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Chulin 38
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Today's stuff is cooling the flame
and we are 11 lines from the bottom of
the flame and Zion on the base hey hey
dummy miss you guys. Today's stuff is
being learned as a referral shame for
Miriam milk of Rita and Schliemann
Khaila.
So we're in the middle of a social.
The Sugya began at the beginning of
yesterday's stuff and it will but as a
session conclude at the end of today's
stuff. So this is a two dollars Sugya.
Regarding a
as a miss you guys. So we know that an
Availa one is not allowed to eat. A
treif one is not allowed to eat. What
about a miss you guys? A miss you guys
is an animal that's at the end of its
life. It's alive hence it's not an
Availa. It doesn't have one of the same
money treif hence it's not a treif.
But at the same time it's
an animal that clearly does not have a
long time to live.
The mission says that even though you
could have thought that maybe it's not
okay for one to check the miss you guys
and eat it. The is
this a miss you guys is going to be
cautious stating that the only time it's
okay to check the miss you guys and then
eat from its meat is if it shows a sign
of life during the course of the
Schliemann. Meaning we're a little bit
concerned that maybe at the onset of the
Schliemann
the animal died and it wasn't able to
survive the Schliemann. Again an animal
is not supposed to survive the
Schliemann but it wasn't able to survive
the part of the Schliemann that it is
supposed to survive so that we could say
that it was killed I'll you get the
Schliemann
of the right Schliemann. Now what
exactly is the definition of Schliemann
so that was three way mark like it's in
the mission. The first Schliemann was
Schliemann been Schliemann
which by the way is a big Schliemann
amongst the Schliemann is the Schliemann
and Schliemann been Schliemann or is the
Schliemann
Schliemann and Schliemann are actually
gores not the way we have it in the
Mishnah. They're gores Rabban Gamliel,
not Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel. But
regardless, the first sheet of the
Mishnah was that if it jerks its hand
and its foot, if it's mefarges its yad
v'regel, that would be a sign of life.
Rabbi Eliezer, we saw in the Mishnah was
also the sheet of Rabban Shimon said
that if it was zin kodam, if it coughed
up blood, that would be a sign that it
was alive. And finally, the sheet of the
Chachamim was it's totally impure. Plus,
but it doesn't have to be mefarges yad
v'regel, oy yad oy regel, that in itself
would be okay. Or if it wagged its tail,
that would also be a sign of life. We
spoke out Tosfos that says that even
though the loshon of Mishnah had
shocheches as a misukenes, sounds like
it's only a b'dieved, truth is you could
do it l'chatchila. You just have to make
sure that mark it as a slave, mark it as
a slave, or mark it as a slave, it's
going to have a sign of life. But as
long as it survives the shchita, then
the halacha is hashoicheches as a
misukenes is not only something that's
b'dieved, it's something that's
l'chatchila as well. That was the
Mishnah. The first part of the Sugya
discussed how is it that we know that a
shocheches as a misukenes is something
that's okay. Now, the Gemara's immediate
reaction to this whole discussion was
how do you know that a shocheches as a
misukenes is shariya? U'mi mai teisa gad
ayten da sira? So, the Gemara said,
"I'll tell you why. Because the pasuk
says zois achaya asher toichlu, and we
learn from there chaya achol b'she'einah
chaya lo yisochal. That will be a mess
we darshan them with a treifa. But the
truth is, meichit teisa aser with a
treifa, it should be with a anything
that doesn't have the ability to live. A
misukenes doesn't have the ability to
live. It's a quote-unquote einah chaya.
And based on that pasuk, you would have
thought it's assur. And if that's the
case, how do you know it's mutar? The
Gemara, in the course of the daf, made
four suggestions, three of which stood.
The first one was that from the fact
that the Torah says a treifa is assur,
zois achaya asher to misukenes that's
b'chlall misaya mona in the treifa is
really mutar. The second Makor was from
a possuk that discusses the Halacha of
an Avelah and the Halacha of a trayfa.
And the third Makor was we learn it from
a possuk in Yichazkel, which by the way,
we know throughout Shas there are many,
many Halachas that are learned from
psukim in Yichazkel. Ad ke de kach, one
of the
slangs in the Talmud Bavli is, "This
Halacha ad de osi Yichazkel min Agmira."
If this is something that's learned from
Yichazkel, how do we know before
Yichazkel? The Gemara always says that
it was a Halacha Gemira, it was Halacha
le Moshe mi Sinai. That osi Yichazkel
min Agmira. But either way, chalk this
up as another Halacha that's learned
from the world and from the novi
Yichazkel. Either way, today we are
going to continue to discuss this
[snorts]
very light or be a critical topic within
the world of Shchita Shchulin, part two
of the Sugya of a Shchita es ha Mr.
Kennis. So, the Halacha Gemara again 11
lines from the bottom of daf lamed zayin
amud bais. "Eich ba'i Mr. Kennis?" What
is the definition of Mr. Kennis? So,
loosely translated, a Mr. Kennis is an
animal that's ot ot. We saw the end of
yesterday's daf, the Shochet was
screaming, "Koish! Koish! Shchach!
Shchach!" But the Gemara wants to know a
more technical definition of a Mr.
Kennis. Am Rabbi Yehuda bar Rav, "Shmuel
Yehuda said in the name of his great
Rabbi Rav, "Koish mami de noise of inui
medes." If this animal is so weak that
if you would
put it on its four feet, it would not be
able to stand, meaning it would come
falling down. That's a sign that it's a
Mr. Kennis. That's when this Halacha
applies. Which Halacha? It's mutar
lechatchila, but only if it's mefarches.
Only if it shows some sort of life
during the course of the Shchita. Rav
Chinena bar Shlamiya mishmei de Rav
Amram, Rav Chinena bar Shlamiya, who was
also a talmid of Rav, so he was mosif.
He said, "I heard from the Rabbi Rav,
"Afilu achilas bekayos." He's not coming
to argue, Rashi says, he's coming to
add. And that is that if this animal is
mami de noise of inui medes,
>> [snorts]
>> even if it has the coyote to eat little
twigs
that that's still a sign that it's a
missile Kenneth and Allah of a shake a
missile Kenneth would apply Romeo by
and here to Russia says he's not coming
to argue he's coming to be moist if I
feel I
don't rub said I feel I because he
didn't mean only because as opposed to
even if it has even a bigger appetite
and its teeth apparently are the teeth
of a young fresh ox it doesn't matter at
the end of the day if it's my mom
the
it doesn't matter how it is appetite is
and
mouth is operating at the same time it's
going to have a lot of it missile
Kenneth says the
everything that we just said is the way
this was presented in
what we just say they have
to come in
kosher
but
he said over the name of he was moist if
even if it eats because and
was moist if even more than that even if
it eats
but he said
a different version of this very similar
in fact it's all similar you have to do
a double take to see what the difference
is they tell me missile Kenneth and they
said that what's a missile Kenneth
I have you said kosher also they know
same definition that I feel like because
even if it eats because and
I
have you
said I feel like
because not only if it eats because
these little twigs but even if it eats
because it eats beans still it's going
to be considered missile Kenneth if it
doesn't have the ability to stand on its
feet what's the difference between the
way they had it in the way they had it
in
so in there were three names have you
done said the
of missile Kenneth
have you got
added I feel like because and then
added on top of that even if it eats
because
in they
had a little differently in they said
that
gave the definition of missile Kenneth
and he added I feel like because and
was the one that added
I feel like
small met the middle of wrath. You know,
a lot of the time of wrath after wrath
passed away was much older than small.
So after wrath passed away went to learn
in the middle of small but
the wrath small meets the time of wrath
among who he told them my owner rather
miss you can have a
something you can tell me that wrath
said in the world of miss you can I'm
going to listen they told them
I'll tell you what wrath said that as it
relates to a miss you can
we are the is that if it showed life and
vitality through the course of the the
it's going to be okay even if you want
What is a definition of life? So wrath
gave his definition go you if it makes
the sound and an animal makes so if it's
a cow it moves or if it's some other
animal it does whatever those animals do
on the farm they tell
or if it goes to the bathroom the
or if it
wagged its ear raise a
these are all examples of
and if it's
then the is that it's a sign of life So
when small heard what the time of wrath
said in the name of wrath what is the
definition of life as it relates to a
miss you can he told them three
above you say
so
she says was
a washing of
that small would refer to his friend
wrath as above is like saying wrath like
saying
and small had a lot of respect for wrath
and that's why he called him wrath is
just the opposite to say that the same
as him of wrath was above and just
because small was a
of wrath so he felt close to him he
called him by his name he didn't have to
refer to him as wrath but regardless he
said that does wrath need that it should
even wag its ear meaning that's like a
very
intense level of Helios, meaning it
sounds like according to Rav, the bar is
set very, very high in terms of what the
definition of pirchus is. Okay. What did
Shmuel hold? Shmuel
said, "Kosha einai d'varim." So, we have
the girsa Sh'chamisa, but if you look at
the Shita of the G'mara B'raisa, they
change it to Sh'chamisa. That "Kosha
einai d'varim Sh'chamisa eisa"
anything that a animal doesn't do when
it dies, meaning any movement that's not
a sign of death is
by process of elimination going to be
considered a sign of life. So, according
to Rav, a sign of life means something
proactive, something
aggressive. It's goya, it's a t'luyah
kishkush of azna, which seems like it's
the biggest of the three.
