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Chullin Daf 93
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All right, daf tzadi gimel. This is
shabbos's daf, we're picking it up 15
lines from the bottom of tzadi beis beis
omer of yitzchak bar shmuel bar marsa
omer rav. Lo yasur tireh elah kanai
kanais shibai. When the tireh asurs a
ged anasha, it's only asuring the soft
more edible parts of it, which are the
little offshoots of the ged anasha, not
the actual ged anasha itself, cuz that's
hard like a piece of wood. But ulis says
no, eitsu, it's takah inedible, but
tireh chiyuv a lot. The tireh asured to
eat that eits, if you will. That's gufu
with the tireh asured. Omer kavasi d'ul
mistabra. D'omer of sheishes omer of
assi, chuten shibacheil of asurin bein
chiyuvin aleihem. The chuten, the little
offshoots from the cheilev, they're
going to be these nerves and blood
vessels, they're going to be asur, but
you're not going to get kares, they're
only going to be an issur d'rabbonan.
Alma, cheilev omer rachmana, chuten.
When the tireh says cheilev, it's only
talking about the actual thing, and not
those chuten. Achinaimi, also by the ged
anasha, gid omer rachmana. Even if it's
only an inedible eits b'alma, v'lo iknai
kanais, and not those little offshoot
things. Okay, so now for the rest of the
daf today, we're going to talk all about
cheilev. Gufa, omer of sheishes omer of
assi, chuten shibacheil of asurin bein
chiyuvin aleihem. You're not going to be
chiyuv kares for eating cheilev when
you're eating the chuten. It's only
d'rabbonan. Shibakulyah, the chuten that
are in the kidney, asurin bein chiyuvin
aleihem. They're asur, but you're not
going to get kares, cuz it's only
d'rabbonan. Leiven kulyah, the white of
the kidney, meaning the fat of that
kidney. Rebbi v'Rebbi Chiya, there's a
machlokes Rebbi v'Rebbi Chiya that chad
asur v'chad shari. Rabba m'martei lei,
Rabba would kind of scoop it out, and
Rebbi Chiya also would be m'martei lei,
but Rebbi Assi got im lei, he would
scrape off the part that's on the
surface of the kidney, but he would
actually eat the part of that leiven,
the inside the kidney. Omer Rebbi kavasi
d'Rebbi Assi mistabra. D'omer Rebbi Yava
omer Rebbi Huda omer Shmuel, moving over
to mid alef, cheilev sh'al basar cheifa
asui mutar. Any part of the cheilev that
is covered by meat, that's not the
cheilev we're talking about. That kind
of thing would actually be mutar. The
only kind of cheilev that's asur is when
you take off the skin, you could see it
that it's on top of the meat. Alma,
sh'al hakasolim omer rachmana, only the
cheilev that's on the flanks of basar,
v'lo ish b'seicha kasolim. Achinaimi, so
too also when it comes to the kulyais,
sh'al hakulyais omer rachmana, v'lo ish
b'seicha kulyais. Gufa,
That part of the clay that's covered by
[clears throat] meat, that's really
inside the animal, that's going to be
okay. That's motor.
High tar beta two side mass near that
the clay that's under the loins is also
so if clay that's covered by meat is
motor, why should this be also? The clay
that's covered by that meat of the loins
on Arabia behind me
a rookie me Parker. Very interesting
ideas like the buyer the wild animals
alive since the animals moving and
things are kind of in flux between the
limbs and the organs and they separate
so the fat that's covered by the loins
at the time of its death while it's
alive it's considered uncovered. So
you're telling me it's covered it's not
really covered cuz it's alive cuz it's
considered by
a rookie me Parker. I'm a baby and love
you the love of the park I am neither a
or the son of a when you hear but it was
enlightened to me you know a lot of
the hockey have a day in the Russia that
this is what they would say in the
behind the higher rookie me Parker. Same
idea while the animals alive it's moving
around so it's considered like what's
covered up by the bus series really
uncovered. I'm a baby who I'm
a clay that I am so
sorry for the clay that's on these two
of the four stomachs the MC and the
basic
that's going to be also I am the real
McCoy of course is that clay that's on
the carrot that's the clay that's on the
carrot that the tires talking about when
the says what kind of clay that's this
kind of clay. I'm a baby who I'm a baby
who I'm a high tar beta to call me
sister also on a score is this clay
that's on the kill booster which is the
little bone at the base of the vertebrae
of the spine that's going to be also
and it's going to be here if you eat it
cuz that's the of the
the only I am a baby who I am a baby who
I am a who should be odd also in the
blood vessels those who in the yard
that's the four leg that's going to be
also I am a zebra my share which is an
expression of either
or just an exclamation is a double I am
a man take a picture did the tires say
that you can't eat meat? I mean even if
you take the dam out of this thing
you're not allowed to eat them. They're
regular meat not halal. I'm a rover.
