Chullin Daf 28

All right, this is Thursday's daff and we're going to pick it up on eight lines from the bottom. You don't have to and this that we birds are only as long as the dam is coming out that's all that's necessary in order to be of the kis and you don't have to have a that doesn't mean you could take a shotgun to the animal. You still have to cut it in that mocha mashita but not with a regular you could do a n at least that's the pastas from rashi the rajba clearly spells it out but I believe the miri is the one that argues with the rajba and says no if you don't need to have aita then we don't have any capate at all about how you kill the all right this memor is that you do not if you're telling me that the is referring to pingita well that p is not only talking about remember is for and So kayami also a kay should not need to which the gumar answers well iskishi are hush to be that were not that became puzzle for carbon which of course those carbonas require a proper so two kayas require a proper so why are you telling me that only because the should extend to the because since the expressly says it prevents you from having this. Well, why is that? Who says that the going on the and therefore say it's going on because it's also in the same which the is going on because that's what the was just talking about. So it's more that that saying that you only need to have we're going to ask on this idea of that from the following. Let's say the is doing his best, but lo and behold, he messed up and now it's avail. talking about and that Mishna will not pose a question if you'reing an animal that would require but I need the dam and by doing the koi I'm not going to have the dam that I need why do I need the dam we'll see soon in the gummor but the hal is tough luck even though putting the dirt on the dam is going to ruin my ability to use the dam so how can I get the d in other words how can I create a situation where I'm not so the is now moving over to medal this case of doing a can't we assume we're talking about an because then I would need the dam the le bird blood apparently by putting it on clothing can stave off tailas the insects the moths so that kind of telles would require this d of the and therefore your is to not do a but so the gar is asking though according to that should still be and you haven't gained anything which the gar says it's not talking about the dham of at all it's so what are you using the blood for the kable Lo apparently the dam of aaya can be used in the process of making a dye assuming a red dye and inami then the hero would the in such a case it is interesting that you're killing an animal and that's mut there is a very interesting taz in that's discussing the sim about having with traus because you're not allowed to be in business selling tra meat that really is a furious based on the mishna in shas so the taz one time got a shila from these guys who were handling ing the skins of the tim these animals. So they weren't eating the meat and they didn't want to bother with the have to pay etc. So they wanted to do the to these. So it's a layered shila because there's a issue, there's a bash issue and the taz took care of all those. But the big issue about can I do the with isurim you see from our suga that it's not a problem because killing these in order to have the dam so you can make dyes seems to be perfectly mut and the way the taz explains it is because even the mission in it that says you can't do with that's if you're trying to but if it's let's say in your net you managed to get something not kosher you're allowed to do business with that because you weren't seeking it out because this is essentially a muta practice even though you're ending up with an animal that's user to eat the taz mak that's called is damn but this halok is not pushed the shak brings from the maspan that argues with this idea I think the bach also argues and I'll have to say a different shot of why argamur does not seem to be concerned with getting the d okay vosshma let's ask from a mission that should seem pretty familiar to us from back invimak bakin let's say does malika with a sakin with a knife instead of his fingernail like he's supposed to so the question is what's the status of this dead bird now it's going to have like is saying even when the breaks the back of the neck of this bird so it's not yet a noa but so still according to when you're coming now to with a knife that should be matar from da so why is it going to be you're right that mission is not going like but has another tana to rely on because I'll show you a fair it says reeler Rashi says means a god that had said the puts together the guy with the guy. Why is the identifying specifically the in the you could have skipped those words that you need to these kinds of animals that this is that there's no saying that is only can now certainly rely on this and therefore he's not going to be phased if you show me a mission that doesn't go like that. Who's the one who argues? Meaning now that we've established So it's all part of the same mess that Mosha was given that you have to the of one simmon by an therefore rebi is the one whopper and we can all go home happy the had said you need to only cut one of the simon of a bird for that to work now it doesn't matter which simmon you cut as long as you cut one of them no it's the food pipe the esophagus not the not the wind pipe not the trachea cuz if you only cut the k it will be puzzled. Now if I cut the k first did I make the animal into a traa that now I can no longer cut the veh says no even cutting the k is not going to make it into a traa. Okay but we have this now is it either or or the says one and that means whichever one you want to do as long as it's one because he looks at the word differently. It's mu can sometimes mean unique and that it's special because we know that the has an extra over the as we're going to learn in the Mishna later on inv that even the smallest hole in the veh creates tarfus as opposed to the k where it has to be a much more substantial hole to create a trafus. So this expression of is not saying one in a numerical sense but saying it's not the we're saying hashem is one as opposed to more than one that might be borderline fear to even be saying that kind of thing. When we say hashemishes we're saying is okay. Now let's try to bring whether or not is it can you either one of the orav that you have to we had this beforehand. If after the then afterwards that became detached from the jaw well then because you did a first and it was not yet a tra. However, if the order was reversed, so first that dislocation took place. Well, now it's pula because you'reing a traa. But what about if you don't