Chullin Daf 8

All right, daf ches, Friday's daf, where we get back into hilchos shita, but first we got a little more agadata to do. So let's pick it up Zion and base nine lines from the bottom. Ain oid milvadei. So I'm going to be Chanina via feel look shofim, meaning if someone really has the madrega of recognizing the yichud of ain oid milvadei, then even witchcraft can't hurt them. In case in point, hahi itza, there was an isha, a woman, I guess a witch, to have us come a hadralamishkol offer, she was trying to take the dirt mitusi karei d'Rebbi Chanina from under the feet of Reb Chanina because she wanted to kill him with her kishuf and she needed the dirt under his feet for that. Omar Rabbah he said, "Shkula, lady you can take this dirt because leima stay in milsech, it's not going to help because ain oid milvadei k'siv." Prak the Gemara Omar Rebbi Yochana and lama nikra shmon kshofim, the reason why kshofim is called kshofim is shema kishin pamalia shel mala, it somehow weakens shamayim, meaning it really does have an effect and it shouldn't matter even if you have an ain oid milvadei madrega. Which the Marsha says shani Rebbi Chanina didn't afisha shkusei. Rebbi Chanina was on a different plane, he had extra shmira from Hashem and therefore he had nothing to worry about. Now of course there's a general machlokes about how real is the witchcraft between the Rambam and the Ramban. The Rambam says a lot of these things are sleight of hand and this Gemara really does seem to imply that kishuf has a real world impact, more like our understanding of the Ramban. So you got to work out this Gemara with that issue. Ya'amar Rebbi Chanina, in adam neikef etzbo im mata, nobody hurts their finger or perhaps this means you don't stub your toe on this world el im kein machriz alav mil mala, there's a very specific hashgacha protis that happens me shamayim shenemar me Hashem mitz'adei gever kein anei, v'adam mayavin darkai. So this implies that every foot fall of a person is nigzar from shamayim and therefore even stubbing your toe is a gzeira me shamayim. Omar Rebbi Elazar, dam neikef miratzki dam oila, the blood that comes from stubbing one's toe is like the dam that comes from a carbon oila. And Omar Rabbah, the gudel yamin u'venei kishani, this is talking about the big toe on the right foot and the second time you stub it which is much more painful. U'de kazal d'var mitzvah, and this is if you're going to do a mitzvah, which the Marsha points out is l'chareidi challenging because shluchai mitzvah einan nizakin, so if you're going to do mitzvah, but it won't help if a person has improper machshavahs, and therefore Zok the Marsha since a carbon oila is machaper for machshavahs, so that's why the person on his way to do the mitzvah stubs his toe to take care of that problem, so therefore he will now have the s'chus of ain nizakin. And now finishing up on Mar love of Rebbi Pinchas ben Yair, miyom v'le batel prusta she nishala, he never ate anybody else's bread, meaning he never wanted to take from anyone else. U'miyam she'oman al daite, from the time he became a bardas, lein anaim isur asur, they didn't even eat from his own parents' table. He really took the sign of matan Torah thing very far. Moving over to mid aleph, amar Rebbi Zeira amar Shmuel, leibain sakin v'shachit ba, if somebody makes a knife very hot and then did a sh'chita with it, sh'chita secheira, why? V'chaira you made it into a nevala with the heat. No, because chidud choidem leibuna, the sharpness of the knife is what really did the killing over here and not the heat of the knife. A, but you could study in the sides of the knife are going to burn the simanei sh'chita before the sh'chita is completed and that will make the animal into a nevala. So like the Gemara, no, because base achi meravach rovach, as the knife cuts, it separates the simanim, and therefore the sides of the knife don't even actually burn anything. So now we're going to compare these halachas to hilchos tzara'as to make some points over here about Shmuel's halacha. Eiboy alahu, leibain sh'pud v'heekah bei, let's say someone heated up a sh'pud, spit, and then hurt somebody with it. And then the guy got tzara'as on that area where he had his wound. So the psukim give us different rules for these things. Some mishum sh'chin nidon, some mishum michva nidon, how do we look at this area where there is both the wound from the sh'pud and