Chullin Daf 58

All right, today's daf shabbos is daf. We're going to pick it up eight lines from the bottom of nun zayin amud beis. Amar Rav Huna siman l'treifah shnaim asar chodesh. We mentioned this yesterday, but now we're going to talk about it more extensively. That if you have a treifah, and when I say treifah, I don't mean a vadai treifah, I mean a safek treifah. Rashi points this out. If you have an animal that you are not sure if it's a treifah, maybe it fell off a building, and that sort of thing. So the halacha is if it can survive shnaim asar chodesh, it won't be a treifah, because a treifah can't last 12 months. That's Rav Huna's din. Meisvei is a true, I'll show you a braisa when it talks about these shirim does not list 12 months, because siman l'treifah k'shnei l'eidus. One idea to verify whether an animal is a treifah is if it can be mo'eled. And if it's ein ayeles, it could be a treifah. Rabi Shimon ben Gamliel omer, no, yesh b'achas d'hilches. If it gets better and healthier, then it's not a treifah. Be adu sheksheira. However, misnavna d'hilches, if it progressively gets worse, then be adu shetreifah. Rabi Imer siman l'treifah shloshim yom, it's a 30-day trial to see if it can live, because a treifah won't live more than 30 days. Amru lei, v'halu hayu b'skaymis shnaim shloshim yom. There are many known treifos that seem to live for two three years. But anyway, what do you hear from this braisa? Of all these different options, none of them are Rav Huna's halacha of 12 months. To which the Gemara says, you know what? The whole thing is really a machlokes tanai am tanai hi. De tanya, because the braisa says, u'bigulgoles, by a skull, which the issue is always going to be whether or not there's any tumas oil. She eish b'nekev echad o'chav, it's kind of long thin hole. If you have the kavim harbei, or many small holes, mitztarfim, it can actually be mitztaref to the size of the shiur of l'mole mikdeach, of that drill-sized hole. And that will make it into something that couldn't sustain life if that person's head was still connected to a living body. Amar Rabi Yeshaya ben Mishulam, maiseh b'Envol. There was a story in that location. Dechash niftach gulgolta, a living guy had a seriously real lachin kapi, had a mamash a hole in his head. V'asu lei chiduk shel k'ruya v'chaya, and they put on for him a makeshift kind of bandage from a dried shell of a melon or a gourd, and he lived. So you see, a person can live even with that size hole in their head, and they won't be a treifah. Amar lei Rabi Shimon ben Elazar, Rabi Shimon, raya? You got a raya from that? You mayse chamah haya. It was the summertime. But b'keivan she'avar alav y'mei ha'tzinah, miyad meis. Once we got to the cold season, he dropped dead immediately. So in the winter said that a treif can't survive more than 12 months because according to that sheet all of the seasons of the year will impact the person somehow and they won't survive if they are a treif. The treif you let this miss buckets. The bottom line is a treif can be mild and can get healthier and still have the of being a treif. What about eggs that came out of a treif moving over to Sheila comma is a serious a mayor that that first batch of eggs that comes out of the treif mother bird is going to be awesome but from future groups of eggs that come out of this hen which now has also the who's not a treif so at that point you'll have the combination of the any sucked a mayor will make it better. But the shoving both agree and we're going to be referencing a it's going to be coming up soon but the shoving but treif if you have an egg of a treif that's going to be awesome because it grew within which is that the eggs that come out of this treif bird outside of that first group of eggs would be outside of not true it was still you know why those eggs are going to be awesome it's because there is no there is no because it's a case of you may remember from the that the hen is able to somehow create a process by rubbing its body on the earth and therefore not having fertilized eggs and since it's cool cool awesome it's only coming out of her which is a treif it would be completely awesome. Why should we come up with the the easier why can't I remember just say that the price when it's talking about that first group of eggs which everybody's going to be awesome. Everything is okay good luck it's the wrong word you wouldn't say it grew there it's going to be completed there. So now let's go back and understand the to which we had quoted that we then said the shoving but what is this about the issue that Tanya flood treif a general case of an animal that gives birth but the mother animal was a treif so really is according to you cannot bring such an animal that came from a treifa on the mizbeach. You can bring it. Now but my what are they arguing about? That's a treifa then it conceived and now became pregnant. And the between is that so that's what