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Chulin 82
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Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
Today's D is
and we are four lines from the top of
the
today's being.
So we're moving along in peric
dealing with the laws of
espani which all emanate from one in the
tucked away
the says
specifically
the A alaf mentioned one of the more
famousto
of shim and shas. So underrated has some
very positions scattered throughout.
One of them is in the laws of where
holds that
it's
in that we're learning right now.
According to Shim, if a is not a that
would mean that if somebody would check
either or and it would be
it wouldn't be the
it would not be a violation of that law
in the Tory. And the Mishna gave a whole
bunch of examples of where it would
be noa where this of
would practically apply in the world of
the espanite. Now the sadasha of all the
examples that the Mishna gave was all of
the are such that they're not m the and
that really is the definition of a so
any that doesn't do what
says aita has to do is
and in the world of reb not a what were
the examples of the Mishna if somebody
an animals.
If somebody shacks an animal des if
somebody shacks a paras also known as
the paradum. If somebody shacks a hanis
above if somebody shacks all of these
cases are such that the buser even after
the is going to be hence it's therefore
it's mentioned in this Mishna on the
base either way the gumar now is going
to have a very brief discussion about
one of these five cases that the Mishna
mentioned and that is the arufah says
the gumar the ela
Is that true that if somebody would
shack the eggla it would not be au we
know what was supposed to happen with
the eggla was it was supposed to be
beheaded it was supposed to have
done to it we're discussing where a was
done the Mishna is clearly suggesting
that that would not be
it would be but the is questioning that
premise is that in fact we learned that
aishna and this mishna is emperic
which is talk about tucked away in the
very end of so what does have to do with
you have to know the answer to that but
periclah
is in
and over there there's a mishna that
says what would be if the eggla was set
aside so all the raanim are coming out
and they're going to now embark upon
this procession and lo and behold before
they had an opportunity
to behead this egel. They found the
hier. The murderer was found. The case,
the mystery was solved. Says the Mishna
if it happened
before the actual
the egg is just a good oldfashioned
egglaw and you can send it back into the
field, let it graze, give it back to the
past and treat it like any animal. What
do you see from here? You see that an
arufah doesn't become an eggla until you
do the actual.
Where do you see that? Because
it's a regular kosher animal which would
mean that if somebody would
which by definition would had to have
happened before the because once you do
the it's a you can't sh it anymore. At
that point you would think it would be
regular kosher meat. If that's the case,
it would be a
how could you tell me
and it's based on the fact that we know
it's clear from the
only time it becomes is after the where
do you see it because
the name this is such a strong kasha you
have to say you have to take the words
added a Mishna mech. There's no way to
learn this Mishna with the words because
the Mishna seems to be suggesting that
the
was
something that is
even if it had a proper and that is not
the case. If it had a proper it would be
which means would be but ask nice but
could it be that said it right who said
it
the names matter could it be that this
is something that said
something else about that would seem to
negate the probability that he would
have said this what did Rabanai say I
heard aul I heard a certain bound
boundary as it relates to the of the
I can't remember what it is. Meaning I
remember hearing that when it comes to
the specifically the fact that it's not
always
there's some sort of there's a line
that's drawn in the sand where up until
there it's only once it crosses that
that it's going to be but to be honest
with you it happens. I can't remember
said Rabiani what that is stating that
continued and he said
however
suggested the following read
when the eagle descends upon the
that's the arena where this is all going
to happen at that point it becomes
up until then
once it's there it's already what's the
marash of him is now if It's true that
was asked the question that had
reconciled the
says the
with the
says
and
was such a
he literally crossed out one of these
two because he had no it can't be cuz
you know what Rabana should have
answered What he should have said was
being that Rabana himself had a and was
up until it went to the versus after
went to the you know what should have
said both Mishnim
there's no reason to be any one of the
two Mishn
reconcile this it's very pos the says
that's referring to not so much but it's
referring to until it went
until
at that point it's still going to be
okay.
That's what it means
that says talking about after already
descended.
So why would
have to say so what's the cash is not on
the term
that's a plausible albeit
the question is could have been the one
that said it
would have had a much much better answer
would have given that
you're right 100% I have to be honest
with you that I understand there's this
msra floating around here in the Padisa
that it's in the name. We actually had a
different mess that said it on his own.
He didn't say in the name. If that's the
case, okayish didn't hold
in his mind.
When the Mishna says
it means literally
and if that's the case it's always going
to be to before the says not that way
which would suggest that you have no
choice but to say but it's not that said
it it's said
when we were
even on the By the way, if you can
appreciate a little bit what's going on
over here is uh doing his holy and
trying to figure out is this
is it
himself. So raashi is
working this through and he's in the
base or a papy and he's probably telling
him over what's going on over here. We
know it's not
it's probably himself saying I have a
problem with this also raashi you know
why because meal could be would have
said this but it might be learned
as it relates to the
used to bring as part of his ritualistic
purification.
So we know these were but the question
is when did they become
said from the time
it's from the time that they were
purchased I'm reading my time
and we have a what was
that
already
not
he learned it with
from the what's the just like the
becomes
already
so too the
are going to be the same way what's the
bottom line you see from here that also
holds that there's an is on the
before that Rashi speaks out that it was
that when would that be like when would
that come about probably it would be the
had heard that there was a before and
after that's probably what holds as
well. It's before
but the bottom line is is that the has a
before and after. If that's the case,
the same kasha we had that why would say
if he has an easier way to explain this
would be true in as well clearly holds
like how do you know that from his
predicated on the fact that has
which again says must mean
but from the time that it descends upon
but the bottom line is why would give
this terret and say it doesn't make
anyense. sense again it can't be luckish
m because had a much better terrorist it
can't even be al because llish also had
a much better ter so it's interesting
this is like punk dish right
if it was any other in the world be
shame another in the world sounds like a
decent ter to me I mean obviously but it
would work butish
nishana also no
again if that's the case Somebody seemed
to have said
it's not. It's not. Who is it?
