Chullin Daf 53

All right, folks. Today is daf noon gimmel, Monday's daf. We're talking about a drusa, an animal that's clawed, and we were smack in the middle of a chekhel of a taraya trying to work through this brysa that the khasul of the nemiya does not make a trayfa simply by its drusa unless it actually cuts a hole all the way into the nemiya of the animal. So right now we're picking up on the second wide line where it seems like the brysa is connected with khizda who does seem to say that there is going to be a problem of drusa, and therefore the gemara says me kol malcolm khizda kasha, to which the gemara answers who da amarkiyana that ref khizda who says there is a problem of drusa because ref khizda is going like a different tana not like this brysa. The tanya baribi eimer that baribi says, I believe it's the nitei be huda that discusses who baribi is, that loy amru ein a drusa el a makom shein matzilin. There's no halakha of drusa unless the khasul over here is doing its drusa kite because of someone trying to be matzil the other animal. So there's like an enraged attitude of this khasul. Aval bamakom she yesh matzil yesh drusa. When there really is a hatzala from some exterior force trying to save the gadi or save the ayif, well then the khasul is going to work harder and actually have its poison go through its drusa. But the gemara is that really true? Aval bamakom shein matzil ein drusa? It's always telling hatzala? I mean we've got that story of a haha he turned the galus. The havei be of kana there was one time a turned the galus in the house of riv kana deroyd khasul basra. A cat was chasing it. Aval olay idreina the it hid dosha ba ape. So the turned the galus ran into a room and it closed the door in front of the cat. And that And it doesn't necessarily mean the turned the galus did the closing of the door herself, but the fact is the door slammed shut. Umashil la dosha ba sikhufay. And in this Tom and Jerry moment when the cat slams up against the door, it smacks the door with its sikhufay, its paw. Perhaps it was trying to lunge after the turned the galus. Ashka khalay and we saw on the door khamisha kutrei doma, five little spots of red, which imply this is where the cat left its poison from its hand. Now there was no hatzala here, the turned the galus was just on its own. And for the gemara no hatzala satzma, nami katzal acherem dumi. Doesn't mean that there has to be an outside person or whatever it is trying to save the turned the galus. The hatzala can come from the turned the galus alone. And the turned the galus is trying to save itself. So the khasul will try harder. V'ra bonan who actually are khalik with baribi and hold that the khasul is not going to have a drusa even when there's a counter hatsala. Why is there five little spots of poison left on the door? To which the Gamara suggests Zihara is lay about there's poison but the little is there a and therefore wouldn't be fatal for these animals. There's a little stickle of poison but not enough. You could have a very similar version of the same story how many were really he did Tanya Ruby Imer lay Amaru yes drusal the markum shish matilin of a markum shish matilin ain't drusa. I markum shish matilin ain't drusa is that really true? I have a Tanya girls have been in Ghana. There was the Tanya girls was running in the house of Ghana the road hustle by sorry there was being chased by the cat. For oil the druna the drusha by pay and the door got slammed in his face. And it swiped it's paw on the door which I can make her to die which the Gamara again answered to the sat man to the sat man to the man to the man. And therefore the hustle was trying very hard and that's why the poison was found cuz there was this hatsala aspect. By the way of Ghana may rev turning moving over to Madalif yes drusal the hustle ain't drusal the hustle. Which has kind of been our shila. To which rev answers I'm going to lay off the hoodie yes drusa. Even a holder a weasel will also have the halacha of a drusa. So for sure a hustle which is even bigger than a weasel. And now the Gamara asks it more specifically yes drusal the holder ain't drusal the holder. And the answer was I'm going to lay off the hustle ain't drusa. Which is obviously a steer to the last and we're going to need to reconcile. Third shila was the hustle or the holder yes drusa ain't drusa. This was another version of how the question was asked. And the answer was I'm going to lay off the hustle yes drusa or the holder ain't drusa. It depends. Now will I caution these different are not going to drive with each other but they're all time at different cases. The Amaru lay off the holder yes drusa. That's by Iface that a holder can be dire race and if and kill it. The Amaru lay off the hustle ain't drusa. That's