>> [snorts]
>> According to Shmuel, any movement,
unless it's a movement that's natural
for an animal to do when it dies, then
obviously it would be a sign of death,
not a sign of life. But as long as it's
not that, that would be okay. Says the
G'mara, "Manin d'varim Sh'chamisa eisa."
In the world of Shmuel, so what is an
example of something Sh'chamisa eisa?
So, so we know that that is eliminated
as being a sign of life, but everything
else would be considered a sign of life.
Am Rav Anan, Rav Anan said, "B'dei d'dei
m'farshalei m'nanei Amshul." I heard it
from Shmuel. This is what he said,
"Hoisi ad d'kufah in the event that the
hand of the animal was bent, u'pash
d'sa, and then it spread its hand out,
d'var Sh'chamisa eisa." That's d'var
Sh'chamisa eisa, that will not be
considered a sign of life. P'shuta, if
however it was uh out stretched, d'kaf
u'far, and then it bent its hand, d'var
Sh'chamisa eisa, that's something that
the meis doesn't do, and that would be
considered a a sign of life. So,
according to Rav, it's goya, it's a
t'luyah, kishkush of azna. According to
Shmuel, as long as it's not something
that uh a meis does, that would be a
sign of life. G'mara said, "What is an
example of something that a meis does?"
So, I know what's not something that a
meis does, so I know what's considered a
pirchus, what's a sign of life. So, Rav
Anan said, Shmuel explained it to me.
Great to G'mara, "Ma kamash lan?"
It sounds a little bit like, you know,
Shmuel had to explain what's a sign of
life, what's not a sign of life. Rav
Anan says, "I heard it directly from
Shmuel." Is it in the first emission?
Meaning it's in the first emission
what's considered a double emission
also. Turning the mission the animal
that the other way
the animal that that was pushed the
other way
so that it's possible
that's a sign of death that's something
that the animal naturally does as it
dies. It's not a sign of life. And what
do you see from here?
That it's only if it's pushed the other
but let's say if I care let's say the
animal was hand was stretched out and
then it pulled it back in it sounds like
that would be kosher. Meaning the
mission told me what is not considered a
sign of life. One thing and one thing
only which is exactly what Shmuel said.
So I'm going to tell him and then Shmuel
explained it to me why we even having
this conversation. All I need Shmuel to
say is is that as long as it's not a
double emission also I know that it's
considered a sign of life. What that is
plus the first emission. And really the
mission said both things that Shmuel
said. Shmuel said that if it stretches
his hand out it's a sign of death. If it
brings its hand in it's not a sign of
death. Both things are in the mission.
Stretches his hand out is explicit in
the mission. Bringing his hand back in
is implicit in the mission. But both of
those things are technically in the
mission. So the mission says almost
true. If you must listen that all I had
them was the mission how about me now I
would have thought
Dafka the Kaifa who pasta but the Kaifa.
The only time it's considered a sign of
life is if the hand was bent he
stretched his hand out and then he
brought it back in. So you were on my
way and maybe right? You went the full
circle you did a round trip that's when
it's considered a sign of life. I will
put you to the coffee for so long. But
let's say the hand was stretched and he
brought it back in maybe not. Now the
mission only said if the hand was
bent and then he stretched it out it's
not a sign of life. But you'd be
able to think that what's the difference
if you do it this way you do it that
way. When the mission said that if you
stretch it out it's not a sign of life
it's love for you cuz
you only went one way and you have to do
a round trip. It's the one way trip that
bothers me. The could have been Malcolm
to say that Kamasu and that's Ravana and
tell him that he did me fish me native
small and the mission. He explained it
to me a little bit better. I mean I know
the mission addresses it but the mission
is a little bit sauce on and I needed
the matter small to explain it to me and
essentially was explaining his own
position but the bottom line is we have
here my Rav and small. What did the
definition of life is as it relates to
our mission of God. According to Rav
it's way more than it is according to
small. According to Rav it's a tila ray,
it's kishkish of a bazna. According to
small any movement as long as it's not
what? As long as it's not something that
a mesa
and what is the mesa do? We have it in
the mission and we have
active small himself told it to Rav
and that is as long as that's not a
situation where the animal took its hand
and just jerked it outwards at the time
of the shrita. Anything other than that
would qualify as a sign of life and
you'd be allowed to eat this animal.
It's a kasha on Rav mesa Rav. Rav and
Rav
and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav
and Rav
and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav
and Rav
and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav
and Rav and Rav and Rav and Rav all
sounds that the animal makes are all the
same. So, if it has a thick
voice when it makes his moo sound, then
it's going to be considered a sign of
life. If it's amikolo, if it has a
voice at that point, then it won't be.
It means where it was metal ray, but it
was very close to where it was. Matresis
means where it shoots out the
That is considered already a much more
of a sign of life. And if it's matresis,
that's what Rav was referring to
when he said it
ray.
So, this really concludes the first part
of the daf. Before we go further,
So, we have a machlokes is Rav and
Shmuel. What's the definition of life as
it relates to the misokanes, right? If
it shows life during the shrita, that
means it survived the shrita. The shrita
killed it. It's good. It's not, not. He
hidami.
What is an example of life? Machlokes is
Rav and Shmuel, right? Throughout shas,
you have a machlokes is Rav and Shmuel.
Here too, you have a machlokes is Rav
and Shmuel. Rav says goya vetila ray
vikishkisha ba'azna. Now, he clarified a
little bit. Goya means avikolo. Vetila
ray means matresis. Vikishkisha ba'azna,
these things are
there.
According to Shmuel, now anything that
it does, as long as it's not this one
thing that we know an animal naturally
and instinctively does as it's dying,
anything else is going to be a sign of
life. Tosfos, so top Tosfos on the yomi,
he doesn't ask it as a kasha, and he
doesn't explain it with a teretz, but he
addresses the obvious question. We had a
mishna. In the mishna, there were three
pshetim amongst the tana'im what the
definition of life is. Rav Shimon
Gamaliel, or Rabban Gamaliel, pick your
gears so, said that it's achas defarchas
bi'adu beregel. Rav Eliezer ben Azariah
also the shita of Rav Shimon said
Zinka." And then finally we had the
sheet of the that said if it's the
or the
or it wags its tail. So we have three
sheets of the
why are Shmuel arguing in a
that debated? Right? Just
speaking example. We know there's a Rav
and Shmuel.
If that was
Rabbi
it would make sense. It should be Rav
and Shmuel. Here's another one. Here's a
Rav and Shmuel.
It was a
or a pigeon. Right? So if that was
already a
so you wouldn't have a
between Rav and Shmuel. Rav and Shmuel
that's what they argue with what's
somewhere in a or a
This is a
Why they arguing? So says that it's
that they weren't being Rav and Shmuel
and really the Rav and Shmuel is which
sheet in the that we like. And Rav who
was
and Rav said
that if it's
Rav and
even means
and even Rav and Rav says he's going
like the most of the three sheets of the
and who's the most of the three sheets
of the first sheet sheets of the
has to be
and Rav. So Rav is going like the first
sheet of the sheet of the
whereas Shmuel that said that no as long
as it does anything that's going to be
okay. That's the third sheet of the Rav.
It's the sheet of the
that says if it moves its
or it's
or it's all those things would be fine.
The bottom line is
Rav and Shmuel is not this new Rav and
Shmuel. It's really a
which one of the sheets of the do we
like.
Either way on that note we now turn our
attention to the next part of the which
is going to take us almost until the
very very end of the day.
So high level what's about to happen now
is the is going to discuss. So as it
relates to
if it shows life during the shita,
kosher. If it doesn't show life during
the shita, it's not going to be kosher.
At what point of the shita would it have
to show life?
Beginning of the shita?
The middle of the shita?