it's all about with the header because of the other is a much more of a simple way to go here. There's no reason to be talking about at all. The whole issue here of whether or not it's going to be a treifa should be not just to which the you know why we talked about to say even super cool that is doing that the offspring of this treifa can still be brought on the mizbeach. Well it works both ways in the same way you're pointing out the why don't we point out the of that's going to make a treif and a dinner treifa even if it's not that feel let me answer to which the says it's famous line all the way it's better when you have the option to point out the Rashi and famously says because anybody can be you can be a and say this thing is but to know the of others therefore there's that famous over there in discusses whether or not it has to do with the and therefore I'll make an between the which is and the which is and that's what is only by but by the is but the simple understanding is is according to the Rashi over there better to always pick header than the says that they're but treifa that's what we're talking about where there's no but the so that was all about but now the himself holds like by who said that the is that a treifa is and therefore because of treifa must he learned the way we just and therefore if it's a treifa it can be mylid now we have to come up with another reason of the hetern and that will be because of zev is a garden. But Ravina let's overlook Rav Yaakov. Ravina holds a treif is not mylid and therefore there is no time where a subsequent eggs that come from this treif a chicken may ever make kosher eggs. Who cares because of zev is a garden. There is no such thing as a treif being mylid. Umasi amaymar Therefore Ravina had to learn amaymar's halacha in the following way. Honey bay the safek treif and the shichla kama mashina lu. After that first bunch of eggs comes out now we got to wait. We got to see what happens with the mother hen. sharyan if she again becomes mu'uberes with more eggs well then clearly she was never a treif because a treif can't be mylid. Ve'lo yasiran but if she doesn't produce any more eggs then that first group is going to be asur because now this is safek treif. Ays fever of ashi amaymar umaydim beytzas treif asur. Everyone is maskim that the egg that came from a treif is asur. Godol be'isur. So clearly a treif is mylid is godol be'isur. No amur lay says vector of ashi. Hashem be'shichla kama. It's talking about that first bunch where the eggs were already formed before it became a treif. Well in kayn godol godol let me boil it the same day. It shouldn't say the expression of godol it should be gomur it finished that way. So let's change the gear so toni gomur we'll change it to the price of to say that it was actually completed that way. Frek the gomur toni what are we going to do about the price that says blood treif. That offspring of a treif amur lay amur lay back but yakraf. But my flig what are we going to say there gets kish ibra nitrafa and what's their amur lay ubri but amur lay amur lay we're not talking about zev is a garden this is all about how we view the uber is it you or not and that's going to be their this is going to be the new way to learn according to this version of amaymar what the amur lay amur lay was. Frek the yochi flig guvoya. flig guvoya same question has nothing to do with kutchum. Teras is amur lay such a kula so we want to show that amur lay frek flig guvoya amur lay amur lay we say once again the is amur lay vadai beytzas treif asur and when the price says that everyone is maskim that the beytzas treif is asur that's talking about the shichla kama the first group of eggs that comes out. So, my tam what's the p'shat in that? According to Rebbe Yeshua who's matir the treif animal and it doesn't have a din of a treif and doesn't hold that the uber is a yerach imi, so why are these eggs assur? My tam cuz it's more than uber yerach imi, it's gufei hi. There's a chelek between the connection between an uber and its mother all you day an umbilical cord than eggs it's mamish part of the chicken itself. It's cuz they're gufei it's more than yerach imi. The Rishonim even ask, how do we understand the halacha that in the Shas de Baya when you cut open a chicken and find finished eggs in there, those eggs are not flayshic. And the question is if it's gufei hi l'chumra it's chicken meat at that point and l'chumra it should be flayshic. I forgot the teretz and therefore we go by there. The hilchasa and the bottom line is bazachar koshnin maser chodesh when it comes to a male animal that might be a treif if it lives for 12 months it's no longer a treif cuz a treif cannot survive 12 months. But ben nekeiva koshnin let us we actually look at its ability to be meyled that will dictate whether or not it is a treif. Amar Rav Huna, kol beryo she'ain ba'atzam if there's a thing that doesn't have any bones like an