Rover says back to Safra. My share.
Did the Torah say you're allowed to eat
the dam? Meaning those blood vessels of
that yard are not
because the walls of the blood vessels
were tuck absorbing all the dam and
therefore that's why you can't eat it.
But hot mouth here I feel like they're
in a separate dummy. But if you tuck it
cut it and salt it you do everything
you're supposed to do to take the dam
out then I can only you could even cook
it in the pot. I'm a river who don't
race me a bummer by a greyer. After the
food goes through that fourth stomach it
goes into the intestines. So before
getting to the small intestine it goes
through a long straight tube that the
Gamora's calling the race may I am which
is like the beginning of the intestine.
So in that area of the race may I am you
got to scrape it off and he's greyer to
remove the desert shall I duck in and
that's what's meant when we talk about
the that's on the intestines. The armor
of Yehuda who I guess the surin those
who tend those little threads of blood
vessels that are in the hip that branch
out of the lower spinal column that goes
towards those flanks they're also going
to be a sir. Come to who they is by the
calf law. There are five of the who tend
in the flanks and they're divided two
and three. Plus I mean the three are on
the right side of the animal they taught
they miss smaller and two are on the
left. Till sir the fat little tray tray
three on the right side branch into two
each and tray me fat little till sir
till sir and the two on the left side
branch into three each. Then I can only
why do I need to know this information?
Do you show a flu who are the coming may
miss tall faith and if one pulls out one
of these who tend while they're still
warm which is the way of saying right
after the sheet of the animal they'll
slide out with the branches you don't
have to dig after them. But if you lay
if you didn't do it while it was still
warm meaning right after the sheet and
then boy had to take the straw out now
you have to actually go dig into these
things to get all the little pieces of
the who tend that are no longer soft. So
of course now I need to know if I'm on
the right side or from the left side how
many who tend am I actually looking for
hence that descriptive information about
two and three etc. I'm a buyer who you
tell me of Yehuda commission who they
have either five groups of these who
tend to less than me some tar but three
of them are also Al Khailav. The Trei
Mishum Dama, and the other two are also
Al Dam. The Takhlei and the Kaflei and
the Khulyosa Mishum Tarba, those Khuten
of the spleen, the flanks, and the
kidney are going to be Assur Al Khailav.
The Yada and the Loya Mishum Dama, but
the Khuten of the foreleg and the jaw
are going to be Assur Al Dam. Now,
L'maina Afqimina, that's Hana Mishum
Dama, because the other ones are Assur
Al Dam. Im Mekhatakh L'Mola, Shafir
Dami, then if you tak a cut it properly
and salt it, and therefore you're
extracting a lot of Dam, it's going to
be Mutar. You're allowed to eat it. But
Hana L'asli Takanta, but the other ones,
the earlier ones that are Assur Al
Khailav, there's nothing you can do
about it. They cannot be fixed. Amar Rav
Kahana b'Teima Rav Yehuda, Khamisha
Karmei Havayah, there are five Assur
Dika Karmei membranes. Tlosa Mishum
Tarba, three of them are also Al
Khailav. The Trei Mishum Dama, and two
are also Al Dam. The Takhlei, the
Kaflei, and the Khulyosa Mishum Tarba,
the spleen, flanks, and kidneys are
Assur Al Khailav. The Bayei, which is
the Zakhros of the animal, and the
Marka, Mishum Dama, and the brain will
be Assur Al Dam. Rav Yehuda Bar Ashi
Havah K'Kholaf Lei Talcha L'Levi,
Breidera Rav Huna Bar Khaiya. So, Rav
Yehuda Bar Ashi was one time peeling the
membrane of a spleen for Levi, which was
Breidera Rav Huna Bar Khaiya, because
who doesn't want to have a spleen for
lunch? And Havah K'Gali Aslei M'Eilai,
and he was like leveling off the spleen
by taking the membrane only from the top
part, but not from the lower area. Amar
Lei Zakh Levi Taim, "Khus B'Tvei, you
got to dig deeper into that thing, into
the lower area, because that lower area
is also going to be Assur because of the
attached Khailav." So, also Rav Huna
Ashkakhay, Rav Huna Bar Khaiya came, so
Levi's father, Rav Huna Bar Khaiya came
and found him telling Rav Yehuda Bar
Ashi to take away the whole membrane.