know is okay that's the bry now did not say anything about and then afterwards it would be nish. So clearly it's going negative of that you can't just pick whichever one you want which the garb says is not because the is more likely than the vesh to become detached. So it's the more normal case. You see you no longer have a de whether or not if you before it was be a so let's try again two halves of both different because you didn't do of anything where you have to both of the extra you have to cut the blood vessels this which is beyond just the but there's nothing in this that says you have to the you have a negative That's not one of the options because it only mentions the so it sounds like for the it's because the mitsus is such that the is next to the vid and that's why it got mentioned but it's not that you can another says after the cut half of the ker and then he waited long enough to do another classic shah and then he finished. Now even though Shah is one of the five different this is not considered aul because the cutting no more than half of the ka is not going to be the beginning of aita because even if half of the kana was already cut the animal wouldn't be yet a traif can't we just assume we're talking about a bird and what does it mean he finished it gumaras that after that shah he finished the cutting of that ka so the is telling us that cutting the ka alone is a proper light no from the bry because we're talking about an animal myra What's the finishing that he's doing? That's both the ka and the which is of course what you have to cut for another bar. Let's say half of the ka was already half cut before the got involved and the came and kind of finished the job. Can't we assume we're talking about a knife that he was cutting that? So the b is telling us the ka alone is a good light. It's not the right way to read the Bryson buser because you can't cut buser because that would actually kill the animals and therefore the Malik would be on an avail. So what does he do? He cuts with his nail once he gets to one of the two he cuts one of them. But by the case of the the Bryce is saying he cuts one of the that could be either the or the which is exactly. So you see the Bryce is bearish like not like and to that you're right. Okay. So my law what's going to be the fact we just said we just knocked out. So as we see from this brace here you could sh either the ka or the which the says delash the it's not a regular case of justing one of the sim you're already killing this already because of the shed but my what's going to be the by a regular if you only one of the two sim either the ka or the will bring another there was once a duck that was in the house of the neck of this duck already had a lot of blood on it How should we look and do theika to see if this animal is a traa turning over bay? It's got a bloody neck already. So first if we should check it and then check it out. We don't know. Maybe it was already a tra in the then we won't ever know. If we check it first the smallest little hole of a makes a bird or an animal into a tra. So Ravo is concerned about a little dumb going into that hole. And as Rashi explains, the veset has two layers of skin. There's an outer red one which is full of dam and and can't really be inspected properly with a regular external bika but the inner layer is white and you can actually do a proper bedika on the veset from the inside. So therefore the only way to properly look at the vashet is from the inside. So if we were to actually do theika properly before it we would actually make it into a traa. So beret ra's son said to let's first be and then just and that will make it kosher because all you have to do is the decay then afterwards we can take out the whole and turn it inside out and check it out because at that point it's already my boy is a bucky like the but what do you see from the story he said so is it doesn't have to be the could even be the and therefore we're not going to revive the not just from that price of Malika but even from this story which will help us pass in and the said you have to also cut the not just the two of you cook the whole bird in and we have more concerns when it comes to the dam that's when you have to also cut the so the dam will go out since you actually cut the animal into multiple pieces you don't to do the on the when you first come to it neck. So it sounds like the time the whole reason is saying you got to cut the is because of the you might come to but we see from the mission. So sounds like you're doing it at the same time. It's part of the and not something that you can do after the fact. But it's not so fair because ammo you can really say what meant in the mission is as long as the makes a hole in the and when says until he doesn't mean that the vid is part of the which is a practical matter because at the time of the you want to make the hole in the because that way the blood will drain because the blood is still warm and therefore it'll come out more easily. the Bryce is saying there are saying the are along with the it's part of the act it's part of the but it's not so true because you can read the Bryce differently but the Ven are just a practical manner to drain out and you should do it at the time of the but it's not part of the we have another this Bryce says from the fact that only says that the point of mentioning is just for the practical matter of getting rid of that damalita why do even need to do with butaluda from the fact that Huda's bala are asking about the clearly himself holds it is part of the process. So this is ofda that held was just doing the practical issue of getting the dam out but it wasn't part of the which the gar says relay all the plug were asking was malakita malakita but whoever but himself because the dam is still warm it'll come out faster so it's more practical to do it then it's colder and the dam I guess it's more coagulated somehow it won't come out as fast and therefore it doesn't have the same practical effect boy. According to Rihuda that you have to cut these verdier will be to it clearly was unaware of how was learning heruda that it's just a practical matter. He's he seems to be asking. So is going to be while cutting the say just cut it with anything. Just cut it with a thorn get it done. It's not part of the as long as you can actually drain the Ven you can just take care of it. So we're not going to care about the other like and exactly half of both sim of the birds because you didn't do enough where you actually have to cut both which really sounds from this bryce like that the is part of the you have to cut the by the as part of it. All right, we're going to stop here and pick it up at the two dots for tomorrow's