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Chullin Daf 22
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Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
All right, today's daf is daf kuf beis.
The first day of Yom Tov is daf. And
yesterday we were working through the
braisa of the three different shittos of
Tanna Kamma, Rebbe Yishmael, and Rebbe
Elazar bar Rebbe Shimon, that how do we
look at the limit of olah tzrifah chatas
tzrifah? According to the Rabbanan, that
just like the olah tzrifah, the rosh and
the guf is separated, so so too by
melikah for the olah tzrifah, you have
to completely cut both simanim of the
korban and the basar. Rebbe Yishmael had
darshined it differently, that the Torah
is issur, that you can't be mavdil is
only by a chatas tzrifah and not by an
olah tzrifah. In an olah tzrifah you
should not cut both simanim. Rebbe
Elazar bar Rebbe Shimon actually argues
with the Tanna Kamma and doesn't make
the hekesh between the melikah of olah
tzrifah and its haktarah that you need
to separate it from the guf. That's
where we're going to pick it up from
now, on kuf beis amud aleph, on the
sixth line. The Tanna Kamma, meaning
shittas Rabbanan, "V'im acher d'nafkan
umolak v'hiktar." Once we established
that you have to separate the head of
the olah tzrifah from its guf, so
v'ikrivu umoli, why do we need the extra
drasha of you have to be makriv it,
which is madgish the uniqueness between
the olah tzrifah and the chatas tzrifah,
and therefore teaching us that the
melikah of an olah tzrifah is not only
al y'dei one siman, which is the case by
the chatas tzrifah. But you don't need a
pasuk for this, because we know it from
umolak v'hiktar. So the Gemara says, "I
love ekrivai, had it not been for that
additional drasha of ekrivai, have we
amina my kamishpat kamishpat chatas
tzrifah?" Meaning that the olah tzrifah
is just like the chatas tzrifah, in that
you don't separate the head from its
guf. So therefore I say v'hakrivu, and
therefore v'hakrivu tells us that
kamishpat is not talking about the
chatas tzrifah, rather a beheimas
chatas. That's what the Gemara says, "I
love ekrivai, have we amina my kamishpat
kamishpat chatas tzrifah? V'im yishom
umolak v'hiktar." If you're going to
tell me from this drasha umolak
v'hiktar, we're learning out that olah
tzrifah requires separating the rosh
from its guf, you can't tell me
kamishpat is talking about a chatas
tzrifah, because that would come out the
wrong halacha. So what do we need
v'hakrivu for? For the Gemara, "Have we
amina ma hiktar v'reish rosh
umizbei'ach?" That halacha that you do
it on the mizbei'ach of melikah v'reish
rosh umizbei'ach, meaning above the
chota sikra, and since you could use the
hekesh to tell you this, and since this
halacha has no shaychus to the halacha
of the rosh being separated from the
body, it's not going to stop us from
learning from kamishpat the most pashut
meaning, which is that it's referring to
the chatas tzrifah, and we learn that
the olah tzrifah is not separate. But
hashta d'kasa Rachmana v'ekrivai, and
therefore it can't be talking about the
Rashba ami.
