Chullin Daf 2

All right, maseches chulin daf beis, shabbos is daf. Baruch Hashem, new maseches, new world. Welcome to all the new lomdim in the chabura, and let's get rolling. So, of course, this maseches is all about shchita, and by way of introduction, is shchita a mitzvah? Well, the Rambam in the minyan mitzvos says yeah, it's a mitzvah lishchot. The Rambam has an interesting sprach, he says it's a mitzvah lishchot vi'achar kach ye'achel, and afterwards you should eat it. As if to say the eating is somehow connected to the shchita. The Ra'avad argues, and the Yad Avraham in Shulchan Aruch, right in the beginning of Yoreh De'ah, he brings the machlokes Rambam Ra'avad, and he tries to explain on behalf of the Rambam that it may be a mitzvah to shchot even though it's optional, that you can have that kind of a mitzvah, that in a situation where you want to eat, you have now a mitzvah to shchot. We're going to discuss whether or not shchita is a mitzvah in the conventional sense, or is it just a mater? We discussed a couple days ago about that Tosfos in Niddah on some of beis that you can only have a musag of a l'chatchila and a b'di'avad by a mitzvah. But by a mater, like l'mashal going into the mikvah, there's no l'chatchila to open your mouth, so you don't have to be someach on the kol ha'rei l'vilah in vilah m'kevis, because the tvilah is a mater, and there- fore there's no musag of l'chatchila and b'di'avad. It may be the same thing by an eiruv. But by shchita, at least on a de'oraisa level, there is no l'chatchila and b'di'avad if you understand the shchita to only be a mater and not a mitzvah. Okay, but now let's get started with the Mishnah. So, the Mishnah Hakol shochtin, everybody can shchot, which sounds a lot like that's a l'chatchila. Ushchitasan ksheira, and their shchita is going to be kosher, which sounds like more like a b'di'avad. This is what the Gemara is going to be busy with. Chutz m'cheireish shoteh v'katan, that everyone can shchot no matter what, except for those people who don't have da'as because of the practical problem shema yakatlu lo es shchitasan, they might mess up. They may actually passel the shchita. But then the Mishnah says Hakol sheshchatu, v'acheirim ro'in osan, as long as somebody else sees them doing it, shchitasan ksheira, which is speaking to the ne'emanus of the person who sees it says it was done okay. The Mishnah is assuming there's an eid echad ne'eman b'isurin. We do know that an eid echad is for sure ne'eman to shailo why, according to Rashi in the beginning of Gittin, and later on in this maseches and in Yevamos, and in Yisha Rabbah, it seems like Rashi saying it's a svara. You have to be able to trust somebody's kosher when you eat in their house, otherwise we wouldn't be able to live. But Tosfos in the beginning of Gittin brings the sefer that a woman who counts her own shiv'a neki'im counts it, and we trust her that she did it. So, there's an eid echad ne'eman b'isurin for the husband to live with his wife. Now, perhaps Niddah might be the din of a davar sheb'eirvah, and therefore that's why it needs its own makor, but it's popularly known as the machlokes Rashi and Tosfos about the makor for eid echad ne'eman b'isurin. Now, the top Tosfos over here brings from the Hilchos Eretz Yisrael, which if you're interested, you can listen to Rebbi Gross in the Pepper Heights daf who discusses about if the name of the sefer was technically Hilchos Eretz Yisrael or that was based on a mistake that the printers made, and really has a different name for the sefer. But al kol panim, the Hilchos Eretz Yisrael that Tosfos brings, which is clearly a rishon, says that women should not shchot even though the our Mishnah says Hakol shochtin, but women shouldn't shchot because nashim da'atan kalus, which no, it's not an insult, it's the metzi'us that women have a different temperament, different reaction to the shchita. Perhaps it's the blood, the Haggahos Maimoniyos says they may faint. But Tosfos himself argues