the tzara'as? How do we treat it? So lemaina nafka mina, to which the Gemara says, look at the Tanya, sh'chin u'michva metamin b'shavua echad b'shnei simanim, both tzara'as of a sh'chin and the tzara'as of a michva will make the person tamei at the end of one week as long as there are both symptoms of basar loven u've pisyon, basar loven being the white hair that grows out of the tzara'as and the pisyon is the spreading, the kohen will now say that this is a tzara'as. So lama chilkin achas, why the Torah even separate them? Leima sheim itzdarfin zeh im zeh, you don't get the minimum shiur to make the tuma if they each independently don't have the requisite amount to be called tzaraas. V'itsna and we learned in the ninth perek of niga'im, azei ushchin v'azei michveh, how do we define them differently? Loka b'eitz o v'even, someone was hit with one of these objects, b'gefas b'chamai t'ria, or the stuff from the olives that were in the heat of chamai t'ria, uv'chol davar she'lo ba machmas or, anything that's not really bad some fire. And just to explain this part of the mishna, l'asuyei avar mei'ikarei, that's including the lead that comes from the mine, which is so hot that it can actually injure a person. Getting back to the mishna, zehu shchin, any of the things that were in the list that we just gave is called shchin, meaning it's a regular wound due to the zets and not the fire. V'azei michveh, and what's a burn that comes from the fire? That's nichveh b'gachalim u'v'remetz, either from hot coal or ashes, or b'sidrei se'ach, the gips sis re'ach, or the boiling lime, uv'chol davar she'lo ba machmas or, anything that comes from fire. These are sources of heat that actually give you a burn. L'asuyei cham ha'or, that line uv'chol davar she'lo ba machmas or is including even water, hot water. So if the mishna is zu hi michveh, anything in this list will be classified as a michveh. V'itanya, the braisa says, shchin u'michveh, if you have both a shchin and a michveh in the very same place, same shchin kodem l'amichve, then bitul michve es hashchin, so then the burn overtakes the shchin, and therefore we're going to classify any tzaraas that happens in that area as a michve. V'im michve kodem es hashchin, bitul shchin es hamichve, so now the shchin that will overtake the michve, and therefore any tzaraas is going to have the classification and the halachas of the shchin. So now v'halacha heichi dami, what about our case? Going to have a b'chatzi gris shchin u'michve, first this guy had not the full share, only a chatzi gris of a shchin. The leibain shpud v'hikahu, someone heated up the shpud and then hit him with it, giving him a zets right by that shchin. V'nofek b'chatzi gris acher, and then another chatzi gris of tzaraas came next to the original one. So my, so how do we look at these different pieces of the tzaraas? Do we say chovta kodem, do we say that the zets happened first, v'osi havla, umavata leilech havta, and then the burn that happened afterwards kind of overtakes the zets, v'havalei shchin u'michve, and now we're going to look at this whole matziv as a shchin u'michve, v'lo im starve, and therefore they won't be having the sheer of tsaraas. I don't know then maybe burn happened first but I'll see to my little heart love and now the zetz that happens afterwards takes over and therefore who made stuff. So to that we're going to use our Sugya and I remember from Shmuel to make a psak on that tsaraas shaila. Leib ain sakan the shochet bo. If someone heats up a knife and shechts with it shaira. Why? Because kadimly buna alma to kadim. This memra of Rav Zeira and Shmuel should tell us that it's the zetz, it's the hit that comes before the burn and that's why it's going to make for a kosher shchita. And likewise it'll end up being that these chotzi grisin will not be for the tsaraas. There's a Chasam Sofer that brings from his rebbe the Hafla'ah that says that the Purim seudah of the Hafla'ah, the Hafla'ah once said that how did Rav Zeira know which happens first in the mesirah? And the Hafla'ah wanted to suggest that when Rav Zeira was gishachtin at the Purim seudah on daf zayin in Megillah, it could have been that was done with a hot knife. So could be that Rav Zeira is saying this about his own experience to know that what killed him before he was brought back to life was the chidud, the sharpness of the knife before the libun of the knife. Rav Gross pointed