You want to know who it is? It's And by
the way, if you're holding
implying that there's an Israel of the
wall, it's
doesn't hold that way. Why? It's not
clear.
It seems like it's probably
because learns
actually
is literally it's always if it's always
well then two things. Number one, if
it's always our Mishna must be and also
by the way
there's no
that's why as relates to
the is going to be us and not because
there's no it's going to be us only
either way we now return very much to
our regular program and that is the
basic
of let's just over two things before we
start the next two number one as it
relates to even though in the Tory it
says
so it sounds a little bit like the is
first and then
the same is true if it's done in the
reverse order
it doesn't matter if it's
or if it's and
second point that's worth and that is
when it comes to this it doesn't matter
if it's one person that shs both or if
it's two people that shack the
So if the same ru and then he's
when he or if
it would also be a problem of
and again this is true even on a level
it's true on the malus level right just
to bring out this point
in either case the second is going to
come with a malus and again If one
person did both or if two people did the
two the one who does the second is in
all cases going to get says the
if there were two people that brought
two animals and it happens to be a
mother and her son is
so they can't both on the same day it's
going to be the second one's going to
get mus so who has the to go first
whoever bought the animal First,
let's say the second guy went and he
preempted the first person he's going to
be
immediately clarifies in the he says
this Mishna is not a
even though we're learn which is very
much this is not a this is a
meaning from the laws of
I don't know whoever shacks first shacks
first second person is going to have a
problem on his hand. He's going to have
to wait until tomorrow.
But from the standpoint of
there's something called and whoever
bought it first, he has that.
Now the Mishn concluded and said
the second person went and he preempted
he's going to be we learned in a
not just the BR is always wordier
sometimes much wordier sometimes even a
little bit wordier it says not
so what does that mean zor means he was
a zor
he's a zor as inus
say from right as in riifu who was as in
Abrau who was Vayashim.
We learned from this read. So this
person even though he was second if he
went first he ends up being Gazarus
because if you're going to be second
there's a possibility you may end up
doing an Ara. It comes out this animal
that you have in your herd you know for
the next 24 hours it's like having it's
a very very bad thing. So there's
actually a certain major of a sashem to
be the zorist to go ahead and to go
first. Additionally, Veniskar, what did
the Bryce mean when it said Niskaristro?
When he has dinner tonight, you have to
wait until tomorrow. I get to eat today
and as a result, I profit it. I end up
benefiting. That's what it means.
Niskar. Now, from the price, it sounds
like, right, just let's meditate on this
for one second. So, you have two people.
One person buys the par, the other
person buys the child. Whoever goes
first,
that's the person that has the first. So
you would think the second person is
supposed to be a good admid and he's
supposed to say okay it's his I'll wait
until tomorrow I I have this potential
of doing an aa I mean that's what we're
in this world for I'll fight the good
fight as it relates to not shacking this
animal I am not going to have meat until
tomorrow it's the nine days anyways what
are you worried about you meet
you'll have another yapik so like it
shouldn't be such a big dealish
Dr. Bryson no for character
to go and muscle your way through and if
you do it your mad
and not just that you're a little hard
to understand struggle with this a
little bit and say that it's only true
if you do this in an up and up way
meaning you reach out to this person who
bought the other animal and you tell him
that you know I would like to go first
meaning if you do this in a civil manner
then you're a Zoris. But if you do it
like a you're not a Zoris you're
have to start learning from you're not
even holding by. Either way
the next part of going to be a lot of
fun in the event that if you like and
hard if somebody goes ahead and he
shacks a parro and afterwards shacked
her two children. So this is a whole
family. There was a par and she has two
sons and this person went the par and
the two sons but first the par and then
the two sons says this person's going to
get malus he's not only going to be
one time malus but he's going to be
he's going to get malus twice what's the
reason because as soon as you there's an
espano on each one of the children so
the first child
This second child you were over
you were over it twice. Hence going to
be twice
says what would be same exact case but
in the reverse order. This person went
and he did the two sons of this
and afterwards he went and heeded the
mother. In that case
he's only going to get malus one time.
What's the reason? Because now he did
one my vera not two myas. Now there are
two for this right. What's the
over here?
So being that the two. So there's a
double
of
but at the end of the day the iser is
one. You did one is and therefore you're
only going to get malus one time.
What would be if somebody went and he
did three? So this is mishan in his when
he talks about the reasons for one of
the reasons he gives
and this person really went all out. He
took out three
grandmother daughter and granddaughter
he's going to get malus
twice meaning he's going to 80 patch.
What's the reason? This is very simple
because he now he was over two.
There was grandmother
and her daughter mother and then there
was another mother and daughter. So
because of the two sets of espan he's
going to be twice. What would be if he
did the grandmother the and the
granddaughter the
and then he went and heeded the
daughter. Now when he shed the daughter
what emerges is that now there's two
sets of espan that was slaughtered
stating that it was one
he's only going to get 40 malus
mayor mayor that you're going to get
malus twice. Now Rashi speaks out that
this says is not only a comment on the
last case in Mishna. We'll recap the
Mishna in a second but it's also a re a
comment on one of the earlier cases of
the Mishna and that is where it was
the Mishna said because it was one on
the mother is saying on that as well
that you're going to be let's do the
recap. There are four cases in the
Mishna.
The first case of the mission is
so what's
so if somebody and then doesn't just
shack one of the children two of the
children he's
twice as a result he's going to get
malus twice he's going to be that's easy
what would be if he was
so first heeded the children and then he
shed the mother so This is the way Rashi
learns
to
because he did one according to twice.