Amar Lei and said to the son, "Akhyami
V'Udi Makh Mishum D'Rav, that this is
what your father's mother said b'Sheim
Rav." U'Manu and Prakhta Gamara, who is
Levi's maternal grandfather who Taka was
quoting Rav? That's Rav Yirmiya Bar
Abba. But anyway, what did he say? "Lei
Assur Teira Ela Al B'Dad Bilvad." The
only time the Teira Assur that area of
the spleen's membrane which was over the
Dad. The Dad was some kind of
nipple-like connector inside the Kishkes
of the animal. But you see, you don't
have to take away that whole membrane
from the lower part of the spleen. Ai,
any is that true? The Omar bar Hamnuna,
Tanna, the braisa learned, krumsha al
treil is ossur. That membrane that's on
the spleen is ossur. Vein chiyuv al lov
b'chinuch kares for eating it. It's a
now chiyuv d'oraita. What's the braisa
talking about? E l'mish al hadad, that's
the area that we were just talking
about. I'll say am I in chiyuv al lov
b'chinuch kares? Rav said that this
thing is ossur mid'oraita and should be
chiyuv kares. Ella, the kulya, must be
talking about the membrane of the entire
spleen besides that dad. And it's
teaching us that even this part of that
membrane is going to be ossur
mid'erabbanan. Amar lei, Rav Huna bar
Chiya says to his son Levi, "Uk itanya
tanya." I stand corrected. If that's the
way it is, okay, then I'm asking. Goofa,
let's get the more expansive version of
that member from Rav Hamnuna. Amar Rav
Hamnuna, Tanna, we learned in the
braisa, krumsha al treil is ossur. The
membrane that's on the spleen is ossur.
Vein chiyuv al lov b'chinuch kares.
Krumsha al gabei kulya is ossur. The
membrane that's on the kidney is ossur.
Vein chiyuv al lov and you're not chiyuv
kares for eating it. Now the braisa
tanya, I the braisa says al gabei each
one of these things chiyuv and all of
you are chiyuv kares. Tarei it says,
treila treila kasha, how can you get a
dad? By the second braisa that you're
going to be chiyuv kares for eating it,
it's talking about the part of the
membrane that is opposite the dad. Oh,
d'lo k'negad a dad, but where as the
first braisa that you're not chiyuv
kares, it's talking about where it's not
connected to dad. Kulya kulya namlei
kasha, why? Ho b'eilu, where the second
braisa says that you are going to be
chiyuv kares for eating it, it's talking
about the upper area. Ho b'satu ah,
where the first braisa says you're not
chiyuv kares, it's talking about that
lower membrane. Fighter. B A chashiosa,
the B A zachrus, mean the betzim of the
animal, they are detached but they're
still inside the skin of the animal. So,
they're detached but they're still
locally there. It's kind of like that
aver mudal d'al us that we had in the
last sugias over there by ailu treifus.