with the Hilchos Eretz Yisrael and about whether women can shchot. And as I say in the brought in Shulchan Aruch, women are allowed to shchot. The Ramah brings this daf from the Hilchos Eretz Yisrael and and says that l'ma'aseh the minhag is that they shouldn't shchot. In the beginning of Yoreh De'ah, when this is discussed, there's an interesting Gilyon Maharsha that talks about when other people shouldn't shchot, like for example, a zaken. Let's say you have the alta shochet in town. What's the mandatory retirement age for a shochet? And he actually gives it a number, 80. When they hit 80 years old, best not to shchot. Also, an ovel who might be to'erid shouldn't shchot. And poskim discuss whether or not that's going to actually depend on a case-by-case basis. If they're really kach, they could, or should we make a general rule about it? Okay. So, the Gemara Hakol shochtin, that sounds like l'chatchila, everybody can l'chatchila shchot. But then the next words, Ushchitasan ksheira, that sounds like a b'di'avad. That only sounds like b'di'avad if they shchot they're okay. So, you have a stira minei u'veayei in the first few words in the Mishnah. So, the Gemara is ultimately going to give us a lot of tirutzim, but before that, first the Gemara wants to clarify the question. Amri Rav Achai b'rei d'Rav Ashi, Hakol l'chatchila hu? Whenever Chazal use the expression of Hakol etc., that always means l'chatchila? That's what our kasha in the Gemara is neming on. Say l'me'atah, Hakol memirin echad anashim v'echad anashim, everybody can do temurah, meaning everybody can affect temurah. You can substitute the kedusha from one animal onto the other. So, Hakol you're telling me that Hakol memirin means that we can have a big temurah party and everybody can go ahead and do this l'chatchila? Avada not. V'chaseiv Lo yachlifenu, v'lo yamir oso, tov b'ra u'ra b'tov. It's an issur in the Torah, don't do temurah. So, when we say Hakol, we aren't obviously saying that l'chatchila you should do it, it's just that it all is that way even b'di'avad. So, the Gemara okay, hasam k'dikti ta'ama, over there the Mishnah in maseches Temurah deals with it and says Lo yish'eh adam u'sh'eh l'omer, not that a person is allowed to do this, ela she'im heimeir mumar, it works if you did it. The Sifrei Devarim and even though it's a lav sheb'eima'aseh we're going to learn about in Temurah, you still get malkus for the issur of temurah. But in a chanami, we're still now assuming that Hakol means everybody can l'chatchila do it. Frecht the Gemara, Ela Hakol ma'arichin v'ne'erachin v'nodrin v'nadirin, the Mishnah in the beginning of maseches Arachin that says that everybody can promise these amounts of money to the Beis Hamikdash. So, Hakol you're telling me that that's something l'chatchila you should do? Av chaseiv, Ki se'achta l'indor lo yeheibacha, v'chaseiv Tovah she'eirali tidor, u'she'tidor lo s'shalem, the better you shouldn't even make the neder l'chatchila pay it. The Tanya we learned on those psukim, Tov mizeh u'mizeh she'ein neder kol leker, divrei Rebbi Meir. Rebbi Yehudah omer, Tov mizeh u'mizeh neder u'mishalem. So, here you have a machlokes whether or not it's better to make the neder at all. V'af ilu Rebbi Yehudah like Omer Ela b'eimar Harei zu, turning over to Maseches Beitzah, Harei Alai L'ai, so both Rebbi Yehudah and Rebbi Meir in Arachin are certainly agreeing that it's best thing not to make Arachin l'chatchila. So, the Hakol ma'arichin can't possibly mean it's all a lashon of l'chatchila, because we know the best thing is not to make nedarim. Tosfos over here and the rishonim in Nedarim all want to know about what happened with Yaakov Avinu. He was neder, and obviously if Yaakov Avinu was neder, it must be that that's a l'chatchila thing to do. So, Tosfos by us at the end of this top Tosfos on beis says that Yaakov Avinu was in an eis tzara, and in an eis tzara, then it's certainly a l'chatchila to go ahead and be neder. And it's even brought that way in