insect or a worm cuz it doesn't have bones ain meskayem shnei meser chodesh. It's not going to last 12 months. And the kasha they ask is from the mabul and the teiva how did they survive being on the boat for a year? Amar Rav Papa, shma minan mi Rav Huna from the fact that Rav Huna says that this worm etc. can't survive cuz it has no bones for more than 12 months. Chada amar Shmuel, kishus she'aslya b'ei beha asura. If you have a kishus a cucumber that becomes wormy while still attached to the ground it's going to be assur because the halacha is that worms that are in the ground are assur but if they go into the peiros and they never came out they won't have that same assur. But based on what Rav Huna told us turning over to mid Baya chani tamrei dekada the dates that are in a container that are wormy l'basar tresei yarchi shata sharyin. They should be mutar to eat after 12 months because after 12 months any worms that were found in the fruit at that time must have been formed within the dates themselves and therefore never came out and therefore they should be mutar. Amar Rav, less bako beryaima there's no such thing as a day old nat cuz it can't last more than a day. Less didva bashata and there's no such thing as a year old fly. That housefly is not going to live more than a year. Amar Lei Rav Papa l'Abaye, v'hu amrei inshi there was an expression people would say that in Qatar for seven years female kept her partner away from her and she wasn't willing to meet with him because she would say to her spouse and you saw that person from who was swimming and put himself in a towel and he see and you went on him and you suck blood out of that guy and you didn't even tell me you didn't share. So she's ticked off at her husband will call him that I suppose to her son that it was not that was terrible. And so anyway this story is clearly a martial arts saver brings an application of what this martial might actually mean but what do we see that these kinds of insects can last for a seven years that was her whole thing that she stayed away from her seven years. So I buy this back to her papa according to what you're saying that you want to take this thing so literally so how do I mention I'll give you something else that people say that you obviously can't take literally because she didn't money Paris Hilton the corner to say that this net carry 60 iron in its corner to say which is the proboscis the thing that it stings with now is there so much weight obviously that's an expression you go figure my hobby how heavy is this bug all together all the money did who the money that we're talking about is its kind of measurement a net sized money so how can I mean the money did who tonight awesome learn to the mission of the hammer balance of the lion if an animal has five legs or only has three legs it's going to be considered a mum now the deal we're making here is that it's only a mum and therefore you can't bring it as a carbon from the back but it doesn't make it into a treyfa so I'm going to put what it has to do with that four leg that is the thing that's considered a mum I will but if it's those back hind legs and treyfa and therefore you can't eat at all my timer because it can not be dummy anything extra is like something that's removed and therefore we know that it's missing that back leg it is a treyfa there was this animal called the skaser the heavily tarte sanya deve it had two of these body parts called the sanya deve so rabina the tarfa with the rabuna he made into a treyfa based on the rabuna just told us call yes sir it's going to be dummy if If an extra thing that had it been missing altogether, it would made into a treif. writing them But if these two aspects of the animal, meaning the extra one, would connect in a way that they could communicate with each other and the insides of one would pour into the other one, then we look at it as one thing and the animal is going to be kosher. More animal biology. The animal had some kind of tube within its body of of boser that have enough gummy be cose it went from one part of the stomach to another but like it shouldn't have been there. So so ravashi limit treif it's an extra thing that if it was taken away might have made it into a treif. These kinds of animals from these locations are like this. So, you know, it's not really a treif at all and leave it alone. There was this animal with this kind of a tube in it that have a mabrah be be cose that was going from one part of the inside to another part of the inside. Sorry, I'm not doing a good time translating but these words don't mean much to me. So he wanted to make it kosher based on the previous thing we just said because when you have this extra tube it's kosher because that's the derech of the animal. Don't do that. You think you just make it all into one big child over here? You have no right to compare one animal to the other. Where it was said it was said but nothing