so I can now Darshan that the
is not only telling us that an
Malika is done on the top of this back
but also that the must be separated the
Rash and the Guf. So now we've got our
three different days and we understand
the
we're going to go back to yesterday's
price that gave us a bunch of different
at the time of learned from Behemus that
apply to an
so number one Behemus
element
how do you know that a Behemus can't
come from anything but Cullen cuz there
is a
Cullen Omar Khizra Omar the Arab part of
the
so the which is muted so we Darshan
below the below the
next was that you have to bring the
during the day for the Gamara by
maybe
the way I know that an is brought during
the day is because all are brought by
the day including an
so why did the need to learn from
Behemus which the Gamara is you're right
it's
we didn't really need to learn the
because we already knew you have to
bring the by day. Now let's just pause
here for a moment because there is a
very Gamara honestly I have heard this
this that I'm about to tell you for
decades and I'm so excited that now it's
finally and I kind of understand it for
the first time. I know that sounds
dramatic but but finally hearing and
understanding this part was a personal
win for me. Anyway here's the idea. The
Gamara here is saying that I don't need
any kind of to tell me that
has to be brought by day. All are
brought by day. And the Gamara just says
okay you're right it's
there really is no reason to say it but
that's not the only
of this particular Gamara. There's a
in the
you want to see that it's in else in the
and the and the both bring a different
in this Gamara that says that really
there is a
that we need a to tell you that you
bring
only by day. And here's this alternate
Gamara
only the
is brought by day
in
come
that's this other Gamara that I would
have had a you could bring the
also by night and the Rashba the Rash
both ask why in the world would that be
true? Why could you possibly bring an
oil saif at night? Why should it be any
different than a hatas saif or any other
carbon for that matter? And based on
that, the Rashba changes the girsa to
the girsa that we have in front of us
and says the whole Gemara doesn't exist
in that way. And it's
However, there is an Or Sameach and this
Or Sameach comes along with a story. One
time, the Makar Baruch, who apparently
was some kind of a talmid by Reb Meir
Simcha, came to Reb Meir Simcha one day
and saw Reb Meir Simcha was thrilled,
momish happy. And Reb Meir Simcha told
the Makar Baruch that I was mechaven to
mitzvah of shulchan tehorah. Now, wow,
that's like a pretty heavy thing to say.
What's the pshat? Because Reb Meir
Simcha thought of a vart, fell asleep,
and had the following dream. And this is
the Makar Baruch in his hakdama actually
relating this that Reb Meir Simcha told
him that in shamayim, the talmidei
chachamim were all sitting around
essentially complaining that no one
really is mechaven to Torah She'emus.
And the Rashba got up and said there's
one yid in D'vinsk who learned Torah
She'emus cuz I didn't know pshat, but he
figured out pshat. And then Reb Meir
Simcha woke up knowing that his pshat
was Torah She'emus. So, what was the
pshat that Reb Meir Simcha said that was
momish Torah She'emus? That the Rashba
himself was maskim to the Or Sameach.
The Or Sameach writes, and he writes
this in Hilchos Ma'aser Sheni perek
zayin halacha gimmel, that really the
girsa like the Rashba has is the correct
girsa. That we had a hava amina that
only a hatas saif can't be brought by
night, but an oil saif could be. And the
reason is because based on an Even Ezra,
because the pasuk says by the carbon oil
of the ya'erid, which is what we're
talking about over here, that if a
person can't afford to bring their
carbon, they got to bring two birds.
They got to bring an oil saif and a
hatas saif. And the question is, why
should they have to bring an oil saif at
all? Remember, they're bringing a carbon
oil of the ya'erid to do teshuvah for an
aveira. There's a few different specific
aveiros that you bring the carbon oil of
the ya'erid for. So, we get why you
bring the hatas saif. It's for the
kaparah. But what's the point of the oil
saif? An oil doesn't speak to the
kaparah. And the Even Ezra makes this
point in Chumash. And he answers, so the
Even Ezra, that since the hatas oil goes
completely to the kohanim, we bring also
the oil saif because of its emurin.
Because the emurin are going to be
burned on the mizbei'ach. Now, so the Or
Sameach, the halacha by emurin is that
you can burn them at night. So, come to
chais, if the hakrava of the oil saif is
connected to hakravas ha'emurin as a
chatas beheima. So, now it makes sense
that the hava mina of the Gemara would
be that I understand that you can't
bring the chatas oif by night cuz you
can't bring any korbanos at night. But,
if it was up to R' Shimon in this girsa,
I would have a hava mina that the olos
oif I could bring by night because I'm
bringing the olos oif, I'll see emurin
for that kapara, and the emurin could be
brought by night. So, that kamashma lan,
you can't even bring the olos oif at
night. To this, the Rashba was masking
that even though he changed the girsa in
the Gemara, he was masking it to that
Yidden of D'vinsk who was mechaven to MS
La'Ameitai. Pretty cool vert and story.
