0:00 / 0:00
Chulin 14
0 views
Comments(0)
Transcript
Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
Today's stuff is cool enough you dollar.
And we are at the Mishnah, seven lines
from the bottom of Duff Yud Gimmel Amud
Beis. Today's Duff is being learned as a
Refuah Sheleimah for Eliezer Yeshaya ben
Bracha. Today's Duff is also being
learned le'ilui nishmas Chaya bas
Jamila.
So, we're moving along in the first
perek in Maseches Chullin discussing me
v'mi hashocheit.
The Maseches
This Mishnah
is me'uta chamos but roiva achos.
There's so much there. Hakol shocheitin.
Even a tomay, even a cutie,
even a mumcha,
The
Mishnah says mefurash that even though
there's
a concern shamma yakal but b'di'eved if
a roiya shocheit it's kosher. The second
Mishnah we saw that when it comes to an
shocheit
This next Mishnah here in Maseches
Chullin is going to discuss
amongst other things, it's a one line
Mishnah, whether or not a suma is
allowed to shocheit. So, the Mishnah
says
somebody shocheits at night or a suma
should shocheit. Or a suma that
shocheits sh'chitaso kosher, his
sh'chita is going to be kosher. So, what
does the Mishnah say? Sh'chita b'laila
and the sh'chita of a suma is kosher.
Why would you think it's a problem?
Because if you can't see, how you going
to get the sh'chita right? You have to
make sure that you get roiva d'tzu
simanim and you have to conform with the
five halachos of Moshe Rabbeinu. You
have to be poidek the sac and there's a
lot of things that you have to do. So,
you would think that maybe b'laila or a
suma should not be okay. Kamash Balan
it's going to be kosher. Now we're
already trained
in the first two weeks of Masochist
schooling to be madayak the lashoinas of
the Mishnah. Is the Mishnah talking in
Alacha Khila dig away or in a Biday
Avada dig away?
The Mishnah said Hashoicheth
[clears throat] Balayla V'chain Hasuma
Sheshochat
Shichitosai K'sheiras says the Gemara
And essentially the word Hashoicheth the
whole short Mishnah seems to suggest
that
Shichita Balayla and the Shichita of a
Suma is only kosher Biday Avada very
many. I'll ask you a kasha as it relates
to Shichita Balayla being only kosher
Biday Avada from a Braisa Lo Olam
Shocheten you're always allowed to
shochet Bain Bayom U'bain Balayla Bain
B'rosh Hagag Bain B'rosh Hasfina But
what do you see from here?
It sounds like you're allowed to shochet
Balayla L'chatchila. So we have a stira.
Hashoicheth Balayla is mashma only Biday
Avada Lo Olam Shocheten U'bain Balayla
is mashma that you can do it even
L'chatchila
that when the Braisa says that you're
allowed to shochet L'chatchila Balayla
She'avuka K'negda It's talking about
when he had light. So even though it was
night time, but at the same time there
was a proverbial light bulb. And as a
result being that he had light that's
when it's going to be kosher
L'chatchila. When the Mishnah says
Hashoicheth Balayla which implies it's
only kosher Biday Avada is talking about
when there was no Avuka K'negda being
that it's takifinst choshech so it's for
the reason that the Avada is going to be
kosher but L'chatchila it's not going to
be okay.
said Deekonami. It's actually maduyak
very much from the Mishnah and the
Braisa respectively like Rav Papa's
distinction.
