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Chullin Daf 66
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All right, daf samech vav, this is
Sunday's daf. We're picking up at the
top of samech vav aleph. The Gemara is
going on the two braces. One was the
Taurus Kanim, which we're going to call
the Tana Devei Rav. That was on samech
chesed aleph, like the three lines that
the Gemara quoted by the makor for the
which government are going to be mutar.
And then we brought the Tana Devei Rebbi
Shmuel, which basically took us until
the whole end of yesterday's daf, which
was more than an amud long, which was a
different version of seemingly the same
kind of an idea that these are the
following kosher chagavim. So the Gemara
says, "Ma yikam miflagei Tana Devei Rav
v'Tana Devei Rebbi Shmuel?" What's the
nafka mina between these two different
versions of what appears to be almost
the same thing?
Which the Gemara says, "B'rashei aroch
kamiflagei." Specifically about that
kind of grasshopper that has the rashei
aroch, the long head. Tana Devei Rav
sover meaning from samech chesed aleph
because the pasuk says, "Asher lo
chirayim klal." If it has these jumping
legs, that's a klal. Then the Torah
lists the specific names of arbeh,
salam, chargol, chagav, and those are
all l'mineihu, according to their kind.
That'll be a prat, dafka those. So klal
u'prat im klal u'prat. It has to be its
kind of mineihu d'minei ein d'lav minei
loi. And therefore, if it's not that
same min, it's not going to be kosher.
U'merabi d'damei l'mishnas d'dodin, also
the Tana of that Devei Rav of Taurus
Kanim is only b'marbeh that which seems
to be similar to one of those four that
the Torah specifically lists, meaning it
has the four characteristics of the four
legs and the two jumping legs and the
long wings, but not that it and also
that does not have a rashei aroch. So it
sounds like that rashei aroch would not
be kosher. That's all from the samech
chesed aleph braysa. But Tana Devei
Rebbi Shmuel sover, "Asher lo chirayim
is klal." If it has these jumping legs,
that's considered a klal. Arbeh, salam,
chargol, and chagav, that's going to be
a prat, specifically those grasshoppers.
L'mineihu, oh, he learns klal over prat.
According to Tana Devei Rebbi Shmuel,
that mineihu is coming back to me
another klal, and therefore klal u'prat
u'klal yehei done l'kein ha'prat.
U'merabi kol d'damei l'vachad et tzod,
therefore the Tana of Tana of Rebbi
Yishmael is being mar by anything that
seems to be similar to those specific
grasshoppers even in one prot. It has
one of those characteristics. As long as
one of those characteristics will be
kosher even if it has the rosh yarach.
So there's your nafka mina between Tana
of Rebbi Yishmael and Tana of Rebbi
Yishmael whether or not rosh yarach will
be bechlal. By the way, the Tana of
Rebbi Yishmael is a machlokes between
Rashi and Rambam what it is. According
to Rashi, it's the tairus kainim. But
according to the Rambam, it's just
something that was learned by a lot of
people. The Rebbi Yishmael doesn't mean
the person Rebbi Yishmael, it means it
was a learned by a lots. Now from the
Gemara, according to Rebbi Yishmael,
there's a klal uprat uprat. From the
Gemara, dummy klal kamah basar. Because
the jumping legs is not similar to the
minayhu at the end. It's two different
kinds of klals. So klal kamah ashrei
karayim umrah Rachmana. The shlay choyel
those ones you're allowed to eat
irrespective of any other kinds of
tinayim. The shlay choyel choyel if it
doesn't have the jumping legs, you're
not allowed to eat it. But klal basar is
not the same thing. It's minayhu ad
d'shuv b'simanim. It sounds like it has
to be doimeh to all four simanim. So how
can you combine the klal in the
beginning where they're two different
kinds of klals? To which the Gemara
says, no problem. Tana of Rebbi Yishmael
klal uprat key gavna doin. He does these
kinds of klal uprat uprat. According to
Rebbi Yishmael, that's an okay klal
uprat uprat. We learn in the Gemara
b'alma, we see in other locations that
way. The Tana of Rebbi Yishmael klal
uprat key gavna. And how do I know to
say that? May hacha. This is going to be
the muker for the way Tana of Rebbi
Yishmael learns klal uprat uprat. Omar
Meyer, eesh my chaga if the name of this
kind of insect is called a chagav, that
will be mutar. But yochol ain by kol
simanim alahu. It sounds like you would
have thought that if it's called a
chagav, even if it doesn't have any of
the other simanim, it'll be okay to be
eaten. Talmed lomar l'minayhu. To teach
us that actually kol simanim it's not
just about the name chagav, but actually
has to have the other characteristics.
