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Chulin 37
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Today's daf is chulin daf lamed zayin.
And we are at the mishnah, three lines
from the top of daf lamed zayin amud
aleph. Today's daf is being learned as a
zechus refuah sheleimah for Chava Miriam
bas Malkah Freda and Shloimah ben
Chayalah.
So, today's daf is a return to the
regular program, which is the halachois
of shechitas chulin. Specifically,
the topic of today's daf and tomorrow's
daf is going to be the very unique
yet critical law of hashochetes
hamisukenus.
This is a halacha that's discussed in
Yoreh De'ah siman yud zayin and it's
something that if you're a shochet is
a very very important area of halacha.
So, what exactly is a misukenus?
An animal that is very very sick. It's
so sick, it's literally ot ot. It's
holding by dying. Could you shecht an
animal like that? Or could you not
shecht an animal like that? Now, we know
that once that animal dies, it's an
aveilah, you can't eat it. We also know
that there's a concept of a treifah. A
treifah is an animal that has one of 18
wounds
where
>> [snorts]
>> we assume that because of this wound
that it has or because of this illness
that it has, it will not be able to live
beyond a certain period of time. That
too, the Torah says very very clearly
it's a lo saseh and not allowed to eat.
A misukenus is not an aveilah, it's
still alive. A misukenus is not a
treifah, it doesn't have one of these
simanim, but at the same time, it's
gravely ill. And
whether or not one can shecht a
misukenus is a discussion. Now, spoiler
alert, the halacha is you're allowed to
shecht a misukenus. Not only are you
allowed to shackle Mr. Kenneth, you're
allowed to shackle Mr. Kenneth with
stating that you have to be very, very
careful that when you shackle Mr.
Kenneth, the animal was alive throughout
the entire course of the shrita. Because
if it died at some point during the
shrita, and you could see why an animal
that's a Mr. Kenneth maybe
would die, if it died in that situation,
not the shrita, or that is not the
shrita, then it's going to be a navela,
and obviously it's not something that
you'd be able to eat. So, again, a
shackle Mr. Kenneth at some is not a
problem. A navela is a problem at some.
A treif is a problem at some. A Mr.
Kenneth is not a problem at some.
Stating that a Mr. Kenneth is a sugia
because of the matias that it's
that it's almost dying, and therefore
there's a good chance that the shrita is
going to expedite the process, and it
may not survive through the end shrita.
And if it doesn't survive through the
end of the shrita, you can have yourself
an issue. Hence, there's a sugia
regarding a a shackle Mr. Kenneth. Now,
we just again gave away the fact that a
shackle Mr. Kenneth
is okay. In fact, you're even allowed to
shackle it with a treif as long as you
know for sure that it survived
the shrita, or at least it's not
supposed to survive the shrita, but it
survived until the end of the shrita.
But again, it's taking for granted that
we know the end of the story. Fact,
we're going to have a whole block of
mara now, which is going to focus
primarily on make a taste of Mr. Kenneth
is what the if an avila is also in a
treif is also maybe a Mr. Kenneth is
also as well. Either way,
a gishmaka, little bit of a windy with a
nice agada to finish daf tucked away
over here in Mr. Kenneth in the world of
daf and that have an asterisk, this is
definitely one of them. So, Mr.
A shackle Mr. Kenneth if somebody
shackle Mr. Kenneth and
said I should the be out
>> If you don't see any movement during the
course of the shrita, you have to assume
that the animal died. It didn't survive
the shrita and as a result it's going to
be an available. What is considered
movement?
So if it jerks its hand and its foot
both, then it's going to be a sign that
it was alive. Otherwise not. Now, when
does this have to happen? The two
says by the
It has to happen at the end of the
shrita. Cuz if it happens in the
beginning of the shrita, the middle of
the shrita, maybe it died after that
before the end of the shrita. So if at
the conclusion of the shrita it was
the end of the regular, that means it
survived the shrita and in that case
it's going to be okay. Otherwise
it's
that it did not survive.
says
He says that you don't need that it
should be
but it's enough if it coughs up blood.
So if the animal coughs up blood
apparently if you're a farmer you would
understand exactly what this means or if
you're a shochet. But either way, if
it's that would be okay.
If somebody did a shrita at night
meaning he an animal that was a
at night and because it was night time
he couldn't really see and he wasn't
able to tell whether it was
whether it did what it was supposed to
do. So if he wakes up in the morning and
he sees that the walls of the shrita are
all bloody it's going to be kosher. Cuz
that's a sign that it coughed up blood.
It's because
that is enough and as long as there's a
sign that it was a then it's going to be
fine.
They say
or or regular. As long as it's
its hand or its foot and
said
it doesn't have to be both but rather
other other either one is going to be
okay
or as long as it weighs its tail that
itself is going to be fine. So again,
what's the first part of the mission
is fine as long as you know that it
survived up until the end of the
how do you know if it survived there are
different
what's a Simmon? It's a lucky stand up I
shouldn't go and say that
it's hand and it's foot probably as we
saw also had we as die it's enough if it
goes up blood the same say
or
or if it even weighs its tail that's
going to be okay says the mission
these are the two both for a
and for a
with one exception and that is
the way
of the
that was
the other the matter of the
if it didn't bring it back so it wasn't
it stuck its hand out but it didn't
bring its hand back so that's going to
be
that's not a sign of life to the country
that's actually a sign of death and she
says that these
right when they're would leave it would
somehow have its hand jerk out in one
direction so the definition of
as it relates to
is it has to be
that's in contrast to
where if it's
that in of itself would be you see for
you don't need for it to go both ways
right you don't have to do
but for
where it's then you do because
the fact that it would be
it's actually more of a sign that it was
it's muscle
than it is that it was still alive says
the mission one last
when is all this true
that what that an animal has to be
at according to
die and according to
or
or I should
>> This is all true.
If however this animal was
this was a gazinta ox.
Even if it doesn't have any
going to be fine. The only time this is
true is if you know the animal was a
there's no
that a has to look out at the time of
the and to make sure that it's doing one
of these
there's no such thing. It's
if you
with the animal in the words of the
mission is
it's then and only then that this is
going to be true.
So
from the mission it's clear that you're
allowed to
right and
it's a question. Stating that you just
have to make sure that you check off all
the boxes and that it survived the
what's the definition of surviving the
big is known.
In the mission places speaks out that
[snorts] the mission starts
and
and if that's the case it would sound a
little bit like this whole
of
a mission is is it but it's not true I
feel it's sorry. That really you're
allowed to
even
so why then does it say
says this I'll tell you why because in
the event that it's not
you have
in the event it's not
etc. etc. Then it's going to be possible
so the only reason we're saying
because there's a
component of a mission and that is if it
doesn't show a sign of life then it's
not just
it's not okay even
it's manage to have been in a way that
you're not going to be able to eat it
but to the extent that you were able to
do it right you're allowed to and that's
why
and that's why this is a mission is a is
because even though it says in the
the whole
is in the event that it didn't play out
exactly the way it was supposed to play
out. Says the
how do you know
how do you know that a
is like even
how do you know that as long as it shows
a sign of life you're allowed to
says the
how do you know it's or you might think
that it's zero why would you assume it's
I'll tell you why I would assume that
it's
because the says
this is one of the many in the
end of
talks about the food you're allowed to
eat food you're not allowed to eat and
the following is the
that you're allowed to eat and we learn
from there
not just
like a
but also
life
an animal that's going to live that's
not a
you're allowed to live which is higher
but an animal that doesn't have the
ability to live because again it's
you're not allowed to eat
and being that
is not able to live so that's why I
would think it's as the begins it's
analysis of the a little counter
intuitively that is
we might
might why would you think it's
why would you think it's because it
because it says in the it says
and based on that
you would think
that an animal that can't live you
actually are not allowed to eat I can
tomorrow wants to know how is it that
you know that a
is something that's truth is speaks out
that this
that we should learn from
that maybe
is based on the
you should know that that is a real
it stands
it's
says that
that
is motar. So it's a higher to
is a real drasha, but it's discussing
the unique class of treifa. So this hava
mina that I would have thought the
missoukenis is also because it says
it's not such a wild hava mina because
even the mascona is a real drasha.