Because the Braisa that said Lo Olam
Shocheten Bain Bayom U'bain Balayla so
it put Layla together with what? It put
Layla together with Yom Dumyo D'yom By
day you can see thus Layla is where
although it's night, but proverbially,
it's somewhat day. Why? Cuz there's an
avuka d'nehora. The hakha in the mishna,
it put layla together with what? It put
it together with a suma. The hakha d'mya
d'suma, a suma can't see, so it's yet
hakha that the layla is also a zaza
layla where you can't see, where it's
dark outside, and there's no avuka
d'nehora. Ishma minna. Said Rav Ashi,
final word in the sugya, k'darko
bakodesh, that it's actually maduyak. I
like this piece of gemara. I think it
should be part and parcel of the
formation of the Talmud,
>> [snorts]
>> because it actually makes a lot of
sense. The mishna is talking about a
suma d'mya d'layla. The braisa is
talking about a suma that's d'mya
d'iyya. Either way, going to get back to
this sugya of shchita suma b'ezras
Hashem in the raid, but for now, we turn
our attention to the next sugya here in
maseches chullin, a sugya that is going
to be malava us knee-deep into
tomorrow's daf. Begins with another very
short mishna, but a mishna that
reverberates very much in the world of
raid. There's so much related to this
mishna. Unfortunately, we're not even
going to get to the raid on this mishna
today. But,
a classic nonetheless. Zoch the mishna,
ashcheches b'shabbos uv'yom hakipurim,
if [snorts] somebody shcheches on
shabbos or on yom kippur, af
for what it is he did. Somebody
shcheches on shabbos, he's chayav misa
b'ezdin. If somebody shcheches on yom
kippur, he's a kares, he's chayav kares.
But, despite the fact that this person
is mischayev nafsha, shchitaso k'sheira,
the shchita is going to be kasher. So,
what's the topic of this mishna? If
somebody shcheches on shabbos, if
somebody shcheches on yom kippur, he's
chayav misa, okay. But, then again,
there's always a silver lining,
shchitaso k'sheira. At least you could
have a dinner. But, the bottom line is
that shchita b'shabbos and shchita on
yom kippur is kasher. Now, here too,
ashcheches b'shabbos b'di'eved, there's
not going to be any steer to this,
right? A shochet b'Shabbos is b'dieved,
and a shochet b'Yom Kippur is b'dieved.
Obviously, you're not allowed to do it
l'chatchila, but b'dieved, the halacha
is
schita k'sheira. Zocher Amar Rav Huna,
said Darshiya bar Rav b'shmei d'Rav.
Rav's son, Chiya, said over in the name
of his great father.
What did he say? That even though the
Mishna says a shochet b'Shabbos b'Yom
Kippurim, schita k'sheira, but assur
b'achila l'yoma. But at the same time,
on the day itself, on Shabbos and on Yom
Kippur, you're not going to be able to
eat it. Now, the fact that you can't eat
it on Yom Kippur is pretty intuitive.
The chiddush is that you won't be able
to eat it on Shabbos either. So,
inasmuch as schita k'sheira, but there's
a din that if you want to eat it on
Shabbos, that's not going to be okay.
Truth is, the Gemara b'Maseches Shabbos
Rashi quotes it, we'll see it in
tomorrow's daf, it's on daf 106, is
going to say that the makor to this is
from the fact that the Mishna juxtaposes
Shabbos and Yom Kippur, and Yom Kippur
is for sure
assur b'achila l'yoma, simply because
it's Yom HaKodesh. So, as it relates to
Shabbos, it's going to be the same way.