The end of the shita, right? I mean, I
guess those are the three possibilities.
Now, you would think that for sure the
best case scenario would be the end
because the whole idea is to make sure
it survives the shita. So, if it shows
life at the beginning of the shita, but
it didn't show life but it didn't
survive the shita,
then how do I know it actually survived
the shita? So, the best you can get is
that if it showed life the shita, that
would be great. Next best would be the
end so because you know for sure it
survived the shita, it's still knocking
during the middle. I was going to say
kicking, but that's a bad pun. It's
still kicking in the middle of the
shita. So, that gives you a better
chance of it knowing that it's alive at
the end of the shita. And of course, the
worst case scenario or the least you
would have is if it showed life the
shita. Bottom line is is it the
the end so the
spoiler alert, it's three shitas amongst
the shita holds as we'll see the end so
the shita holds the shita holds the
shita.
How
How they all come about in their
respective shitas, that's something that
we're going to see now as we go through
the shita.
The shita said the
shita said
As it relates to the shita
that the said the shita said that the
shita said that the shita said the shita
said the shita said the shita said the
shita said the shita said the shita said
the shita said the shita said the shita
said the shita said the shita said the
shita said the shita said the shita said
the shita said the shita said the shita
said the shita said the shita said the
shita said the shita said the shita said
the shita said the shita said the shita
said the shita said the shita said the
shita said the shita said the shita said
the shita said the shita said the shita
said the shita said the shita said the
shita said the shita said the shita said
the shita said the shita said the shita
said the shita said the shita said the
shita said the shita said the shita soif
it's just not forget the shita. But
really it's all about the answer
hashita. Meaning you could have thought
you could have thought that you need
that shita is enough.
Come ash below the soif but not that it
has to be mamesh by the shpitz shpitz
soif. As long as it's the answer then
already you know that it's surviving the
shita and there's no reason to assume
that it's going to end up dying at the
very very end. So the mala
I'm going to have this of a no mean a
lot. How do I know this? Meaning how do
I know that this shmua that pirchus the
soif shita doesn't mean the soif shita
mamesh but it means the answer. So
meaning not soif but not shiva but the
answer. So that it's not I know from the
mission. Because the mission the mission
the other way zero right the mission
gave an example of where if the animal
was mifarches it's not a sign of life.
What was it? A daka that was the other
way zero. We just spoke a lot about
that. It said the is the when exactly
did this happen? Meaning the soif shita
if it happened at the end of the shita
call hey hey hey hey the taysel well has
to live so long. Meaning if it happened
the soif shita essentially what you're
telling me is that if this animal is
still able to make this kind of movement
the soif shita mamesh. And Rashi adds
that if it happens the soif shita it's
going to probably continue even after
the shita because the soif shita is like
a nano second. So it's going to happen
even after this
at the end of the shita. So you're
telling me that if it has that much life
at the very end of the shita it's not a
sign of life. It's a sign of death. Sign
of death would mean if it happened like
before the end of the shita. But even
the missioner that says there's this
jerk that the animal does at the end of
its life that's a sign of death. But it
can't be that it's doing it big matter
shita or maybe better even after the
shita already concluded. It's not
possible.
Obviously it did it the shita. So what
do you see from the missioner? That
really a pirchus the answer shita is
enough. Just this pirchus is not enough.
But it's for sure the missioner said but
that a purely
I shall not SAY MUST BE
BUT YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW I know
that's how I know.
Told that
could be
means
I want to know how
if it's
that means that purely that's not good
even not good so
as in the
maybe even a second after
how's that possible? What was the hey
hey hey
so yes
I
don't know what it doesn't do this
we are doing
must be that it died earlier.
Now there was this some
but about this
my click is going on over here but the
bottom line is but felt that there's no
way that if an animal jerks in any way
shape or form at the matter of the
that it would be anything other than a
sign of life. Which means then that when
the mission that says that if that
is not a sign of life must be talking
about it was the answer which means that
the purely is playing itself out
but it says I categorically disagree
with your premise. I think that no there
is an idea that
an animal will sometimes jerk and it
could be that movement will even go
beyond after the was already completed
and it's still considered a sign of
death which doesn't which means then
that there's no
that the purely is playing itself out
and so it could be it's very much
playing itself out but either way that's
the first sheet pretty straight forward.
It's
but holds that
so
I heard there's an Indian of so
but he clarified what is so mean it
means
purely
really it's
but it doesn't
have to be so
would be too early in the game because
just because it was alive at the it mean
it survived the and the but as long as
it's that's that happy medium and
hopefully there it's going to be okay.
He said that when it says it says
it means that it says it says it says
He didn't hear this
that it says
he is
he said that you want to know what it
says and
how do I know that it says
and he brought a
time when he
saw
the animal and he woke up and he saw
that the walls were filled with blood
the animal is going to be meaning you
said that the animal is dead and you
don't know whether it showed signs of
life simply because you couldn't see it
was
so if you wake up in the morning and you
see the walls are filled with blood it's
okay
because it means that the blood means
that
it says
in the
who said that is a sign of
that's a sign of life
that what is the mean when it says
it says
it says it doesn't mean the walls of the
barn it means the place of the
okay
I mean tell me it says
if you going to tell me that
it says
then I understand
but if you going to tell me it says and
by the way what does it say it says it
says it says it says it says it says it
says or like explain it means that it
says it says it says it says it says it
says it says it says it says that
it says it says it says it says it says
it says that
it says it says it says it says it says
>> [snorts]
>> it says it says it says it says it says
it says it says it says it says it says
it says it says it says says it says it
says it says it says it says it says it
says it says it says it says says it
says it says it says it says it says it
says it says it says it's the longest
says that why did the throw in the
middle that when it says in the it says
it says it says it says it says it says
it says and why was that important to
the narrative Let's say the kaislim mean
the walls of the barn, the the
schlachtois. Would anything change? So,
Rashi says yeah. Cuz Rashi says that if
an animal coughs up blood outside, you
would actually be able to tell, again,
we're not farmers or shochtim. So, if an
animal would cough up blood and you
would
walk in, you see like a murder scene.
There's this big mess on the ground.
You'd actually be able to tell whether
this zinka took place b'chila b'emtza
b'saif. There would be a way to know. If
it's in the bais hashchita, there's no
way to know. And that's why the Gemara
had to throw in v'alma shmuel kaislei
bais hashchita shmuel CUZ IT'S ACTUALLY
ACTIVE IN THE Gemara's right. Without
Shmuel's memory, there's no Rav Nachman
bar Yitzchak. But either way, says Rav
Nachman bar Yitzchak avo m'furash d'raya
from the Mishnah. Cuz you see in the
Mishnah
that Rav Shimon said
that hashocheit balayla u'l'machar
motzei shabbos layl Shabbos k'sheira
she'a zinka. U'k'shei d'Rav Eliezer
d'dayim zinka. And there's no way for
you to know the dam which is on the
k'solim. If k'solim means kaislei bais
hashchita the way Shmuel explained it,
there would be no way in the world to
know if it happened b'chila b'emtza
b'saif. Why does it doesn't matter? So,
it doesn't matter when it happened. Even
if it was b'chila, that dam is always
going to be okay. Must be perches works.
A field b'chila shochtim the dam has a
kasha. V'du mash'ani zinuk d'odif. Maybe
there's a cheilek between the sign of
life that is
zinuk versus the signs of life that come
from just the animal throwing its hand
or its feet and
making different movements and jerks.
Maybe there's
a certain preferential treatment that
zinuk gets because maybe that's a
greater sign of life. In other words, it
could be that as it relates to just
being matir the yad, the regel, etc., if
it happened b'chila, that wouldn't be a
raya necessarily that it survived. But
if it had so much koach that it was able
to be a zinuk, well, that's a raya that
for sure it's able to survive. So, could
be ordinarily
siman of chiyus b'chila is not a gilui
on the emtza b'saif. But maybe zinuk is
better. But the Gemara says you can't
say that cuz
is better and this is what we going to
learn
but now the mission that is false again
remember the mission of three sheets of
the first sheet of
or
that said actually the yard
of
second and he says
in
what do you see from in many of us yard
to do less even if you're
what do you see from in less than yard
the regular but the more says I don't
know if that's such a tiny cuz I could
always say
the meal here you see the is not like
the mission
but maybe
but maybe it's more than the
meaning
copy the sheet of the
kind of rubber rubber
and
it's in
but at the same time it could be
is better than the third sheet of the
third sheet of the yard or
so if you're going to compare and
contrast those two and
zinc but it would be enough but it's not
a riot upon him
the riot
but it won't be a riot of
if it was
yard of
that would be okay but the said I mean I
said
some the
that actually
a boost from that a
the father of a boost from who actually
says was a boost from asked but I mean
some say
wasn't the father of a boost from from
who was a boost from but it was the
brother of a boost from that the bottom
of the could you suggest that
sheet is a Muhammad and the bottom of
the can't be why cuz I don't know the
mission of the
third sheet of what they say
or the yard or the regular right that's
the third sheet of or the yard or the
regular rubber on the
who is the rubber on the front of the
rubber on the I'll be going back rubber
on the and that's what it sounds like a
little bit right rubber on the or
that said yard
and the rubber on the come along and
they say or yard or regular but if
that's the case, given pirchos me by it.