Albeit it's negaya treifa. It's not
negaya a missoukenis. It's cashes
treifa can't live a missoukenis can't
live. So maybe missoukenis is marba even
a missoukenis. Not from the mishni it
says
a missoukenis as long as it showed a
sign of life. Meaning as long as it
didn't die it's going to be motar. And
it says even
so the cashe is missoukenis mimai the
shaya. And from here until the end of
the daf until about 10 lines from the
bottom of daf
amud bet. The gemara is going to attempt
to answer this question. And what we'll
see over the course of the daf is the
gemara is going to make several
attempts,
a few failed attempts, but regardless
the whole avoyda of the daf is going to
be missoukenis mimai the shaya. Zog the
gemara. Attempt number one. It says in
the Torah
it could be from the fact that it says
in the Torah thou shall not eat an
aveila. The
is that in and of itself not a raya that
you're allowed to eat a missoukenis.
What is a missoukenis because if you're
going to tell me that you're not allowed
to eat a missoukenis has to be a zero.
That means the animal before it becomes
an aveila when it was in a state of
missoukenis, right? This is a very
important conceptualization that we have
to get at the onset of the daf. And that
is every animal before it dies is a
missoukenis. As a matter of fact we're
going to see by the end of the daf that
even an animal that was killed from
behind in one shot
when it wasn't looking, it was
blindsided, even then there's an
assumption that right the moment before
it died it was in a state of
missoukenis. So every aveila is presumed
to have been a misukenes prior to the
fact that it became a nevelah. So, time
is the gemara, if that's the case, then
why does the Torah have to say nevelah
lo yis'acha? If every misukenes is
anyways assur, that means before the
animal became a
nevelah, it was already assur because of
a misukenes. The yisur of the misukenes
are serial. Let's see in the inside cuz
if you're going to tell me that a
misukenes is assur, hash me serial. If
it was assur me like how you used to me
buy it, that certainly is going to be
assur like how you used to me buy it.
Rashi just adds that if a misukenes is
assur, there's no way to have even a
hava mina that when it dies it should
become mutar. You know why? Because a
yisur lehechana aslah.
B'meipoka b'misas Rashi. Misah can't
remove the assur. So, if a misukenes is
already
assur, then it's for sure going to
retain that assur when it's not a
misukenes, but already uh crossed over.
When it's already not alive. Because
there's no way that the misah is going
to be matter, right? In Yevamos misas
matter in this case.
Right? These ideas of misah being
matter. The misah can't be matter this
issue of misukenes. It has uh absolutely
no avonah. And if that's the case from
the fact that the Torah said that a
nevelah is assur, must be that a
misukenes is really mutar. But the
gemara says maybe not. The gemara is
going to throw out a very wild
suggestion. The dilma nevelah misukenes.
Maybe a nevelah and a misukenes is
really the same thing. Meaning, maybe
a misukenes is assur. The kashas of
misukenes is assur, so why do you need
to tell me that a nevelah is assur?
Maybe when I told you a nevelah is
assur, I was really talking about a
misukenes. They mean a misukenes and a
nevelah one and the same. Meaning, we
take for granted that a nevelah is a
dead animal. If they say maybe a an
nevelah is an animal that's a a
misukenes. But the gemara says like so
good I think he can't suggest that. Why?
Because it's because it's a mefurash
pasuk. It says b'chiyomus min hab'heimah
asher helo chem lo achlah. Hanogeia
b'nevelasah. V'chiyomus min hab'heimah
asher helo chem lo achlah. Right?
Emphasis on the chiyomus. And then it
fears ice hanogeia b'nevelasah. on the
So, you see what's in a
is an animal that dies.
See clearly that that's not the way it
is. You see that an animal is first
considered an after it dies. So, again,
if an animal is first considered an
after it dies, and it was a
So, why does the Torah have to tell me
typically,
typically, that it was awesome anyways
before it became an
from the
because of the fact that it was a Oh, it
must be is right. Here's your right.
Maybe an and the same thing. Now, who is
to speak out that this
does not mean what
meant a minute ago because we already
knocked that out. When we said a minute
ago
that was the wild
that maybe an is a
The master is not true. It's a possible
in the Torah almost. So, we know that's
not the case. So, what do we mean an
an an
What we mean over here is that it could
be every
really has an
An an
is the same thing. But, an an an looked
in an
And you're right. Every single
is awesome even without the
because of the fact that it says
that you eat.
Okay. Well, if that's the case, then why
did the Torah have to tell me an is
awesome? That was the original premise
of the If it's anyways awesome an
So, that this is not going away when it
dies. So, it's going to be awesome as
well. I'll tell you why. Because maybe
when the animal's alive and it's only an
it's not an yet, all you're going to
have is an What's that you eat?
That's a love above
I say. And then I mean
And then when it dies, you're going to
have the love an And
then you're going to actually have the
actual love. So, the Gamorah says I
don't think you learn anything from
treif. Okay. The Gamorah wants to know
how you know misukenes what it says the
Gamorah. Maybe the makor is I'm going to
learn it from the velo. Where do you see
it by the velo? From the fact that the
Torah says that in the velo there's also
must be a misukenes what it says if it's
a misukenes also then why do I need to
tell me that the in the velo is also it
was also anyways before it became in the
velo. It was also when it was a
misukenes. And there's no having me to
think that maybe when it's a misukenes
it's also when it comes in the velo when
it dies then it becomes mutas I need to
tell you that in the velo is also.
Because if it has the issur when it's
alive the misah not changing that. So
it's anyways also so what do I need this
for? And the Gamorah had the
an initial reaction to reject and say
that I don't maybe in the velo is really
a misukenes maybe it's one in the same.
And to the extent that it's one in the
same so [ __ ] it.
The misukenes is in the velo. So from
the fact that the Torah asked in the
velo you have no raya that misukenes is
what the [ __ ] it. If anything the Torah
is telling you
that
the misukenes is also to say the law.
But the Gamorah said it can't be because
we know in the velo it's dafka when it
died. But the Gamorah says okay I feel
like here there's no raya. And the
reason is because maybe it's true every
in the velo really is a misukenes but at
the same time the reason the Torah gave
me the issur misah in the velo is to be
marbeh lo issur as I say. When it's
alive you have lo issur chaya and when
it dies you still have lo issur chaya
because that's not going away. But when
it dies it's more chomer than when it
was only alive misukenes which makes a
lot of sense. So then already you're
going to have the issur love. So could
be there's an issur misukenes and that's
an issur as I say
because it's still bechayim so all you
have is the issur as I say. Once it dies
you retain the issur as I say like the
Gamorah holds in chashman but at the
same time you also have a lo issur as I
say. The bottom line is you can't learn
the misukenes is mutar from the velo. So
if you can't learn it from the velo
what's the next best thing? Says the
Gamorah
maybe midama rachmana treif lo issur
chaya. Maybe we could learn it from the
treif
the Torah had to tell me that a treif is
also
must be a
must be
a
must be a
that is not missing anything. Is also
treif for me by you then certainly a
treif then certainly a treif which is
missing should be a problem.