But the bottom line is, this is what Rav
Huna said over, that Chiya bar Rav
darshiya in the name of Rav. So, this is
attributed to Rav, as we'll see later in
the daf, the names matter. But Rav said
that as much as a shochet b'Shabbos
schita k'sheira, but at the same time,
assur b'achila l'yoma. Says the Gemara,
the nafka chabraya l'olam. So, the
chabraya, the olam, they got together in
the bais medrash and they said Rav
Yehuda here, that when Rav said that
it's assur b'achila l'yoma, they had a
deyak in the Mishna. But when Rav said
this,
it has to be because he
understood that the Mishna is Rav
Yehuda, and in the world of Rav Yehuda,
it makes sense that it should be assur
b'achila l'yoma. Says the Gemara, "Hi
Rav Yehuda, what
did the
think was
or is the
to why it would be that
means there is some
out there in the world
that seems to say that even if you want
to argue that
the same time
Gamorah
we're going to
sheet
he didn't say this first it's a
and the Gamorah wants to know how this
question of
is going to be the topic of the balance
of today's talk and the first two-thirds
of tomorrow's as well the Gamorah is
going to try to figure out how
which
is there in
that would be the
to say that even though
but
now in today's just to set this up we're
going to go through four attempts
they're all going to be failed attempts
and then in tomorrow's
we'll see the ending to this story so
says the Gamorah
took the first crack at it and he said
I think what the
meant to say was they wanted to rub you
hood in the
tiny bit of background through
and really it's a tiny bit of background
to the entire off and that is we know
when you learn shabbos massekhet shabbos
there's a
rub you hood and rub shimon
in fact there are three
rub you hood and rub shimon that
underpin and permeate the entirety of
massekhet shabbos in all three cases rub
you hood is the
and rub shimon with his
is the
rub you hood is
the
he looks
at you who does the of
you who does the
of you who does the of in contrast rub
shimon who's making all three cases by
the way we've spoken so much about this
over the years that in all three of
these machlokesin, the halacha is like
Reb Shimon. So, as much as we usually
don't pasken like Reb Shimon, certainly
when he argues with his greats about
muktza, Rebbi Yehuda, but on Shabbos,
there it's different, and there the
halacha really is like Reb Shimon. So,
okay. What we need to know is that when
it comes to muktza, Rebbi Yehuda is the
machmir, and Reb Shimon is the meikel.
Now, the sugia of muktza is a very
complicated sugia, and you could learn
it be in 6 months in yeshiva, and it's
still going to be a complicated sugia.
And although the Gemara is going to
delve in a little bit into the sugia of
muktza now, we're going to keep it high
level. So, again, the super-duper high
level is Rebbi Yehuda is the machmir on
muktza, Reb Shimon is meikel as it
relates to applications of where Reb
Yehuda is machmir, so that will manifest
itself during the course of the daf, but
either way, Rav Adda, who is
taking the first attempt to
explain what the chaveirim meant when
they said that when Rav learned up in
the Mishna that asura b'chila d'yoma, he
was going like Reb Yehuda, it's Reb
Yehuda v'chano d'tnan, we learned in a
Mishna, mechatzchin es ha'diluin lifnei
ha'beheima.
A person is allowed to take gourd and
chop it up on Shabbos and feed it to a
beheima. V'asan ha'neveila lifnei
ha'klavim, additionally, in the event
that somebody has a neveila, and he
wants to feed his dogs on Shabbos,
you're allowed to chop up the neveila,
and you're allowed to feed it to the
dogs. Reb Yehuda aimar, Reb Yehuda says,
in the case of a neveila me'eres
Shabbos, in the event that this neveila
was not a neveila before Shabbos,
meaning, in the event that the animal
died on Shabbos, asur, it's going to be
asur, lifisha in aman muchan, because
when Shabbos came, it wasn't a neveila,
which means it was not muchan to be fed
to klavim. As a result, it's muktza.
Therefore, Reb Yehuda, who is a machmir
on muktza, says that it's not going to
be okay. So, according to the Tanna
Kamma, a neveila is a neveila is a
neveila, and you're always allowed to
take a neveila, cut it up, and feed it
to the dogs. I don't care if it was a
neveila before Shabbos or if it
available on Shabbos. According to R'
Yehuda, it matters. If it became an
available on Shabbos, being that it
wasn't muchan fire Shabbos for the
clothing, right? It was a good animal.
What were you going to do with it? I
don't know. Let it work in the field or
at some point shechted and eat it. But
achilas clothing is always the last
option when you can't eat it. So like
tashlich
So in a situation like that, being that
it wasn't muchan the clothing, therefore
it's going to be assur. What do you see
from him?
Being that it wasn't prepared from
before Shabbos for the clothing, it's in
a minute muchan, it's going to be assur.
So
said R'
It makes sense that if somebody would
shecht on Shabbos, it would be assur to
eat on Shabbos because
being that the shechita happened not
before Shabbos, it happened on Shabbos,
assur it's going to be assur. And you
want to know why it's assur?
