Chullin Daf 45

All right, daf mem hey. This is Sunday's daf and we are picking it up 14 lines from the bottom of mem dalet amud bet. We got a little bit of later I got it to here. Omar Rav Chisda, "Aizu talmid chacham?" Who is a talmid chacham? Now, this Gemara is not just simply asking who's a talmid chacham cuz we want to give the guy some kavod. It has a halachic definition because a talmid chacham is somebody who does not have to give a siman when he claims an aveida. He can say, "Hey, I recognize that thing is mine." And we trust him, but he has to have the status of a talmid chacham. So, who is a talmid chacham? Zeh zeh a raya treifa l'atzmo. This is someone who checks out his own treifa and says it's assur even though he's got some literal skin in the game. You'd think you might want to be machshir it and even if there might be a makom to be machshir it, still he's going to assur it. That's the raya treifa l'atzmo. If you have Rav Chisda, "Aizu sinei matanos Yechia?" Who's an example of the sinei matanos Yechia? Zeh a raya treifa l'atzmo. That's a person who doesn't try to be matir his own animal, but he says it's going to be assur. Darsh "Kol mi shekarov v'she'einah someone who learns both Torah shebichtav and Torah sheba'al peh b'raya treifa l'atzmo v'shimush talmidei chachamim." As Rashi says, he learns Gemara a love akasa v'eimar yagi'a kapayim ki seichel ashrecha ba'olam hazeh v'tov lach. Now, as we learned amar zecher v'nechot shnei olamot olam hazeh v'olam haba. He gets both worlds, this world and the next world cuz we can learn ashrecha ba'olam hazeh v'tov lach is l'olam haba. Rabbi Elazar ki havai meshadrei lei mibei nasi'a midi d'lo shakal. When they would send Rabbi Elazar something a gift from the beis nasi, he wouldn't accept it. Ki havai mezamnei lei lo ozil. And when they would invite him to come to a seudah, he wouldn't accept. Amar he would say, "Lei kav bei mar d'achi?" You don't want me to live? Tichsev "Asei matanos Yechia." So, so if I want to live, I'm not going to be taking your gifts or coming to your meals. Rabbi Zeira ki havai meshadrei lei shakal. When they would send Rabbi Zeira gifts, he wouldn't accept them, but ki havai mezamnei lei ozil. When they would invite him, he would go. He didn't consider that to be a sinei matanos Yechia if he accepted the invitation to go there cuz amar he would say, moving over to mem alef, "Iska kurei hu d'misyakrei bei." They're getting kavod by having me as a guest which is like the G'maran Kedushin where the woman accepts a gift from the Adam Ha'Shav. She is G'maro Makneh Nafshei. The same idea here. Rabbi Zeira is saying, "Look, you know, I'm not going to take your gifts, but if I'm going to go to your Seudah, I'm not really taking anything. You're getting, not me." And now, for the rest of today's daf, we get into some serious anatomy. Amar Rabbi Yehudah Marav, Nikvah K'nafah Mitstarfim L'Ruba. Let's say the Kannah, the windpipe, the trachea, has a lot of little holes. They can combine together to create that Shiur of Rov to make it into a Treifah. Now, Masef Rabbi Yirmiyah, the Braisa says, Uvei Gulgolet, a skull, She'Yesh Bah Nekev Echad Orech She'Yesh Bah Echad Orech Hole in it, Af Ilu Yesh Bah Nekavim Harbeh, even if there's lots of small holes, Mitstarfim L'Ilu Makdiach. They can combine these little holes to make the size of a hole that was made by a drill. Now, this is Negiah to whether there's going to be Tum'as Meis if the skull has a din of a skull. But, Amar, what do you see from this Braisa in Ailais? Ekivan Dishureh M'Ilu Makdiach, since that Shiur that is the Shiur to take away the din skull kite from it, and that Shiur is the size of a hole that's made by so if there's lots of small ones, L'Ilu Makdiach Mitstarfim, small ones can be added together to get to that larger size of a hole. So, Achinami, in the same way, when you have lots of little holes in the Kannah, we can also say that Kivan Dishureh K'Issur, since the Shiur of what's considered a deficiency in the Kannah is a hole the size of this coin called an Issur, they'll be combined together to get to that Shiur of an Issur. But, that means that even if the Rov of the Kannah is not cut, all you need to do is get to the Issur, question mark. And it's And it's not going to be about Rov of the Kannah. So, Ishtamitei must have been forgotten temporarily by