Shulchan Aruch in Yoreh De'ah, that even though a person shouldn't make nedarim, but b'sha'as tzara, it's totally mutar to make nedarim. And based on that, the Ritzva in Nedarim daf yud amud alef says that on the Yamim Nora'im, when we make nedarim and promise things, because the Yamim Nora'im are an eis tzara, therefore it's mutar. There are other tirutzim. The Shita Mekubetzes in Nedarim says that the reason why Yaakov Avinu made a neder is because it was created on Matan Torah. It's like the official easy way out. Okay, so Hakol can't possibly mean it's always l'chatchila. But l'ma'aseh, we do find that Hakol sometimes does mean it's l'chatchila. So, now Rav Ashi is going to ask the other way, Hakol lav l'chatchila hu? I'll show you that it does mean l'chatchila. Ela Hakol chayavin b'sukkah, Hakol chayavin b'tzitzis, Hakol lav l'chatchila? Of course it does mean l'chatchila. Everybody is chayav in the mitzvah of sukkah and tzitzis. And for the Gemara, chayavin l'kameina. Avada, when we're talking about chayavin, Hakol chayavin, of course it's going to be l'chatchila. We're just talking about the Hakol when it's not chayavin. Frecht Rav Ashi back, Ela me'atah, what about the Mishnah that says Hakol somechin echad anashim v'echad anashim? Over there it doesn't say chayavin. Hakol lav l'chatchila? Av chaseiv, U'smach yadcha v'ne'ertzah. So, there is a mitzvah, it doesn't say chayavin, and it's certainly l'chatchila. So, Rav Achai back in, Ika Hakol l'chatchila, v'ika Hakol b'di'avad. You'll have both. But Ela Hakol d'hacha, our Hakol shochtin in our Mishnah, may mai d'l'chatchila Why would you just assume that it means l'chatchila? The tiktzu l'chatchila, therefore you have the kasha with the next two words. Maybe dilma b'di'avad hu, maybe the Hakol shochtin was only b'di'avad. V'lo tiktzu l'chatchila, therefore you have no kasha. That was Rav Achai's problem with Rav Ashi's kasha. So, Rav Ashi amri Anash shchitasan ksheira my kasha was really in the fact that the Mishnah said Ushchitasan ksheira, because midikti Ushchitasan ksheira b'di'avad, the very third and fourth words in the Mishnah implies that we're talking about a b'di'avad. Michlal d'Hakol l'chatchila hu. Therefore, the first two words must have meant l'chatchila. The eid echad tzarich b'di'avad l'mali. If they're all talking about l'chatchila, the Mishnah wouldn't have structured it that way. It wouldn't say Hakol shochtin Ushchitasan ksheira. You wouldn't need two psukim about b'di'avad. So, that was really Rav Ashi's kasha, it's the actual lashon minei u'veayei in the Mishnah. There's an interesting little Sha'as Tosfos here where Tosfos D'vei Rabbeinu Asher says that you see from the fact that Rav Ashi says this is what I meant, even though until this point it seemed like it was the sugias of Gemara. So, Tosfos mikkan raya she'Rav Ashi seder haGemara, when that when we know that Rabbeinu Rav Ashi actually put together the Gemara, they weren't just saifrei ra, they actually wrote the Gemara. And Tosfos says this Gemara is actually one of the rayos for that. Okay, but now that we've established the question of the Gemara, now we're going to have the tirutzim of what was the case of the Mishnah and the halacha that it's telling us about Hakol shochtin Ushchitasan ksheira, and we're going to have six machlokes in the Gemara. Today we're only going to do the first one. Omer Rabbah bar Ulla, Hachi katani, this is what the Mishnah means, Hakol shochtin, you are allowed to shchot vi'afilu tamei b'chulin, even a person who is tamei if they're shochting chulin. We know they can't shchot kodshim, but they are allowed to shchot the chulin. So, tamei b'chulin, frecht the Gemara, mai l'meimra? Well, why wouldn't he be able to shchot chulin? So, the Gemara, because chulin shelo al taharas hakodesh, we're talking about where people are trying to maintain that level of tahara because avra chulin shelo al taharas hakodesh k'kodesh dami. We're talking about where you're trying to maintain that