The loshon achas tifarches oy yad oy
regel sounds like, you got to do more.
No, it's not enough ad until you go a
little What do you mean? It's less. What
he should have said was a loshon that
connotes less. For example, kivan,
right? That would be a loshon that would
mean less. Achas tifarches means I got
to do more. Kivan tifarches means that I
don't have to do so much, right? Yad
v'regel, whichever we did first, other
than yad other than regel, that's going
to be okay. Elo pshita, right? We always
say this. There's an elo and then
there's an elo pshita. Elo pshit is
poshet, just from the grammar at the
Rebbe Eliezer, that he's commenting
Rebbe Eliezer, which makes sense. The
first shita was Rebbe Shimon bar Yochai
Rebbe Meir. Second shita is Rebbe
Eliezer. The chachamim moanim to Rebbe
Eliezer. Now if it's odef, if it's odef,
if it's more,
or meaning, if Rebbe Eliezer is more
than the chachamim, then my ad, then
again it doesn't make sense the loshon
of of ad. Again, it should have said a
loshon of kivan, not a loshon of ad. So,
it's poshet. It's poshet poshet that the
chachamim can't be talking to the first
shita, the shita of Rebbe Gamaliel
{slash} Rebbe Shimon Gamaliel. It has to
be that they're talking to Rebbe
Eliezer. And if they're talking to Rebbe
Eliezer and use the loshon of ad, must
be Rebbe Eliezer is
the less stringent position. Bottom
line, if that's the case, you see that
Rebbe Eliezer is less than Rebbe
Gamaliel. Dayo im zinko, he said it bok
tzeina. You see that Rebbe Eliezer is
less than the chachamim, not from what
Rebbe Eliezer said, but from what the
chachamim said. They said ad. So, Rebbe
Eliezer is the least of the shitas. Zog
Rebbe Nachman bar Yitzchak, if Rebbe
Eliezer says
zinko is enough, and in Rebbe Eliezer
you see it's enough if it's petur shita.
How do I know that? From Rebbe Shimon
who was going with shitas Rebbe Eliezer
said that if you find the walls of the
Beis HaShchita with ad, that's a sign of
life, even though I don't know if it
happened in the beginning, the middle,
the end because frankly I don't care.
Well, if that's the case and it's true
by Yitzchak which is the least of all
that it's only going to be true for
everything else. This is the sheet of
Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak that holds not
like this schmutter of Chizkuni heard
Schmita and he was clearing we've called
it Shita Schmita and Shrita and of
course all this stuff. Here's the
disclaimer, it's always Shita. But
either way, so it's [laughter] not like
this
that
figure out what else we could call it.
It's not like this Shita or this Shmua
or Shchita
or Shmita, I'm lost now. It's not like
what Rav Chizkuni had heard and that is
that it's Shmita
Shmita and we tried to figure out if
it's
or really
but rather what it is is
regardless we've done two of the three
Shitas and now we're
>> [laughter]
>> up to
third Shita about Shita. Rava Rava says
Rava says that
>> [laughter]
>> when Chazal said
it's Shita he heard the same thing Rav
Chizkuni heard, right? He heard it Shita
but he didn't say that means really
Emtza and only reason we're calling it
is
but rather the reason we're calling it
cuz we mean what we say and we say what
we mean. Shita means literally not Emtza
we would have said Emtza. That is I'm a
Rava Rava said I mean a lot.
How do I know this? Now it's
interesting. Rav Chizkuni proved his
Shita from the Mishna.
Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak proved his
Shita from the Mishna. Rava is not going
to prove his Shita from the Mishna. In
fact, it's going to be a wild this is
very much
so says Rava how do I know this I know
from the following price. It says in the
Torah Shoy I Kasef I Ays Kivali
this passage tells us the
that you know an animal till it's eight
days old. We know the hazal, it's a
megish rabin parshas emor that says that
we compare a carbon to a person. And
just like a person, a boy, bris milah
happens by yom shmini, so too is by yom
shmini v'hol hayotzei as it relates to
an animal as well. And this is the makor
to this famous ray that the gaon brings
us in his beer hagolah hilchos milah
that when a
person
is machnis a son with bris shalom avinu
be'ito u'bizmano even sh'lo be'ito
u'bizmano
he's bringing a carbon. He's not just
doing a mitzvah. From this
comparison that hazal made in the din
yom shmini as it relates to
bris milah versus yom shmini that a
child has to be 8 days old. This is the
shuta shuta shuta sh'meiker this pasuk
stating that
hazal darshin this pasuk and learned
that a lot of other halachos. It says
shor oy kesev. Rashi says the word oy is
extra. Didn't have to say oy kesev. We
learn from here prat l'klayim. So in the
event you would have this mixed breed of
animals, it wouldn't be kosher to be
brought as a carbon. It says oy ayil.
Again, the word oy is extra. And we
learn from there prat l'nidma. So what's
a nidma? So by the way, this is sugias
that's going to be coming up towards the
latter part of the masecta, but a nidma
is where a sheep and a goat gave birth
to a child. The child is technically a
goat, but it looks like a sheep. The
bottom line is
it's not something you can bring as a
carbon. kivalei when it says kivalei we
learn from here prat l'yotzei dafen that
the only time an animal is kosher to be
brought as a carbon is if the birth was
a natural birth. If however it was a
C-section, right? It wasn't born
naturally, yotzei dafen it's not going
to be kosher. It says v'hayu shivas
yamim. We learn from here prat l'choser
zman. Has to be 7 days old. That's
pretty straightforward. AND TACHAS IMOI
PRAT L'YOSAM. That if the animal is a
yosam, it can't be brought as a carbon.
Says the gemara.
>> [snorts]
>> Rava is going to work. Hay yosam heichi
dami? What does the bris mean when it
says that a yosam can't be brought as a
carbon? E leima d'yoladetei imei. Does
it mean when we say how do define Yosam?
It means that there was a mother animal
gave birth to a child
and then at some point it died. So right
now this CHILD DOESN'T HAVE A MOTHER
WHICH is the definition of a Yosam. But
says
right we had the same
but this animal the mother has to live
forever. It's a funny
that if the animal doesn't have a mother
it's a Yosam and you can't bring it as a
carbon it doesn't make sense. Ella the
Mesa
the day Maybe what it means is not that
at some point a year later the mother
died but it means the mother died before
the child before this animal was born.
Well if that's the case as
if the mother died while the baby was in
its womb that means the mother lost the
ability to deliver the child naturally
which means that the child is going to
be a
which means it's already in a
from
I don't need
right this is not just a
Right
those two possibilities are not
possible. The first one is just because
it's untenable and the second one is
because it's already taken. I already
have a for this. Hello what must have
happened was is that
it must be
of the later right as the baby animal
was being born that
the mother that
the child says
if what the person essentially is
telling me when it says
Yosam is is that the mother has to be
alive at the end of the
I get this
meaning it wasn't a
from
because the animal the mother was alive
long enough to deliver naturally but at
the second
that
but if you're going to tell me that you
don't need that the mother should be
alive
at the later
And if it would die a little bit
earlier, like that's what this Allah is
coming to teach me. Well, if that's the
case,
then why do I need the drasha? Me Wally
enough guy know me it's just a little
bit of a word in tomorrow what which is
why it's a little bit hard to read in
real time. Sort of repeating ourselves.
But basically what Rob is saying is that
it's clear that this drasha of
is coming to say that the mother has to
be alive all the way to the end through
the of the
but if it dies
then it's it's not going to be okay.
Why? Because if it's coming to tell me
anything other than that that if the
mother died before that that's when it's
going to be a problem. But really it
doesn't have to be alive till the very
very end of the
well that was already in this from
so must be what we're coming to say is
is that this
of
teaches me that if
it's going to be a soul because it's not
meaning it has to be alive a little bit
more than that.