Rabbi Yirmiyah. Hold Amar Rabbi Chelbo Amar Rabbi Chama Bar Gurya Marav that Nekavim She'Yesh Bah Chisaron Mitstarfim L'Ilu K'Issur. Holes that have a Chisaron, meaning the holes that are not just a punctured hole, but they're actually missing the skin that was there, those are Mitstarfim L'Ilu K'Issur. She'Ein Bah Chisaron, let's say it's just a puncture wound, but it doesn't have any missing flesh, then Mitstarfim L'Ruba, then the Shiur is going to be Rov. So, when Rabbi Yehudah said before B'Sheim Rov that the holes in the Kannah combine together to get to Rov, he was just talking about the kinds of holes where the skin wasn't missing, but when we said it was isser it was talking where things were missing. So there's no isser. Amar Rabba bar bar Hana Amar bar Yeshua bin Levi nitla himena retzua mitztaref l'kisser. If there's a strip of skin missing down the length of the kunnah and it was removed, that gap that's left can be combined to the size of an isser to make it into a treifa. Even though that missing strip is narrower than an isser, but because the total length of it is going to be greater or equal to an isser that will be a problem. Rabbi Yitzchak bar Nachmani Amar bar Yeshua bin Levi nikva knafa malu. Let's say if the kunnah was punctured like a sieve, it's got these holes in it. What's the halacha? Amar bar Yeshua bin Levi hare amru derabonan said nikavim sheish point chaser mitztaref l'kisser. B'sheim point chaser mitztaref l'ruba. That's exactly what we already said. Frakht Amar bar Adda bar Ahava what's going to be the halacha by a bird which has obviously a much smaller kunnah, a much smaller trachea? What will be the halacha if you have lots of small holes? If they're missing the skin, how large does that area have to be to make the bird into a treifa? Amar bar Yeshua bar Nachmani l'didi mefarshalei min Rabbi Eliezer bar Eliezer said to me that mekaplei umni chai al pi akona. After cutting around that area that has all these little holes on three sides. So now the three cuts will make it into a flap. One folds the flap over the opening of the kunnah over the mouth of the tracheal tube. Seim chifas reiva kunnah treifa. So if that flap now covers the the reiva of the opening of that kunnah then the animal is a treifa. Veim lav, but if it doesn't cover that size then it'll be shero. Amar bar Adda v'seimanech nafya. And a way to remember this is cuz it's like a nafya like a sieve that little piece of flesh, that flap that's stretched over the mouth of the kunnah itself is going to resemble a sieve cuz it's got little holes that stretches over the mouth of the kaili. Cuz that's what a sieve actually looks like. It's this netting that would go over the mouth of a an opening and things get poured and strained through it. Va'eider nifta hakadalis. Let's say the kunnah is deficient, it's missing a piece and it's open like a door and now you got a flap that's swinging open and closed. So Amar bar Nachman is that going to be a treifa? K'dei sheyi kanis isser l'rachav bayis. The animal is going to be a treifa if the hole is so open that you could fit the issur into that hole, then that would be a problem of treifis. Nistako, what's the halacha if the kana was split down the length as opposed to the width we were talking until now? So, Amar Rava, as long as only one chulya, which sounds like a single ring of cartilage. Rashi says it might be three rings of cartilage, but if you have that chulya, it will be kasheira. Amar Rabbi Yochanan said, "Ma chulya u'ma chulya d'Amar Rav?" What is this chulya that Rav is talking about? Why do you need multiple? "Even if you have the smallest amount above this cut and the smallest amount below and above, it's going to be okay." So, Amar Rabbi Yochanan said the same halacha that Rabbi Yochanan had said, that all you need is a little bit of amount in front of Rabbi Yochanan in the name of Rabbi Yochanan to which Amar Rabbi Yochanan said, "Okay, I guess I'm saying the same thing as me." "Rabbi Yochanan knows how to learn and that's all good." Okay. Tana Rabbi Chiya bar Yosef Amar Rabbi Yochanan, "Kol hatzavar kulo kasher l'shchita." You can shecht along the whole neck. The ganzei giraffe is fine to cut the anywhere along the neck. Again, we don't eat giraffe meat probably because it's not good meat to eat. But this din is that the whole neck is kasher for