Rav Ami verav Assi, this is a machlokes
Rav Ami and Rav Assi. Chad ossur,
they're going to be ossur because
they're considered aver min hachai
despite the fact that they're still in
the animal but they're disconnected
internally, so therefore considered aver
min hachai. V'chad shari, manda ossur
turning over to my base mid'loi
k'baryan, since they don't regenerate
and heal, so they're not really
connected to the animal, therefore honey
aver min hachai ninu, therefore now
they're going to be aver min hachai cuz
they're disconnected. Omanda shari, and
what's the rationale to say it's not
aver menachai? Me de loiko masrachan
from the fact that they haven't decayed
in that matzev, they're not like
disconnected boser. So how do you use
this? Well, they're still getting chiyus
from the animal and therefore they're
not ever menachai. Now if you either if
you hold that they are considered ever
menachai, hide de loiko masrachan, this
that they don't decompose, de loiko
sholt be hu avira, it's not because they
still considered connected to the body
of the animal, it's because they're not
exposed to the elements outside. The
either and the bar pluto who holds that
they're not considered detached is going
to say, hide de levarian, this that they
don't heal and regenerate is because
kishishu so who did not get low it's
only because they are kochish, they are
weak, but they are still drawing life
from the makor of the animal and
therefore even though they are getting
some sort of life from their source,
since they can't regenerate and heal,
they will not be considered part of the
animal. Amaleira Biyechana and Lurev
Shimon bar Rava, hani beye kashilosa
sharian, these baytim that are mainly
disconnected but are still inside the
animal are muter le halacha, but at le
tegel, but don't eat them. Mishum val
tito teresimacha, because you go bust
with the meaning of where you're from
and therefore they wouldn't eat them, so
you shouldn't eat them either. Omar Mar
bar Rava Ashi, hani beye de gadya, let's
talk about the baytim of this gadya,
it's a kosher animal. Ad tlas in yamin
sharian buli klifa, until Ar Chad Gadya
here is 30 days old, you're allowed to
eat them without taking off any of the
klipa of the membrane. Me kam ve elach,
e azran asuran, if they've developed
zara inside of them, they're going to be
osser until you can peel off the
membrane, because it's a siman that the
dam is going to be functional and
therefore you have to worry about the
dam. Ve eloy azran sharian, but if they
haven't developed zara, then they're
muter even without taking off this
klipa. We know you have to know how can
you tell whether or not these baytim
have the zara in them. If the Gemara is
bushriki sumki asuran, if they have
these red streaks, they're going to be
osser because then you see the blood
vessels. Less bushriki sumki sharian,
and you may remember this expression of
shuki sumki they about these red
streaks. We had it in Maseches Brachos
and Maseches Avodah Zarah by, I forgot
who the amera was, who wanted to curse a
certain men, they wanted to find that
moment of anger when Hashem had anger
and he would look at the chicken and
when he sees the top part of it has the
shuki sumki, has the little red spots
because of the blood vessels, then he
knew that was the moment of anger for
Hashem. Okay, umtze, piece of raw meat
that has red discolorations because of
ruptured blood vessels, or bayah, that's
the base of the animal. Who mizrakeh in
the blood vessels of the neck. On these
things, pleigi bar of Achai ver Ravina.
Now, bechol detera kulah, whenever these
Amoraim would have a machlokes, and we
didn't know who said what, we would say
Ravina le kulah ver Achai le chumra. The
halacha is like Ravina le kulah. Le bar
me hanislas, except for these three
things we just mentioned, that Ravacha
le kulah ver Ravina is le chumra. The
halacha is like Ravacha le kulah, that
we go basar, the more kulah dikah
halacha. Now, let's go through these
things. Um, say, the ashmik, a piece of
raw meat that turned red because of all
the ruptured blood vessels. Chotcho u
malcho, if you look there on the
mishafed ami. If you cut it and salt it,
then you can even put it in the pot and
cook it and have supper with it.
Talyanami bishvudah, doyev dama. Also,
if you roast it on a spit, it's going to
be mutar, cuz the blood comes out during
the roasting. Agmurei, but if you roast
it on hot coals, pleigi bar of Achai ver
Ravina. Chad amar, mishav she'ivi leis.
One of them says that the heat will draw
the dam out, and therefore that'll be
mutar the meat. The Chad amar, mitzmas
tzamtzalei. The heat makes the meat
shrivel up, it retains the dam that's
stuck inside, and therefore it'll be
assur. The chein, bay, and the same
thing applies to the base of the animal.
The chein, mizrakein, and also the same
thing applies to the blood vessels in
its neck. Reishay be kivsha. Let's say
you have a head that's buried in the
kivsha, which Rashi learns is the hot
ashes that would singe off the hair of
the animal. So, okay, so this head of
the animal is inside these hot ashes.
Oisvei abeis ashchita. If you put it on
the place of its shchita, meaning you
put the ashes in an upright position
with the severed neck on the bottom.
Doyev dama vishari. So, the dam goes
right up through the open neck, and
therefore the head is going to be mutar
to eat. Ats dadan, but let's say the
head is now on its side, then it's a
problem cuz mikpa kafei ve'asur. The
blood is going to congeal inside the
skull since it can't escape from the
opening, and therefore it's going to be
assur alts dam. Oisvei anachirei. If you
put the head on its nostrils, like face
down, then datsbei me dishari. If you
stuck something into the nostrils to
hold it open and allow the blood to go
out, then the head will be mutar.