The Torah assumes that a treif is a
plus. A treif is a plus.
Just like a
is a is a
is a
because it's in a state of
a treif is the plus
but in addition to that a treif is also
something. There's a neck if it's
missing an
as we'll see next week when we start a
plus. So the treif has everything the
has and some which means that if a
is also a treif is also that's the case
maybe from the treif I should
also because everything in the
plus is a
treif paper weight yet the treif is the
treif
but the Torah says one second
I think we get the hang of this already
I knew treif I knew
maybe
a treif and a plus are really one and
the same. In fact Rashi says could be
the word treif is
plus
plus. Rashi teaches this even into the
word could be that's what the word
means. Could be it means it's in a a
state of
okay. Now if that's the case then why
does the Torah have to tell me twice
that a
is also
and then the
second time the latter all of us
once to tell me there's an
and the other one to tell me that
there's an
but the Torah says if that's the case
why then did the Torah have to tell me
that it's an also
I say, if when it's alive already it has
a low say I say
then certainly
after it dies it's going to have a a low
say I say. In other words, if you're
going to tell me that every single is
really a treif or
and
is also below I say I say because it
says
and below I say is the treif or But
here's the point. Every single is a
treif or
Every treif is a treif or it's one and
the same. I say treif or
well that means every single treif or
before it became a treif or already had
an low say I say because we said every
single treif or was a
before it became wasn't a treif or in
the biggest sense of what a treif or is
but it's a
and in this
treif or is a treif or that means every
before it became a treif or was a treif
or which means it already had an low say
I say. Well, if that's the case why did
they have to tell me this in a treif or
I say that really appreciate this
over the previous treif or because the
fear of the had already asked the
question that if you're going to tell me
is also so why do I need a treif or
right we wanted to prove
is multiple in the treif or was twice
with the same
but the second time that the was it
right maybe
what the was saying was that it could be
it's true every treif or anyways also me
treif or
but I want [laughter] to be a low say I
say is the
that if you're going to tell me
is A TREIF OR
IS IF YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME I know
I know treif or I understand why the
would tell me that the is also twice
once by say but once below I say but now
I don't understand again why they tell
me to tell me this
because the treif or
always is going to be now a missile
candace a treif because missile candace
and a treif are the same thing and you
always have a missile candace before
you're on a vailo WHICH MEANS ME CHAIM
YOU already have the loisa save a say
and again that loisa save a say is off
the hill of the rash which he speaks
like every single thing we're saying
now. That loisa save a say is not going
anywhere after the animal DIES WHICH
MEANS BAR HAMISA FIGHT TO HAVE THE LOISA
save a say. So why do I need this in a
vailo? The gomorrah said I have this in
a vailo even if missile candace is also
to be machadish a loisa save a hamisa.
I'm going to have the loisa save a
hamisa in fact I would have the loisa
SAVE ME CHAIM. WHAT'S THE LOISA SAVE A
TREIF BECAUSE in this side of the world
we want to say that really missile
candace and a treif but the gomorrah is
doiche. The gomorrah says fest kasha but
the gomorrah says we don't know hino in
a vailo hino treif
hino missile candace. Now what does this
mean? Hino in a vailo hino treif hino
missile candace. This means what the
gomorrah meant when it said earlier hino
in a vailo hino missile candace the
second time the way the tais spoke at.
Not that it's all the same thing but
rather maybe this place for the issur a
vailo this place for the issur treif and
this place for the issur missile
candace. And why would I need all this
wordiness for lav a lo which is lav and
a say and lav and a say to tell me that
there's two lav and an a say. In other
words could be a treif and a missile
candace are really the same thing. And
me chaim you have the a say of loisa
chaya shitochlu of missile candace and
the loisa say of treif.
And after it dies you fight to get out
the same loisa say it's not going
anywhere but now that it died it's it's
worse than just being missile candace
and therefore now that it died we want
to throw on a second loisa say. And if
we're going to throw on the second loisa
say that's what the issur a vailo is
going to be. But the bottom line is you
can't prove
from the fact that there's an issur
treif that what? That missile candace is
muttar even though in
svara it makes perfect sense to say that
if a
missile candace is ossur I don't need
the issur treif so if the torah told me
an issur treif must be the missile
candace is muttar
the reason you can't prove it is because
maybe a treif is a missile candace. In
fact it could be when the torah told you
a treif is ossur the torah was telling
you not misokaneis is muttar, that was
telling misokaneis is also that it's
more common than you even realize. It's
not just an asiyah of misokaneis you
should know, there's
there's a lo asiyah as well. So, the
Gemara says
I'll prove it to you from
somewhere else. And really what the
Gemara is going to do in this alma is
just to set this up. The Gemara is just
going to prove from alma that
a treif is not a misokaneis. And as long
as we prove that a treif is in itself
not a misokaneis, well, then that means
that from the fact that the Torah told
me that a treif must be a misokaneis is
muttar. Meaning atzum is a treif is
biggest raya in the world of misokaneis
is muttar. It's like a checkmate raya.
Why have tell me misokaneis treif is
also treif of it's always a misokaneis.
It must be a misokaneis is muttar me.
Stop going and ask one of those. But if
you think about this logically, it's all
pashut. Somebody stopped you on the
street and he says, "What do you think?
You're learning in there? You're month
and change it. You think a misokaneis is
muttar also?" Really you should make a
bee line to treif. You should say, "What
do you mean if a treif is ALSO THAT A
TREIF misokaneis is not a treif?" That's
very good. And that's mamesh what the
Gemara is doing right now. The Gemara is
just countering it with this
interesting hava amina and that is maybe
a treif really is a misokaneis. Like
Rashi said, the treif misokaneis is
maybe we got it all wrong. And it's
really that that the Gemara is going to
disprove. And once the Gemara disproves
that, so then it's without question the
most obvious and rational approach to
this and that is from the fact that
there's a parsha of treif, that would be
a raya that misokaneis is muttar. The
Gemara says alma I could learn it from
here. It says in the Torah of avelah,
the chelev of treif is also
also treif. So, there's a possuk in the
Torah that says
that the chelev of avelah chelev of
treif is also also treif, which means
it's not tamei.
Additionally,
there's an issur Now, we know the chelev
of every animal was also We're focusing
on the second part.
Yet the Torah has the chelev of an
avelah and the chelev of a treif is also
But
so
Rashi and they said
Why did the Torah tell me that the
chelev of a neveilah and the chelev of a
treifoh is ossur? Isn't chelev always
ossur? Why? Because it's a neveilah
treifoh, you would have thought it's
different. So Chazal said, I'll tell you
why. Yoveh is a neveilah, Yochol is a
chelev. Yoveh is a treifoh, Yochol is a
chelev. The Torah was coming to tell me
that the issur of a neveilah is a
treifoh achal even on the issur chelev.