So said R'
that you know why
And you know which R' Yehuda this is
based on? It's based on R' Yehuda who's
muchan
He holds that in order to be eat
something, it has to be muchan. There's
no way this possible is muchan because
when
Erev Shabbos came, when the laws of
muchan go into effect, at that point it
was a live animal. So clearly it wasn't
prepared to be on your Shabbos dinner
menu. So based on that, in the event
that the shechita happened, even though
shechita is
that's a sugya in
But you want to know as it relates to
Shabbos, it's going to be muchan. This
is what R' said. So I told R'
He said, "Me dummy?
It's not a tzushta.
Hasam as it relates to the halacha of
nevela l'clothing, where R' Yehuda says
the nevela Shabbos assur,
>> [snorts]
>> there the reason it's considered in a
minute muchan is because
because before Shabbos this animal was
muchan
And now
it became muchan It was not muchan It
was muchan As a result, it's in a minute
muchan, it's muchan.
but as we listed this animal may come
it was always Muqallad. You want to know
if it was shocked already it was
marinating and pickling no but at the
same time it was definitely
and
now you're using it so
it was Muqallad and it's Muqallad so if
that's the case
I don't think it's a
meaning high level of conception I know
what you're trying to say
that it has to be
but I think in this case it is
that it's not because it was
now you want to use
but over here it was
you might be using
Adam says the
so responded
he told him
when animals are alive it's Muqallad no
animal is alive it's Muqallad it's meant
to be used in the field right an animal
is more valuable than it is dead because
when it's alive there's more options
there's more things you can do with it
and being that it's considered Muqallad
not
so it actually is like the
where it was Muqallad
or
and now all of a sudden it's been
Muqallad the bottom line is it's
in the Muqallad in this case as well so
said I believe for sure that according
to you would have that
is going to be a problem well based on
that it would be
but the said
I
don't
know but I responded if you're going to
tell me that every animal
that
is alive is considered Muqallad
and it's not considered Muqallad
and that's why
the even though
it's still a Muqallad problem well if
that's the case
so why are you ever allowed to an animal
on
on Yom Tov, you're allowed to shacht.
It's not considered
chill Yom Tov because ain't being shacht
on Yom Tov hello oichel nefesh for that.
The problem is the laws of muktza just
like they apply on Shabbos apply on Yom
Tov. And if that's the case you should
never be allowed to shacht on Yom Tov
because you should always say in Rebbi
Yehuda's world it was aina min hamucha.
This is bishlam if you're going to tell
me that
animal is considered muchan l'adam. So
it always is muchan. There's not going
to be a problem. But if you're telling
me that it's not muchan l'adam but
rather what it is it's muchan l'gadel.
If it's muchan l'gadel just like that's
a problem on Shabbos in the
obscure case of a shacht b'Shabbos, well
in the more common case where
l'chatchila you're allowed to go ahead
and shacht on Yom Tov, this should end
up being an issue. So Rebbi Babba told
him, "No, let me explain to you how this
works. An animal that's alive is a medas
l'achila and by medas l'gadel. It's
actually a medas for both. It's a medas
to be eaten and it's a medas l'gadel. On
Yom Tov you're allowed to shacht, right?
So nishchita when you go ahead and you
shacht it huvera d'l'achila medas.
You're being mevarer right now that what
was it really muchan for? It was muchan
l'achila. L'oi nishchita if you didn't
shacht it then huvera d'l'gadel medas.
Then it's going to be nisbar there was a
gadel medas. And that's why you're
allowed to shacht on Yom Tov. On Shabbos
however, once bein hashmashos comes at
that point it's for sure only muchan
l'gadel. The reason it's only muchan
l'gadel because you don't have the
option to be able to go ahead and shacht
on Shabbos because that's going to be
ossur. In other words, Rebbi Babba said,
"Well I'll tell you that the Rebbi
Yehuda
that the Chavraya meant when they said a
shacht b'Shabbos even though shchitaso
is k'sheira
was the Rebbi Yehuda of muchan. And the
reason is because there's a muktza
problem. It's aina min hamucha. Why is
it aina min hamucha?