Ve'ilai also, if you don't stick
anything in the nose, it's going to be
assur. Orech de'amri anachiro abeis
ashchita doyev. If you put the head on
its nostrils or on the place of its
shchita, then the dam will be able to
get out and therefore it's going to be
mutar, but I still don't know if it's on
its side. Then he doubts by me the shaar
if you stuck something into the skull to
puncture it, then the head will be mutar
because the blood will go out through
the puncture. Below, it'll be assur and
it'll be no good. Amar Rav Yehuda Amar
Shmuel, shnei gidin hein der two gida
nashim that go through the thigh.
Ha'pnimiyus samuch l'atzam, the inner
one is close to the bone is assur
v'chayav alav. That's the one you get
malkus for eating. That's the real McCoy
of the gida nasha. But chitzon samuch
l'basar, the outer one which is closer
to the basar, assur v'ein chayav alav.
It's also made by Rabbanan to eat it and
therefore you're not going to get
malkus. I have a Tanya the brayta says
pnimiyus samuch l'basar, the inner one
which is close to the basar is assur and
you're going to get malkus. Amar Rav
Nachman Amar Rav Kahana, ikludei miklid.
When the brayta is talking about the
inner one that's close to the basar,
that's because after passing over the
thigh bone, it sticks itself into the
basar like a key. So as Rashi explains,
when the brayta says that inner one,
it's not talking about the one that's
located inner one, it's talking about
why it's called the inner one because
even though it initially is on top of
the basar, but at some point it will go
down like a key that gets inserted into
a keyhole. I have a Tanya the brayta
says chitzon na samuch l'atzam, the one
that's close to the bone is going to be
assur and you're not going to get malkus
for eating it. It's also made by
Rabbanan. Amar Rav Yehuda, heicha
d'parei topchei. The brayta is talking
about the outer one that's close to the
etzem at the point when the shochet is
uncovering it because he separates the
thigh from the hip. Itmar, tabach
she'nimtza cheilev v'achav. Let's say
you have a shochet that you found
cheilev by him. So he did the wrong
thing because it's the achrayus of the
shochet to get rid of the cheilev before
selling it to the public. Now we trust
these shochtim, but let's say now you
find that he had cheilev. So Rav Yehuda
Amar, b'chisa oira, he's going to be
punished even if it was just the size of
a se'ora of cheilev. And Rav Nachman
Amar, b'chisa ayis, if it was a kazayis.
Amar Papa v'Amar Rav Pappa, kan Amar Rav
Kaiso, Amar Rav Nachman said it has to
be a kazayis because he's talking about
the shochet getting malkus. But kan Amar
Rav Nachman, where did Rav Yehuda say
that it's going to be a se'ora? He was
talking about just firing him from his
job. Even the smallest shiur would be a
firable offense. Amar Rav Zutra,
k'se'ora b'makom echad. When we talk
about the se'ora, we're talking about
what's on one location. B'chisa ayis af
ilu b'shnayim u'v'shlosha makomos, that
can be mistaref together to be a
problem. The hilchasa l'halacha k'Rav
Kaiso.
Is because
in the mission said
do not trust
removing the
that's what said
they are
later on they change their opinion and
said that the are
to remove the
you
think things got better like all of a
sudden now that
catches that didn't exist before and
what do you mean we know the opposite is
not
not that people get more trustworthy and
the Gamora me
taking the
means you got to take even the parts
that are very deeply embedded in the
thigh so
the weren't trusted because that was
really hard to do all the
since the
only have to take away the easier
smaller more accessible part of the
which is much easier now you can trust
the to do it properly you can
earn and
all of it the say that the
trusted to take away the
and the
and later on they said that the are not
going to be trusted
that the are not going to be trusted
but today we do trust the
are what things got better in the
generations now
it's easier to remove the and therefore
they trusted them but it's harder to
remove the
so have
the who the as long as the remember the
way they used to do it which was based
on
they were not going to be allowed to go
like the over of mayor but
the
now that they forgotten already and
they're no longer holding on to that
muscle memory of what used to happen
like she does
and they're only going like
now we can be my men them and the
mission finally ends
the
argue with the and said that they are
trusted they
so
we were talking about
so why
why are talking about
so
this is the Mishnah and
so it means also talking about
and after
so really we're talking about the whole
time. All right, we're going to pick it
up with the Mishnah number for Sunday
stuff.