Bechoros Daf 11

All right. This is Tuesday. So yesterday we spent most of the daff talking about how is Masim that after the it's but we ended off quoting that said that would still hold even after the it's now we're picking it up 14 lines from the bottom of this memor of that shim holds that is after is another version of that because the that we had talked about ones. If somebody's madish with a she's not mudes and on that shim because according to shim if aar is why shouldn't she be which the answers of even that after it's why she's not mudes but you get the there's another lion that this is the way it went down who's the it can't be either of them because if it was shim who holds that is So she should become with all of it because it's all and sure the actual and the difference in cost that's going to be the amount she's going to be with the mission and kush can really be going like that and we're talking about a still alive but the reason why it's not going to work is because there's practically no money there to speak of because We're talking about such a cheap donkey that's only worth a shekel. The baruda who holds that that has to be worth at least a shekel. So the isha who's getting this kind of that's only worth a shekel is gaining nothing by it and therefore she'll be mikudeshases because she did not get any money. Not because of but simply because there was just no value there. Dany is the bryce says ta ta. It says the word ta twice which teaches us that ta is miyad even before the kamar is 30 days older as opposed to anom that waits 30 days until you can be paid to the child by you do it right away and also you can actually be paid it with apsula that's worth any amount there is no minimum amount for that it can't be less than a shekele when the garra says over here that it could be in any amount there is a sh from the how literal that is so would that work with a pas and the rationale is that even if it's a pas but it might have the kash because it still has a so the fact that it's complete animal might still make it potentially work and that's his suffic but getting back into this brace ta so the is right away as soon as it's born and also ta khu so frank the garamar why wouldn't I be able to do the padilla right away once it's born and why wouldn't I be able to use a very cheap which the garamar says it's they are because sa Because we do compare the with the of a person only until they're 30 days old and you have a minimum amount which is the for the maybe I would think also it would only be after 30 days and also you need to have a that is worthishim and you have to have a minimum shear and if the is worth less than I'll say it ain't so and it won't work. Let that joke sink in for a sec. So to that there is a minimum and that minimum is a how do you understand then boy if you're comparing it to people you should need five then where you getting shekele from what's that even coming from why would there even be such a minimum of a shekele it seems so random we're not comparing it to people so what's the mucker for the shekele so that that when we come to the Paul success that every valuation of a person is going to be in terms of and we learn the rule that that's the minimum amount. So therefore the amount of money that this said needs to be worth is also going to be a shekele bonan who argue hoo moving over to that's only specifically by and since of course is not you don't have any minimum amount for what the and the is worth which means to say that a can with a worth any amount of money and when we say any amount what do we actually mean is there really no minimum soil patuza banka Even this very that's only worth this which is a sixth of a very little bit amount of money because our Mishna said that you could be pamor with god vikotton and the cotton the youngest of which we can assume is only going to be worth this bardanka soarita it's posit that you can spend any money on it cuz just as you can use a set that's any amount so why would I think that rebases needs to say even has to be this very thin one that's only worth this bardanka and for the gamar would tame a koolie highlight maybe I would think that it's only worth this baranka you wouldn't be able to use it or enami or maybe if it was super thin also you wouldn't be able to use it tells us that even if it's both patrusa meaning very thin and also very cheap you can use it to be paudia which is probably not someone much later he asked a sh of this is how we know it's not going to be rebi how much do I got to give the octuinella. If you're generous, you're going to give a to the cayenne a little more stingy, it'll be bashel, which is only two zuman. Now, sounds like a interesting word. We'll soon see what that means. And how much is riga zuzie? It's three, which is as if to say it moves around. So, it comes close to the shekel, but it's not quite the shekele because it's more than a shekele, but it's still less than a cell, but it's more than a shekele. So, it's like in the middle. Mint dick a coin. That's why it's and yeah, but it's going to come out because beforehand said we're going to ask like that say that any se could be used no matter what it's worth even if it's only worth a baranka but ra here saying it has to be worth a riga or three so and where ra you can use a said that's worth a rig that's when you're asking how much should I do so this is what we tell him you should be worth