shchita. "M'tabas hagidalah ad kanfei re'ah tachtonah." And the shiur of where on the neck you can cut it, and remember we're talking here about the kana not the veshet. Yesterday's daf on Shabbos, we learned about the top and bottom edges of the veshet. But now we're saying about the top and bottom edges of the kana. So, you have the top is the tabas gidalah and kanfei re'ah is the lobes of the lower lung where that kana actually goes into the lower part of the lung. That's how low down you can go. Amar Rava, "Tachtonah shehi elyonah." When the braisa says the lower lung, it means really the upper one because we're talking about where the animal is hung up by its hind legs. So, the lung actually is dangling down from the severed trachea. Because amar the area that's right for shita is whatever extends into the neck when the animal stretches out her neck and grazes. The pashuta as long as it's not forced. There's a person can't stretch out the neck further than it than the animal would do on its own. Okay, so we're saying that the shita can't stretch out the neck such that it's not a natural way the animal would do it itself. The animal itself did the stretching kite. The animal stretched the neck such that there's more of the trachea exposed than usual. To which the gamara says, you also sitting together and the following went between them. In other words, they were asking that on us if the forced some of the pipes out of the chest of the animal into the neck and then did the in that non-natural location, it's going to be a possible nikka and then yeah. And if this kind of was punctured below the point that makes the beginning of the khaza, the breastbone, where it would normally be fit for shita, it's going to look like as if it's a hole in the lung and therefore the animal will be a treifa. Now that we're mentioning this about the khaza, what is that part that you have to give to the kind from your carbon shlomen that's called a khaza, part of that breastbone. The khaza part of the animal that faces the ground, you know, when the animal is on all fours, so their front of its chest faces the ground. It goes downward towards the neck. Which we might have thought was upward, but that's the way we classify it. And upward to the part of the stomach that's called the karas. And it cuts off two ribs from two sides here and there. That's the khaza that we need to look at and that's the khaza that we give when we talk about the khaza of the shita etc. Okay, the mishna had said if there is a hole in the membrane of the brain, right, the literal cup, then the animal is a treifa. Rav da amri tarvayu karma ilah afel gado. that the upper membrane was punctured even though the lower membrane was not punctured. That's what the mission is talking about. The way the mission teaches and others explains because once the outside membrane is already has a hole in it, the inner one which is shvachara is not going to protect the brain for very long and therefore this animal's hours are numbered. It's definitely a treif. The Amora and some say the inkiv tata it actually has to puncture the lower membrane as well. Therefore the second loshon until both are punctured the animal won't be a treif. Amora Shmuel bar Nachmani the simanech that we have to also make a hole in the in the lower membrane is that the mintach that area that pouch where the brain is sitting Amora Yeshua ben Levi the betzim in nikar. This is the same idea that we find by the zachrus of the behema. There's a parallel in how that pouch holds the brain and holds the zachrus. Amora Shimon ben Pazi Amora Yeshua ben Levi bar Kapara mayach the brain needen kimayach. Whatever's inside the cranium is considered the brain. It also has a din called mayach. Hiskalim shech needen but from the point where the brain begins to go beyond the cranium that's not called brain anymore that it's called shechdra it's called the spinal cord. Now at what point does the brain extend beyond the cranium that we now want to call it spinal cord area? Amora bar Nachmani lidi limenay ben Levi turning over base pilin nachin al pi hakadera. There are two little small things that are calling them like beans that are at the beginning of the cranium. That's where the skull and the neck vertebrae connect. Some kind of glands some kind of small zachin we're calling them the pilin. So when