You would have thought that it's not.
Why? Ein issur chelev issur chametz. One
the possuk, this is a makor in the
Torah, this is like mama's ground zero
of the sugah of issur chelev issur. From
the fact that the Torah says the chelev
of a neveilah, chelev of a treifoh is
ossur, so issur chametz issur chelev
issur. Okay, so what does that have to
do with ossur? Here's the cheshbon. If
you're going to tell me treifoh you're
going to tell me treifoh ain't a
missukenis. If you're going to tell me
that a treifoh is really a missukenis,
so if every single treifoh is a
missukenis, then the lifted brachman on
the chelev of a neveilah you also lo
cham lochoh. Then the Torah could have
said that the chelev of a neveilah is
not tamei, you also lo cham lochoh, and
then just say, we're going to focus on
the next part, that the chelev treifoh
lo yisochlu. That you're not allowed to
eat the chelev of a treifoh. In other
words, you shouldn't have to tell me the
chelev neveilah lo yisochlu. You should
just tell me the chelev treifoh lo
yisochlu. Or b'milah acheres, tell me
that the issur of treifoh is chal on the
issur chelev.
And I'll know for sure that the issur of
a neveilah is also lo chal on the issur
chelev. Why? V'anachnu meimina because
I'm going to make the following
cheshbon. Uma meichayin ossi issur
treifoh chayalah issur chelev? Maduch,
when the animal is a treifoh, which in
this point of the Gemara we're assuming
is a missukenis, which means the animal
is still alive. It's just in a grave
situation. It's in a state of sakanah.
We're saying that what? That afilu
hachi, the issur of eating a missukenis
is so chomer that it's chal on issur.
And that's why issur treifoh chal on
issur chelev. Well, if that's the case,
ach amisa, when it died already, when
it's for sure more chomer than the
missukenis, meibaya? Does it Does it go
without saying? Eilum midichas rachman
in neveilah, from the fact that the
Torah even though it's said already that
it's a treifas and it's a cheilev, still
felt that it needed to speak out that
the issur of an aveilah is michal the
treif
so kenes must be that the treif is not a
misukenes. The way Rashi learns the
Gemara.
The Gemara is saying that if you're
going to tell me that a treif is a
misukenes, that means every nevelah is
b'chalal min a treif. Right, we spoke
that already. This is one of the themes
that goes through the entire daf. Every
nevelah is b'chalal min a treif
misukenes.
If a misukenes and a treif are the same
thing, that means that every nevelah is
b'chalal min a treif as well. Now,
really if a treif and a misukenes are
not the same thing, then that's not a
true statement that every nevelah is
b'chalal min a treif. It's It's
different.
A treif is something that has some
deficiency, has some wound. A nevelah is
dead. Now,
a treif might be in a better matzev than
a nevelah,
but at the same time it's not the same
thing. A misukenes by definition is that
it's ot ot.
OT OT IS LESS than you arrived, right?
So, if a treif is a misukenes, then
liktin yed in a nevelah treif. If a
treif is not a misukenes,
then you can't say liktin yed in a
nevelah treif. Even though there is a
b'chalal min a treif
element, even if treif is not a
misukenes in relation to a nevelah,
because at the end of the day the treif
as bad as it is, it's far to live as
opposed to a nevelah is dead, but at the
same time it's not mamish punklich the
same thing. And that's the kashya of the
Gemara like the way Rashi learns it. And
that is the Gemara is saying that if
you're going to tell me that every
single treif is a misukenes, then
b'chalal nevelah like the treif. So,
once the Torah told me the cheilev treif
that is a listener as it relates to
treif min a nevelah, because the
Neveilah is more chamur from the fact
that the Torah had to speak on Neveilah,
that's a rayo that you don't say the
chamur say amona treif of the Neveilah.
And you know why? Because a treif is not
a misukenes. A misukenes is the chamur
say amona. But a treif is not a
misukenes. And therefore there's already
mokem to make a treif so that even
THOUGH I KNOW TREIF is chamur, maybe
Neveilah not, and vice versa. And that's
why the Torah had to tell me
the Torah had no choice but but to go
ahead and both
to tell me both things. But the bottom
line is time is the gemara that from the
fact that the Torah had to tell me the
chamur of Neveilah, even though it's
telling me the chamur of treif, that's a
rayo that treif is not a misukenes. It's
a rayo that treif is not the chamur say
amona of the Neveilah. And if that's the
case, that a treif is not a misukenes,
chud sure the logical approach to the
sugah of the din. That's you want to
know mechech taysim misukenes of sharia.
What do you mean from the fact that the
Torah said a treif is also isn't that a
rayo that a misukenes must be mutar?
Toises by the way brings the sham of Ben
Toma hold it from sham of the gemara.
And the reason Toises disagrees with
Rashi's pshat he has a few reasons, but
the main reason I should negate all the
cheshbon of the gemara that we just
spoke out is because at the end of the
day Toises holds that just like a
misukenes is the chamur say amona of
Neveilah, treif should also be the
chamur say amona of treif. That's
Toises. One of Toises kashas ain sham.
Top Toises over here in lamud zayin amud
aleph. But the bottom line is like the
gemara maskif from my brother Rashi. My
brother Rashi has the kasha on this.
Don't blow me away with the chaim of the
treif of the misukenes. I don't think
this is a good enough rayo. I'll tell
you really a treif is a misukenes. Ooh,
the chamur. What was your time in
Neveilah? Kos rachmana litzlan. If a
treif is a misukenes, that means every
single treif is really included in a
Neveilah. So once I know that treif is
chal litzur, certainly Neveilah should
be chal litzur. So Neveilah the kos
rachmana litzlan. I'll tell you why.
L'chach Neveilah they ask him a koach
misukenes. What do you tell me? Every
single Neveilah is a misukenes? Right.
What we spoke out at the onset of at daf
that this is always the way it is. Here
in this point of the Gemara, the Gemara
starts entertaining differently. By the
way, Tosafot Aleph makes a chishbonus
that if the Gemara is not 100% sure
about it, all right, all right, here, I
think we have to revisit Amud Aleph
because again, we explained Amud Aleph
based on this axiomatic premise. But if
you tell me that's a poshit da'var Amud
Beis, the Gemara is not sure about it,
so what? On Amud Aleph, the Gemara was
sure, now the Gemara is not sure. It
sounds like the Gemara over here didn't
firmly establish this as a principle.
Let's go revisit Amud Aleph. That's one
of the Tosafot in Amud Aleph. But either
way, says the Gemara, again, let me I'll
tell you a treifah is a misukenes. I
what's the kasha? The kasha was that if
a treifah is a misukenes, then ba'chlal
nevelah looked at treifah. So nevelah
because of rachmana litzlan. Again, it's
negiah nevelah that wasn't a misukenes.
Eicha dami? What's eicha dami? So shas
gistera. That's your eicha dami. Your
eicha dami is where the thing was
chopped into two pieces. It was chopped
in half.
And the halacha is, that's where it's
going to be negiah. But again, Rashi has
a very nice kinech. Rashi says, if you
remember, we learned the Gemara in daf
kuf aleph Amud Aleph, that the halacha
is aso gistera nevelah. What was the
chidush of that halacha? Even if it's
mefageses, even if it's alive, it's
still considered dead. Which means then,
which means that when it's in the state
of misukenes, it's actually considered
dead. So it never really has a matzev of
misukenes while it's alive. So aso
gistera doesn't have a matzev of
misukenes michayan because you chopped
it, and when YOU CHOPPED IT, EVEN WHEN
IT WAS ALIVE, IT WAS considered dead.