Okay, back to the Gemara. Next halacha
of the braisa bright, that the kohen has
to use his right hand when he brings the
chatas oif. Just like a beheima's
chatas. From the Gemara, yada hayeminus
mid'Rabba bar bar Chana nafka. So, amar
Rabba bar bar Chana amar R' Shimon bar
Lakish, kol makom she'ne'emar etzba ikah
kehuna, whenever we have this lashon of
etzba kehuna in the ele yamin. So, we
don't need this drasha from chatas
beheima. But, zakt the Gemara, v'eeda,
the other tan who argues with this
halacha, which happens to be R' Shimon,
kehuna b'oi etzba, over etzba lo b'oi
kehuna. So, you can't necessarily make
that drasha universally. Well, maybe
that's why we needed to learn it from
chatas beheima. Now, just finishing up,
in the braisa we had that mitan d'kashya
of R' Yishmael who learned that kamishpa
was teaching me that the melika of an
olos oif is done from the aireh, from
the back. So, the Gemara had the other
tan know that. The tana kama of R'
Eliezer or R' Shimon, me'mulo ha'airev
me'na lohu? So, the Gemara says, gamrei
melika me'melika. We learn the melika of
an olos oif from a regular melika by a
chatas oif. Okay. Zakt the mishna, we're
going to do more comparisons in this
which is going to be the format of the
upcoming mishnayos, just like that last
mishna was saying that we compare the
melika to shchita. Now, we're going to
do other kinds of comparisons. We're
going to get a little far afield, but
let's see. Kasher b'tayarin, pasul
b'vnei Yaina. Anything that is kasher
for tayarin, tayarin is a little bit of
a shaila what it means. It could be
ravens or turtledoves, we'll just tie it
as tayarin. If it's kasher for tayarin,
it's going to be pasul for b'nei Yaina,
and we're going to see what that means.
And likewise, kasher for b'nei Yaina,
pasul for tayarin. It has to do with how
old or young they are. But, they are
opposite kashrus halachos. And just a
very interesting Rashi over here which
almost seems like a joke. If you look at
Rashi right at the beginning of the
mishna, it says, b'tayarin, lashon
mishna. Well, thank you, Rashi. I mean,
I know, I'm reading the mishna. What
What Rashi possibly saying it's saying
lashon mishna? So, there's a Rashi Yosef
that says a very mystifying shad that
the word Tyron in our Mishnah doesn't
exist in the Humash cuz in the Humash
it's with a lam, Tyron. But yet our
Mishnah says Tyron. So, it's like Rashi,
Tyron is lotion Mishnah. That's how
Rashi's learning that kasha that you
might have about the end and lam. And in
Al Hapanim, the Mishnah ends off by
saying Chilas Hatzi Hu Bazeh U'Bazeh Is
Pasul. When there is this yellowing in
both Tyron and Ben Ayina, it will pasul
the birds. So, we're going to talk about
this in the Gemara.
Tyron Gedolim Ksheirim. If the Tyron are
big, meaning they're grown up, they will
be kasher. Meaning you can't use little
baby Tyron for your korban. You have to
have them be a certain age. Ktanim are
psulim. If they're too young, they're
going to be pasul. Ben Ayina is the
opposite. Ktanim Ksheirim and Gedolim
are psulim. Nimtza Kasher Ba'Tyron Pasul
Ben Ayina and Kasher Ben Ayina Pasul
Ba'Tyron. So, they are opposite in terms
of their kashrus. So, there's no way
you're bringing Tyron and Ben Ayina at
the same time if they're the same age
cuz they
both can't be kasher. Tyron Rabbanan.