out that although this is very gishmak, Rav Zeira is not saying his own memory here. Rather Rav Zeira is saying this bishaim Shmuel. So to say that this is Rav Zeira's aidus about himself when he's ibrazugging Shmuel's memra takes a little bit away from this gishmakness of the Hafla'ah's word. But anyway Rav Aryeh from our Sugya to that shaila of negai'im which the Gemara says chidushaini, you can't compare the sharp edge of a knife to the spit because the heat on the edge of the knife is less stark than on a flat surface which I guess has more surface area like the spit, like the shpud. So even though by a knife you'll say chidud libun, we may not say by the shpud. Tashma leib ain shpud veheka bei. The braisa says if someone heated up the shpud and then hit somebody with it we treat it like it's a burn. Alma chabala kadim must be that the zetz, the hit is maktim the burn and therefore the michvas aish will overtake it and that's why we need michvas aish. Which also the Gemara says because chasam nami the barzel mivraz. We're talking about a sharpened spit the chidud. So, it's really the same thing as the knife. And therefore, in that case, the Zetz precedes the burn. But, if you really just hit him with, let's say, the broad side of the spit, you could say the Michva would precede the Zetz. And therefore, we leave this as a Shayla. Okay, weiter. Amar Rav Nachman, Amar Rabbah bar Avuha, Sakin shel Avodas Kochavim. Let's say you have a knife that was used for Avoda Zara, which is, of course, assur b'hana'ah, but still, muttar lishchot bah. You can still shecht with it, cuz you're not getting hana'ah from it. V'assur lachatech b'vasar. You can't use it in your kitchen to cut up pieces of meat. Now, let's explain. Muttar lishchot bah, because because m'kalkel hu. I'm not getting hana'ah from the shechita, because an animal's worth a lot of money, a live animal. Once I shecht it, I have now been m'kalkel it, because it's worth much less. But, likewise, v'assur lachatech b'vasar, but I can't cut up pieces of meat, cuz m'saken hu. Because cut up meat is more valuable than the uncut up meat. So, it all depends on the case. And Amar Ravah, I'll break it down even more specifically. Pa'amim she'shecht assur, sometimes it'll be assur to do the shechita, cuz it will be a hana'ah. When? But, m'sukan es. Let's say the animal's about to drop dead. If it dies, it will be a valueless n'veilah. So, it's really important to shecht it right now. And that's why it'll be assur to use a knife of Avoda Zara. Umachatech muttar, but sometimes you'll be allowed to cut it. When are you hurting it with a cutting? But, am teida kaiman l'korbana. By cutting up a very chashuv piece of meat into smaller pieces. You want to take this big cowboy steak and make it into little cubes. It's a shanda. You want to serve it as this big festive piece of meat. So, cutting it up is actually going to devalue it, and therefore it's muttar to use the sakin shel Avoda Zara. Preikta Amar Rav Nachman, you have a different problem with the sakin shel Avoda Zara. But, teiku l'ei, Mishum Shamnunes d'issura. What did you use this sakin shel Avoda Zara for? To cut animals for Avoda Zara. So, there's treifa b'lias in there, the Shamnunes. And therefore, you can't use that treifa knife. Turning over Tamid Beis B'Chadasha. It was an unused knife of Avoda Zara. So, therefore, there is no b'lias. Preikta Amar Chadasha. So, then what's it assur for? Bein l'Rebbi Yishmael, bein l'Rebbi Akiva. Mishamsha Avodas Kochavim hin. They're only the mishamshim. They're not the actual Avoda Zara themselves. Umishamsha Avodas Kochavim, einan assurin, ach ya'avdu. There's no hazmana for mishamsha Avodas Kochavim, whether or not you hold like Rebbi Yishmael or Rebbi Akiva, cuz their machlokes is in regard to the hazmana of an actual Avoda Zara. So, we're not talking about a new knife, cuz that wouldn't be assur in the The place. So, the Gemara's maskana may be the same. tell you that this knife the possuk bigavza love it is maybe it was never used to cut animals. Maybe it was actually used for avoda zara as mishamash avoda zara but to cut wood or something else like that and therefore there's no bleas of issur or me by you say maybe it was used to cut up animals but you live in the war. It was koshered but you only koshered from the bleas it's still is considered a sack of avoda zara. Itmar hasheches the sack of avoda zara Rav Amar