Why you twice? Because when you shed now
the mother the mother was
from two boys because you haded two of
the mother's children. So being that
there are two boys for is for this
mother that's a reason for you to be
twice. What was the next case in the
Mishna
three sets you're going to be because
there's two sets of what would be
however if you the grandmother daughter
and then you went ahead or grandmother
granddaughter and then you went ahead
and you did the daughter so here it's
according to the
why because you did one according to
it's true you did one ma but through
your one you have two sets of and that's
a reason for you to be now as it relates
to the lumbus and emphasis on the word
lumbus of this is between and the
tanakama this is something that the is
very much going to discuss but before we
get to the lumbness of sum the gumar
starts with aasha and it's really a on
the we just learned it's a on the
previous mission on something that we've
mentioned many times throughout the
paric and that is that when we talk
about the benoy even though in the it
says and then but the order is if it's
It's going to be the same thing. And the
Gar asks the cash.
Now, it's interesting. Why did the Gar
asked the cash on this Mishna? And we
could have asked on the previous Mishna
literally five lines ago here too. It
was clear that there's
how do you know that?
So they they're duking it out right now.
Who gets the to first? Clearly implying
that the is would be either way. So why
are we asking it over here? It's posit
because in the previous mission they
just said that there was an isser to go
over here. You see you get malus right?
It's clear from this whole Mishna that
uh you're going to get Malus regardless
if it's
which means that it's included in the P
of the Torah literally on the biblical
levels if that's the case
that
it doesn't say
the answer is in a
sounds like this was only
how do you know if it's the other way
right is the same as how do you know if
When it says
it's coming to be but two things. Okay.
What does that mean? So it's a little
tricky.
If a person would check the par then
if somebody would check the mother
or if somebody would check the child
then deals latter two people would be in
other words if there were three one
person checked the and then somebody
shocked at the child somebody shocked at
the mother first person didn't do
anything wrong but the latter two people
did and that's
what it's coming to teach me so from the
I know that it's not only
but
How could you tell me that doesn't that
word
just tell me the
if it was extra then I would understand
it's coming to be two examples of it
doesn't matter if it's
but is just
it should have
What the T should have said was that
once you
grammatically is extra and it's coming
to teach me
says I'm still not happy because
I would have thought maybe what was
coming to teach me is another that's
axiomatic in par and that doesn't have
to be the same that even if they're two,
you're going to have this. So
is even if there are two meaning cuz had
it said I would have thought
as opposed to
soar says
what the should
says with
they should not be slaughtered. We're
not even looking at it from the
standpoint of the it shouldn't be
slaughtered is
that's what is coming to tell me. So if
all the wanted to tell me was
it said
what's
the is coming to teach me that number
one
and number two it doesn't matter if it's
or if it's so these two ideas again that
permeate the whole paric and that is
that the order is
additionally that um esp
It doesn't matter if it's one person
that does it or if it's two people that
do it. How do I know all this? I know
from the same word in this. There's not
a lot of words to work with, right? The
whole this whole is
but it's the word
said
teaches me these two
exhale. So before we start this next
piece of gimmar which is going to get
into the
we need a a tiny bit of an introduction.
So we're familiar with the concept of
malus very much the topic of this
when does somebody get malus in the
event that a person is
the person was warned thou shalt not do
this because if you do trust me you're
going to regret it then is if he says
bring it on then we bring it on and he
ends up getting mal because that's the
basic
What happens if a person is over
multiple lavend each of which have with
it a a punishment of malus? How many
sets of malus is he going to get? Now in
the event that he was over five
different lavend ate kazer, he ate noa,
he was a nazer and he drank wine. I
don't know if it's a whole uh slew of a
then it's obvious each a that he does
he's going to get an independent set of
mas. What if he did the same m a vera
multiple times? So he was a nuzzer that
drank a reveion and another reveion and
another revely an alcoholic but another
reve. So what would be if that nuzzer
went ahead and did that? Is he going to
get one malus because it's the same a
vera or is he going to get multiple sets
of malis because each reus is its own a
so it's a mission. It's a mission
featured prominently in the third
paragraph of makis. It depends on how
many times he got hastra. If he got one
and he took down a bottle of wine,
doesn't matter how large that bottle of
wine is, the is that he's going to get
one set of malus. If however there were
multiple then for each assuming he went
and drank is after thera he's going to
get an independent
set of malus. So if he does different a
sees each a assuming there was a you're
going to get malus if he did the same a
then the areic to the extent that there
was one asteroid he's going to end up
getting one set of malus if there were
multiple then he's going to get multiple
sets of malus there's one other
important caveat to this and that is
that in the event that this person went
and he did the same a over and over and
over again with one hassra which based
on the rules that we just laid out would
mean he should only get one. But if he
did the a within
he did them with different gofen. So
then the is he would be for each one of
these gofin that he went ahead and he
did an error. So for example if somebody
was bonita and he was bonita again again
again and again. So theoretically, let's
assume this mal is for you know theus
for being bid now which there are but is
so for each gof that this person was now
buo even though it's all the same as and
even though it was all one but the gffin
with which he did the two are going to
be again what's the kids as it relates
to this is for so many but definitely
for
if a person's over
he gets malus.
What if he's over multiple a which are
for each a that he does he is going to
get mal. What if it's the same a so it
depends on the if there was one astra
he's going to get one set of malus. If
there were multiple astros then based on
how many asteris there were that's how
many sets of malus he's going to get. In
the vernacular the isik
if there was one astra same a but it was
with different gofin the gofin are also
and then to the is he's going to get
mult so different a are
gofin are also now this relates to the
carbonus as well
so when does somebody bring a carbon kas
in the event that he doesn't have that
he had he done it he would have
What happens if somebody did multiple
different
all of which require?
So obviously he's going to have to go
ahead and bring a kas for each a that he
did. What if it was the same a so he did
the same a again and again and again
every single time he did a
how many is he going to bring then? So
there it depends on how many there were.
