Chullin Daf 42

All right, daf membeys. Thursday's daf as we get to begin perek of eilu treifus. Just by way of introduction, eilu treifus might be unique because it's not just the mitzvah of talmud torah, but there really may be a mitzvah d'oraisa to check for the treifus of animals. The Rambam lists it that way in mitzvah sasei from kuf mem tes to kuf mem beis. And the chinuch brings it that way in kuf mem gimmel that there's a mitzvah to do the bikur to check for these treifus. In which case the learning of this is part of that chelek of a mitzvah sasei, possibly. The Ramban argues and holds it's not a mitzvah, but hey, this may be even bigger than regular talmud torah, so let's take what we can get. Now, a lot of this perek is going to talk about the metzius of the animals. And this of course always begs the question about have things changed? Let's say I see exceptions to the rule and animals can live with some of these defects or vice versa. But it seems that the list that we're about to have now is a halacha l'Moshe mi Sinai, d'oraisa dika level of a list, that this is what the Torah is machshiv as an animal that can't live. And I'll just point out that the Rambam does say that if someone does eat from an animal that had one of these yuchas treifus, they will get malkus mid'rabbanan, which is very problematic because l'chora these are d'oraisa dika treifus. So why should only be malkus d'rabbanan? It could be maybe because it's some sort of technicality about the malkus itself. But if I did it is mitzvah d'oraisa of treifus l'chasei cheilu, so there is that. But let's get started with the list. Zuk d'mishna eilu treifus b'beheima. These are the treifus in animals. Number one, nikuvus haveshes. If there's a hole in the veshes. Veshes is the food pipe, the esophagus. Or upsukas hagargeres, or the windpipe, the trachea, the konech, if it is cut. Then the mishna continues with all the nikuvs. Nikuv krum shel mayach, if there's a hole in the membrane on the brain. He literally has a lachin cup. Or nikuv haleiv l'veis halalei, or there's a hole that punctures all the way in to the heart. Now you may notice already the lashon changed from nikuvus haveshes and upsukas hagargeres, which is in the lashon of hayvei, that the hole or the severing of the trachea is now is in the hayvei. Whereas nikuv sounds like it's past tense, it had a hole. The achronim do pick up on this. Rebbi Akiva Eiger asks it for a kasha, why it changes lashon. And the Avnei Nezer based on this says he is side that for all of the different you'll have to straight face it's all about what happened. The animal was made into a treifa as opposed to the kind of veshet that it's a soul in the mice of shita of what's happening right now. But it actually may make an after come in a whether or not the animal was born that way. There's a lot about this where the argues with I think as a taz whether or not if an animal was born with one of these kinds of defects if it blibes like a neck of it all. Taz says well you wouldn't call a neck of a neck of is a punctured hole. It's not if it's born that way you wouldn't call it a neck of to which the says well I'll bring you a raya from the of we have and we certainly born with those so that's not a hole that happened after the fact. Anyway back to our list. If the spine was broken and the spinal cord was cut or or the liver was taken out and there's nothing left there from it. The lung was punctured or or if it was deficient somehow which seems redundant and the is going to ask about that. I give some nice the lungs are not going to make the animal into a treifa unless it's punctured all the way until the which will touch you the How do I pronounce the word that's spelled b r o n c h i? Is that bronchi or bronchae? >> You pronounce it as bronchi. The singular form is bronchus and the plural form bronchi keeps that hard key sound at the end. >> Which we could touch all the way to the bronchi. The animal is also a treifa if the stomach called the cavea was punctured one of the four stomachs that we're going to learn about. Let's say the gallbladder had a hole in it or the intestines have a hole. If the inner stomach called the has a hole in it or where most of the outside of it was torn. If it's a big animal that sheer for will be a if it's a smaller animal then it'll be about it. And is quick to point out we're not talking about different kinds of animals. It's not about and talking about the same kind of animal just literally about its size. Hemseisu base hakaseisu shenekvu lo chutz. animal will also be a treifa if it has this part of the stomach has a hole. And then the mishna now switches gears and says naflah min hagag. Let's say there's no natural hole inside the animal or a tear, but rather it fell off a roof. And the gemara is going to discuss we're afraid about the risuk eivarim etc. And you shechted it before checking to see if it sustained injuries that would actually let it die. Or nishtabru roiv tzalosav or for some reason most of its ribs were broken. Or drusus hasaeiv or was mauled by some kind of a wolf which has poison coming out of its claws. Rebbi Yehuda aimer drusus hasaeiv bedaka ubedrusus ari begasa. It's going to be a treifa if it's clawed by a wolf, but if it's clawed up by a lion, that will only be by a smaller animal. But if it's mauled or clawed by a lion, it's going to be a treifa even by a large animal. Drusus hanaitz, this kind of predatory bird called a naitz, that will only be ba'eif hadak by a small bird. Udrusus hagas, ba'eif hagas. But this other kind of bird called a gas is going to make it into a treifa even if it's attacking a big