It's a price. So again you have a price
that I learned that a whole bunch of
from the
what you
what we need is
teaches me probably we're at the of the
that
what do you need? You need that it
should be alive the mother a little bit
more than that. Once it's alive a little
bit more than that, it's long as it
wasn't
you don't need that it should be alive
forever. Right
the was not a requirement. But at the
very least it has to be up to that. And
Rob back into how I know that's what the
drasha is. That's the wordiness over
here. Okay, so what does what does have
to do with our we're learning the
we're trying to figure out what the is.
We're trying to figure out when the is.
We know
I know from this price. So if you take a
look at it
Zeh pure shlamisa. So Rashi says it's
washing in on craw. So essentially
what's this possible my teaching me? The
being in
at my later. That the mother has to be
alive until the my later or
and it even has to be alive a little bit
after the later. Because if it's that
pure shlamisa
that's exactly what we're going to might
from
the if not have a
it's going to be a
right? The
height
of
the later.
Right? That's obviously what it's coming
to be might. Okay, so what does it have
to do with us? So if you skip to Rashi
from here you
see
that you see from here
that
the being in
you see from here that anytime say you
have to have
you would have to have the when all
the way at the very very end. The that
the mother has to have it has to have
all the way to the end. So when we say
that the him
has to have otherwise it's going to be a
problem it means it has to have all the
way to the end. So again what's the
that whenever said you need
it means that
you see it from this
because otherwise the animal is going to
be considered a
if you see it over there you're going to
see it as it relates to
the him
as well. So what's the what's the what's
the recap
this second part of the half?
The
is that the
if it shows life during the course of
the it's going to be okay. The question
is at what point of the does it have to
show life? It's a three
said
and
said
and said
and they all had a
that it's
was really based on a that he heard. But
he heard a but he knew that he knew
couldn't mean that he knew that
>> So he knew that it has to be the answer
is why? Because you see that an animal
that jerks itself in a way that a master
will sometimes do is not considered a
sign of life. And
his mind if that would happen the
sure would be a sign of life. is not
talking about the man who is is over
so he clearly because the answer is
going to be fine.
the answer is okay.
He said okay. What was his his was from
the man He said if someone alive and he
finds that the walls the walls of the
man laying down that's a sign that the
sign of life
And don't tell me maybe is more because
it's actually less. We went through the
mission and we heard it on it. You see
that from the three sheets in the
mission there's no question in the world
the most common sheet is the is the
sheet of the man
or the man who second is the
and third is the man who is the So for
the man who is the sheet is enough
certainly it's going to be okay for the
other sheets and then finally said that
and the sheet of the man who is
What's my
my is because you see whenever we talk
about
always means the man I know it from the
man of the leader of a man in the world
of the man who is the man and the same
is going to be true here.
What does do with the
with his desire with his desire
[clears throat] that doesn't mean it
means the answer So if you remember
addressed it already. He was the one who
was of his desire
When we went to the man real time we
didn't realize that the man was really
setting himself up to be able to go
ahead and say another shot. So the
reason Rava didn't
care of of Chizda's raya, he already
dressed that he was the bal plukta, he
was the one that was makchish raya that
he brought. What about Shimon's raya?
Doesn't Shimon have like a really good
raya? Or Nachman bar Yitzchak's raya
from Rav Shimon? You see zinka, and
zinki have no way of knowing if it's
b'chila or emtza or b'saif. That seems
to be a good raya. And this is something
that the whole shmua has to be meyushev.
Rav Chizda's shaat in the shmua, Rava's
shaat in the shmua. How do you meyushev
that? So, Tosfos speaks it out, and
Tosfos says that it was lo shchiach
zinka to happen b'chila. It was lo
shchiach for it to happen in the saif.
So, even though it's true beyond a
reasonable doubt, you have no way to
know, but the metzius is that usually
the zinka took place b'saif. And being
that usually the zinka took place
b'saif, so it's fair to assume
that that's what happened over here as
well. Either way, moving along to the
third part of the daf. Amar Rava, Rava
said, "Hilchos k'hilchos issur, as it
relates to the halachos of all these
dinim, it follows the following braisa."
The braisa says, "B'heima daka
she'pashta yada
v'lo achzira psula. That a b'heima daka
that was pashta yada v'lo achzira
psula."
So again, a b'heima daka as opposed to a
b'heima gasa, it was pashta yada,
stretched his hand out, it was lo
achzira psula. We knew this already from
the mishna, cuz that's a sign of death,
not a sign of life. But Medvarim Amurim
stating that, says the braisa b'yad,
that's only true if it was pashta b'yad.
Aval b'regel, if it was the foot, bein
pashta v'lo kafa, bein kafa v'lo pashta,
it doesn't matter if it stretched out or
it stretched it back. In either
situation, she'eira is going to be
kosher. But Medvarim Amurim like the
braisa b'daka, it's only true if it's a
b'heima daka. Aval b'gasa, if it's a
b'heima gasa, then [laughter] bein
b'yad, bein b'regel, right? B'heima daka
matters if it's the yad or the regel.
But over here, bein b'yad, bein b'regel,
bein pashta v'lo kafa, bein kafa v'lo
pashta, she'eira in all situations it's
going to be kosher. Aval and as it
relates to a bird, a filu lo rifref ela
gapa, Rashi says rifref is less than
kishkush. So, kishkes is, just subtract
a little bit and you have a riffraff.
But, even if it wagged something, it's
uh wing the light kishkes, right? And it
didn't do a kishkes cuz riffraff is less
than kishkes. Uh I'm sorry. The light
kishkes is not right.
>> [laughter]
>> And it was makashkes
then it itself would be considered a
pirchus. So, Rava says, "You want to
know what the halacha is? I'm giving you
the halachas." The halachas are like
this. It comes to beheima daka, if it's
pashta, it's a sign of death. If it
brings it back in, that's already a sign
of life. That's only true if it's the
hand. If it's the foot, pashta kafa,
it's all the same. That's all true for
beheima daka. Beheima gasa, doesn't
matter if it's the hand or the foot, and
if it went out or in, in every situation
we'll be fine. As far as it relates to a
bird, even if just gives a little tweak
or tweet, even that itself is going to
be okay. And the Gemara asks, "I
understand. My kamashma lon, what's the
grace of chiddush over here of uh Rava?
Isn't it in a Mishna? Isn't it a Mishna?
Beheima daka de Mishna said pashta yada
v'lo yachzir pasula. She'eino lo etzlo
nafash. That was the Mishna. Now, the
Mishna wasn't nearly as wordy as the
braisa. That should not come as news to
anybody. But, at the same time, really
everything that you have in the braisa,
you can extrapolate from the Mishna.
Why? Because what does the Mishna say?
Beheima daka she pashta yada o yada in
ragloi. Sounds like as it relates to the
ragla. No, the foot is always going to
be a
a sign of life. It's always going to be
kosher. Not just that, it's a beheima
daka. Daka in gasa loi. So, as it
relates to as it relates to gasa,
doesn't matter hand or foot, it's always
going to be fine. So, what's the kasha?
So, what's the kasha? It's really
mefurash in the Mishna. So, if it's
mefurash in the Mishna,
so it's not a kasha on the braisa, it's
a kasha on Rava. Rava said hilchos kimah
masnisa. Of course, that's the halacha
mefurash in the Mishna. Rashi explains
cuz we know halacha k'stam Mishna. And
being that halacha k'stam Mishna, and if
this is all a stam Mishna, so I don't
need to know of a braisa to know what
the halacha is. Meaning, it sounds like
Rava walked into Beis Medrash and said,
"I'm going to tell you a halacha. You to
Everyone listen clearly because it's a
very important halakha l'maaseh. The
halakha is
against the maaseh. This way, that way,
it's it's it's so obvious. Everyone
knows this. Any person that's a a ben
essel a mishnah is going to notice a
halakha cuz he's going to know that the
mishnah said it's established the behama
daka dakin gasoloy shepos yode yode in
ragloy. So, isn't it almost for sure the
mishnah bracha says, "Yes."
Oif, it's three reigalim tonight. The
one part of this braisa that Rava needed
in order to lay down the law of the land
was as relates to oif. Didn't say one
word about rish rish, who would remember
that? Didn't say the word rish rish in
the mishnah. That was something that is
only exclusively in the braisa and it's
for that reason that Rava felt he had to
say hilchesa ke hora maaseh naisa
exhale and really this is an exhale on
the whole sugia of hashoichet es hamisu
kedas. So, as it relates to raid, two
hours. The first, we're going to go back
to the Beis Sal Levi
and talk a little bit more about it. The
second one is dvar agoda just to end
this series of intense stuff and on a
little bit of a lighter note. So,
over the last several days,
we've been discussing the Beis Sal Levi
in chelek beis siman yud aleph, which
discusses shitas Rashi in the sugia of
chechla d'meitze manim, which is on daf
lamed amud beis, and shava d'meitze
manim, which is on daf lamed amud beis
amud aleph amud beis.