You see, it was already considered
nevelah. So here's my eicha dami, so you
don't have a misukenes. But the Gemara
says not true, you absolutely have a
misukenes part of the capital of the
rule. But there's one second before it
became a full gistera. Before it was
raiv gistera, so to speak, at that
point, there was for sure a moment, and
it's for that reason, this is where it's
going to be negiah. Bottom line is,
every single case of nevelah
is a misukenes, which then would mean
that if a treifah is not
every single treifa is Messiah
and
so if the Torah tells me
by treifa there's no need to tell me by
from the fact that the Torah told me by
must be treifa is not a
if treifa is not a
that's my that is
what because if
also why would the Torah have to tell me
that
treifa is also by the way if this is
really bothering you Tosefos asks that
one second why don't we say that it's
true Tosefos is also the question is why
did the Torah have to tell me treifa
because treifa
and to be
say that in the event you're a treifa
there's a this is one of the questions
over here and
this is extra credit for today's either
way
I have a third this
is actually
how I know
is
the
how I know treifa
there's two going on here the
how I know that
is also because
if not lay more this same limit from
where we prove that treifa love is
that might actually be a that
is also because what the treifa and
treifa
very wordy
the treifa just say the
treifa why did the Torah have to the
word treifa a second time to teach me
that it's regarding the treifa that
it's regarding the treifa where we say
that the
and the
are the same the of a treifa the is also
and the the is also right the is also
because it's treifa the is also because
it's
is
so you have the whole animal is also but
the is also because of the
and the and the treifa and the treifa is
also because of the of the
the
Rashi says the
the extra mention of the word is coming
to teach me that there's something
similar to a treif, sh'cheil b'chalik
mib'sara. We are the possul would be
muttar and the cheilev would be assur.
The eizoy zum misukenes. And that's the
misukenes. So you have a DRASHA IN THIS
POSSUK. IRONICALLY, it's coincidentally
the same possuk that we were just
handling for a whole different reason,
from a different angle. We were just
handling this possuk to teach me that
treif lav heino misukenes. Now we
actually, believe it or not, found our
makor.
What do you think? Lo and behold, from
this actual possuk. But the bottom line
is this is another source to the ikkur
halacha
that a misukenes is muttar.
So again, how many makors do we have so
far that misukenes is muttar? First the
Gemara thought to learn from the veil,
the Gemara rejected that. Then the
Gemara said, learn it from treif, which
stands, right? It was a long scenic
route until we got there, but at the end
of the day, after the fact that the
Torah said treif is assur, that's a raya
misukenes must be muttar. Or could be
it's learnt out from a a possuk tucked
away. The cheilev of the veil, of a
cheilev of treif, a cheilev of treif is
actually tucked away the treif, the
cheilev and the possul is assur as
opposed to misukenes which is similar to
the treif. Over there that's not going
to be the same. Eibay eima the Gemara
says, finally, I have another makor.
Meihacha, could be it's learnt out from
the following possuk and this is the
d'vara goda.
The daf ends really on an exhale note.
It's a possuk in Y'chezkel perek dal
possuk yud alef. The Israel Shem, maybe
in the next daf or two we're going to
revisit this possuk. But high level,
what's going on over here is Kodesh
Boruchu comes to Y'chezkel and he tells
him that I want you to eat the things
that are disgusting. Tzoah. If you go
through the psukim over there, it's it's
pretty clear what's going on. And
Y'chezkel turns to Kodesh Boruchu and
oimer he says, "Aha." Right? That's like
a groan. He says, "Hashem Elokim, hinei
nafshi lo im'a tum'ah.
I never
defiled my soul. U'neveilah u'treifah lo
achalti me orei'ah v'ad ata. I never ate
neveilos and treifos from the time I was
a youth up until now. V'lo vav b'fi
basar piggul. I never ate piggul.
>> [snorts]
>> So you're going to ask me now to do
something so disgusting and disgraceful,
I don't think that's fair.
>> [snorts]
>> So, the Gamorah goes and the Gamorah
teaches, what did Yechezkel mean when he
said I didn't do all these things? He
didn't have Shulay Metuma. What did he
mean Shulay Harti Bayom? I never had a
hero of Arayas during the day. Lovingly
Tumah Sh'balayla, which would have led
me to Tumah Sh'keriya at night.
U'N'veila T'reifa Lo Achalti M'Ura. What
does that mean? Doesn't mean that I
didn't eat N'veilos T'reifos because
obviously didn't eat N'veilos T'reifos.
Rather, what he meant was Shulay Achalti
Basar Kois Kois. I never ate Basar Kois
Kois. So, Kois is an Aramaic term for
Sh'chita. Rashi says Shachut Shachut.
Shulay Achalti M'Beheima Sh'hu
M'Sukenes. Meaning, I never ate from the
meat that was a M'Sukenes. When an
animal is a M'Sukenes, the Shochet is
screaming Shach'teh Shach'teh. You know
why? Because if it dies as an Aveila, it
loses a lot of value. So, Chaper Ayin,
do a quick Sh'chita before the animal
dies. I never ate from an animal where
the Shochet was screaming Kois Kois.
V'Lo Achalti Basar Pig. What does that
mean? Shulay Achalti M'Beheima Sh'hu
M'Chukak. I never ate from an animal
that needed Chaylas Chocham. If a
Chocham made a Paskin on it, I never ate
from Shmuel Bar Nachman.
Shulay Achalti M'Beheima Sh'hu
M'Nachnas. I never ate from a Beheima
that didn't have the Nachnas Kuna from.
What's that have to do with you? You
have to give Nachnas Kuna. So, Rashi
says because he was a Kohen. So, because
he was a Kohen, so he could have averted
it. I feel like he was Machnis. So, the
Gamorah says like this. As it relates to
what Yechezkel meant when he said
U'N'veila T'reifa Lo Achalti.
And the Gamorah teaches that what he
meant to say was that I never ate from a
an animal that the Shochet was screaming
Kois Kois.
What was Yechezkel being M'Shaveya
himself with?
Bishlama, if you're going to tell me
that it's Mutar to eat from such an
animal, meaning M'Sukenes is Mutar, I
don't have a say to Yechezkel. That's
the Chidush of Yechezkel.
But if you're going to tell me it's
Assur, my R'vusa to Yechezkel.
Meaning, all these things that Yechezkel
is saying he didn't do must be on some
level Davar Chidush. And if that's the
case,
the Gamorah wants to know what's the
hidush that you didn't eat from a
beheima mesukenes. Oh, must be cuz a
beheima mesukenes is mutar. Oh, by the
way, must be it's even mutar
l'chatchila, which is why it's a hidush
that you Chaskol, right, didn't want to
go to it. But the bottom line is must be
that
basar mesukenes is mutar and if that's
the case, here's your eibes eimus and
dritemo. Here's your raya to the fact
that mesukenes is real. Let's do a
seacom. The topic of the daf was a
mesukenes. A mesukenes is an animal
that's very very sick. Not a treifa, but
it's an animal that's very very sick.
