Chullin Daf 97

All right, Dad Zion. This is Wednesday's daf. And today we really get to start with thea in yanim. Let's pick it up with the gur after the Mishna and sad bay. The Mishna had said that if you cook a whole yar a whole thigh of an animal that has a giranha inside of it, it assers the ganosha if it's nice. If the flavor of the giranosha now leaks into the buser, which we will typically use as the way to know whether or not something is nice. That's only when it's cooked. But if it's not cooked, but rather it's roasted then you don't actually the whole rather you just peel off that meat and eat until you reach the gid. So it doesn't spread throughout the whole but rather it just stays user by itself. And what's the difference between bishel and sa? Well, bishell is in liquid and sa is a dry heat. So it doesn't mean necessarily roasting it over an open flame. Our ovens could be considered sa sometimes. Now it sounds like when you look at Schmool's memor that all of the buser of the is going to be mutter even the part of the buser that's directly touching the ginha itself. But this is where there's a very important tyus and a lot of reshinim that can't possibly mean that you can eat all the way to the ginosha because there is certainly a hala of kad kipa meaning the part that's mamish touching the ginosha is also user and some resham hold it's even going to be kad natila which is even more of that which is up against the Iser. So the way Tyus understands armor as long as you do the kipa it'll be to eat the buser in we say we're more that's the but there's a ton of important TIS over here but we'll just mention some of it. Tyus wants to know why don't we apply the idea of which says that the thing that's assa of the flesh. So once we acknowledge that the isha extends that the thin layer around the ganosh is also user that which touches that kipa should be user. In other words, noa should ultimately asser the whole because everything is touching everything. So it passes through from one level to the next. And Tyus tells us an important idea that kadan won't asser more than the actual isra itself would asser. So you're not going to say the ispash more than it can actually do itself. Tyus brings from mimits theim another da that he doesn't seem to like very much. And if you look at the inside in Sim where he expands on his own cheetah, the Aram writes that we only say the Kanan if by saying it will give it a different shame meaning it'll be like a shame like this is a trait as opposed to here where it's not going to become the and the continues to say thatan itself is only a and we only say not. So we're going to talk about more expansively later in the peric but this is an important tis over here. So meanwhile we have that there's a between bishel and you're telling me that there's no taste transfer there's no nice when it comes to if you have a gadi this little goat and it is roasted in its own and Rashi speaks out we're talking about you're not allowed to eat any of this gad even until its ears meaning it spreads throughout the whole body of the gad. So how can you tell me about the whole thing should become moving over to shi is different because its own nature causes it to spread throughout the entire flesh. So whereas the giranosha which is not fatty it's not going to permeate als but the k of ice will move throughout the whole animal at least. Tyus wants to know well what happened to the schuman hagid there is fat of that ganosha also. So Tyus springs from the rabbit that the shain the fat of a gid is not me. It's a different kind of a mitzv you're telling me it's going to go through the whole body and therefore all the meat there was a basic of with such a case of a that was roasted in its own and they came to and said what's going to be with this he was talking he said you could be k and you could just peel it off and you could just separate until you reach the so clearly the does not spread throughout the whole meat evenly and for the gam the case of that gadi was talking about a kush it was very weak now we need to understand what that means that's a reshim according to typhus it's the nature of that kind of fat that's not going to spread that if the animal is very lean the nature of it will not spread throughout the animal but tyus in another terror brings that it could be about the amounts that in such a thin animal there's not enough and therefore it becomes bashim and it's not nice. This is a very significant typhus because between these two different terutimum whether or not you'll say a bit of bashishim in such a case and this might have to do with the fact that when we say the hal that it spreads throughout is it spreading evenly or perhaps it doesn't really spread evenly because lisa there is no liquid there and therefore perhaps even the heter is shishim times the dvarer maybe that part of the heter would still be oser because you don't necessarily have shishim kgdite so this is an important tumble in the rshinan in the pisk and it's based on how you understand this line in the gumar of who Rauda Omar the reason why it's not a kasha about this gad that they brought to is because it was a different case it was kulya visar it was a case of a kulya a kidney that was roasted with its and that's why said it was motor because as Rashi explains there's a membrane that separates the kv and its kidney and therefore that membrane prevents the ka from getting into the kidney and that's why was m a third mahal bar there was no sle at all but rather kilf it was these kinds of small noter fish that were found inside the pot of meat. If you want to know if this taste of the noter fish went into the meat, give it to the armo, which you could touch as the non-Jewish cook, the non-Jewish chef. The word kefa could be a baker. The point is he's a professional. So if he says he can't taste the kilus, if he