The gemara in two places here in perek
hashoichet had any boya. What happens if
somebody messes up shoyichet d'meitze
manim? He tripped up on one of the
halachas l'Moshe miSina. And daf lamed
amud beis, the gemara's question is, if
he did chechla d'meitze manim. And daf
lamed amud beis amud aleph, the gemara's
shaila is, he did sh'hiya d'meitze
manim. Both cases, chechla d'meitze
manim mau, shava d'meitze manim mau, and
the gemara gives the same answer. In
both Sugyas, it's a one-word answer,
take two. Tishbi Ataris Kushis Vibois.
We mentioned that this Machlokes is
Rashi and Rabbeinu Tam. How do we learn
the Posuk from the Gamorah? Rashi learns
that the Shaila was in the event that
the Shochet already did Rov of the Siman
Bekashus, but he messed up in the meat
basar. Do we say that being that Rov is
really all you need, and he already got
Rov right, so this is a kosher Shchita,
and it's for that reason what you do in
the meat basar is neither here nor
there. Or do you say being that you went
weiter, so the Halacha is now you have
no choice, but you have to get it right.
And if you got it wrong, you're a Moiser
Keriah.
Rabbeinu Tam is Chaylek with Rashi, and
the primary reason is cuz how could it
be that if you already got the Shchita
right, even though you decided to go
weiter, but if you messed up only in the
meat basar, it would be an issue. And
it's because of that Rabbeinu Tam learns
that the Shaila was Hech with the
Shabbat meat Simanim, but not the meat
basar. It was only the meat kam. NOW,
YOU ENDED up getting Rov right, hence
the Shaila. But the point is it was not
the meat basar where the mistake
occurred, but rather it was the meat kam
where the mistake occurred. We mentioned
that as it relates to Shitas Rashi,
there's a big Machlokes Rishonim what
Rashi meant. The Rashba and the Ravad is
a bias, the Maharshal and Yam Shel
[ __ ] and really Rov Rishonim
understood that even Rashi, who learned
that there's a Sugya in two places,
Lamed Aleph Beis, Lamed Beis, Lamed
Aleph, Hech meat basar Shabbat meat
basar, and there's a Tzadd that even
though you got it right, maybe now you
were Moiser Keriah. So, what do you do
with the Rabbanan? We go with the meat
basar out to the meat kam. But,
MideOraisa, it's Poshet. Once you get it
right, you got it right, there's no way
to mess it up. Stated that the Tzlosh
brings from Rabbeinu Yerucham that said
that Al Liba de Rashi, the Gamorah's
Ibaya is an Ibaya DeOraisa, and it's
even Mashma that way from Rashi, cuz
Rashi said that being that the Gamorah
says Takeu, the Halacha is we go with
the Chumra, and if it's a Shaila with
the Rabbanan, it would be a Sfek
DeRabbanan LeKula. And from the fact
that we go with the Chumra, it's Mashma
that Sfek DeOraisa LeChumra. And if
that's the case, really the Shaila then
becomes what's the one that what's the
side that even though I did what you did
already and that's I got it right, but
[laughter] if I was
master
to be an issue. So the base of levy says
that Rashi is that
when we say that only has to shut the
road of the same on the
is the touch of Ruby
that the sheer of how much of the same
and you have to shut is the right and
once you do the right, the rest of the
same and might as well just be the foot.
It's not a mocking. It's not a
anymore of where the needs to be
all
is not over the same and the gun
nervous because of Ruby
I don't need to shut the whole same and
to have a in the whole same. If I shut
over the same and that itself can get me
a in the gun
so the base of levy Rashi understood
that
has to be in THE WHOLE SAME. NERVOUS
RUBY tells me that when I shut the
right, I get a in the mute bastard as
well. If I would not shut the mute
bastard, it's true. I would have a in
the mute bastard. I you did the of the
right, but that's possible. If I decide
to go and shut the mute bastard, so the
is not because of the make believe that
I got
the is there because OF WHAT I DID. SO
IF IT'S HOW IN THE MUTE BASTARD, WELL
THEN WE understand why if you have a
mute bastard, you shut the mute bastard,
it's going to be a problem. If the way
Ruby works and specifically Ruby
tomorrow on the world of schooling is
that the only how in the right. So it's
not how in the mute bastard. SO IT
DOESN'T MATTER HOW I SHUT IT. IF I SHUT
IT, WHEN I SHUT IT, WHY I shut it. It's
like shutting the ear of the foot. It's
not part and parcel of the
so there's no way that I have a mute
bastard and a mute bastard would be a
problem. The Rashi learned that the was
always how in the mute bastard. NERVOUS
IT'S HOW IN THE MUTE BASTARD I YOU DID
the right, but if YOU DECIDE TO GO AHEAD
AND do the shita in the mere past or
yourself, then it's been halal shita.
That is what Rashi understood and hence
this Gemara's with a take off.
Oh, and hug over the camera. But this is
the longest that the base of Levy
extrapolated from shita's Rashi.
Sayan daflam on the base fry on daf lam
and base on the off. Now we will move a
file full a little bit.
That's Hashem in
this shita of Rashi the cloud in the
Havana of shita's Rashi of the base of
Levy before. We spoke about it a little
bit from the culture perspective cuz in
culture there's a term called mirror.
Comes from a mission or in Yuma daflam
and also on the base.
And mirror is the hash loma. It's the
mirror of the shita. And we brought two
rias from the earlier
that the mirror of a shita in the world
of culture is not treated like the
shita.
The kind of Godel on Yom Kippur where
there was a paid of him to do all the
avoda, he would do the shita of the
tamid shacha, but because he had to do
the kabala, he had no choice but to have
someone else do the mirror. And there
was no paid on that.
The Tosefta in the beginning of Masachet
Zevachim
says that if Rashi the shita would be
done with Adam Rashi shima, but the
mirror would be done with Adam Rashi
shima, it's neither here nor there. And
the shira is what's the reason that in
shita's shulen have to be a pastor. The
shama mirror pastor is a take off with a
shiv kashan shulen that you're supposed
to be machmir, yet in the world of
culture mirror
I don't care if Zohar does it on Yom
Kippur. You want to do mirror with Adam
Rashi SHIMA GOT RASHI RIGHT ALREADY MY
MOTHER SHACHA. IF YOU HAVE THE LONGEST
in the base of Levy as a shita in the
mirror pastor. Now what's usually how
you did the right, but now that I went
ahead and did it, it's happening through
my shita. So why should it be okay if a
non kind of Godel does it on Yom Kippur?
And why should it be that if Adam Rashi
shima it shouldn't be a problem? So that
was something that we will move a file
full about.
More recently, we mentioned the Hadash
from Brisk that fresh Pesach brings in
the side street that he heard from
Israel Velt a
Hadashah K'chaya
in the city of Brisk where there was
a Shochet that was B'meah V'asrah, but
was Mekel because the animal wasn't
Meturgus based on our Sugya of
Metzukenes which that if it's Meturgus
it's N'veilah K'chachah the Ramah says
what to allow. So if that's true it
should be true as well and said that
being that it wasn't Meturgus must be
that it already died and
if it died
IT MEANS WHAT YOU DID IN the Meah
V'ASRAH WAS NOTHING. SO EVEN though it's
true all the
you could Shochet IN THE MEAH V'ASRAH
BUT ONCE IT'S DEAD ALREADY THEN
obviously you can't do nothing. And it's
for that reason went ahead with his
Teyku and we spoke out of
to others and some more contemporary
as it relates to this
Hadash from
but
just to mention one more and it's really
this is one of these mind teasers and
it's a fascinating fascinating Shailah
that the
discuss and it begins with a Shmaitzah.