in my rather be that cat won't be able to create a drusa that's talking about large animals like a big sheep that you need to have a bigger in order to do the drusa there. And how do Amaru lay off the hustle yes drusa or the holder ain't drusa. That depends on which kind of animal that's big a demon to lion that a hustle can create the drusa kite but not a holder. By rev Ashi shar Iface to may him let's say other not kosher birds. Yes ain't drusa ain't drusa. These other kinds of predatory birds are they going to be able to create drusas or not? Amaru lay off the holder or rev Ashi key of in a bear of Ghana Amaru shar Iface to may him yes drusa. we were learning about he said that the other not kosher birds can create a drusa. It is very specific meaning not other treif birds which the nates has a uniqueness and even if it's the same size as the victim bird it will still become a drusa. The enoch but other kinds of treif birds that are predatory it will only make a treif if the victim bird is smaller than they are. Drusas is only if it's bigger than it but all other kinds of predatory birds even if they're the same size. Two different things. A fox does not make the status of a drusa. Where this fox was a this little female goat in the so don't talk to me about that don't Of course foxes do. It wasn't a fox it was actually a cat which apparently is actually tougher than a fox. There is drusa for a mice a little female wasn't a at all it was a dog and a dog is not to drusa we have a that there is no drusa the killer. Are not poisonous. When we talk about the drusa of these animals it's talking about the front legs not the back legs of the animal. It's only if it's coming from the claws not with their teeth and it has to happen on purpose with intent of the animal. If it just fell on it wouldn't be considered making a drusa and also only if that predatory animal is still alive and I am really said if it's me does it will even be considered a drisa. Lahar miza me buys, certainly if it's dead, it's certainly shlemas and therefore there wouldn't be any drisa. So, why does the buy even need to say it? We're talking about specifically where the animal did the drisa and then they chopped off its hand before they were able to take it away from the victim animal. Because my time show the you might have thought that the predatory animal sticks its poison when it sticks its claw into its victim. And therefore it's already a treifa. Komashmalonzok de baya bahadi de sholif shodi ziare. As it retracts its paw, when it takes away its hand and claws, that's when the poison goes in. Unless you think this is only negates the hilchos treifus, this idea of bahadi de sholif shodi ziare, that the poison only goes in when it's being retracted, I heard two different versions of applying this in a mussar context. Rebbe Razner said that when kedusha is leaving, like by shalah shudis of shabbos, that's when it's this heiliga moment and that's maybe why chassidim take their shalah shudis so seriously. And Rebbe Gross mentioned from a maimer from Rebbe Hutner about a yamim tovim, that's the makor for a neilas hag at the end of a yom tov, as it's being retracted, that's its strongest makom. Next time you're at a neilas hag or a shalah shudis, you can sound cool by varfing chulin daf nun gimel amud aleph. You are welcome. Omar Rabba bar Rav Huna Omar Rav, ari, a lion, shenichnas lebein hashvarim, so here is the lion along with all these oxen. Vinimtsa tziporen begabei shel echad mehem, and we find this claw from a lion's hand in one of the oxen. So, the halacha is ein chosheshin shema ari darsa, we don't have to now try to come up with the history over here that maybe now one of these shvarim is a drisa. Because my time because Rebbe Aryeh is darsen umizin ein darsen. While the truth is Rebbe Aryeh is most lions will be dores. Bechol hadores ein tziporen einishmetes. The very fact that the claw is stuck in the animal and seemingly fell off the lion kind of takes him out of the Rebbe. Zois From the very fact you see a claw stuck in the ox, that's a rayasa in going b'seder Rebbe of in the ox, that's a raya in going both of the rave of the lions. It must be that this ox must have got this claw by backing into a wall and the claw was stuck in a wall somewhere from this detached claw. From rave of the oxes rub against the walls and only a meat do not. And there's a meat of them that would get these claws coming off wall sticking into its backs. So this now is a raya the other way that it's so unlikely that it got this claw from a wall that must be it came from a lion. And therefore we should be being a drusa. And therefore either way so you should go and say that this shar was not drusa and therefore it's going to be kosher. Now this is a case of drusa