Tyron, as we pointed out that the Tyron
uses an end of mem. Tyron Gedolim V'Lo
Ktanim. If the pasuk says it's Gedolim,
it's talking about older Tyron. And you
can't bring Ktanim because she Yochav
didn't know I might have thought of Kal
V'Chomer to say if I carried turning
over to mem bet. U'Ma Ben Ayina Sh'Lo
Ksheiru Ba'Gedolim Ochsheiru Ba'Ktanim.
The Ben Ayina is not going to be kasher
when they're older. Yet they're kasher
when they're small. So, Tyron
Sh'Ochsheiru Ba'Gedolim Eino Din
Sh'Ochsheiru Ba'Ktanim. One of those
kind of Talmudic Kal V'Chomers that
like, okay, you know, but that's but
that's a legal Hava Mina. So, Talmud
Lomer that Tyron comes and says, Dafka
Tyron are Gedolim V'Lo Ktanim. And
likewise the other way around. Ben Ayina
are Ktanim V'Lo Gedolim. She Yochav
didn't know I might have said a Kal
V'Chomer the other way. Ma Tyron Sh'Lo
Ochsheiru Ba'Ktanim Ochsheiru
Ba'Gedolim. The Tyron are not going to
be kasher when they're so small. But yet
they'll be kasher when they get older.
So, Ben Ayina Sh'Ochsheiru Ba'Ktanim
Eino Din Sh'Ochsheiru Ba'Gedolim. Talmud
Ben Ayina That It's Ktanim V'Lo Gedolim.
So, my Talmud, you got to first give me
the starting point. How do I know from
the pasuk that older Ben Ayina are going
to be pasul? And for the Gemara, Omar
Rava, L'Shitamit Krov V'Lichtav. There's
no pasuk that ever deviates from the way
it's written. Min Benay Ha'Tyron O Min
Ha'Ayina. It always calls it Ben Ayina.
You don't have the word Ayina by itself.
It always has this qualifier of or
but
is never qualified by a or
maybe all the
telling us that when it says
therefore
as opposed to
but that's only for the
where it never gives this qualifier
you should be able to bring either one
my
after all and
this mutually exclusive kind of process
is learned from the fact that we compare
the two different kinds of birds. Only
going to be one age group.
I might have had a half a minute that
all and
should be time of men hot that the seems
to say there's only certain kinds that
are going to be sounds like only a
minute like all the also says and
so what's that coming to be
probably
it's like this intermediate stage that
can be seen in the birds when they kind
of yellow somehow. So when this color
change happens they age out and become
too old for
but they're still too young for the
at what point do the become and how old
do they need to be? Well, they need to
be when they become this color of yellow
or gold but
when do they
when do they age out
when the reach their golden years and
they now are too old they'll become kind
of
unique name
at what point do
the
become which is kind of a funny question
because until now we've been saying that
they need to be young. So why wouldn't
they just be okay when they are first
born? Like why do I need to wait at all?
points out that waiting eight days is
only for animals not for birds. So why
in the world can't I just start right
away? says
something very interesting. says to be
the day that birds are born
they are gross. So
at what point do they stop being gross
and you can start using them as a
carpet? Now this idea of
he doesn't bring any for this and then I
They Kayla on the Rambam who don't bring
this halacha point out that Rashi is
very much on the stick. I mean, it just
seems like a that Rashi seems to be
inventing. I put on the Gamara does say
that seems to be a point where you can't
bring these birds when they're first
born. So it's like
Mishi Al what does that mean? He
explained it.
He said over the if
the reference to the
is some kind of a expression of a being
absorbed and there's some sort of
physiological change that happens with a
bird that their blood somehow becomes
more absorbed. I don't really understand
them here. How do I know whenever this
stage happens? I want to buy a
God for me never also done. If you pull
out a feather and it bleeds, then it's
old enough to be brought as a carbon.
Okay, we're going to call it here and
we'll pick it up with
the second day of staff which I
certainly hope to post before you so you
can hear it and
and sure is.