The Shmaitzah's in Shmaitzah Aleph it's
Perek Chof Beis. So here's the
background. We know S'feikah D'Oraisa
L'Chumrah S'feik S'feikah D'Oraisa
L'Kulah stating that the
is it's based on
Sugyas Hashas that the only time you go
L'Kulah when there's a S'feik S'feikah
D'Oraisa is if it's not going up K'negad
Chazakah. But if there's a Chazakah
K'negad the S'feik S'feikah then the is
even the S'feik S'feikah you're still
going to go L'Chumrah. So S'feik
S'feikah D'Oraisa but only K'negad
Chazakah. But that's in contrast to a
one S'feikah where you go L'Chumrah even
K'negad Chazakah. But if you have a
S'feik S'feikah K'negad Chazakah the is
you're going to go L'Chumrah. It's for
that reason the it
that if a
Shochet and he has a sfeikos sfeika
whether the shchita was okay or not
okay,
we don't eat the meat. And the reason
is, based on the Gemara in Daf Tes,
where the Gemara says "Beheima bechayaha
b'chezkas issur omedes", and therefore
it's always considered to be b'chezkas
issur actually v'od al achas kamma until
you know for sure that something
happened. Every beheima, before it gets
a kosher shchita, is considered to be
b'chezkas issur. Now, what's the chezkas
issur? That's machlokes Rashi and
Tosfos. Rashi learns the chezkas issur
is the chezkas "eima menachas". Tosfos
says once you shacht the animals for
sure now they're "eima menachas". So you
can't say "eima menachas". Rashi holds
"machshakinan l'issur". This is a whole
'nother inyan. But Tosfos says what's
the chezkas issur? It's the chezkas
"eina zevucha". Because it says in the
Torah "v'eina zevucha", which might mean
either a mitzvas asei tzarich s'ramem al
But the bottom line is that if YOU DON'T
SHACHT YET, you're violating "k'ilu" the
"eina zevucha" or you haven't fulfilled
yet the "eina zevucha". And if you go
ahead and eat it, that would be
considered
the issur "eina zevucha". And that's
what the chezkas issur is.
But the bottom line is every animal
until the shchita is b'chezkas issur.
And for that reason it's brought down in
Shulchan Aruch that if there's a sfeikos
sfeika in the shchita, you don't eat it.
"Ai, it's a sfeikos sfeika, but it's
k'neged chazaka." WHICH CHAZAKA? CHULLIN
DAF TES AMUD ALEPH. It's the chezkas
issur according to Rashi, chezkas "eima
menachas". And according to Tosfos, it's
the chezkas "eina zevucha". Clarifies
the Shach Shmaitza.
What would be if there's a sfeikos
sfeika in the midbar?
What would be if the shochet shacht in
the midbar?
And he had a sfeikos sfeika. "L'didei
dan, d'we machmir like shitas Rashi."
That a shchita in the midbar
is considered shchita, and therefore you
better get it right. "A feel in the day
rise." So
l'chumra l'chumra l'chumra. What would
be right now if you had a sfeikos
sfeika? Says the Shach Shmaitza, "I'm
very very not sure. On the one hand, my
feeling is it should be no different
than if I had a sfeikos sfeika in the
treif or the answer the shita. If
there's a sfeikos sfeika in the shita,
even though sfeikos sfeika even with the
roiv you always go to kulah but not
k'neged chazaka. Over here there's a
cheskas issur. So, cheskas issur is odd
from a sfeikos sfeika. Ob zogt the
shmeitza, I'm not sure. You know, I am
not sure. Because when this shochet went
ahead and he shocheted the roiv, at that
point it became kosher. SO, AT THAT
SECOND the cheskas issur went away.
The even achai, the cheskas ain boiach.
At that point the issur went away. IF AT
THAT POINT THE ISSUR WENT AWAY, now that
I go further with THE MEAT BASAR, I'M
NOT SO SURE THAT MEAT BASAR IS GOING
HEAD TO HEAD anymore with a chazaka. Up
until the roiv, you had the chazaka. But
the minute I did the roiv, at that point
the chazaka went away cuz the issur went
away. Right? If you would shochet the
roiv, drop your knife and take a bite
out of this uh animal, it's kosher. YOU
DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG. THAT MEANS
THERE'S A MOMENT IN TIME WHERE THERE'S
no cheskas issur. So, if there's a
moment in time where there's no cheskas
issur, so if I go further and I have a
sfeikos sfeika, I can't treat it anymore
as a sfeikos sfeika, can I get this?
What's the other side? The other side is
that being that there's a long distance,
we know what the long distance is, the
base aleph. But being that there's a
long distance, then when I go further
it's considered part of the shita. And
when I go further, these are the words
of the shmeitza, igoy mussar mafreya.
That the shita zich nisht opgeton. I'll
you do the roiv. But now the shita is
happening right there everything. I I
only have to do roiv? No, really have to
do everything. I just get to everything
through the roiv. But the extent that I
go further this is shita, [laughter]
WHICH MEANS THE SHITA IS NOT FINISHED
YET. SO, IF THE SHITA IS NOT FINISHED
YET, it's still going up k'neged
chazaka. So, sfeikos sfeika k'neged
chazaka is going to be a problem. Here's
the point. Do you look at it in the real
time or do you look at it based on
what's going on in the world of the
mafreya? When I get up to the mid basra
and I'm about to do something that's
going to involve a safex faker, at that
second there's no there's really no
hazaka. It's when I
go and I fear roish and now it's a gloi
mussel mafreya that I continue to walk
and that I was mashlim the shchita al ye
day the physical shchita that limafreya
in the world of retroactive that that
hazaka went away. So when I was living
in in real time the hazaka wasn't there
because the issur went away. But then
again I went weiter and the minute I
decided to go weiter so now we're ready
the gloi mussel mafreya
that the hazaka really
never went away. And if that's the case
it's safex faker can have a hazaka. It's
a close the shmeitza. It's funny you
shmeitza is a a hard safer, right? You
sit down. If you're not holding in
chulin lamed lamed beis daf tes and the
sugias that we're learning right now
this is an almost impossible shmeitza.
But the truth is we're holding in it and
this is already the fourth reid by
psiyat dishmaya on this topic so we know
the indian a little bit. It's like a
shmaka shaila. Indian that he had a
safex by usually safex faker mid bas
when you're learning bava kama this is
hard. But um safex faker in the mid
basra where ordinarily a safex faker in
the shchita being that it's connected to
chezkas issur
would be dead on arrival but now that
it's
in the mid basra and in real time etzem
the chezkas issur went away so maybe
it's a safex faker shlog in a hazaka
dalachta digol digol or DO YOU SAY NO
igloi mussel mafreya when I decided to
go weiter that the shchita was not
nishlam so now it's had a din that it's
ain as a voch as a even in a chaya and
if that's the case based on this I
should be a problem.
The zoch the so is venira.
What do you think the zoch is going to
say? What's the hergesh of the zoch?
Venira. The chol igafna given the
shchita surva huta afel gaf the halacha
is a nala basafek in mid basra vim shav
the mid basra
>> So at that point the
Khazaka went away and if it went away my
hair goes that's what it's going to be.
Then the toy says
I have a riot and the toy says riot is
from issue
which is
beyond the scope of this rate fight. But
this is the good old Khazaka and
our own Messiah that was another Khazaka
that
said what the toy said will be at the
Khazaka
and he brings a
from a riot that's not beyond the scope
scope of this rate fight. From a Khazaka
that we learned together the Khazaka is
the Khazaka of the Khazaka of the
Khazaka of
His riot is in Khazaka of the Khazaka of
the Khazaka of the Khazaka of the
Khazaka of the Khazaka
The Khazaka of the Khazaka in that
Khazaka is discussing the Khazaka of the
Khazaka
The Khazaka of the Khazaka of the
Khazaka of the Khazaka of the Khazaka of
the Khazaka of the Khazaka that Khazaka
of the Khazaka of the Khazaka of the
Khazaka of the Khazaka of the Khazaka of
the Khazaka of the Khazaka says the
Khazaka of the Khazaka
Khazaka of the Khazaka of the Khazaka of
the Khazaka of the Khazaka of I want to
share with you a Khazaka that I had.