Because a beheima b'chaya is a medas l'
as opposed to now where it's a matter of
slaughter. So, being that it was never
moved
it was moved to Lagado. It's for that
reason there's going to be an issue.
What's your question? Your question is
if that's the case you have to take it
out. So, why you have to take it fine.
So, you have to tweak a little bit what
I'm saying. What I meant to say was is
that an animal that's alive is always
moved for both. And as long as I have
both options, I see it as being moved
for both. And when I do one or the other
it going to move
based on the sugar as we'll see in one
second a prayer that determines which
was which. But on Shabbos leading up to
Shabbos is moved for both but the minute
made a special comes the minute I'm no
longer allowed to shock. Well, at that
point you lose the option and you have
to kill now all it is is moved to Lagado
if all is moved to Lagado. So, I can't
tell you it was an animal that was moved
and that's the Rabbi Yehuda.
So, Abaya is going to fire back now. The
basis of what Abaya is going to say back
now is a Rabbi essentially in order for
you to make this Rabbi Yehuda work, you
need to suggest Rabbi Yehuda holds the
age prayer, right? Because essentially
what you're saying is that an animal is
not moved
it's moved
and Lagado, right?
Because if it's moved
then there's no problem of a shock of
the Shabbos eating it on that day. It
was always moved
the carrots is it's always moved
and Lagado. On Shabbos you lose the
option of a killer. On Yom Tov you have
both options and with prayer it's going
to work. So, really in order for you to
make this work you have to hold the age
prayer, right? Let's say this a little
better because if you hold a prayer, if
you hold a prayer, well, then there's no
such thing as saying that the animal was
moved
it was moved and on Yom Tov we figured
out which one it's going to be. You
would have to say from the fact that you
allowed to shock on Yom Tov it was
always considered moved
and if that's the case on Shabbos it
would also always be considered moved
Le'Adam. It's Behemsah Mucheh Le'Adam.
[laughter]
And if it's Behemsah Mucheh Le'Adam,
then there's no reason that there should
be a Tzusah D'Rabi Yehudah and Arsuha.
And it can't be that the Chazai Kedusha,
when they said Rabi Yehudah, they were
referring to this Rabi Yehudah. So, the
only way, if you're holding Chashman,
that Rab Abba's Teredos can work is if
you say that an animal is not inherently
Mucheh Le'Adam. It's Mucheh Le'Gadol
U'Le'Adam. On Shabbos, you lose the
option of Adam. That's why there's a
problem, right? That's what you're
suggesting. As opposed to on Yom Tov,
where both options are available with
the Inyan of Breirah. But, it's only
true if you hold Breirah, says the
Gemara. Says the Gemara. Abaye turned to
Rabba, and he told him, "About last
night, regarding Rabi Yehudah Breirah, I
know for a fact Rabi Yehudah doesn't
hold Breirah. And if he doesn't hold
Breirah, the whole Dinyan falls me la
lines." The Gemara says, "How do you
know that Rabi Yehudah doesn't hold
Breirah?" So, again,
this is a fun Daf, as we can already
tell from the beginning. The Gemara here
is going to shtel tzu two of the
greatest Sugyas in Breirah, both of
which relate to Rabi Yehudah. That's why
these are the two we're picking. Right?