the pilin is it's going to be considered the brain. That'll be considered the spinal cord. The pilin but these actual pilin themselves any day I don't know how to classify them. It must be like the inside and it should be like the inside and therefore be considered like a dent of the myach of the brain itself. Amora There's also something that would look like these beans in the beginning of the cranium of a bird as well. Fine. Then the mishna had said, "Nikav a layv l'bayis chalali." If the heart was punctured all the way into the inside of the cavity of the heart, then the animal is going to be a trayfa. Boy Rebbi Zeira, l'bayis chalo katan ay l'bayis chalo gadol? Which chamber of the heart are we talking about? The big one or the small one? A boy Rebbi Zeira, what are you asking? Didn't we learn in a mishna regarding the lungs that Rebbi Shimon would say "Ad shetinoqev l'bayis that the animal is not a trayfa until the hole goes all the way down into the bayis until the bronchi." Rebbi Rebbi Rebbi until it goes into the big one. So just like Rebbi Shimon said, the bayis is talking about the biggest area. So when the mishna is talking about the of the layv of the heart, it should also be talking about the big cavity of the heart. How can you compare lungs to hearts? How can you compare? It's talking about the bayis. And that's where all these different bronchial air things converge together to make the primary area. But here when we're talking about the cavity of the heart, we're using a different kind of expression. It's a of this bayis. So you don't have any indication from a lungs description what we're talking about when we're talking about the heart. Let's say regarding the pipe of the heart, which we'll see soon what that means. Rather it's going to be a trayfa even with the smallest hole. The smallest hole it has to have a hole of it to be severed in order to be considered a trayfa. Now, what is this pipe going into the heart? We're talking about the fat that's on the walls. So we're talking about a hole in that fat that somehow goes by the heart. But the walls on the side of the animal with fat there, what are you talking about? Why would that make the animal into a trayfa? Rather what must have meant was that the pipe of the heart is talking about the walls on the side of the animal with fat there, what are you talking about? Why would that make the animal into a trayfa? Rather what must have meant was that the pipe of the heart is talking about the walls on the side of the animal with fat there, what are you talking about? Why would that make the animal into a trayfa? Rather what must have meant was that the pipe of the heart is talking about the walls on the side of the animal with fat there, what are you talking about? Why would that make the animal into a trayfa? of the heart is talking about the fat that's on the walls of the lungs because there's this fat tissue that runs between the two lungs and it's pressed up against the spine connected to the heart cavity. There are three pipes that go off from the corner as it enters into the chest of the animal. One goes to the heart, one goes to the lungs, one goes to the liver. The ray is Korea. The pipe of that lung is treated like the lung itself. The ray is the pipe that goes to the liver has a din of the liver itself meaning it's not going to be a treif unless it's completely removed like the liver. And the pipe that goes to the heart we're going to have a problem like we just said before. But now we have a different way around. The ray is that pipe of the lung is treated like the liver meaning it's not a treif unless it's completely gone. The ray is Korea. The pipe of the liver is like the lung that even the small hole make it into a treif and the liver is that pipe that goes to the liver and that will be the problem like we just said before. If that's what Rav said then he doesn't know anything about treif. It's pretty amazing that Rav would say this about Rav but they talked tough because treif is life and death. Okay. The next part of the mission was it's got a broken spine. If it's a severed spinal cord the animal is a treif. The animal is a treif if the spinal cord is split. Even if it's just a small hole in it it's still going to be a treif. And there was one and there was such a kind of an animal that only had a small hole and