three but by the case of if he just does it on his own and we're asking was he yay yeah as long as it was worth this baranka That's going to be all we need. Let's say he has a he's got to take care of it, but he doesn't have any you can use other saying this like that says it's going to be right. This was this was he said the reason why I know it's because the you got to use a set. See don't tell me you can use the shim that you can use other things other than a set. That's the way learned this idea of but ra had this very to put together with in terms of we're going to ask this and our mission was also that can't be you got to say the who says you can use the is going to work like and what's going to be thehatish a should be more than actual which you can use cash. You don't have to use a specific thing. The only reason the Tory said you can be with this is not to be with him, but rather be with him. Meaning, you don't have to give the full value of this expensive donkey, but you can use the cheaper to be paid. But in if you're going to actually do you can use anything that has the equal value of the used cooked vegetables as a for the which of course is what we saw back before on I think if somebody is his friend it works even though the owner of the didn't know he was doing it and this is an important typhus because typhus over there mas La peda says it's not like truma because by truma the whole issue is an issue of but here since there's no dinum but rather it's just a financial exchange you don't need to have aus at all for it to work I believe this is a but that's the important tus over here that this is not working so who gets to have that thing that he was ped with now we're not asking about the actual set that goes to the kayen but the question is this donkey now that it's been redeemed who gets to have it is it the original bi or is it the guy who made the pin there's no sharing because since he says that was already certainly it never left the it was always his beforehand the fact that there was a mitzvah done to it doesn't change that status but according to this thing really wasn't the bims in a practical sense because it was so is it madame we compare it which tells us that when you're ped something you get to have it now. So therefore just like byges the one who paid it gets to keep it so too here also the one who's paid it will get to keep it not the bum but maybe the other argument could be that since the bum gets to own the difference in money between and that said that he's doing the pigeon withdish and therefore the bum would keep the donkey once the other guy does the bring you from the following if I steal this lab you still got to pay to the owner even though right now he has nothing from it. But once there's a he has in it for after the takes place who's the well that can't be because he already had it. It must be the t of the holds that the and therefore the bum had no to it. But yet still the price says you pay the cul to the bum. Now if you're telling me we're comparing the todish welldish so we know you don't pay kayl when you steal hdish so why should I have to pay kayl to the bum of the kamar must be we don't compare it to heish but rather it stays like it's m of bum and therefore if a third party goes ahead and it's p somebody's the bum gets to keep that kamari that's the end of the discussion mic drop finished then the mishad said let's say we're talking about one donkey that had already given birth and one that had not yet given birth. So we said that the se that's used to do the pedia goes to inside the deer and the braces says when does it have the denim of regular micer you can't say the mission is talking about where it already came to the kayen who used it for the sha because we learned in the Mishna coming up later on that matiser behema an animal that is given to somebody as a maton is going to be from micus so once the padilla is done and it's given to the kite It's not going into the deer. The mission is talking about a case of Israel had 10 sufficars. Like each one of these donkeys that had never been. And each of them gave birth to both a male and a female. We didn't know which one was first. That in case you're curious what's the plural of the word, it's saying. I'm just saying that you separate these 10 sheep. This way you're taking care of any sufficer. PH and the Mish is telling us that they go into the deer and they become his just like all the other animals. And to that of who has 10 house but there's a history here. How did he get these? These donkeys that need to have padia, they came from the mama who came from her father who was a cayenne. And that za who is a cayenne bi is came from his mother whose father was a Israel. All right. So we got a whole bunch of generations here. Starting off with Israel whose daughter went ahead and married a cayenne whose now son the cayenne to his an Israel. So the issuer into he separates 10 sayan and he's them and then he gets to keep them because once he takes care of the padia they're certainly his and his noarker than the zade that he inherited it from which is the cayenne and the cayenne had to do a but he didn't have to give them to another cayenne because since he's a kay himself he was entitled to keep it and therefore the isel who's from the kayen keeps that same and the is saying this is not just by a sufficar this is by since the from the allows him to keep them now if