Chullin Daf 32

All right, daff lamemed bay. This is Monday's daff and we're picking it up from the bottom line of lamid bay. We have been discussing the idea of kavana when it comes to misuson and rnosen. Getting back to paradum and while you're the paradum you alsoed another which is a big no no both and the raonan are going to hold that the paraduma is going to be pussle. Now this doesn't share the hulandic animal that you were shinging. We don't care about the hulan animal but the paraduma that we have a capa that you can't do any other with it. It's going to be ruined because you'reing this animal. Moving over to however let's say it's not that you at the same time animal but you without even realizing it a animal along with the paraduma. Well, in that case the paradum is still going to be ple because according to Nelson you never needed the kavana but according to the raonan parakra absula it's the other way around because since it's a pleita for the kulen therefore you didn't really share the paradum is not saying anything we don't know already we already know that if you're in another when you're doing the paraduma you're going to parad no because there's here that's the according to who's not of the for because The Tory says you got to it which is the can only the parad and not any other along with it. What would be that case if the two paradumas which is kind of amazing because there's only been what is it seven or nine paradumas in the history of Israel I forget the number but it's very rare a paraduma but it could be it's being may such a case if you two paradumas at the same time maybe the is not may when the ising another animal of therefore that the is any concurrent with another animal as well and then lastly says let's say when he also he cuts a cucumber or something the point is everybody's going to be masking that the cutting of the is going to blah that will pass your paraduma but let's say if the knife just extends beyond the paradum and cuts this das and it's not like an intentional mala well then derail kra so that's an extension of ra's now let's get into shahla let's say while the is doing his work he drops the knife and he picks it right up. So there's a break now in the mashita. We're not worried about the knife getting a nick cipher speaks out. If the knife would drop on the tip of the knife, well then you have to stop everything and check the knife now. But right now we're just talking masikman here. So I dropped the knife picked right back up or let's say his clothing slipped off of him or some kind of kay that required him to take a break and pick it up or let's say let's say he was busy sharpening the knife and he got so tired from the physical activity of the sharpening of the knife. So he started the after this sharpening but he was just knocked out. So he was too tired to finish the job. And then so his buddy came and finished the job for him. But again it's another version of having a break in the middle of the so if the was long enough which we're going to see what that means in the gum it'll be as long as it takes to check it out. And we're also have to see what that means will be the let's define that. What does it mean as long as it takes to do the length of time it takes to sh another animal which is actually a bigger ka than you might have thought because it's even a whole another animal we might have thought is just finishing this animal which might just be more but no it's more the time it takes to do a full other words the other that you have to measure that amount of time is that animals for animals and a bird for a or maybe an animal for an animal and also are we standardizing it or not said back I wasn't able to ask my uncle Rashi says over his uncle who was an uncle from both sides he didn't have the opportunity to ask him the if it's life it's respective whatever you'reing you have to have that kind of an animal that amount of time to be a life if you'reing a chicken who can be make have the mount of Shah even for an animal which is larger which seems to be the gear the miss saying that the is as long as it takes to go get another animal in what bringing another animal for another location well how far away was this other animal that you had to go get that's not going to work as a no we're talking about if the animal is there but you got to bring it and hold it down that's going to be enough between we're talking about taking the animal laying it down and it all respective to the kind of animal that you're trying to we got like three or four different for how long is the toita let's say you have a dull knife sure you might have to go slicing back and forth so even though the is going to take you a very long time because it's a dull knife But yet it's still gonna be kosher. So boy, what happens if this had made a bunch of short pauses during such a and together you can bear the be of will that work? Can you bear different little to come to that shar of the day? Why don't we have a from the of the fact that you beh all day with the dull knife and it's going to be work as a so says we're not worried about being mitarif small pauses ter says no because it's easy to get out of that ria because could be the guy was constantly taking the dull knife and going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and therefore there was no shah at all to be mistar of let's say the did a shah after he did raim this is of course rashi same kind of rashi we had from two days ago where there's a shila in the mi basra mahu It's going to be the if I do a shah at the very end of the process to that the gar says tu of course back on shabas daf the rabama over there had said on daflammed that rashi is wrong and we're talking about a shah right in the beginning the shil is whether or not the beginning of the can just can be discarded if it was just a small shah and it's not in the mutas like rashi learns then the said long as it takes to do a to check something out then the will be possible that's the amount of time for so what does that as long as it takes to have look at the knife of the I mean where in the world is this you got to go to how long is that going to take now we're talking about the himself is a he has to check his own knife so when he does that that's something that you can actually have put his man to so that's the amount of time that will cause a now we're getting into eor over here let's say the food pipe, but you were you kind of tore out the how did it get torn? Because let's say the knife itself had a nick in