because you can always go that's that by a 50/50 of whether or not this was a drusa so you can go over ravs of going and saying it's kosher only if it was the claw of the lion was found in the back of the shar. I will not that location where there's a wound in the back of this shar then of course you have to be for drusa. And the whole only where we find this this claw and it was still moist meaning it had blood in it because the thinking is a moist wouldn't have become detached from a healthy lion. If the if it was a dry crunchy one then maybe it actually fell off the lion and was stuck in a wall and then you can have that cooler. And by a moist one ravs going to have a cooler only if it was one of them. If you find two or three of these that are embedded in the back of this shar of either going to be for drusa because two or three is going to be more to explain all you do rather than the wall. It's also that these two or three are in a row that would seemingly support the idea that it came and not random walls. It mark continuing this idea of ravs and ravs we We don't have to be chashish. If you go by the hazakah it will be kosher. Shmuel chashish safek drusa. Now the kulei alma safek ol safek la ol. If I'm safek b'chelal whether or not the predatory animal went in eima lo ol I can say it didn't go in. Because at that point you have a safek sfeka whether it went in and whether it became a drusa. But safek kalba safek shunra if I know it was certainly attacked but I just don't know what kind of animal did the attacking eima kalba and I can say maybe it was a dog that would not make it into a drusa and therefore that's when I can say there's the shaila of kashrus. Ol shosik v'eisev beinaihu. Let's say a lion goes in and just hangs out with all the shvarim and we see it that way. So can I just assume there's nothing to be worried about? To which the Gemara says eima shavi. Maybe this is a real kumbaya moment and these animals have no problems with each other and therefore you don't have to be chashish for drusa. And and also katurasha d'chadminaihu nachmi riskei. Amazing thing. Let's say the lion tore the head off one of these animals. Then you'd think well then I definitely have to be worried about the drusa kite for the other animals. But it's not true because it was nachmi riskei. Now already the animal has dealt with its own anger issues by tearing off the head and now it's cool and now it's just hanging out with the other oxen. Now eihu kama avei the inhu kama kakaran. Let's say the lion is roaring and the shvarim are mooing or making whatever noises shvarim make. Ba'usei kama avasei. They're both afraid turning over to me beiza hadadi of each other and therefore the fear one to the other is enough to prevent any drusa from taking place. But keep plugei where is there going to be a machlokes Rav and Shmuel about whether you're chashish la'drusa? D'ihu ka'shosik v'einu kama kakaran. It's when the lion is quiet but the shvarim are making their noises they're making their mooing. Perhaps we should say the shvarim are doing their t'kiah and tru'ah. Womp womp. Mar savar meisa ka'vei b'hu. The reason why Shmuel will say that we have to chashish for the drusa is because we have to assume that the oxen are making noises because the lion is attacking them. Mar savar but Rav will be meikel because machmas b'usei hu d'kama avdan. The shvarim are making their noise because they are just crying out we better get on the move on because of these lions that are here but not because they're actually being attacked. Amar Ameimar hilchasa chashishin la'safek drusa. We pasken like Shmuel. Amar lei Rav Ashi la'Ameimar hai d'Rav Mai. What about Rav's heter? Why are we not paskening like Rav? Amar lei lo sh'mili hu. I didn't hear about this I don't hold of it Rob because of the following my said that who which is a basket to these clawed up birds and and what happened rather than making a himself Rob sent the to to make a on these little birds so what did do he strangled the birds and then threw them into the river very dramatic if you're telling me that Rob was not being and he held that so he should have been at these birds why do you send him to vice he was already to her if Rob was he should just pass and that it was just not because of the the reason why he didn't make the is because he had to give the to because it was to it was his town and therefore it wouldn't have been covered for him to make a in town okay fine but why is these birds just throw them out put them in the river because the birds they could have flown away all right still hold on to them for 12 months and see if they would survive you don't have to actually kill the birds no you have a reason because I'll see you later within those 12 months people might make a interesting