you just stop and Think about it. These are very old donkeys who have lived through multiple generations of two sets of zason. Now the is going to bring a parallel that's going to kind of mirror the same idea here is who had that means was done on his piles of grain already which is so this is inherited from who? It's his maternal grandfather who was a and this was a from his maternal z is so once he separates the micer he can actually keep the truma just like his zeta the kayen would have done he can't of course eat the truma because he's a zar and he can't eat truma but the fact that he can own the truma is significant because he can sell it to a kayen even though it's going to be cheaper cost but lisi can sell it to a kayen because it's his property and I need both by the kamar and by the truma that had me if from would have told the that you can keep it because they were already separated in the of the meaning the or these are distinct animals so you don't need anything to do to create the and therefore we can look at this as if the ye already inherited animals from his zeta the kayen it's like a matu kamish by the case of the which is kamishu And therefore you would need to have an active ahead because it's from within it the because that shuma is inside of that pile. So we can look at it as if it was already separated and hoofish making it the kind's property which then he could be mirish to his anacle a by the case of the pakamar to semi alabu because since you need to bring the seph from outside and then now designated as the petar's pad amalo maybe I'll say it's not considered like it was already separated and now given to the Israel as the from the cayenne and is telling us that both in these cases it's ku it came through the of the maternal za And therefore he can keep it himself. And I need both turning over. If somebody buys from a he's meaning maintains his on this truma that he separates. So now he can turn around and sell to a who did the smoothing of these piles of grain? Well, they're not going to have any at all because if he did there's no in the first place we must be talking where the smooth out the piles of grain while they were still in the of the so you have to beer the guy doesn't have any in the ground of this of messer. So even though the guy owns a field in Artisel his basis doesn't take away the kaducious and doesn't potter those from obviously the guy himself is not in anything but aid who buys those pairs from him now has but the messer is his because now he can say to the I come from the I come from the of a person who you couldn't have started up with meaning this guy that I got it from you couldn't have taken it from him because he has no of him so therefore I kind of bought that from the guy so you kayen can't have also we learned in Mishna in the third par of where everything is of if you give your toets you don't have to be worried they swapped it for te but rather it'll maintain the same kind of status of with that same in the m that you gave it to him however if you give your pis to a guy we treat it like and we have to be that maybe the guy swapped it for his own stuff and therefore now that you take it back you have to now be But it keeps the status of demi and you don't just assume that the guy swapped it out. But there's a that he did. It's a suffic and that's like demite everybody's mask and both are mask that he should do it once he takes it back from the suffic and therefore you can't eat it without being is about to according to the switched it out and therefore it's so absolutely has a mitzvah seen it to the but since it's only a suffic if the guy swapped it. Sure for himself he's got to be but he's not after all of saying this the reason why the mitzvah of Nina is because we're misopic whether or not the guy swapped it out however but let's say swapped it have to do the mitzvah of Nina but is that really true are you really to give the mus kahuna from Paris that had belonged to a If you buy this that had from a guy, you're masser and you get to keep it yourself. So the it shouldn't have any of to which the answers well and micer maybe this here that the mission that says you got to do the mitzvah to the kay that's done before the micer butis messer that says that the y is from giving it to the kayen. He was talking about the Israel that got this grain from the Sure he gives the truma but he can keep the trumiser for himself. Soi said back as reminded me of something that once said that is however manicer and let's do one more piece here. The said that if this you did the pigeon with dies, it's not where did the said die. If it died in the of the cayenne after the Israel gave it to him and the miss is telling us that the cayenne can have from it. Well, it's his property. Why would I think that it would become it must have died before he had a chance to give it to the cayenne and the mission is telling us that the kay can take this carcass and have enough from it. Well, because it's still the kayan's property once the pat is done. So, what are we talking about? To which the says since it has not yet reached the kay's hand and therefore maybe it's still and maybe the only time there's actually the lifting of is when it really reaches the hand. As soon as done, boom, it is the cayenne. And therefore, when it dies, that's the it's because it's the cayenne's m. We'll stop here and pick it up with the Mishna for tomorrow's daff.