so nothing who was the greatest from he was made in front of two intestines that came out of the animal together. She he treif can make them by but the corresponding matzah in a bird would still make it kosher. That creates in my mind if they come out two different places but if they come out of the same place then the colon and when they end when they join together it's the width of an then the animal will be kosher. It's only going to be kosher if these two intestines unite into a single tube together. They never really reconnect properly it'll still become kosher. I get that because I know now I have a sheer that has to be within the width in order to be considered like it's together. So in my what are you using that sheer for? Everything is at the very end of the intestinal tract is where it comes together. That's where it has to unite into a single tube. If the feathers are missing that's not a treif but if it's those small little feathers we call the down feathers that is an indication of a treif and therefore it will be and they they all said the same thing. So what are we talking about? If you take away this it will make it into a treif because we look at it like it's skin. It will be because we learned in the because that though that that will combine with the skin to complete the minimum sheer and and the way learns is we're talking about the sheer to be a pigul that you have to be against the of so you can now be along with the other two are not kind of the same and therefore they're not totally one on the other because where we look at the as if it's the skin for Indian treif for treif for the reason why we make a treif out of this is because there's nothing to protect the body of the bird. That's why it's going to be a treif because it's definitely going to die. But what's considered the that the is being misbrought who are the ones who argue with who holds the not like the like maybe by that Indian regarding making the bird treif but Indian treif but it could be that according to maybe he disagrees with this maybe he just doesn't hold that the is not really protecting the bird and that's why it won't make it into a treif. So they're really not totally one on the other and therefore you can't put them together. Let's say an animal has this problem called which it's some sort of blood sickness. The says it creates a breathing problem for the animal. They ma'usheness smoke, the ma'utneness or if it had a cold or if it become frozen somehow or she had a dudfni or it ate this kind of dudfni herb which is definitely harmful to the animals or she turned to go on or he ate the chicken dung or she may have a worm or drank or drank may have a worm maybe the snake venom is in it. All these things are going to be and you're allowed to eat that meat of that animal. However, if it ate something that would be poisonous to a human being or she or let's say the animal got a snake bite or she had a treif it's not going to be a treif but it's a mission of the fascist because you can't eat that meat because of the almost all the meat that killed this treif. If you feed an animal is killed this which just gives us a lot of work whatever that means it's going to make the animal into a treif. Because the the whole of my honor because the whatever it is makes holes in the digestive tract of the animal. Most of the animal that has this an animal that has this blood poisoning or whatever it is or inhaled smoke or she had a dudfni or she had a treif or she had a treif or she had a treif or if you fed it this which we'll see soon what it means or killed this or peppers or maybe if it ate poison or if she had a treif or if she had a treif or if she had a treif because it's dangerous. Now if she had a treif because it's dangerous. Now if she had a treif because now if she had a treif because the saying that does not make the animal treif or she had a treif and she had a treif because the saying that you're allowed to eat the animal out of the treif but the mission says it's going to be also because of the danger to human life. She answers killed this treif because she's not going to be a stealer because by the we're talking about the leaves of the plant which don't really make any holes in the digestive tract of the animal that eats it. But according to we're talking about the grain of which is very sharp and could actually make holes into the digestive tract. And some of the because of the poison that would poison to the animal but not to humans. But with the poison our mission is talking about poisons to humans as well. If we're talking about the poison if If talking about the poison in the braysa is animal poison, then that is the same thing as rudifni. It's poisonous stuff for animals. Now for the Gemara, trey gavnei sama maves, there are two different kinds of poison but in a chanamie. And this is where we're going to stop and pick it up with Sunday's daf when we talk about tiyuvta.