bird. Zeh hakol kol she'ein kimeya chaya treifa. Any geshecht an animal that has this defect which would cause a regular living animal to die, will make it into a treifa. Okay, there's our list of 18. So after the gemara amar Rebbi Shimon ben Lakish, remez letreifa min hatoyrah minayin? How do we know there is a remez to treifus? Preik the gemara minayin? The posuk is befeirish in the toyrah. Ubosar basar treifa lo se'acheilu. You're not allowed to eat treifus. Why would Reish Lakish be looking for a remez? Ela what did Reish Lakish mean remez letreifa she'ein achaya min hatoyrah minayin? How do you know that treifus is not going to live? And therefore that's what's meant by the mishna ad diktani seifa zeh hakol kol she'ein kimeya chaya treifa, miklal detreifa ein achaya. So minayin? How do you know a remez in the toyrah that the treifa is ein achaya? Which the gemara says dechasiv because the toyrah says zois achaya asher toichlu. That this chaya you're allowed to eat. Now of course it's talking about a chaya as opposed to beheima, but we can darshan it means chaya like it's going to live. Chaya acheil, you can eat a chaya. She'ein achaya but if it's not going to live, lo se'acheil. You can't eat it. Miklal detreifa lachaya lo se'acheil. So a treifa is the kind of animal that won't survive. It won't live. Preik the gemara al mai damar treifa chaya minayin? And if you hold treifa is chaya, what would be a makor for that? Which is fascinating miklal that we should have a machlokes with a treif as higher treif as in a higher and in fact the Rambam even asks for a kasha when we just test it out this is the kind of thing you could take a whole bunch of animals and determine whether or not these different treif as would cause the animal to die or not I'll go put on this is a like this and the answers how do I know treif it would be higher because I call me a higher a shirt title that we in the voice a higher but higher only the living animal you can eat meaning the typical animals that are in that which don't have any treif as but a different living animal you're not allowed to eat which is referring to a treif as but it sounds like a treif as is higher it's not that the animal is going to die it's just that these are the animals that the tire is enumerating the if you hold treif as in a higher higher voice my over there what are you with the specificity of the word voice me boy the tone of the very smile the tone of the very smile voice a higher but I mean the kind of income in by saying voice this he lose to the fact that took one example of every animal showed it to measure voice the voice you can eat this one you can't eat this one we don't know me and according to the other sheet that holds treif as higher me boy the tone of the very small you also need the voice to teach me this of the tone of the very small so if I tell you you don't have a marker for treif as higher and the treif as higher mean only not either tone of the very small you learn from a different the tone of the very small been a higher or been a higher between the ones you are allowed to eat and the ones you're not allowed to eat a s a treif as number of the missing I there are 18 different kinds of treif as that were given to the mission of and since the tire is describing these kinds of treif as as higher voice voice a treif as is higher that can be the marker for that sheet now we're kind of comfortable with this idea that there's 18 treif as that were given to measure of being on our Sinai for the number of aren't there more but basket of a show of you got the other four different kinds of treif as that are known by the rush of of basket and you got the show of that's not the show of it's the seven kinds of treif as that are not in any of the mission of but the had them in so don't tell me there's only 18 we've got much more than 18 you got this four and seven which are not even in the list. Turning over to Mid Bayis, Bish, Lameh Lo Tanadi Don Our Tana, that even though he lists only 18, he doesn't really say the number. Detona Tana, and therefore we have the license to say that those treifos he listed would be a shayara and the ones he left out as you have a zak klal. They're all part of the general zak klal at the end of the Mishnah. El Lo Tanadi Rebbi Shmuel Dom Shmuel Esrei Treifos. According to Tanadi Rebbi Shmuel, he was very specific, there's only 18. But Besulaka, Boy I could be a heima she niktah chula glava and of the animal whose arkubal amala that high part of the leg was also severed above the joint, that's also going to be a treifa. So, according to Tanadi Rebbi Shmuel, even mentioned this case of the 19th case. And if the Gemara says a leg corruption ben Elazar, Domar Yichalei Leichavias Velichayais, it's possible to cauterize that wound and the animal can survive and therefore it wouldn't actually be a treifa. Okay, so af al gav diyichalei leichavias velichayais, so even if you're going to tell me that you can cauterize and somehow the animal can survive and it won't be a treifa. But Leman Omer, who's he talking to? Lo Tanadi Rebbi Shmuel? Tanadi Rebbi Shmuel's treifa chayas virlei, he holds that a treifa can live and therefore just telling me that this animal with this missing leg can live doesn't mean that it's not a treifa, it could still be a treifa. So, you haven't really answered your kasha, it's not only 18. Ela Sover Law Corruption ben Elazar, Domar Kshereihi and an achami, that kind of wound in the animal of missing that back leg is not going to make it a treifa at all, it will be kosher. Okay, but we haven't answered our real kasha that we started with that according to Tanadi