status, and therefore I could have heard that if a person is tamei, maybe his shchita won't work if we're going to treat it like the status of tahara for kodshim, to which the Mishnah is telling us it is okay. Now, keitzad hu asa? How does that tamei person do the shchita? Maybe sakkin arucha, because it's got to be a long knife so he doesn't actually accidentally touch the meat. V'shochat ba, k'dei shelo yiga b'vasar. So, as long as that knife is long enough that he's not going to accidentally touch the meat, his shchita will be okay. U'v'kodshim lo yishchat, but a tamei person could never l'chatchila shchot even with a long knife, because shema yiga b'vasar, because he might actually touch the meat. And therefore Chazal are going to asser even with a long knife. Tosfos and the other rishonim are all bothered, how in the world is this tamei guy shochting a kodshim dikka animal with a long knife? He's not allowed to be in the Beis Hamikdash. And Tosfos invents but it's an important question. But this tamei guy, he shouldn't shchot kodshim, but v'im shachat, if he did shchot kodshim, v'omer b'eili shelo nogati, and I know that I didn't touch the meat, then in a chanami, our Mishnah is telling you the chiddush that shchitaso is ksheira. That's going to be the first shot in the Mishnah. But now we got to work this out with the hemshech of the Mishnah, chutz m'cheireish shoteh v'katan, d'afilu chulin g'dei, even by regular chulin that is not al taharas hakodesh, d'di'avad nami lei, those are not going to ever work because we're not confident that the cheireish shoteh v'katan did a kosher shchita. Shema yishuya, shema yidrasu, shema yachlidu. This is getting into the five different psulei shchita. Maybe they did sh'hiya, meaning they paused in the middle of the shchita process, or shema yidrasu, where they pressed downward with the knife, or shema yachlidu, which is lashon of chalada, of burrowing, like a chulda that goes under the dirt, maybe it went underneath one of the pipes. These are the different psulim that after the fact you can't tell if it was done right or wrong. And that's why we don't allow the hair shade of a cotton. The other simanim that we're going to learn about, you can actually inspect and see if they had done it right or wrong. Okay, but now we got to go to the last line of the Mishnah that if they shacted while somebody was observing them, it's going to be kosher. So the cool and should shactu a high, that last line, who's that going on? Eli my hair shade of a cotton. So if you want to say that that oversight is going on the hair shade of a cotton, that can't be because a law kai, of course it's going on that. There's no one else to be talking about. Because if in shactu me boyle, it should just be fearing ice on that last line that if they go ahead and they shact, but the cool and should shactu doesn't seem to make any sense if you're talking about the same subject. So Ella, we must be going back at Tommy the coolin. You're talking about the Tommy guy who's shacting the coolin, meaning back to the beginning of the Mishnah. Over whole amrit like a chillin on me shact. You So you wouldn't have to say this a law that only if it's watched by other people. So if Ella at Tommy the mukdashim, we must be talking about the Tommy person who's actually shacting kodshim in a case of the burly saggy. But that also doesn't work because the burly saggy as long as he says I know I didn't touch it, it's okay. So what's this last line about the cool and should shact shact as long as other people are watching, it'll be okay. And for the Gamara the laser come on to the shiley, the Mishnah is talking about a case where he's not around to ask him. And the chidish of our Mishnah is that if other people saw the shrita and can say that this Tommy guy did not touch the boser, the shrita is still going to be kosher. All right, barcham we made our hascola into coolin. We're going to call it here and pick it up from high Tommy the mukdashim for Sunday's daf.