So if it was done with one halama,
halama means uh he was in some state of
amnesia, right? He didn't what was going
on. Hal is another way of saying so to
the extent it was one halama like he
forgot today and he treated it like a
regular weekday. So then it's considered
one hal he's going to end up bringing
one. If however there were multiple
meaning he did the bash and then he said
oops and then he did it again and then
he said oops right he keeps on capping
himself so for every he's going to in
other words are to the what are to malus
right is something that you give to make
someone aware of what he's doing in the
world of malus we have to be amazed you
would have to have in fact says
whole point of so is
Malus where you have to be amazed it is
a suggest you can't be amazed you have
to be it's the antithesis of each other
180 degrees but the bottom line is when
it comes to amazing like malus it's how
many were there how many misides were
there when it comes to the katas it's
how many halas were there how many were
there now just like when it comes to
malist's an idea that the guffik when it
comes to kas you have the same exact
idea that the gofen Aralic. So again s
with regards to malus and sight with
regards to different ausik
the astra in the case of malus and the
hal in the case of kusalik and even
where it's the same a and there was one
astra or one hal there's an idea that
the guffin are going to be as well. What
do we need to over now very quickly from
the Mishna? Just to segue right into the
in the Mishna we had four cases.
Two of them were a point of contention
between the what were the two cases
whereas the argued the first case was
where somebody did two children of a and
then the according to the you're going
to be
why you going to bear
because you did one a and being that you
did one a one you're going to get one
set of malus according to you're going
to be Because in as much as it's true
you did one miser in as much as it's
true you went ahead and you did one of
but there were two boys of Isra this
mother is to because you did this child
and that child and that's enough somehow
to be two malus the other point of
contention in the between and the what
was what would be if somebody checked
the grandmother the granddaughter and
then he went ahead and heeded the
daughter according to the even though
when you the daughter it comes out you
two
of
but at the same time you're only going
to be because you did one mess one
you're going to get one set of malus
according to you're going to be because
even though you did one m but through
the one MA THAT YOU DID what emerges is
you now have a whole family that you
wiped OUT THERE'S TWO SETS OF and that's
enough for you to be says the
turns to like he so often does in Talmud
Bley and he said I'm learning this
mission over here
and I was trying to understand I was
trying to fas a little bit better I was
a little bit uh unsure
how you do in fact how to understand the
of what is trying to say
that he holds
that if somebody would eat two Z of and
he would eat them.
He would be two.
Now if somebody eats two z based on the
introduction that we said earlier would
you be two or one you would be
one that's the general rule but is
trying to understand and he sees in
maybe not that way. Thus thinking out
loud about says is
holds that this whole idea of
one means one maybe doesn't subscribe to
and by the way if it's true when it
comes to
it's going to be true to as well we're
not learning of we're learning of is not
which comes with it's comes with right
that's what's going on so we're just
using
as the
would be that if somebody went ahead and
he did two
he would also be
now if that's the case
really there's no reason for to be
tucked away over here
because his
is not unique to this case. It's a very
global which means somewhere in the
third
right really it should have been
somewhere else.
The reason it's mentioned over here is
it was only to teach me
even though over here there's an element
of what was the element of. So again
we're going to have to pick one of the
two cases just to keep this simple.
Let's pick the second case where said
that
so the
and now you go ahead and the middle
being that that middle that mother right
is
the grandmother and the granddaughter.
So we see it up a little bit as and if
you see it up as that would have been a
reason based on the introduction they
used to be according to the so that's
why we mentioned in this case not to
teach me the biggest
biggest would have been to tell me
of
the reason we're talking about a whole
case a case that has an element of as
we'll see in a second that's
even It is an element of
holds that if somebody would eat
which would mean that as it relates to
it would be the same thing. So why do
over here?
It's based on the fact that it's in
other words learned the mishna said I
understand the sheet of the
it's consistent with the rules and
regulations that govern
why because this person right now when
he did that middle he did one
meant one has to be and if that's the
case one you can only be once you can
tell me
at the end of the day it's one
40 m and one astro. If it's the same a
you're going to only get malus once. So
it's certainly one m with one astro.
You're going to only get and how do you
know it's one? Because it's one mus. So
obviously it's one m. There's no
question in the world that you should
become.
Why two? What happened to the fact that
one
means by definition you could be
drinking wine all day every day. Still
one you're only going to get malus one
time.
says maybe doesn't hold this whole that
whole introduction
world right maybe
doesn't hold of this whole again
universally accepted in that
introduction but maybe not in the world
of says maybe not maybe all of that he
just holds this is different because
this is like and like we mentioned the
introduction
is one of the exceptions to the rule
and now is this really this is not
someone that was boiled to me this
that's true it was one
animal but there's two of the is coming
AND IT'S COMING SO BEING THAT THIS two
of maybe that's viewed as
and if that's the case maybe that's
he undermines the whole introduction he
doesn't hold that you can only be one
malus if there was one astra one astra
draw I don't know every time you're
doing a you're going to be here too
that just took place and it's for that
reason you're going to be
or maybe he's mim to the introduction he
holds that this case of is not your
classic quintessential textbook example
of but I could hear that it's on the
spectrum of auim and maybe that's the
reason according to you're going to be
either way who asked this question asked
it to
said in what's in right
not that this is the first he doesn't
agree with the whole introduction he
holds
which means as relates to
it he says how do you know this now
let's set this up because this is going
to take us all the way until
This is going to take us till the end of
the da. So the premise the unspoken
premise of the is that would not have
said such a big why create a sum that's
a tanu even though he has the
credentials but still like you don't
pull out that badge unless you have to.
So why would we assume that is being on
something that everybody knows is true
unless we was sort of forced into it and
that's the question
must have he from somewhere that uh this
is and really the way the gumar is going
to try to answer this question this very
simple question of is by trying to find
a satan somewhere in chass that seems to
not hold of the introduction that holds
with its counterpart as it relates to
Malus. If we can find such a Tana then
it's plausible to assume that we could
put a name to the face and we could say
who is that and really from here until
the end of the Dar is going to take
three cracks at it. We're gonna try
three times to find a
but we're gonna try to find a that holds
that one
can be several malus. If that's the
case, it's your and it's Mabber that
that anonymous Tana over there is really
over here says the
why would have assumed such a a big
which usually is in probably because he
had a somewhere that holds this way and
is making a nightf who's the great Sai
see the end of Brahis and the end of
Haras is now being Madame
And he's saying it's that is the author
of that
says we learn to
you didn't see double. That's what it
says.
like if somebody plants
is going to get malus says the gar does
like
does mean like and really what the price
is saying is that if someone is a rare
gets I mean if someone say
I don't need a special price to tell me
it gets
right this sounds like sh right what is
why does say the word twice what what's
in this
help me out Ellis says right there's
Ellis and there's
obviously this person was
and
okay so now ready was saying something
THAT MAYBE I WOULDN'T know we're already
holding
but says let's work through the case a
little bit better
is it talking about where the person was
and then
he went he was a second time
And he was warned before each time he
was
this is also it's also
that was drinking wine the entire day.