Now from the Gemara, does that make
sense? Ain by kol simanim may taysi. If
it doesn't have any other simanim, just
cuz it's called a chagav, that wouldn't
make any sense. If you call a rabbit a
chagav, it's going to be kosher all of a
sudden? It doesn't work that way. Arba
chagav tzid. L'maisa, the tairus spells
out that the kashrus is going to be
specifically by an arba and a chagav.
It's because they have simanim, not just
because they're called Chagav. And we
think more because it likes the Sulam,
Kedei Gamur, that if it's Sulam, which
was that extra one on the list of four
different kinds of Chagavim, you would
have been right that we never would have
thought that you could just go with the
name Chagav, and that would be enough to
be kosher. You need to have the simanim.
But Hashas Sulam Lerabui Lerosh Arach,
now that we're including this wider
definition of even the Rosh Arach that
we're learning from Sulam, even though
the other specific grasshoppers that the
Torah said do not have these long heads,
so you see that you don't really need to
have all the characteristics of those
specific ones that the Torah mentions.
So Amar Lerabui Nami Kol Dehu, as long
as you have Epis, some kind of Siman of
Kashrus, that should be enough, as long
as it's called a Chagav. Kamashma the
Torah tells us by saying Lemineihu that
they have to be Domeh to the ones with
all four of the Tenayim. So Ma Ishna
Hashas De Ko Amar, so why by the Braisa
of Torahs Keinim from the Torah of De
Rav, you're saying that Sulam is a Rosh
Ein Chagav, and Nipol. Umashna Hashas De
Ko Amar, but by Torah of De Rav Ishmael,
we say Sulam is a Nipol, and Chagav is a
Rosh Ein. So we're trying to steer in
these two different Braisas. And the
Gemara asks, Makhi Asur, Makhi Asur.
Depends where they're from in their
respective location, they define these
things differently. And that is that.
We're done with Chagavim, now we move on
to fish. Uvedogim Kol SheYesh Bo Snapir
UveKaskeses, fish are kosher as long as
they have Snapir, which are fins, and
Kaskeses, which are scales. Tana
Rabbanan, the Braisa says, Ein Lo
Achshav Asur Legodlo Achshav. Let's say
the fish doesn't have the fins and
scales now, cuz it's still a little baby
fish, but it's going to grow them later.
Kegain Hasultonis, Afyon, Halacha is
Harei Zeh Mutar, they're allowed to be
eaten now. Yesh Lo Achshav, also
likewise, if a fish has fins and scales
now, but Ve'osid Lehashir, and later on
they're going to come off Veshosha Oilam
UveOilam, when they come out of the
water. Kegain Turning Over Tam UveBayis,
Akunas, Uve'apunas, Kesiftias,
Achasiftias, and Ve'atunas. These
different five kind of fish are all
going to be Mutar, even though when they
take them out of the water, their scales
seem to have fallen off. And these seem
to be different kinds of tuna. And one
might say this is Yaldai Tuna Tuna, as
the Gemara sometimes says, Tuna Tuna.
Okay, that's a terrible joke.
Now the Gemara brings from the Mishna in
Niddah, Tana Hasham, Kol SheYesh Bo
Kaskeses Yesh Bo Snapir, any fish that
has scales will certainly have fins.
It doesn't work the other way around.
Sometimes they can have fins and no
scales.
It has both simanim, dog tohar.