Khazaka Khazaka Khazaka
When does the Khazaka of the Khazaka of
the Khazaka
in the world of Khazaka Khazaka of the
Khazaka of the Khazaka of the Khazaka of
the Khazaka of the Khazaka So we know
when
Khazaka Khazaka Khazaka animal the
Khazaka of the Khazaka goes away. Right
for a guy Khazaka of the Khazaka is
Khazaka of the Khazaka for a year it's
Khazaka of the Khazaka. So the question
is at what point does the Khazaka of the
Khazaka go away? So ordinarily Khazaka
of the Khazaka of the Khazaka of the
Khazaka when you Khazaka of the Khazaka
of the Khazaka of the Khazaka of the
Khazaka goes away. But what would be
says the come the [ __ ] if the [ __ ]
[laughter] decided to go right there and
he decided to shut even though me a
pastor, do we say the thing that he went
right there it going muscle of my friend
that is even when I had it did not go
away when you shut it the right. What do
you say the thing that if you shut the
right and you drop your guns at that
point, the is even when I had it is
gone. It's not going to come back cuz
you decided to go right there. And even
though there's a suit of pastor of
[ __ ] me pastor, but say THAT THAT JUST
MEANS THAT IT'S HOW SHOULD IT EVEN IN
THE MID PASTOR? BUT WHAT'S THE GOOD is
even when I HAD IT WENT AWAY. SO IF IT
WENT AWAY, WHAT AM I AFRAID IT'S GOING
TO COME BACK? THIS IS THE subject that
the [ __ ] had. This is the party. When
would the is even when I had it? So it's
interesting. He says that the real thing
I had this was that the is even when I
had it should go away when you finish
the [ __ ] So that even though it's
true if you pause the screen when you do
right of this one of there's no way to
save him in the head. And if somebody
would take a bite out of this animal
right now, he's not over the is [ __ ]
of even when I had it. But if you
decided to go right there and you see
that's considered a [ __ ] so you going
to muscle of my friend or not? So he
said is the real thing is that there
should not be an is even when I had it
stating that that the
the is even when I had it should be
there. Cuz if you decided to go right
there, so the is even when I had it he
will do my friend and just jump right
back. Stating that he says I have a
foolish [ __ ]
I have a foolish [ __ ] not the way. And
the [ __ ] is from a very good [ __ ]
tomorrow. The [ __ ] that we went
together and we went back to one of the
earlier rate bites in the [ __ ] and
that is in [ __ ] in the [ __ ] of days.
The [ __ ] that it brings that there was
a [ __ ] of
and [ __ ] regarding the [ __ ] of a
[ __ ] If you have a [ __ ] he [ __ ]
an animal and it turned out that the
animal was
a [ __ ] The question is does the
[ __ ] need to [ __ ] the [ __ ] now or
does he not have to [ __ ] the [ __ ]
now? What would be the side that he
should have to [ __ ] the [ __ ] it's
cuz we know that the base of [ __ ] is
[ __ ] It's considered to be hot and as
a result this [ __ ] and [ __ ] To the
extent that he shocked at the second is
bliss of a he shocked at the treifa said
is bliss of treifa inside the second
right now. So, he should have to go
ahead and do a go and that's what's
going on over there. And the more is
different style them of what the shilo
might exactly says the Gamara. The
I have a rye that if somebody shocked
treifa you don't have to cut your the
second. You know what the rye is?
Because if I shocked at the second
treifa the second needs a go low THAT
EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU SHOCKED AN animal
the second should need a go low. And the
reason is because when the shilo goes in
and shocked the animal before the shilo
is right to more than the animals even
in a high which means that the second is
bliss of even in a high. So, if it is
bliss of even in a high because of the
SEE IT SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE TO DO A GO SO
WE SPOKE ABOUT THIS IS A rye for me that
there's something called bliss of even
in a high. But the bottom line is so
says the Gamara it's possible that a
second of a treifa you don't have to be
my go. Because if you have to be my go
the second OF A TREIFA THEN EVERY TIME
THE SHILO SHOCKED YOU HAVE TO BE MY GO
no one ever heard of such a thing. But
the more says that's not a rye. You know
why it's not a rye?
Because it's true that the base of shilo
is high. And it's true when you shocked
an animal that's not kosher with a
second it's going to be by layer from
the animal there would be a problem. OH,
BUT WHEN DOES THE BASE OF shilo become
high? When does it become hot enough for
it to do what it does in the world of
Yeredea? It's at the Gamara the shilo.
At the Gamara the shilo is not even in a
high anymore. Because it's only even in
a high before the Gamara the shilo. And
we know that at the Gamara the shilo is
not even in a high. So, mathematically
it just doesn't line up and so that
reason it's not going to be a problem.
No it's THE MORE SAYS BUT ACTUALLY
YOU'RE RIGHT. EVERY single time you
shocked an animal the man down there
second treifa is by a go low you should
need a go low on the second. BUT
TECHNICALLY it's not an issue because
when it's even in a high it's not high
AND WHEN IT'S HIGH IT'S NOT EVEN in a
high. So, you never have it that it's
high and even IN A HIGH SO LIKE THIS
you're going TO HAVE AN ISSUE. SO, THE
shilo down there
he says that's all good when you shocked
only right. He says but what's going to
be if the shilo goes in and he shechts
the ENTIRE SEMEN? WHICH SHILO GOES IN
AND SAYS HE'S SUPPOSED TO DO?" THAT'S
THE
right we saw right in the beginning of
TELL THE HE'S SUPPOSED TO GO AHEAD AND
SHECHT. RIGHT, HE'S SUPPOSED TO GO AHEAD
AND DO IT. IN THAT SITUATION, every time
the shochet does
you can end up with this problem. You
know why? BECAUSE WHEN YOU SHECHT THE
ROVE, IT'S THE
You're going TO HAVE THE
HOW DO I KNOW THAT? CUZ ALL THE
ARE TOTALLY IN A
SHITA. AND THE ROVE is considered A
SO IT'S POSSIBLE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
THE
OF THE
WHEN ALL YOU do is you shecht the rove.
And if you're going to tell me that
Rashi's SHITA IN
WHEN I GO WIDER, it's of
the
SO WHEN I SHECHT THE
THE SECOND BEING FROM
IT'S TRUE UP UNTIL THE ROVE YOU'LL TELL
ME THERE'S NO
BUT when I go ahead AND I SHECHT ROVE
NOW it's high. IT'S SUPER DUPER HIGH
NOW. SO FOR SURE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE
DOES DOES HAVE THE ABILITY to be
And if it's GOING TO BE
IT SHOULD BE A PROBLEM. SO
THAT'S THE CASE IT'S clear that even
though my
was that if I go wider in the world of
Rashi you have to say
is going to be there. I will have to
admit the is going to be there.
The is really not going to be there.
It's really not going to be there. As
long as
you have no choice but to say that this
is the way it's going to be.
If you think about it, the
and
in the
your
They both arrived in the same exact
place. They're both saying the same
thing. What they're both saying is is
that even though there's a
of
and there's a of but this whole is only
that if you mess up in the shita, the
shita is going to be a shita. But at the
same time that's clear that as it
relates to the it's a be it be it be it
be it be it be it be it be it be it be
it be it be it be it be it be it be it
be it be it be it be it be it be it be
it be it be it be it be it be it be it
be it be it be it be it be it be it be
it be it be it be it be it be it be it
be it be it be it be it be it be it be
it be it be it be it be it be it be it
be it be it be it be it be it be it the
is it going to go away in this
world what would be if you had a
fake in the
by the way it could be you don't even
need a
in the because if you remember the whole
of the
is a with a
so could be even one would be
but anyway a
in the
would be not considered a fake but
would be considered regular
you would go to which the says because
in English when there's a fake
but in the
as a much as
but being that it's
over there not the was DISCUSSING IS
THERE
THAT WAS HIS DISCUSSION is there
and the said the same thing that even if
you go
where we look at what you did
being part and parcel of the
but at the same time but at the same
time that is only as it relates to if
what I did is and not BUT
THAT'S IS
IS GOING TO GO AWAY the same thing the
both say that even though the goes in
the
but what's
how I view the animal right when I
finish the
they're both saying I view it now as a
kosher animal I view it as a kosher
animal now if I mess up then you're
going to have a problem but the
I view this as a I view this as a kosher
animal and therefore in the world of the
you
don't have any of the
issues and in the world of in the world
of the
in the world of the
you're not going to have any of the
issues what's interesting though is that
the
in his
mission in his
was
the the the mirror the chef schmitzer
there's no one who's a a bigger
authority in the world of hazakis than
the chef schmitzer, right? So the chef
schmitzer maybe the chef schmitzer's
brother the conscious of Vegas and but
the chef schmitzer in his valinera
though the valinera of the chef
schmitzer was that this is the way it
should be. The the [ __ ] gonnagoinem
the [ __ ] was about plukta of the chef
schmitzer the
>> [laughter]
>> the [ __ ] was a learning with the see
this kivegen the schmitzer the schmitzer
was the varshiver off the schmitzer his
valinera was just the opposite. His
valinera was the other way around. The
end of the day they both they arrived in
the same exact place. They both arrived
they met up because at the end of the
day they had rias. Ironically the
schmitzer did not have a ria from the of
the schmitzer had a ria in the floor
from the of the schmitzer
but again it's a fascinating discussion
a little bit of a mind teaser. We'll
save the second rate by next time for
tomorrow and we'll stop here.