The mishna says "A sheches das a
mesukenes, as long as it shows a sign of
life." What does it mean to show the
sign of life? It three shitos of tanam
in the mishna, but the point is it was
mefarches either yad v'regel or yad or
regel, wagged its tail, it coughed up
blood, whatever it is. But the bottom
line is if it showed a sign of life,
that means it survived the shechita or
at least until when the shechita is
supposed to kill it. So then the halacha
is you're going to be allowed to eat it.
In fact, Rashi says even though the
mishna says "A sheches", you should know
that this is something that you're even
allowed to go ahead and do l'chatchila.
And the Gemara says "Mesukenes,
me mai deshai?" How do you know it's
asur? The Gemara says "Me mai deshai?"
Why would you think it's asur? I'll tell
you why. Cuz it says "Zeh chaya asher
tochelu", which we know the fiha emes is
referring to treifa. We learn from there
that only an animal that can live you're
allowed to eat. But I don't know, maybe
uh really it includes in a mesukenes.
Meaning the reason we know it's talking
about a treifa cuz we know the MISHNA
SAYS "MESUKENES SHARYA". BUT THE GEMARA
ASKS "ME MAI?" I just want to know I
mean I'm not debating it. I got it. It's
a mishna, it's a stam we we have all the
tanam in Shas Kamara mentioned in this
mishna that are all in agreement with
this halacha. There's no issue with
that. But "Me mai deshai?" What is the
source? Maybe "Zeh chaya asher tochelu"
should teach me that it's really asur.
And the Gemara went through several
attempts. The first one, which was the
failed attempt, and that is the Gemara
said "Maybe I'll learn from the parsha
of neveila." If you're going to tell me
that a mesukenes is
also well isn't every nevela a mesukenes
before it becomes a nevela? So why does
he have to tell me it isn't a nevela?
But the Gemara after a few twists and
turns says that's that's a kasha because
maybe a nevela is worse than a
mesukenes, which it is, and if that's
the case, the Torah wants to tell you
that in addition to the assei of zeh
shechayasha treifa which the animal has
when it's alive, which is not going
anywhere after it dies, but now this is
going to be a lo saaseh as well. So the
Gemara says you're right, you can't
learn it from the parsha of nevela. But
the Gemara says you know where I could
maybe learn it from? From the parsha of
treifa. If you're going to tell me that
a nevela is that a mesukenes is also, I
need a parsha of treifa before.
Typically, bichlal
treifa litzayer the mesukenes because
every treifa is a mesukenes plus. So if
you're telling me that a mesukenes is
also, why do I need a a parsha of
treifa? And the Gemara
after a whole analysis came out and
said, "You know something? You're right.
You're 100% right. I think we got it. I
think we nailed it." And in fact, that
is the first of the three tirutzim of
the Gemara that ends up
playing out. The long chashma of the
Gemara was the Gemara had a very strong
hava amina that maybe a treifa is a
mesukenes. Again, that's so similar,
it's not so rough to think that they'd
be one and the same. In fact, Rashi says
treifa lo she mesukenes say. So if
that's the case, it would have been a
very strong makom for that to be the
case, but the Gemara proved that's not
the case. And if that's not the case,
you're right. And I mean, this is the
right
The third approach, which was the second
one that stands in the sugia, was we
learn it from the parsha of becheil of
nevela, becheil of treifa, "Lo achal
loisa chlu." It's dafka cheil of treifa
with the cheil of the basar are the
same. But there's something similar to a
treifa. Mahi? The eizo eizu mesukenes,
where it's not going to be that way. And
then finally, the Gemara said, "Could we
learn it from the pasuk of Yichazkel?"
Because Yichazkel tells Hakadosh Baruch
Hu, "You're asking me to eat dvarim
tmei'im. Don't you know I never ate
basar mesukenes?" Now, if he's
bimshabeach himself, so to speak, that I
never ate possum as a chemist. So it's
not matters. It must be that there's no
question in the world that possum is so
careless is mother. You see from here
Missoukenis is Shaya. So at the end of
the day, we have three to roots in that
stand. Either from the fact that treif
is also that's right Missoukenis is
mother, or it's going to have from treif
of treif, or it's going to have from the
possuk in Yachezkal ad confit today. So
just the end
with one aura
related to a shoichet Missoukenis, which
is going to tie into some rate that
we've spoken about recently. I saw in
the heart sphere of Shas
right here in Missachus Chulin
daft lamed ches. It's really on
tomorrow's daft.
And the source of this heart sphere is
really from the Shala Shichu of heart
sphere.
It's in Yoreh De'ah siman tes vov. He
brings a maiseh shihoya kachoya
in the city of Brisk at the time that a
[ __ ] in Reb Chaim Halevi Soloveitchik
was the rov of Brisk. So there was a
maiseh shihoya kachoya. There was a
shoichet
who shechted
an animal.
He shechted right over the animal
perfect. And then he continued and he
shechted the meat basar of the animal
and he did it bish'hiya.
While he shechted the meat basar, the
animal was not mefareches. It didn't
show any sign of life.
So Reb Chaim Halevi said that even
though we know that
if someone is shor b'meat basar the
Shulchan Aruch says we're supposed to be
machmir like the take of the Gemara b'fi
shitas Rashi that shor b'meat tzimmonim
is referring even to the meat basar. But
in this case, when the animal showed no
sign of life at the meat basar, it's
going to be fine. You know why? Said Reb
Chaim, because that's poshit. Once you
shechted right over the animal, at that
point the animal is already a misukenis.
What's the halacha of a misukenis? If
it's mefarches and it shows a sign of
life, well then the halacha is we assume
the animal's alive. If however it's not
mefarches and it doesn't show a sign of
life, we assume the animal is dead. SO
CHAIM, THAT'S POSHIT THAT EVEN RASHI'S
shita of shabbos basar is a teiku is
going to be a problem. That's only if
YOU ASSUME THE ANIMAL'S ALIVE. BUT IF
YOU ASSUME THE ANIMAL is dead, THEN THE
SHABBOS BASAR IS NOTHING. ONCE THE
ANIMAL'S DEAD, IT'S DEAD. THEN FOR SURE
YOU GOT THE RUBA kula al YEDEI DEROY. SO
CHAIM SAID THIS
CHIDDUSH AND THE WHOLE CITY OF BRISK was
tomling about this chiddush. He said
that even though this halacha of shabbos
basar, but at the same time if he was
shabbos basar and the animal wasn't
mefarches, then we're going to look at
it as if it's
as if it died already. If it died
already, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT
THE FACT THAT IT WAS shabbos basar. The
Admor
so Reb Pesach Frank
and his heart ceases
that as much as this chiddush is such a
chiddush with the great Chaim. He said
but I have two problems with this
chiddush. His first problem was as
follows.
Reb Chaim is assuming that when we say
that an animal that's a misukenis and
then it doesn't show a sign of life,
it's not mefarches during the shchita,
the halacha is you're not allowed to eat
it. So Reb Chaim is assuming that the
reason is because we assume that
it's not alive.
We assume that it's not alive. And being
that you assume that it's not alive, to
tell me that it's an avail I'm not
allowed to eat it. Well, if that's the
case, I would assume that
it's not alive to
as well. And therefore if you were
shabbos basar and now you actually want
the animal to have been dead at the
shchita of the animal, I'm going to
assume that it was dead already. SO THE
SHABBOS BASAR
IS NOT GOING TO BE A PROBLEM. So Reb
Pesach is
going to go
maybe the fact that is not a
that it died but maybe a
that it died BUT MAYBE A
YOU HAVE TO BE WORRIED that maybe it
died. So
to go ahead and eat it it's a
so maybe
so we're not going to let you eat it.