But the mission is telling us that we
automatically know if it has scales
because it will also have fins. So
michti,
bottom line is just look to see if it
has the scales. So lift kaskeses
Why do I even have to talk about
snappers? Everything is because he talks
Snapper
but only works if kaskeses have a meaner
my kaskeses. Snapper I would define
kaskeses as snapper. That feel dog tummy
and that would even go on a not kosher
fish that has fins but doesn't have
scales. So kaskeses
to see that they're two different
things. Frankly
kaskeses once I say both things mean my
the kaskeses lavushu Who says that the
kaskeses is this coat of armor? It's the
scales. And therefore the snapper is the
fish. Maybe it's the other way around.
Who lavush because it says by Goliath
that he was wearing coat of kaskeses
which is this chain mail armor. And
since we know the kaskeses certainly
means the scales. Again we lift kaskeses
below lift because it always has the
snapper if it has a kaskeses. Everything
which sounds like it's like a dry for
kibble scar kind of an answer. Although
the
Niddah actually says that the reason why
it's
because the Torah wants to stress that
it's kosher because it has the simanim.
I think it's the kaskeses. The kaskeses
is the iker one that makes it kosher.
And remember Gross pointed out it was
clear Niddah that taking sides in what
that
the mentioned about siman versus sibah
by the simanim kashrus that it seems to
be pretty clearly a sibah and not a
siman. That it's actually the kaskeses
that makes it kosher. And that's what
the Torah is actually stressing. This is
connected to
it says it's clearly a siman. But either
way the reason why we just have snapper
and kaskeses is Torah
Torah
says
that you can eat a fish that has the
snapper and kaskeses. If you don't have
a snapper
If it doesn't have a snapper cascasas,
I'm not allowed to eat it.
If it doesn't have those you're not
allowed to eat it.
So why is the Torah seem to repeat it in
both the negative and the positive?
So therefore I know to have a
the Torah says you're allowed to eat
from everything that's in the water. So
what is it coming to tell me that you're
allowed to eat everything in the water?
She I might have thought
since this
is being that these water the fairish
and it's also matter them stuff without
listing them with both the positive and
the negative, I might have said because
you hit
the first
just like we have this header. It's only
those that kind of produce themselves in
as we're going to learn more about the
kinds of things that just spontaneously
create or created in those are not the
Torah's offering. Those you're allowed
to eat or drink in the case of that may
be drinking the water. After she hit the
those that matter stuff without speaking
out what what you're allowed to
specifically eat are only the ones that
are in the water. I mean I love it by
which are not in
this you
can just bend down and drink in these by
which
we don't have to stop
him from drinking even though he might
be consuming the that have grown inside
these bodies of water telling us that
even some kind of creature in the water
that has no fins and scales these kinds
of that germinate in the
kind of creature in the water that has
no fins and scales these kinds of
germinate in the
will be
now let's go to the
of that kind of
where do we know that
that are found in are matter because
they
anything has fins and scales which are
in the water which are in the bodies of
water you're allowed to eat
that's the ones that are in these bodies
of water that the Torah is saying
that if these kinds of creatures have
fins and scales you can eat them but if
they don't you're not allowed to eat
them it's
but we take out from this that those are
in
all
You're always allowed to eat them. We'll
practice tomorrow. Maybe it's the other
way around.
Maybe you're never allowed to eat them
in Kaylin. Why should you take it to the
extreme?
Maybe it's extreme.
That's what the Torah is saying.
But
they came to be only in Kaylin.
You're always allowed to eat them. Maybe
I could interpret the verse differently.
But I'm going to interpret it
differently. But I'm going to interpret
it differently. Which would teach us
that
in the
bodies of water, that's when you have
the requirement of not having scales.
But if they're only in these ponds and
little canals, then you don't have this
requirement of not having scales. So
what do we learn? So therefore we learn
that even if it does not have scales,
those in these bodies of water and
little canals are going to be allowed.
And certainly the ones that are going to
be allowed. So why does the verse need
to tell me that you're allowed to eat
the ones from the bodies of water and
little canals? And since it has two
different clauses, we treat this as a
clause and a clause. And the verse is
going to go further into this. I know
I'm stopping in the middle, but we're
going to pause and we'll pick this up.
Maybe we'll roll it back a little bit
for tomorrow.
And I think tomorrow, yeah, we're going
to finish the chapter tomorrow.