was not totally severed and Rav said even though Rav had been like him still the treif is like Rav's actual treif. What's considered a treif when we talk about the spinal cord having a treif of it. If an animal is a treif if the spinal cord is split. Even if it's just a small hole in it it's still going to be a treif. And there was one and there was such a kind of an animal that only had a small hole and was not totally >> What's considered a rive when we talk about the spinal cord that could actually be having a rive of it cut? Rav Amar Rav Airey. Rav learn it's the rive of the skin. If that's severed, then the behem is going to be a treifa even if the interior nerve tissue wasn't really split. Fam Rav Mechei, some say it's going to be the actual Mechei which we're defining as the nerve tissue inside. And it's not about the skin on the outside. Well, Mando Rav Mechei Kosher can Rav Airey. That's certainly a bigger deal because Kosher can if the actual Airey is gone, it's not going to be protected and it's going to ooze out. And Rav Airey Rav Mechei Maya, what's going to be the halacha if you hold that the Rav Airey is what can't be severed. But it turns out to be it's the interior Mechei Maya. Is that also going to make the animal to a treifa? Tashma will bring a raya from the following. Da Amar Nivi Amar Rav Huna. Ru by Sha Amar when we talk about Rav that's Rav Airey. Talking about most of the skin. Maya Zali Malav Lemirey. Whether or not this Maya this tissue is going to be enclosed by skin doesn't matter. Doesn't make things better or worse. So what do you see? That when we talk about Rav we're talking about the Airey, but the severing of the Maya is not going to make the animal into a treifa. Rav Nosson bar Avina Yosef came to Rav Bodik bar Rav Airey. He was one time Bodik this Chuta Shedra and he checked whether the skin around the Shedra was cut. The cut Bodik bar Rav Mechei. And once he saw that wasn't cut, he now started looking in the interior to see if it was also not cut. Amar Ley, Rav said to him in Rav Airey Maya Zali Malav Lemirey we know shouldn't matter. Amar Rav bar Rav Shuman Levi, this Maya is possible and this Maya is possible. The Gabi this nerve tissue of the Chuta Shedra, if it's liquefied, it's going to be a treifa. And if it's soft, it'll also be possible. The Azuhi Hamas Masa, how do we classify what's considered liquefying and what's considered softening? Amar Kosher Nishpa Kane. If it's liquefied, then you could pour it out. All that goop on the inside of the spinal column. Amis Amza, Kosher Yachol Lamay. It's so weakened that the animal can't stand upright. By Rav Yermiya, in Yachol Lamay Kvei da Mahu. Let's say the animal can't just support its own weight. Is that considered a treifa also? Now that is take who. By Rav Amri, this Mas Meis is possible. If it's softened, it's for sure going to be puzzle. This mass maze if it's just lost some of its actual substance then kosher it will still be a kosher sheet it's not going to be a treif. May say they asked from the brice up. Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar Imer behaimish in this mass maze my case treif. If an animal that lost some of its nerve tissue it's going to be a treif. So that's connect it rough. Then the Gamara I hear in this mass maze it mar. In that brice up this mass maze is what it said not this mass maze where it was missing stuff. I any is that true? If it's missing some nerve tissue it's not going to make it into a treif. The whole levy have a Yosif ben Masusa. There was once a mice where levy was in the bathhouse. Khazi a little gabra the tar yellow ratio. He saw a guy smash his head into the wall. Homer he said this mass maze my case the Dane. This guy lost part of his brains. But by saying this mass maze in reference to the head getting smashed losing something love the little guy didn't he mean to say the guy's not going to live in this didn't he mean to say this guy's not going to live and therefore he is going to be a treif. Which would go connect it with rough said that the loss of some of this nerve tissue is not going to make the animal into a treif. Amra by a light Lima should I mild? It was going to sterilize him somehow. But in a khalami it's not going to make him die. And this is where we're going to call it and pick it up from my head and Shidra for tomorrow's stuff.