can't taste the tray of fish, then the meat will be kosher to eat and you have no problem. Now this line makes a lot of noise in the piskim. The way Rashi understands the idea of the armo is that you ask the guy and rashi don't tell him you're looking for if he says that I don't taste any fish in there at all. So then it's going to be mut. But if he says, "Wow, it has a little bit of a fishy taste." Then we have a problem and it'll be oser. Tyus learns exactly fak. Tyus learns he can't do it that the gar is very mad that it's aro. We need to be talking about a professional where his job is on the line and that's why he will be very careful to give an exact opinion here. So it's hard to know how to be like rashier like because are mutually exclusive if it has to be or it has to be an expert opinion. the Rambam when he brings the intest he just says and that's actually how the brings the right in the beginning where the lotion of the Rambam is can taste it for you doesn't mention doesn't mention they have to be the expert opinion as an offshoot of this discussion there's also an interesting chuv and sim that discusses whether tima in general has a dinner but we will move on in the beginning I had it fair from the following that let's You got one of your fleshic pots, you can't cook milk in it. The imish and if you did cook milk in it, that milk that's in there is going to be user because we're assuming that the meat that was in the walls of the pot now went into the milk. It's nice to and therefore we can assume we're talking about aim here because if it was a it would not be nice. It might be nice of but it's certainly not. And there's actually an important over here that's brought by the argar talking about this as we mentioned. But if it won't even be there's no himself on his rebi he brings from the rajba that can't be true. You cannot possibly be allowed to use the ana to cook the milk in such a flesh of kapat continues the bryce a truma also if you cook truma and if you did cooken then the is going to be user to a nonen if the truma is so the question is I get it by truma whether or not you want to see if it's nice to a cayenne can legally andically taste the food but in our case of the pot where you're cooking the milk who can taste it. But now that we've established based on's memory, okay, so you can also now be on this cook to see whether or not there's a taste of boser in this milk. It's interesting that we're talking about Truma in this context. Doesn't Truma only bottle one to 100 and not to shish and the actually says over here that that of one to 100 by Truma is only by it'll be like everything else say that something's going to be when it is based on its taste and the also said that you can determine its state of Iser by having the taste it turning over and also tell us that you can achieve Soil to know when to apply which rule we say the following if it's two different where both are muted like in our case of truma and then it'll be you can determine the status based on having a yid to whom both are mut to taste it but the isura let's say it's something that's user to other yiden like by our case then it'll be you have to have the guy taste it and in a case where it's not physically possible to determine any kind of taste from one to the other or it's a case where it's but there is no option to have the tasted for you then'll be there were these thighs of an animal that were salted in the bala together with their gan soak so there was a about these salted thighs so shalashi and he said abashar that aba which is reference Minister of Ashi was m such a case and there'll be mut soar of rak why would you asker them do and kush harukushel that salting and soaking or pickling those have a hal of bishel and therefore you're saying that the tam the flavor of that salted ginosha went through the entire as if it was cooked together himself said he himself is only by bishel itself but by he said that you can actually eat the meat as long as you stop before you get to the g. So even knowing there shouldn't be a problem with malik and kush and parathetically the definition of kush according to the Russian is 24 hours when something sits in liquid. right now trying to understand why would he as this salted meat now you want to say this that we say it's when you do the salting that's it only means it's like when it's cooked and then it should be completely user not like but from the very fact says later on if it's kush then it's like it's cooked so clearly when he said it's he meant that it's like through roasting it's le because otherwise he would have put them together moly and kvish but the fact that he makes them two separate alas. It must be that when he's talking about malik which is yavesh it's like a dry medium that's going to be just like the which is also there's no liquid to carry the time as opposed to pickled which is inherently different that the liquid of the pickling can actually carry the tam over. So because of that we b with aasha when you measure to see whether or not there's aim you measure with the liquid with the the sediment that sits at the bottom the heter and the pot the actual pot is also part of the what does that even mean? Some say that actually means the physical pot the walls of the pot meaning that material because since the tom spreads evenly throughout all that material of the walls of the pot. So now you can add that as part of the heter to comprise the 60 to1 ratio and some say it's going to be that much heter which was absorbed into the walls of the pot during the cooking process that is what you can add to the amount to comprise your shishim rashi himself who like throughout this the does a lot of sak says that we're not going to count the tam that's inside the kadra as we add up the shishim and here's where we're going to call it and pick it up with bavo for tomorrow's daf