Kaylife if you do the shchita with such a knife you peel back that area that the knife touched on the kosher animal before you eat it. Rav Amar Rav Kahana Amar Madiaf you just need to wash off that area and we don't have to worry about bleas getting into the meat itself. So Rav Amar Rav Kahana the Gamara's over base shchita tzeinin according to Rav Amar Rav Kahana that since the makom of shchita is too cold to be absorbing any of the shamnunis from the sack Rav Amar Rav Kahana according to Rav that place where you cut in the animal is hot enough to be mavlia some of the shamnunis and some of those bleas which the Gamara says light the kuliyama base shchita that area is considered hot and it would absorb the issur. So Rav Amar Rav Kahana the one who says you got to peel it off makes sense because it would absorb. But Rav Amar Rav Kahana the one who says you don't need to peel it back but rather just washing it off why is that good enough? Because I need to treat this since the simanei beheima are pushing out lafuke dam lebali the bleas are not going to swim upstream here. You got these simanei beheima that are pushing dam out so that is going to work to your benefit because now all you need to do is rinse it off and you can now eat it. Or you can kuliyama base shchita tzeinin maybe it's too cold to absorb any of the issur. So Rav Amar Rav Kahana shaper that makes sense if you just have to rinse it off because it was cold but Rav Amar Kaylife why do I need to be so much more to peel it back? Because I got this sakina bola you're pushing hard with the knife and therefore there's more of reason to have bleas so I need to now do this Kaylife process. Sakin trayfa let's say a knife was used to shecht a trayfa animal. So Rav Amar Rav Kahana how do I deal with the kashrus of such a knife? Rav Amar Rav Kahana you got to do it through hot water. The hot water Rav Kahana feel the tzeinin as long as I rinse it off the bleasa the parcel if there's a hard cloth that you want to use it to wipe let's say then I don't even need to wash it off with the water. I could just use this cloth to clean it. If you're going to hold that the second shall treif, you need to have common my time I'm using the Kabbalah you saw cuz you hold that the knife was absorbing these bleas from the treif. If that's the case that the treif is considered bleas, the heter and ami bola by a regular shrita, as you're shiting the dam that goes into the knife is dam of ever mena because the shrita only happens at the end of the shrita and therefore you should need common which the says Amos Bala, when does that second absorb? Only the hot place of that shrita. And Amos Kacheima, when does it get hot? It's only when the shrita is all completed. And at that point the animal now is already mutla achila so therefore there is no ever mena at that point for it to absorb. The butcher is going to have three individual separate knives. What he does is he uses to cut the meat. The one he uses to cut away the verma surum the cholev. The part that you're not allowed to eat. Three independent knives. Just have one knife. Just have one knife. Just don't do the cholev first. First cut up the heter and then cut away the issur. And therefore you can save yourself on a knife. But which the says yeah, but we don't want that because the if you do it out of order you're going to have a problem. If you have multiple knives and you have a dedicated knife for the cholev you still should have a making sure you don't confuse them. No, because since I need to have two separate knives, one for the cholev and one for the other kosher stuff is lay achira. We're going to assume he's going to make some kind of a little piece of blue or red tape or however you make your different little simonum on your knives in your kitchen. The butcher is going to have two different knives. You always need to have two different of water. One you're going to wash the butcher with. The one for kosher one for non kosher. Same thing with this kind of make one but don't do it in the right order. So you don't treif up the water. You might do it in the wrong order. Even if you have two different pictures of water, you might confuse them. Now, because that's since now you have to have two different ones, you get your milk and your flesh and sink is like a camera. You won't confuse them. And this is where we'll call it and pick it up from here for Shabbos's daf.