We always say that's why he was because
he drinks wine the whole day but we
don't have to go back to that. So,
so this person is only going to be one
if they told him
this is the mission that says that but
the bottom line is that if they were to
be twice I don't need this
says the again it's also part of the
elita
that not only was he a rare twice But it
was he must have done them both
literally at the same time
which means that there was one right the
guy's about to be and he warns him and
he goes twice and what does it say
you're going to be two times who is the
holds that one if you go ahead and
you're going to be
two times
is it of our Who's that holds that when
you the mother after the grandmother and
the granddaughter you're only going to
be like can't be because
it of because there's two that are the
of this
say you're part from the second m
over here we there's no goof like kk
certainly now by the way why is it so
posh that there's No mlim you you
planted two sets of kalion. So why
should that not be? So all the say the
reason is only makes sense where each
is. So two human beings or even two
animals would be considered
but two seeds is not considered kufinik
if the goof is a but another
is not enough of a to say that that's
going to go ahead and be able to be. But
either way, it can't be that according
to the rabbon that youn
over here you're going to be like twice.
It must be it's the plug and just like
holds
and he's going to hold
you're going to get twice. What do you
see from that? If that's the case, you
see that what's the it's not because he
learned up.
It's because he holds that YOU COULD BE
TWICE EVEN FOR ONE and that's why he
holds the same thing when it comes to
when it comes to says
why did I learn up in that
is not but it's because he holds
it's I didn't see it in the
I would have taken on the less why make
it but I know it from somewhere else cuz
I know there's a twice climb and it's
where it was climb twice. It's also
where it was one and
twice one must be the such a I know it
could be that's
says it's not
there's no talking and tells there's no
I'll tell you
I'll tell you that the says
is not there is no such you say
don't don't go The never said one
and it's going according to and it's
talking about where the two happened.
It's talking about where it happened.
So what's the the if it happened we said
then it's you're going to be
twice because if it happened it was
asteroid. So right that's the
two asteroids for sure twice
the
there is a little bit of in the world of
it's a
that there are two types of
said
the only time a person is if he plants
and
it's then and only Then if you did it in
one shot that you're going to be for the
laws of
that was the first
that was the second
in the world of
you do a one after another twice was
because in the world of it would have
been one
is one it's not but it's
If you hold is one and is one, well then
is going to end up being two and that's
the
it's not
it's
the bottom line is it's talking about
two it's going has nothing to do with
our and as a result successfully was
rais's first attempt to try to find
eight times that holds that
which would be then a to say that maybe
that and would emerge as a understanding
of our Mishna says the tash
now is going to try to bring another
to have such a and this is from a Mishna
and this is the
so it's discussing the laws of
coming on and one of the
that feature prominently in the peric is
that there's a
if somebody eats the two ganosh so the
gdanosh is in the thigh of the animal so
animal has two thighs hence there's two
gdanoshas if somebody goes and eats the
two gdanoshas is it going to be malus
twice for eating the two gdanoshas or is
it only going to be malcus once now this
is a little nuance because really what
the Gar is going to do now and is going
to actually do it twice in the balance
of the D is really tal having a we don't
learn yet but the has a little bit of a
discussion why Rhuda holds that if you
eat the two gan you're going to be one
you're not going to be too it's an one
side is is because holds
that only one of them is uh well that's
for sure there holds only one of them is
however the gar has a suffic whether
it's knew which one is or rahuda was
misupic which one is kayuda was msupic
which one was so that would explain why
if you eat one you can't get malcus if
you eat two now already you can get
malus how many malcus are you going to
get you're going to get one malus not
two because from the two that you ate
you know you for sure ate the the wrong
one has another knows which one for and
it's the right one, not the left one.
It's the right one. The right thigh, not
the left thigh. And it's for that
reason, if a person goes ahead and eats
two, he's only going to be of one. Not
because of one, but because only one of
them is even knows which one is. It's
the right side that's not the left one.
Either way, says
that in the event that somebody went
ahead, he ate a
link
twice.
He only gets malus once. What's the
case? What is the physical case where
according to the
is talking about
is it talking about where he ate first
the right then the left and not just
that there was a before he ate the right
one there was astra before he ate the
left one which would explain why
according to the
right there were two astros as a result
you're going to get twice a but you did
it twice as a result you're going to be
but if that's the case my time why does
that you're going to get malus
and we know
that
now this question of the
safik is on the side of the come on this
is where you have to know the later a
little bit better it's on the side of
the gum that why you only like garban is
because he's maf he doesn't know if it's
the right one or if it's the left there
is such a side in the SO ON THAT SIDE
that is you shouldn't even get our boy
if it happened again there's a clear
sign in the
is if that's THE CASE YOU WOULDN'T GET
even our bun if it happened
so just play it out person eats the
right you warn him don't eat what you're
about to eat maybe it's not and then you
eat the left one don't eat what now he
did but each WAS AN SO THAT CAN'T be the
case being that sad that the issaf
and you see you get at least one mus it
can't be was two astro because each
astro would have ended up being an so it
has to be by definition that there was
one astro now you know holds this is a
little parenthetical that
digresses for a few lines
he goes case he's talking about where
someone didn't know who his father is he
narrowed it down to two people but he
doesn't know who his father is either
Ruben
your father your father. This person
went ahead and he was
both people. So he got his father
or he cursed one and then he cursed the
other. He hit both of them at the same
time.