BUT TO GO
TO BE
ACCORDING TO RASHI LATER
that the BRINGS IS ALSO
MAYBE
HE SAID THAT
IS GOING TO BE A LOT. AND this is the
So this is what I know what I'm going to
do with the
course that I'm going to also I
think in the future
if the says and it's a quote from the
has
a
lot of people so
I assume
that all
of you get what
I'M SAYING
IT'S THAT'S WHAT I'M COMING FROM THAT
STATE
MEANS IT'S AMAZING. SO IT'S
amazing that the
way it is is itself in a way cooler
because you can't just give a person
there's a lot of people so I assume
that if it's
the animal for sure died even to give a
lot of people that's the case for sure
that
not a lot of people
so
we're going to assume it's dead and if
that's the case it's not going to be a
problem. I think it says it's not so
again. The for sure from the bottom this
is the bottom
but at the same time he says if you take
a look at the
bottom which is very much with why the
said and it's based on the way
it
is you're so positive that the animal
DIED MAYBE IT WASN'T A CUZ IT WASN'T A
HOW COULD THE FACT THAT THE WAY
IT IS DIDN'T DO SOMETHING THAT'S a lot
of people for sure dead but you do
something that could be A POSITIVE NOT
DOING something
is usually not considered a lot of
people right but the bottom line is the
Prima Gadda much is very much with this
kasha and the Prima Gadda says that the
only reason that the Rambam paskins and
the Shulchan Aruch paskins that like him
a lot is because really every single
beheima we know is becheskas issur kayma
achi v'oda l'cha until you know for sure
that it's muttar. And what's the
chazaka? That's machlokes Rashi and
Tosfos. Rashi learns it's the cheskas
eiv min hachai. Tosfos learns it's the
cheskas eiv min ha'eivor. But says the
Prima Gadda it's dafka because b'tzeruf
to the fact that it wasn't a vadai this
is also a cheskas issur. That's why it's
going to be like him a lot. Says
Rabbeinu Pesach like the Prima Gadda,
where it's only b'vadai because of the
cheskas eiv min ha'eivor. You don't have
the cheskas eiv min ha'eivor to be
meikel. So over there b'chada d'ina that
it's not really a vadai. If it's not
REALLY A VADAI, IT COULD be Rab Chaim
Soloveitchik. Again, Rabbeinu Pesach is
not being the party pooper. He's having
a gishmak in the hora just like we're
all having a gishmak in the hora. He
just said as A POSEK HALACHA L'MAISEH
it's not so POSHUT BECAUSE HALACHA
L'MAISEH is not like the Prima Gadda.
And the Prima Gadda says that the only
reason we assume a bitul is vadai is
because it's supported by the cheskas
eiv min ha'eivor. But that's only true
l'achra. That's not going to be true
l'halacha. But then Rabbeinu Pesach says
another hora
which I thought was very interesting.
And that is, he says if you take a look
at the Taz.
The Taz says why is it that if someone's
shechita is okay as
l'fi pirchus a klal ha'reason
available l'like him a lot, right? Such
a sharp lashon, says the Taz. Ha'reason
available d'kim lo l'rabbanan
d'zuna d'tulin nishmasa kodem g'mar
sh'chita.
Because there's a a num d'ina that
before the animal died, for sure or
before the g'mar sh'chita it already
died.
D'kim lo l'rabbanan d'zuna d'tulin
nishmasa kodem g'mar sh'chita. So says
the lashon of the Levush. The vadainess
al
>> [laughter]
>> it chalished k'she hergisha soon as it
it started experiencing the sh'chita the
yotzan nishmasa kodem g'mar sh'chita
already. And for sure its nishama left
before it the conclusion of the schita
the crazy place it.
The task and the crazy place all three
said the same thing. That the
is that before the completion of the
schita it's going to die. Right that's
the question. The question is before the
completion of the schita it's going to
die. If that's the case
what's the prime say? The prime saying
as soon as you do there's no question in
the world at that point it's already
going to be a
there's no at that point that it's
already going to be a
okay so if that's the case if it's
you're going to have a problem. SO
I CAN'T EVEN GO
THE SAYS IT'S A
IT'S
SO YOU SEE IT EVEN GOES
SO
IF YOU IT DOESN'T MATTER cuz you
ARE ON THE WAY. SO
THAT WOULD BE TRUE IF THE TASK and the
and the crazy place it would have said
THAT THE MOMENT YOU START THE IT'S GOING
TO
BUT THEY ALL WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO be
mad IT'S BEFORE THE
IF THAT'S THE case so
maybe when the
started the
when he started was still alive then he
was sure. At that point it wasn't an
available yet. You're right by the time
YOU FINISH THE
FOR SURE IT DIED BUT MAYBE IT WAS SURE
BEFORE IT DIED AND IF THAT'S THE CASE
EVEN IF
IT'S TRUE THE WORKS
AS LONG AS YOU DO WITH THE
but
it only is A
BY THE
BUT BEING THAT HE WAS SURE MAYBE HE WAS
SURE BEFORE THE
AND IF HE WAS SURE BEFORE THE YOU END UP
HAVING a problem. And now
says this is
YOU HAVE TO
THE
NOW WE'RE REALLY GETTING INTO IT. RIGHT
SO TILL NOW WE TALK about the roiven the
mid basra, you have to take the mid
basra gufa with a sakina charifa and
point and ended and you have to go ahead
and you have to shpalt it and you have
to ask yourself, it could be the shav in
mid basra was in the early part of the
mid basra and he didn't die until it was
already roiv ki ilu of the mid basra,
right? [laughter] Until you have the end
of the mid basra and if that's the case,
even if you make the hanacha like the
chaims making which is the spimus lashon
haramba the loik avrim magaden, but at
the same time it's still not so pashut
that this is the way it's going to play
itself out. Either way, this is the
tshuvan atzei that we just read out.
Tcheil v'atzoif, it's short tshuvan.
It's in your yideiya, siman tes vov. The
shoil, by the way, was Rabi Shroil
Velts. He was uh the shoil and um he was
the one who told Rabi Tzvi Pesach about
this maiseh shoyeh kachoyeh with Rabi
Chaim Brisker and inasmuch as it's a
very very gishmak shoyeh lo, but in
halacha l'maiseh, Rabi Tzvi Pesach was
mefaktik very much. It's interesting cuz
Rabi Tzvi Pesach he would do ahead an
incredible koiyach to tell, but when it
came to this, he felt it wasn't so
pashut the kula of Rabi Chaim Brisker,
but I just want to end with one ha'ara
that I saw in the sefer Mishnas Masaches
Chulin and this is from Ha'goiyin Reb
Itamar Garbuz.
And in siman
chof alef, he brings this shmu'a from
Rabi Chaim. He brings it from the
Ha'Tzvi, by the way. So it seems like
the source of this Rabi Chaim is the
Ha'Tzvi. That's where he brings it from.
So he brings Iyin b' Shailos u'Tshuvos
Ha'Tzvi, Rabi Shroil Velts, this maiseh
shoyeh kachoyeh with Rabi Chaim Brisker
and he asks one ha'ara. Again, it's
beyond the scope of what we usually do,
but we just end the hard week with his
ha'ara. But it's really pashut and I
think subconsciously everybody's
thinking this. And that is said
Rabi Itamar Garbuz, I don't understand
the whole Rabi Chaim. I namish don't
understand it.
