Bechoros Daf 17

All right, I get inventor DF Yan and we were talking about the suga of the guy who has a shyus to your animals because he was uh an investor who gave the yid the barzelika animal and the last thing we talked about on yesterday's daf was the musoyam ravuna and rahuda how many generations down are we going is it that extra generation or not to say now that there'll be and we'll pick it up now four lines from the bottom of zone in our mission it said raglas there And even 10 generations past the barel there'll still be a pur because the guy can always come and collect now that expression of even 10 generations well because according to the tanakama holds to go down more generations that extra generation. So according to Yehuda it makes sense that should argue with the tanakama and saying oh it's not just that extra generation but even 10 generations moving over to But according to Rauna who understands that wasn't going down multiple dy that the following generation already why would need to have such a dramatic expression of a 10 generations he should just say one more generation and then that would be the way he would argue with the tanagama. So how's Rahuna going to understand is going on that next case in the mission where you're swapping out the animal for the mother. In that case the Tana does go down to more dyrus of generations and therefore that third generation is going to be putter as well. So in such a case the tanakama is going to be pottering multiple generations winner argues he has to now talk extreme terms of even 10 generations to go that says our mission is not going like it's pretty much clear that that is not going to be from now the original barel's animal and their children which is the third generation that's the are all going to be put from or you could say the same thing a little bit differently because it's the opposite way to look at it that only the original animals and their children are going to be putter that's says only that first generation is going to be putter so it just depends on how you're going to read it but both and can get out of the now let's move on to the next part of the Mishna that there is a of nidme If it looks different than its mother animals came from and he had a following Bryce with him that is so layer of when you go to learn by ask him the following what is saying he's right if he's saying that you're in well less later doesn't make the same of that. So is potter we know is going to be forid maybe that's what was talking about but that I guess when you have this hard kind of wool it's from I guess that we learned from the you only get warm from this kind of softer kind of wool. So Raba went ahead and takuna and this is what rafuna said later said back we're talking about so the sheep gave birth to what looks like a goat but the father was a goat and what's the issue it's a different context it's not it's not but rather it's because typically there's no by animals it's all about what the mother animal was but takes into account the fact that the father was also a goat and therefore there will be there won't be because we don't care about what the father was if that's the is not a local this is a general wean so why mayor and have such a narrow case for their to be when it's really a general of the between and is by That's bero basel. We're talking about this rael which is technically not a rael because is a female sheep and a b is only a gate to a male animal but it's this like animal bases. So the rul is the ch is the product of a ral whose bubby was actually a goat. So Maril according to mayor you go the actual mother of high nidm the mother is not a problem and therefore you're to give this to a zil you go to the grandmother and it could be the shil over here is do we look at the mother to determine or do we look at the min to determine nidma's so you switched off kind of animal says the seos kite goes back to its place and therefore the is not an you have to give it say and therefore it is considered and is going to be from and a third there are some that look like its mother. So mayor is going to be going like the Mishna we had earlier that you go buster those mixim who argues that's and since you only have some sim but not you'll be you need to have an actual child of of a proper Sawyer goat. So even mayor who's about this kind of but he'll be by the time because there's a special it has to be like the same kind of animal that Hashem made in the beginning of time and therefore if it's imperfect because it's mutant because it has mutated then it will not be kosher for that kind of carbon that's the so why is giving us a different mocker if I only learned it from over there. The I would have thought the Bryce is giving us is only going to p a regular nid where the animal looks like it's bubben za but it looks differently from its mother. But but if you tell me the is on whether or not it looks like the alite now but if I would learn it from the carbon like by the carbon I wouldn't think it would necessarily puzzle therefore it's also possible to have that kind of for a maiden both of mayor and are ma they liken this kind of wool from this kind of animal and mixed with linen is not going to be ivor and And since there is a shino here, that's enough to say you're not going to be the similarly the kind of blue wool that you need for has to be kind of wool from a perfect animal. So this kind of mutated animal is not going to be for and another it's not going to have from this kind of we can therefore say the following that if someone puts a grape vine into a fig tree I guess you're trying to graft it somehow make them grow together that's going to that kind of wine for and this would create a because it will be developing unnaturally is that also considered a deviation such that it'll be that way by because we were basing our earlier draw about how piston doesn't ever deviate but it can it can be nishana soakashi no zen by the case of the GE and by the there's a real difference because it changes the mitas of the wine that's created you'll change the but by the it really doesn't change it's this is going to be the of the locus if you willish let's say you have a animal that has never yet given birth so it's ready to put out its first vi had twins and both of the heads came out of the mother at the same time sounds painful but the question is do we have one or not give both animals to theem so it sounds like they could both become they both couldn't have come out the exact same moment so only one of them is going to be the you give one to the that is when the kayen takes one of them he gets to pick which one he wants to take which is another way of saying the better one is going to be the bkar well the mashn the the more zapa one with all the extra fat that extra value is going to be which is a way of saying that the bum gets to keep it and he argues and the kayen takes the one continues that second one that the owner gets to keep has to be and at that point you can eat it turning over bays that even though it's a sufficar still you got to give them a just like a regular is going to explain why is giving the mat to the let's say one of these animals of the sufficar dies the cayenne and the bum divide up the remaining and since the can't prove that he's entitled to anything he doesn't get anything now the last case let's say that two animals were born one was a zaka so at that point there may not be aar at gets squat. They learn it's possible to actually happen at the same time. It's possible they really are both certainly according to it's not to be at the exact same time. But the question is how do we deal with because maybe the opponent are masking when a person tries to do something at the same time they can achieve it. And now we're going to bring rias from around about whether or not it's first we're going to try to bring a riot from the third parid there's at the midpoint of the to determine where the you know the top and the bottom of the for where the dam goes. If you're telling me that it can't be done, that you can't achieve exactitude. So then sometimes the might accidentally be putting down below the or the lower above the but the Mishna says that the always determines where things are. Now there are some that want to say that there's a about the is it a sim or a sa but you see pretty clearly from this garra that it's not going to be the siba. It's only a simmon. If it was the sba then it wouldn't matter because wherever the kutasikra is is the demarcation for the top and the bottom. But Aragamar is saying that maybe they got it wrong. So since is clearly only a simmon from this it seems that way. It must be that it's which the Gumar says no it's not true because the they widened it a little bit. So the actual thickness of the doesn't have to be in the middle but it covers your bases. So therefore it will determine what's considered the top or the bottom part of the tosh bring another from the actual measurements from the dimensions of the misb. The Tory says exactly how big these things need to be. And the fact that we can be it must be it's for the you should make them whatever you're able to do you got to do. And in such a case will be to freedom and even if they're not with perfect because as the says his kill and Rashi actually says this P doesn't really tell us anything over here in this gum we shouldn't even be it but the G does say from this P you see there was it civoy but it was never really expected to have an actual perfection in the dimensions of all the and we're going to stop here and pick it up with Kina for tomorrow's daf Lauren Stark.