it. Or the other way around. Let's say after cutting one of these two simony, he waited till the animal died. Let's say after cutting the first and he sticks the knife into the neck and then cuts it from back to front, which is another way of saying. So in all these cases, we'll say it's going to be a nea. Who's Rubish of Rashi tells us it's the shame? He brings a mocker from Dria Yamim. It's a little bit strange that Rashi should do that. You can listen to grossness peru discusses it. But anyway says it's a so it's certainly going to the question is does it going to have to or not? Whatever became is going to bbe however if it was a kosher and some exterior factor caused it to become a in that case it's not going to but rather it'll be ultimately was masking to etc. If you do on one of the simum and then the nick in the knife ruined the other simo raka ultimately was mask that it'll bla fractur vini this mishna is going to be cicer another mishna coming up on me where the mishna says aloo traus bea turning over bay nua hagaras these kinds of animals that have these wounds and holes in their simon but since was mask that any behemoth that became pulle ali bib a nolla Well, now we've knocked out both and who's going to be the T of this Mishna which is essentially making a steer between these Mishna and for the rest of the we're just going to work on this. They're talking about two different cases. Our mission is talking about where the first properly and did the Akira on the afterwards. But the Mishna of Trafus is talking about first there was the where he tore the and then afterwards there was the on the where he first did the and then after that the took place. So it became in that case both is going to hold that the animal besides a which is the case of our Mishna but so in a certain way it's like a different factor causing it to become not in that case both and that's what's going on in asking from our Mishna or so it'll Naa even though in the second case the echor of the nea precedes the shita of the vashet but raishv still holds at the animals of noa and is ultimately masim. So it's a very nice little you want to make in these nice but you see from the armishna it can't work and for the gammor what we'll say is that in the second case of where he did the on the what it really means is it was so that way the order is maintained but the doesn't like that because of saying to that there really two reasons why that can't work it'll be exactly like the first case in the Mishna because it makes no difference whether or not theor and the happen at the same time or whether or not the happens first either way The animal bea the Bryce speaks that he first did the on the and then there was the on the which is exactly what Rava said is the second case of the Mishna in Alut Trafus. So Rava can't for emperor are Mishna by saying it's a different case say hello the Mishna in the beginning of Alut Trafus is really saying that these behemoths are user vesh tra and some of them are novel and some are traus. So really the first two cases in the Mishna are just giving you the general rule of the Mishna but we're not talking specifically Na versus Trava if that's the case Nami if you're telling me that the Mishna in the beginning of Trafus is also handling cases of noa then's case should also be listed what's that caseia noa meaning you just chop it head off or you slice down the whole width of the animal it's going to bla immediately and also you should have case which is and what's that if the animal's thigh was taken out and there's There's a huge cavity there. It's going to also bibla right away. The point is there's other examples that our listed when the is talking about we're talking about the kind of that wouldn't be while it's still alive like those examples like it's just not what the case of the tra is going to be talking about or another the beginning of but why is it not a steerish the case of our is talking about where the did the in the place when there was already an existing cut, an existing wound. But over there in the mission, the beginning of Alut Trafus the cut was not being done where there's a preceding cut. He explains that's because if you're going to in the same place where it was already cut that's not a to begin with. So you can't see it as a properly traa and that's why both will hold but if you don't in the place where there was a prior cut there it's like an external factor caused it to become puzzle in which case both and are going to bribe this animal as a tra and that's going to be the second case of the mission of traus but did really say that let's say a case where the animals K was cut and then right away the lung was punctured which is one of the traes we're going to learn about the it's that wound to the lungs is not going to now make it into a tra but what does he see from it's command because once the ka is actually it's like it's not there anymore and it's almost like there's only one simmon left just the veset and since that would be a proper the animal can't be seen as a traa so this lish is considering it a traa is a steer to this idea of the puncture in lung. So we have a problem now reconciling these two and here also where the in a place other than the original hole it's like that broken and split is as if it's outside the animal's body. It's inside the basket and therefore the animal should be considered a and not a tra like says it was before but our miss is talking about after and therefore don't worry about the it's exactly correct it's just taking place let's talk about what actually said if first And then afterwards the lung got punctured. That's not a traa. He's only talking about the lung. The lungs of course take the air from the ka which is the wind pipe. That's the trachea. But let's say if the puncture happened in the intestines in the then the will not be kosher that make it into a traa. Weren't you telling me that the animal is going to be kusher even though there is a sim of taras here? So mi so mali berea maliim seems like he's understanding that once the animal is partially gashen you can no longer look at it as a traa because you can only be a trafa when it's a full animal that has one of these traus. So Dr. Zera even a hole in the bayam should not matter because labisa the kunn was already cut and therefore we're not handling full healthy animal that's shy to the traphus and the garamar is now going to save rabies and bring aha that he was but we're going to save that for tomorrow's daf and we'll pick it up from here