Sounds so gishmak the divrei picho chaim
v'ruiy adrom l'shomrom. Yeah, but
there's seemingly a big hole in the
cheshbon. You know why? Cuz it was M'vor
and Or'gin Maro that every single
animal, right before it dies, it's
always in a state of Misukenes.
Now, ordinarily, when is an animal
deemed to have been considered dead?
When Roy the Siman Mashachot.
Right? Rubik Akulai. The extra meat
basra is extra credit then it's maybe
called a Moishe of Geria. But as soon as
you go ahead and you shach the Roy,
that's usually when the animal is
considered to have been dead. If the
Gemara said that every single animal
before it dies, it's a Misukenes, it's
poshit that it's shufishit as well. And
suddenly the Gemara said it only
regarding a vailo, but there's no reason
in the world to assume that it would be
different between a vailo and a shrita.
As a matter of fact, if you would think
in svara, it's different between an a
vailo and a
shrita, meaning maybe by the maise
shrita you're not a Misukenes before it
dies, well then you would have a heicha
timsa where you could have an a vailo
that wasn't a Misukenes, which in the
Gemara the Gemara can't be. You know
what the heicha timsa would be? The
heicha timsa would be if someone went
ahead and did a shrita they drosa where
the animal is going to be an a vailo cuz
it's not a proper shrita. And you're
telling me when it's done with a maise
shrita over there. So if you tripped up
on one of the halachas of Moishe MiSina,
then you have to go back and chaza the
Gemara. So it's poshit cuz the Gemara
said there is no heicha timsa where you
have an a vailo that wasn't a Misukenes
prior. That means that just like the
metzius of being a Misukenes before it
becomes an a vailo is true, it's also a
Misukenes before it's a shrita, right?
It's one in the same. So here's the
point. The point is usually the animal
becomes dead when you do Roy of the
Shrita.
The Gemara says you're always a
Misukenes one second before it died.
WHICH MEANS THAT RIGHT BEFORE YOU DID
THE ROY, the animal IS A MISUKENES. IF
FROM CHAIM'S GERACH, EVERY SINGLE TIME
YOU DO THE SHRITA, YOU SHOULD HAVE TO
SEE THE ANIMAL BE M'FARCHIS
WHEN YOU DO THE ROY. CUZ IF IT WASN'T
M'FARCHIS, WELL THAT WOULD MEAN that it
DIED ALREADY WHEN IT WAS in a state of
Misukenes and you never had a PROPER
SHRITA. SO CHAIM made this maydig
chashma. Chaim said that you shup a meat
basra, so I don't have to worry about
it. You know why? Cuz it was a
Misukenes. It means that it wasn't a
fire house, it means it was dead
already. One second. In a regular SHITA,
WHEN YOU CHECK the right of the semen,
at that point, it's already considered a
mesa cuz right makes it into a shita.
Well, if that's the case, it means it
was a missile cannon before the right.
If it's dead before the right, you don't
have a kosher shita. You need it to be a
life that one extra second in order to
tip the scale to make it into a right.
The only way for it to be determined
that it's alive is if it's mefarkhes.
So, why isn't that a law that every
single time you check at the time that
you check the right, but you have to be
mefarkhes? What's the parrots? So, could
be Tamar Garbuz shita. The parrots is
pasha because THE HALAKHA MEFARKHES
MEANS FURTHER SHITA. THAT IF BEFORE THE
SHITA THE ANIMAL was a missile cannon,
that's when you RUN INTO PROBLEMS. BUT
IF THE ANIMAL BECOMES MISSILE cannon
makhmash the shita, so of course it's
NOT AN ISSUE. FORGET, THAT IS WHAT SHITA
IS. SHITA MEANS check the animal that's
not missile cannon, do right, and it's
going to be dead. I could be every
single time you do it, it's missile
cannon ONE SECOND BEFORE. GOOD, THAT'S
all nikhla on what the Torah is telling
you when it says v'zavakh takasher
t'vizikha.
I you'll tell me missile cannon usually
doesn't work. That's when it's missile
cannon right after MAKHMASH THE SHITA.
BUT OBVIOUSLY IT'S SO PASHA THAT WHEN
THE Torah is being m'tzaveh the mitzvah
of shita and the Torah set up the system
where it could be it becomes a missile
cannon before the right. Torah set up
the system of yibbum with a nation OF
ISRAEL. I DON'T KNOW THE BOTTOM LINE,
THAT'S NOT A KASHA. THIS IS THE WAY
SHITA WORKS. SO, THIS IS THE WAY SHITA
WORKS, this is the way shita works.
Well, if that's the case, then this
makham to say that clapping to be A
BASRA ALSO. BECAUSE WHAT'S THE LAW OF
THIS SHITA OF MEAT BASRA? THE LAW OF
THIS shita of meat basra is is that
really shita to tzakhaf in the GANZ
SEMEN. WE SPOKE ABOUT FROM THE Beit
Yosef already a few times. It's just
that ruba is kakula, but when you check
the meat basra, really what you're doing
is you're doing this YOU'RE DOING THE
SHITA. OTHERWISE, YOU COULDN'T BE SHAV
MEAT BASRA. It wouldn't work. The Torah
says because it's all the shita. So, if
it's all the shita, who said there's a
kapeida for me to have to worry and make
sure there wasn't a fire house by the
meat basra. JUST LIKE I DON'T CARE THAT
it wasn't a fire house when I went ahead
and I shut it the right. I don't care
for a second before the right. It might
have died out miss you can it's
irrelevant as long as it was a nice to
shoot it and knocked out the right even
if it one second earlier or later it
doesn't it doesn't deserve this CUZ IT
ALL HAPPENED AS THE SHOOTER. SO IF IT
HAPPENED TO ME
WHEN THE TORAH SAID WAS A LOT OF TORAH
SAID ALL SEVEN. LOOK AT HIM HE WAS
SUPPOSED to shut all seven. So you came
up with a THAT ONCE YOU SHUT IT RIGHT
WITH THE SEVEN AT THAT POINT THAT'S A
MISS you can it's I need to be my fire
by the mirror
every street you have that before you
shut it the right and I feel LIKE IT
DOESN'T BOTHER ME CUZ it happened I got
the street up. SO WHEN I GOT THE STREET
IT doesn't bother me if it happened by
the mirror
it shouldn't bother me either. It's more
hot said the market
held
fundamentally between shutting right of
the seven versus the mirror
and as much as this is so partial that
this is the mirror in the street up but
the mirror is like it's own thing so to
speak and to the extent that we can that
animals dead before the mirror
being that it's kosher already and I
really have a kosher
I don't care what happens anymore in the
mirror
as it relates to the right which is the
mirror
that's my
so over there the fact that it might
have been a miss you can it's before I
got the right that's going to not be an
issue cuz that is all included in what
the Torah is telling you to do when you
do a street and knowing THAT IT MIGHT
DIE a second before you shut the right I
would say it up
but as it relates to the mirror
once I go ahead and I have a an animal
that already had a street up it could be
then you could sit tail the mirror and
the right again this is just thought
provoking long this little bit of a
on what we spoke about earlier in the
week
and we are going to stop here a good
night of service.