be doing each other some kind of I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine kind of situation here, and they'll lie for each other. Ba'al Also, Rabin Shimon ben Gamliel omer, Ne'eman hu al shel chaveiro, ve'ein Ne'eman al shel atzmo. That's Rebbi Gamliel's shita, that he's only Ne'eman for his chaver and not for his own. Ba'al Rebbi Meir le meimar, ha'chashud al ha'davar lo edonu velo me'idei, which seems like the same shita as the Tanna Kamma, and the Gemara is going to ask about that. Ba'al chad omer, another mahalacha what the Mishna means when it says that ro'eh Yisrael are Ne'eman, that means ro'eh Yisrael vehein Kehanim Ne'emanin. These ro'eh Yisrael who themselves are Kehanim are going to be Ne'eman, cuz they're working for non-Kehanim. turning over to him in base. Cuz may mar amar le shavich tzurva me rabannan vi ovdei di, the bal ov us over here is not going to not give it to the tzurva me rabannan, to the talmidei chachamim, which is what we've already learned we're supposed to want to do. You should be give the bechor to the kohen who's the talmidei chachamim, and not to me, his lowly shepherd. And ro'eh kohen de heinei Yisraelim ne'emanin, and when the Tanna Kamma says that the ro'eh kohen are not ne'eman, he means those ro'eh Yisrael who work for Kohanim, those are the ones that are not ne'eman. Why? Cuz we're chashish for a cohoots, de chashishin le gima. We're worried about them trying to lie on each other's behalf. The kohen kohen can lie. And certainly, if the owner and the employee are both Kohanim, de chashishin le gima. De chashishin le gima. And we're afraid that he's going to partake in eating from this buzzer of the bechor, and that's why he's lying on his behalf. Ye'ush Rabbin Shimon le meimar, ne'eman al shul chaveirai, the kohen ro'eh is ne'eman le gabei his buddy kohen's bechor, ve ein ne'eman al shul atzmi, but he's not ne'eman by his own bechor. Ye'ush Rabbin Meir le meimar, chashish le davar le donav le meidei. Rabbin Meir argues with Rabbin Shimon Gamaliel, who's matir the ro'eh who's a kohen to to be made on behalf of his boss who's a kohen. He's also arguing on the Tanna Kamma, who holds that the ro'eh who's a kohen could be made on behalf of his boss who is a Yisrael. Now, bishlamah le man de amar ro'eh Yisrael ve hein Kohanim ne'emanin, that these ro'eh, the ro'eh who work for Yisraelim, who are Kohanim, which is this second pshat, heinou de assar Rabbin Meir le meimar, now at least it makes sense what Rabbin Meir is coming to add, that chashish le davar le donav le meidei, because the Tanna Kamma holds that the ro'eh who are Kohanim themselves are ne'eman, while Rabbin Meir comes and says they're not. But according to the first pshat, le man de amar ro'eh kohen be Yisrael einan ne'emanin, that the Kohanim who are these ro'eh, who are working for Yisraelim, are not ne'eman. My assar Rabbin Meir lash meina, einou Tanna Kamma. Rabbin Meir is not saying anything more than what the Tanna Kamma had already said, that the Kohanim are not going to ever be ne'eman. He could be now assar Rabbin Shimon ben Kapeisoi. The nafka mina between the Tanna Kamma and Rabbin Meir is whether or not you hold of Rabbin Yeshua ben Kapeisoi. De Tanya, cuz the braisa says Rabbin Yeshua ben Kapeisoi amar, bechor be kohen a bechor baal mum, that's in the house of a kohen, tzarech shnayim min a shuk le haya le avnei outsiders who have no to be made that was not done by Robin Sherman been a few little bit even the son of the daughter in the same household can be made you see I feel the same and may eat in a love even 10 people if they're no can do agrees with me and only somebody who's not part of the household is going to be believed only needs one person be made he doesn't actually need two people to be made come on that's a big Chanel Israel is a car that has a moment that was born in the house of Israel so I should that you need two to be matters who's the one who holds you need to have to eat them that's your sugar been because just like been required the two of them to be mattered the car bomb mom that's owned by the coin because we're scared that the coin might have actually been himself so two two of them are going to be needed for the of the Israel's a perfect car due to this so that'll be Ruby open but I don't know where even the Israel can be made by them can be made do they take my car cuz if you're not willing to say this and you take a the Israel is going to be questioned for being so my sir when it comes to my server he may where the is once it has a moment you can't bring it as a carbon you can shut down and eat it anywhere as long as it wasn't done intentionally but that should give us a reason because the bottom for being my solar mayor who says that there is a me made of who can ever be made about the head of the mice of a hammer since everybody meaning Israel and should be suspect so should come out that the mayor they shouldn't be allowed to be made by somebody else's animal so who would ever be named one and for the no no come on my sir but I may have a lot of them by them is named one by my server he may the boy showed him a moment cuz if you want to be as a amigo that he could have been my mom on his entire flock before it was in the saucer so since he has that ability to always put more of them on his own animals he'll be named one to say that a moment happened on its own and not on purpose this is going to be the market to say that the Israel is not questioned to make a moment of a perfect car so fake the Ruby a love. Who's going to be made about Sefek Bechor according to Shitas Rebbe Meir? Because according to Rebbe Meir who's Machmir that Yisrael Ba'alim is Chashud not to be Ne'eman on others. Rebbe Meir Rebbe Meir the lesson to counter if you tell me that according to Rebbe Meir he's going to be stuck. I bought none. We learned through the Mishna Rebbe Meir shall I Rebbe Meir kosher Chalifa of Bechor whenever that exchange for the Bechor would be Bechor but the man because the Sefek Bechor is going to be put there for Yisrael Rebbe Meir Rebbe Meir is Machayev and Rebbe Meir is Machayev to give him Matanos to the Kehunah. So according to Rebbe Meir since you're giving them Matanos clearly if there's Matanos in question here this animal is not going to be a Bechor anymore and therefore it's clearly Mutar to eat. So let's know Ba'alim is made in a love and you don't need to have two more because Kehunah who are Kehunah are Chashud or be Matan Mum but Yisrael Rebbe Meir Rebbe Nachman Rebbe Shimon that a better a bass of a Kehunah is Ne'eman. Rebbe Rebbe that you can't have family members as part of your Adus. Rebbe Rebbe Rebbe I Rebbe Ba'alim if the Ba'alim of a Bechor who's a Kehunah is outside his house Rebbe Nachman Rebbe and the Bechor goes into the house without a Mum and comes out with a Mum Rebbe Meir the Benei Beisai of the Kehunah who were in that house could be made that it happened on its own and didn't happen because someone did it on purpose. That's not going like Rebbe who's not Mayan in the Benei Beisai of the Kehunah from being made which Rebbe Meir says no Rebbe Rebbe Ba'alim we'll say according to Rebbe that the case is type of where the entire household was outside and nobody from the family was inside it was only the Rebbe who was inside and he's the one who's going to be made. Rebbe Shimon we're not worried that he's going to be lying. Rebbe is going to stand fine with Rebbe who holds that the Benei Beisai are not Ne'eman. So you have that's the case Rebbe there's nothing to be worried about because the whole family was outside. So what are you worried about? Rebbe Rebbe because if Rebbe wouldn't have said this we might have thought that even the Rebbe would be Chashud because if the whole family is outside and only the Rebbe is inside the whole thing is kind of sketchy. Why is everybody outside the house? It seems like this was a set up and therefore maybe we should be worried that the Rebbe was in on it. Rebbe you don't have to worry about it. We're going to stop here and pick it up with Shabbos with the with the Vilhosa. We'll catch you next time.