over here because I need to have a since there are so many of these birds he couldn't be so careful and therefore somebody might eat one of them the nice discuss whether or not require multiples of things there's one piece of meat in my house I should be sure that I might actually eat that one piece of meat or maybe only if I have a bunch of those kind of pieces of meat and I should be worried for a while still why do you have to kill the birds at all just sell them to now because they'll turn around and sell back to a and they could be a that way all right but can you finish so you can strangle them but don't have to throw them in the river just throw them in the trash and for the while you should have based on your you should have asked you could have just throw them to the dogs Ella for me so or people to know about it. And then you're making a whole rubbish at Ashlag event over here by going down to the river. People will know about it. They'll be my first in the Halacha and that's the best way to deal with the situation. Who bar Avaza the have a bear of Ashi there was this duck by Rav Ashi. All the bear of a Kanya it went into the reeds. Not when it came out also came a mass maze koi a dama. It had blood [clears throat] on its neck. And we just don't know if that happened because of the reeds or because some cat was mauling it. Omar of Ashi lay on red didn't we already say suffix calba suffix shundra a more calba. We could be so much cooler. So he must have a kind of a suffix shundra a more kind of a we don't know if these wounds happen because of the reeds or maybe it happened because of a shundra and therefore there might be the poison and the suffix drusa. Ambry Benay Rav Hia drusa shomru this drusa that we've been talking about can I get in the may I am. That's where you got to check for the signs of its poison in the kishkes. Omar of Yasef had been a Rav Hia craper sha shmul. We already knew this. Don't know if shmul Rav Hia been a drusa shomru can I get in the may I am. Boy I have had another shilo though. Yesh drusa with simonem by Andres Simonem. You remember on shabbos is that we had a shilo if there was a nafula by the Simonem and we said there wasn't. But now the shilo is is there going to be a drusa by the Simonem. In other words that's the location of the clawing. Omar Rav Zera had the boy of this boy had a shilo about craper sha Rav Hanan bar Rova. The Omar Rav Hanan bar Rova Omar Rav drusa shomru can I get in the base a hollow the feel the Simonem even around the Simonem the corner of the vasha. Boy of Simonem should not be a comma. Let's say the corner of the vasha became detached from the jaw. How much do they have to be attached to consider a trafa. And the reason why we're bringing the shilo of which is seemingly not the gain now but because it's a similar format of question answer. Omar Rav Zera had the boy of craper sha Rav bar Rav Hanan. The Omar Rav bar Rav Hanan Omar Shmul Simonem should not be a comma. Once most of it becomes detached it's considered a trafa. Boy Rav Yami a mass masa. Let's say there's a rot in the flesh of the animal where typically that area if there was a drusa that would make the animal to a trafa what's going to be the Halacha here. So Omar Rav Zera had the boy of Rav Yami craper sha Rav Yehuda. The Omar Rav Yehuda Omar Rav the drusa of Adam Buster can I get the name AI? >> By the case of a dresser, the animal's not going to be treif unless that Buster around where that wound is has to be red. This mass mass of Buster right now is like you doing it. If that Buster is rotted, it's decayed, then we look at it as if it's not even there. And therefore it only depends on whether or not if it's missing that ever would it make the animal into a treif? >> Now, how do you do me this mass mass? >> I'm going to have a good review of your show call shot right here guard day. >> If a doctor could scrape it away only to leave the healthy flesh. >> In other words, if a doctor was trying to treat this, he would scrape it all away. >> I'm going to ask you to give me a better of kind of. >> I assume I'm going to hear you there. There was one time a lung was brought to a Kahana. >> He have a metal of a law you have a shopper when they would lay it down, it would be intact. >> But when you have a model of a law but when they would lift it up. >> Have a total of an apple of tickle tickle. >> It would come apart into pieces. >> It would rip the llama to have a good review of your show. >> And therefore based on this dinner of a good review of your show about right now is like you doing it and I by this decayed flesh, that's why he made this lung and therefore the subsequent animal into a treif. >> And we are going to pause here and pick it up with a good review of your show for tomorrow's stuff.