At the same time
he was father says
he's going to be potter. Why is he
need to be
because he can't tell the person don't
hit this man he's your father maybe he's
not and then afterwards maybe he's not
so
you can't tell me that the case of the
two
is talking about where was two because
then in Huda's world you could have on
the side of it's a sophra
would have been a
It's the only way to learn this
has to be talking about we the case was
where the person ate the two
and there was one interesting so it was
one and still the says
who is the let's rope it back to
Who that when you the mother after the
grandmother and the granddaughter
one set of
from the second over here like it has to
be
and it must be IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A
name to the face of this it must be
there's no one else that we're aware of
must be that of this is that
you're going to be says
I'll tell you it's talking about this
Mishna where the person ate the two
and it's going according to right
there's nothing with because there is no
such sheet as
I if that's the
What was the issue? The issue was how do
you understand the hold you're going to
be and it sad that it's
the holds
like another.
So in as much as we just brought a a
says
potter. But there's another Tana in the
world of Rabuda who holds that is that
suffic
says in the
so
from the carbon and then the says from
the carbon
says
so as much as the said
immediately Afterwards,
doubled it and followed it with an to me
that
you don't get on the
that's not the reason
the reason there's no is not because
but rather because it's what do you see?
You see the holds that were not for the
fact that no was the you would get malus
on the frag how could you get malus on
the
what's the you should get malus on the
is the only thing you get malus is if
there's a how would you give a ner just
uh try to visualize it you have a person
who brought the carbon pes and there's a
little bit of baser from the pes sitting
around you go over to him and you tell
him you better eat this right now
because if you don't eat this right now
you're gonna flask Right. Well, it's not
true. What do you mean? Look at the look
at look at your watch, right? You still
have a couple hours. So, that is not
going to be a real astra. But I know but
maybe maybe that's
from the fact of the holds that
theoretically hypothetically were not
for the fact that was
you would get on the
must say
the is talking about according to how
even our
It's safic and isra
that's one version in there's another
version
is
in the world of that suffic is really
one last
so this is already a it's talking again
about it's talking about where somebody
ate two gim but the case was where he
ate two gim
from two
from two behemoths. Now it was the same.
It was the same side but it was two
gidds
meaning two sets of malus says
you only get malus one time. Now Rashi
says that in that sug
knew which side it was and it was the
right side because if he doesn't know
then according to you shouldn't get at
all. If you eat the right side and then
the right side from another animal, why
you being if it was you shouldn't get
anything. So the in this is not
consistent with in the previous we know
that the previous the was bringing a
from the real time of the gumar. Here
we're bringing a ride from a price that
the actually introduced when it was but
anyway says the price again in the event
that somebody ate two
according to the
according to it's only what's the case
is talking about
which would explain why
then why would you only get if there
were two that's like the Naz that drink
and of course he's going to get malus
twice. Why
has to be there's no other way to learn.
It's talking about where it all happened
in in one shot and there was one and
that would explain why holds our bum.
But the problem is then why does hold
that it should be part there from a
second
it must be so it has to be this t over
here and that price and must be of the
opinion that one you could still get two
sets of
hence says this saw that belt and that's
why he took on
says no there's no right from here
either strike three
I'll tell you this price is also talking
about where he ate and
of this
everybody holds.
What's the problem?
Or even if it's the same, but it was
two. Of course he should be no it's
talking about
it's talking about
the one of these two didn't have a so
what the for that you have to have some
bikers in the world of gdanosha because
in that there's a says as follows
if somebody would eat a full gdan
but there was
is says no you only if there's a you
want to know what the and the price all
different is not a mak
this is a that's very local it's
regional it's specific it's nuanced very
micro to the world of and it's
that hold or that debated and that
argued whether the
requires like almost all or maybe if
someone eats a
maybe that would be enough for the
person to be
therefore
where one had a one didn't have as long
as the other one is a good who cares
that if only one of them had
that is like a funny roundabout that way
of presenting what they already argued
in a more straightforward way that
you don't have the bottom line is tried
proving that there's a in the world that
undermines and disagrees with this whole
uh premise with the introduction that we
gave to the daf at the end of the day
it's a is not happy with it but those
that learn every day shouldn't be
stunned that
and that wasn't so happy about it but
the bottom line is exhale. So as relates
to raid and you know really
uh a raid bite
as it pertains to the sug.
So the Mishna in the beginning of the
paric after it introduced the basic idea
of
he said
how does play itself out and the Mishna
went and gave 12 different scenarios
juggling cases
where the animals were kachen where
theas happened
meaning in the azara or outside of the
azara and what would be in each one of
these cases. The first of the 12 cases
was the most obvious and the simplest
said
in the event that both of these animals
were and both took place
both of these animals are going to be
meaning you be allowed to eat the meat
of these animals.
and as it relates to the second one you
can be this is the classic case of as it
relates to very very straightforward
this is not it's not
it's in of somebody goes and he shacks
two animals that are
you want to eat the meat of the animal
you're allowed to eat the meat of the
animal however the second person who did
the he's going to get malus for what it
is that he did the dbra mascul
says
being that in the course of the Mishna
the Mishna is going to mention in the
other 11 cases times we are if you an
animal in a scenario of the meat of the
animal is going to be possible. So it's
for that reason we mentioned in the
first in other words was bothered. Why
does the mission say
why would you think they're not? What
would the to say it's not? Of course,
the meat is kosher. It's true. The
second person was HE WAS
BUT WHY would you think that the meat
should be suddenly
there's no reason in the world that you
would think it? There is no at all to
even suggest something like this. If
that's the case, why did the name? The
reason the name is because the Mishna is
going to mention a lot of cases where
the meat is going to be ple
there's be a lot of cases where there's
going to be so we're going to mention
cases where the meat is going to be ple.