Rebbi Shmuel, there's not 18, there's other lists. Fo Yika Chisarun Beshidra, and we're working our way through this Bazgar list. So, the first one was the Bayis of the Bazgar. Now we're up to the the Samach of the Bazgar cuz there is the cuz the Samach refers to a deficiency in the Shedra of the spinal column, that's nine as the Mishnah in the second perek of Ailus says. Bamai Chisarun Beshidra, how much is considered missing in the spinal column that will change the halachas about the Tumos Hamais? Beishamai Omrim Shtei Chuliyos, two vertebrae. Ubaiso Omrim Chuliya Achas, one vertebrae. Or maybe that's vertebra. The Amora Rebbi Yehuda ben Rebbi Shmuel, Vachein Letreifa, the same halachas about the Tumos Hamais of a person missing these different vertebrae will also be the same thing by an animal. So, Leichaira that should be listed as one of the treifos, Samach of bazgar. Why didn't Tanna d'vei Rebbi Shmuel want to include this as number 19? After the Gemara Amasas, ubais achaisis d'kuchasha d'lubi tarti, because those two could really be counted as one. So, those are chashvinan b'chada. Therefore, apik chada, we freed up one v'ayil chada, we'll add the samach of bazgar for this deficient spine, and that'll be ay v'eika gluda, which is the gimmel of bazgar, a flayed animal that Tanna d'vei Rebbi Shmuel did not want to count that one as number 19, k'savar Rebbi Akiva Rebbi Meir d'machshir, and it's takam kosher, it's not going to be a treifa. Ay v'eika charusa, the reish of bazgar, which is going to be the charusa, meaning the lung was shriveled up, and Tanna d'vei Rebbi Shmuel didn't want to count that one as number 19. And for the Gemara, k'mar man k'tanila, who is the tanna that learns that a mara, the gallbladder that has a hole in it, lives a treifa? That's Rebbi Eliezer Rebbi Yehuda. So, we can suggest that Tanna d'vei Rebbi Shmuel doesn't agree with the tanna in the Mishna on that, and therefore apik mara, v'ayil charusa, take out the gallbladder and add the shriveled lung. Okay, so we took care of the bazgar. B'frekhta Gemara, the kasha we're writing for v'eika shushmaitsi, you got seven more that are not even in the Mishnayos that we're going to list now that also should have been part of the list. D'amar Rav Masna, chabuka d'atma ishuf miduch d'treifa, if the joint of the thighbone popped out of place, it's also going to make it into a treifa. And apparently, it's not just a dislocated joint, but there's also some of the gidin that have disintegrated in the process. Apparently, we're going to learn more about that on daf nun dalet amud beis. The second one on the list, d'amar Rav Ashi b'pupa mishmei d'Rav, luxa b'chulya achas treifa, if even one of its kidneys became diseased, it's going to be a treifa. The third one is v'tna nitla t'reila k'sheira, if the spleen was taken out, the animal is going to be kosher. D'amar Rav Avira mishmei d'Rava, l'sharon l'shli nitla v'ninkav treifa, but if the spleen has a hole in it, it's going to be a treifa. Number four, v'amar Rava bar bar Chana amar Shmuel, simanom shin nidal d'lu b'ruban treifa, if the kun and the veshet were detached, you may remember this from earlier in the mesechta about how grama, that will also make the animal into a treifa. V'amar Rava bar Rav Shila amar Rav Masna amar Shmuel, nekra tzelami kar treifa, if a rib was dislocated from its base, the animal will be a treifa. D'gulgeles shinichbis b'ruban or v'reiv, if the skull was crushed, it'll be a treif or a basar or a chupas reiva cheres berubai or the basar that covers most of the part of the stomach was also missing most of it. All those things will be treif. That's number five, six, and seven. So, why did the Tanna d'vei Rebbi Yishmael not count the shav shmaitsa of these seven additional treifos, which the Gemara says, "We did count them. Nikuvim tmanya haveei." Whenever we said about in our Mishna there are nikuvim, there are these different hole and things, there's eight of those total hole kinds of cases. So, "Chashveinu b'chad." Therefore, you could put them all together as one treifa. So, "Apik shav." Therefore, you could take out seven from your previous count of 18. "V'ayil shav it." And instead in its place put in the shav shmaitsa, the seven new cases that we just said. So, you take out seven, you put in seven, and now we have back to our 18. So, "Yachli." If you're telling me that all of the nikuvs count as one treifos, "Psukim nami treihavei." Then also the psukim, the severed different parts of the body that our Mishna listed two of them, meaning the severed trachea, the severed koneh, or the severed shedra. "Also chashveinu b'chad." They should also count them as one cuz you should put together all these different like-minded lists. And therefore, "Butzra l'chada." And therefore, according to the braisa, you're not going to have 18, you're only going to have 17. "V'oid d'Rava v'Rabbanan d'Rava" who talked about that punctured spleen as one of the seven, "Nami nikuvim." That's that's another example of a punctured one, which therefore shouldn't be counted separately, it should be part of your list of seven. Moving over to Amud Aleph, "Ela hanach tarti d'afkei zai teipuk." So, something like that. "Amar Rava, what do you got to say? That the two that you took out beforehand don't take them out." Meaning the animal that's leg was severed from the high up or an animal that was flayed. Those examples keep them in the list and therefore we won't be missing and you'll actually get to your 18 for Tanna d'vei Rebbi Yishmael. And we have made our entree into this amazing perek and b'ezras Hashem we'll pick it up with Friday's daf tomorrow.