So we mention over here we state the
obvious that this meat is going to be
which is really to the but
says I respectfully disagree. The reason
the Mishna said
I could have had
that maybe the second one should be
possible
brings from
that says
and we learn from there that anything
that was any that came about
if that's the
It's partning
that for whatever reason that of doesn't
apply and therefore the meat is going to
be
that he said
there's no it's all mentioned I disagree
there is a
not going to be now even according to
this there's something that's mention
because the mission says so the second
one is that you don't say but once I
needed to say that the second one is so
I'm going to say only the shi is kosher
that's not true the first one's also so
it's for that reason the went ahead and
the said
so there's a that it says on the bot is
it was written by one of the and he
brings printed
of over here
that he heard from his a different to
explain what the is why you would have
thought that if somebody
maybe it shouldn't be okay and it's
based on a well-known in the first
is
Like the
this is a global which comes up in the
world of raid literally
anytime the says you're not let it do
something if you go ahead and you do it
anyways
so said that are both mooching what's
the
if somebody
it's part THAT IT'S
BECAUSE THE SECOND person that went
ahead and he was over.
So I would have thought that
would say is not a
that it's going to be. Now there's a a
longer version of this which ties into
that we spoke about in the beginning of
the
why don't you sayfulness
it's a very light of ra that we spoke
about in this already iron chunk but the
bottom line is a second to explain why
it is that you would think that maybe if
someone's
based on the
in other words
the whole thing was mentioned
and are both no it's not so
in the of the second animal that you
would have thought maybe the boss is
going to be pos said based on
it's a lab
said based on
of
stating that take a look at the Ram and
the Rambam is right in the beginning of
pericute days of that's where the Ram
discusses the laws of
if somebody
is going to be
it's only the second person that gets
The tour in
brings
and the in on the tour says that from
the way the Rambam presented the it
sounds a little bit like the Rambam held
that there's aesh in the fact that if
someone checks
the M or the Ber is going to
Now says the I know Rashi already
discussed this but from the
I think I see a little bit more because
the Rambam says
the Ram doesn't say the
Ram says
it sounds like all of the
and it sounds a little bit says the Bach
that the Rambam holds that there's some
over here that I need to tell you that
not only is the boss of the shi going to
be but the boss of the is also going to
be and says to me this is a good in
other words we spoke out that was in the
noish at all in the fact that if
somebody
unless there was
that why would you think it's even
though the s name was only mentioned
even that went ahead and said no there's
a
is that is of but that there should be
that the bus of the
and by the way even of
that's all in THE SHI WHERE YOU ARE BUT
THE which was there's no in the world
that that should somehow be that I would
need to TELL YOU IT'S THE SAW IN THE
very subtle that the ra SAYS
HE DIDN'T SAY the he said THE BOSS
WHICH SOUNDS LIKE all the buses and the
wonders out loud is the ra trying to
tell me that there's a saying the inside
the
says it's that this is not a and the is
probably just quoting the
and the tour is quoting the quoting
everybody but the tour is quoting the ra
quoting so the bottom line is it could
be there isn't such a dick to be had and
whatever the mission is that's going to
be the rabbis the bach is a little
sounds like
in the
of how the Ram should have presented
this he felt that there was a little bit
of a dick here and if that's the case
it's definitely something worth
exploring a little bit is there to say
that I could have had a in the world of
not only the buser of the second animal
that I shed should be motor but maybe
there's even aish that the buser of the
first one is motor as
I saw they say from school that's from a
summer garbus and this is in pericid has
a whole perk on uh
the lumbus of understanding
and as he speaks out there it's that
once you come to to understanding a
little bit of the lumbness how works it
would be a little bit of a shot in the
bik in the ram And really a completely
new albeit simple in this of
as it relates to the love of
what is the
using that word very very uh
specifically
of the is the of the is that when you
mother now the says the child becomes a
or when you check the child. Now the
mother becomes the
as if to say that when a person is
the ising the child after you the ising
the after you the child
of the
don't the mother and the child. It just
so happens that if you only shack the
mother, then it's not in play yet to
have the isser. Or if you did shack the
mother, then it's not in play yet to say
don't sh this because uh I'm allowed to
sh this. It's only once I check this
that I'm not allowed to sh that. But the
point is that when somebody goes ahead
and checks
the he did was not just that HE IS THAT
HE did was that he
what's the is
or the IS
it plays itself out the same way it's
only it plays itself out that after
you're not let and by the way only the
person that shaks is going to get malus
we're not debating that but the question
is what is the
What's the what's the gather of the
iser? Pick your cliche. Pick your
cinema. What is the IS
the iso?
The truth is from the
it sounds a little bit like the iso.
It doesn't say don't after you the
proverbial
is
which sounds like is included part and
parcel of the of the in as much as is
included and is part and parcel of the
but this is a very basic
in the world of is the not the after or
is the not
So
said I'll bring you
that
is not just
after but that the is not
just mention a few in the that needed a
to teach me that the is true if the same
person
and if one person shed and another
person.
Why would you think that the only time
there's an
is now? But if you
what's
that once was now becomes so nobody
should be allowed to if you go into the
time of the of the
and the again there's no what should be
the whether one person both or if two
people but if you're going to tell me
that the of the
one person's not let her go ahead and
that you're not allowed to go ahead and
check then to say that the only time
this is going to be true IS IF I ONE
PERSON did the whole because if need of
so it's been that you need one person to
go ahead and of but if two people are
going to there's going to be no way in
the world there's going to be no way in
the world to go ahead and make us from
the fact that we need a limu to tell me
that the only that there's an iso even
if one person and the other person
that's a
very
that is
therefore you would have thought that
one person has to do the complete is but
one person with and the other person
with each person is doing a
half plus a half in this world is not
going to bear to a
second
or a second. There's a big discussion in
the if somebody goes and he
is he going to be
or not the
brings from we spoke a lot about last
week
of that's where the
but says
why because
If you're gonna tell me that it's or
that there's no problem when happens so
why even have to
and he's coming to be you don't have to
worry about
the mother that is the so it's one
that as it relates it's true whether it
happened or it happened
if you're going to tell me that
of is
and meaning is part and parcel of the is
just like is so it makes sense if I did
if I did but if is really not in the iso
AFTER IF I
NEVER BECAME
when did it become
it only becomes after I
now The truth is the truth is this is
really to in a in a of
right this would be a good example of
that because I wouldn't be able to sh
one after the other. So if that's the
case
there's a big on this it's not that you
always say
so
from the fact that you see the grace
from the
is that if you're going to go ahead and
you're going to you're going to
it would be included it's probably
because the iso
it's not that It's only the becomes and
that the becomes
for that reason
it was
there's another
that bring and that's from today's
the whole second half of the d the fun
part of today's daf discuss and the
mishna in the mishna which rashi says is
really
but we'll mention the second mention of
in the mishna in the event that somebody
went ahead and checked a grandmother and
then a granddaughter and then afterwards
he went ahead and checked the mother. So
according to you only like according to
you're going to be like
a very in fact it's
that of
it's because
so that although in the case of the
there was only one but at the same time
it's no different than one
of where the is that you're going to
They all ask
they all ask the same and that is I
don't understand
in the case where a person a goes to the
core of understanding a little bit of
the lumbness of today's If somebody eats
two zim or if somebody would eat two zim
and it was done with one he did two a he
did two a he ate this kazayas he ate
that kaz there were two of a that he did
being that there's two of a that he did
this mock to say you should get malus
twice the was one GOOD
BUT THE WHAT ARE THE TWO I ate
ate that in the case of IN'S CASE YOU
ONE HOW YOU TWICE for one there's one of
that you did you shed one THERE'S TWO
THAT'S like very
comes with this massive
Over
there you ate two over here. All you did
was youeded one animal
is that's true. If the of the
is it's just the second animal that you
shed. SO IF THAT IS WHAT THE OF THE is
Ied one animal one animal I hear it's a
good order. How can I be two malus? One
animal I do with two. Who cares? I still
shed one animal. But this if the way
works is that when I
was and when I also did an A THAT'S PART
AND PARCEL of the then it's because WHEN
I GO AHEAD AND I the mother comes out
I'M DOING TWO SETS OF a now now the baba
and the mother was an aa and now with
gla that the mother and the ano was an
aa
where it's the two
is in the glory of then now the
grandmother and the granddaughter were
also my if however nothing is being in
the grandmother and the granddaughter
then not included in the of the so all I
did was oneita on the mother oneita on
the mother is less than
OVER THERE AT LEAST I OVER HERE I DIDN'T
EVEN NEED to and the truth is just from
the call it right had throughout the is
an element of says it's two of but now
the is much sher it's not just two oh
this this mother is
of the grandmother and of the
granddaughter when you this mother now
there's a of grandmother mother and
there's aer of mother and granddaughter
it's actually
it's not just two that's what learns
it's more than twoas It's actually but
the bottom line is this of
that is not only in the but it's also in
the this is the of understanding the a
lot better
over here in today's stop
another
right here in the
he asks he asks that why is it Mishna
said that if somebody would go ahead And
somebody would check
the grandmother and then the
granddaughter and then he would check
the mother. So what's the is that
according to you're only going to be but
according to you're going to be
why don't we say
on the second
bomb when you did the grandmother first
the daughter became there's an
now you're going to go ahead you're
going to the granddaughter so what do
you want that the other should be
because
of
it's
right here in the with this
in the back. So there's a whole list of
uh
so he brings a ter that he heard from
the sonasha
asks this and the of the famous
his son wrote a on his father and who
was
saying and he said he said if you're
going to tell me that the way works is
the is only on the benoy. That's what
the T is telling you don't do. If you
now don't go ahead and the is the so
then it's a murder
became when you say how's it becoming
again when you went ahead and you but if
the
don't go ahead and
the was not after you WHEN YOU WOKE UP
IN THE MORNING THERE WAS an iss
Don't sh this and don't sh that. THERE
WAS NO ONE that was before the other.
If the is only NOT THE THAT IS FIRST
after but the is on and on when's that
WHEN YOU HAVE AN
SECOND when this be was little at that
POINT IT WAS
DOESN'T pass now to go ahead and to say
the bottom line is the bottom line is if
you go through and this this
from
he brings
This is all from
where they all
and that is that the like it's not that
after now it's no is
and really the is on in as much as it is
now in the world of how the the how the
malus plays itself out it's only the
second one that gets malus like the ram
says
When it comes to the malus, it's only
the that's going to get malus. But as it
relates to the gufa is as it relates to
the goof is the is true for the
is true for the as well. But the bottom
line is
the Mishna said that if somebody
says it's
the rest of where you're going to have a
bunch of cases where there's going to be
so that's why we mentioned over says no
you don't have to say that there's a is
that the is why would you have thought
the shen is possible it's because you
would have thought you would have
thought that maybe
so that you're not going to have an is
The first one that's only mentioned but
we mentioned but we mentioned that the
wasma
the
what's the
might be what's
that we mentioned earlier where said
that you could say of why
Even
though
still is it's going to be good. And if
you're going to neon and lundus that the
is of after you the sheni is not only on
the shi it's on the also the sheni is
the only one that's but as it relates to
the
sheni then this mim to say that if you
would hold
once you even the should beer BECAUSE IS
TRUE FOR ANYTHING THAT'S included in the
and the is true for the and it's true
for the shi as well.
Not only the shi is the kasher, they're
all kasher. Why would you have thought
the both? Because I would have thought
and that's what the rama was coming to
say
even though
are included in the
said.
So both of them were in violation. Now
all the are only on the sh because he
can't punish the guy when that way DID
THE WAS CAN'T GET PUNISHED FOR THE
was part of this
and if that's the case I would have
thought maybe it should be
that for whatever reason we don't say
based on
and taking the one that seems to be the
and the as relates to the
in the O say vaspanite.