Whenever you learn Breirah, so there's
always a handful of Sugyas that get
thrown around. In this Sugya, the reason
we're picking these two cases is because
these are the Rabi Yehudah cases, She'al
Zeh O'Lo Doneh. And we want to know
Shitas Rabi Yehudah. But anyway, says
the Gemara, "We know Rabi Yehudah
doesn't hold Breirah. We know How do you
know that?" Ee Leima Me'De Tanyah. So,
every time you see this Halacha brought
down, there's always a Shaylah in the
Gersa. Is it Tanyah or is it Tinah? And
the reason is cuz really it's a Mishnah
and a Braisa. So, the Mishnah says it in
one way, the Braisa says it in another
way. So, that's why there's always a
little bit of a Sugya. It's What we're
about to learn now, a Tanyah or is it a
Tinah? But anyway, in the Gemara says
the Tanyah. So, we'll go with the
Tanyah, okay? Anyhow, if somebody buys
wine from a Kuti, we know who the Kutis
are by Chulin Daf Yud Daled. All we need
to know for our Sugya now is that the
Kutim were Chashud when it came to
Tum'as Ma'asros. Okay. So, if somebody
buys wine from a Kuti, and he has to be
Mafresh Tum'as Ma'asros, cuz he knows
that they're chashash. Okay. So, just be
mafsu trumah and ma'aser. So, Rashi has
two mahalachim here in terms of what the
issue was. One issue was he had no keili
to put the trumah and ma'aser on.
That's problem. Can't be mafsu trumah
and ma'aser if you don't have where to
put the trumah and ma'aser.
Additionally, the issue wasn't the
keili, but the issue was that it was
almost Shabbos. And because it was
almost Shabbos, on Shabbos you can't be
mafsu trumah and ma'aser. So, you didn't
have chance to go ahead and get the
keili and put everything in order. You
just had to act very, very quickly. The
sun is literally setting as this is all
going down. But anyway, al dikduk
b'nakudim, and you're not in a situation
right now where you can properly be
mafsu trumah and ma'aser. So, there's a
plan B. Oy may he could say, "Shnei
luggin shani osah l'hafrish, hareini
trumah." The two luggin that I'm going
to be mafsu trumah are going to be
trumah. Why two luggin? So, Rashi says
cuz it's talking about where there was a
hundred lug, and two out of a hundred is
one out of fifty. And the Mishnah says
the midas beinonis when it comes to
hafrashas trumah, even though chitas has
p'tiras acharei, but the midas beinonis
says to do one fifty. The way Rashi does
it is he says, "I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah. I'm going
to be mafsu trumah. I'm going to be
mafsu trumah. I'm going to be mafsu
trumah. I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
I'm going to be mafsu trumah.
Right? And as a result it's
not going going to be an issue. Says R'
Meir, that's fine. You could do that.
You can work with this retroactively cuz
R' Meir holds that it's okay. By the
way, why do you have to be okay with
this? You're relying on
the true ma. You're relying on the
ma'aser rishon. There's no problem over
there. Ma'aser sheni be okay with
this. It's because R' Meir holds that as
much as you can rely on it, it's a
problem. If there's another way to do
this, then I'd rather you work the other
way. You're not allowed to do ma'aser
sheni outside of Jerusalem. So if
there's an option to be
okay with ma'aser sheni, then be okay
with ma'aser sheni. So R' Meir allows
you to do it, but there's an insight. He
only allows you to do it if you have no
choice. It's a new point from the right?
Even the whole case sets itself up that
way. Where it's
you don't have uh
or it's or it's not much, but the point
is is that you can use it you can use
it, but that's only R' Meir. R' Yehuda,
that's what we need. R' Yosi, R' Shimon,
these three held that it's also. So why
they hold it's also presumably cuz they
held R' Meir, but what's the bottom
line? You see clearly that
R' Yehuda is R' Meir. So I told R' Meir,
you're
predicated on the fact R' Meir. R'
Yehuda doesn't hold R' Meir. You know I
know that from the most famous case of
R' Meir. From
R' Meir,
from R' Yehuda, R' Yosi, R' Shimon, you
see clearly R' Yehuda is not of the
opinion of R' Meir, but the says
tiny time, but that's nothing to do with
R' Meir. As a matter of fact, it's
over there
in the discussion that R' Yosi,
R' Yehuda, R' Shimon had with R' Meir
[laughter]
that the reason they argued with R' Meir
was not related to R' Meir. Rather, it's
based on the reason that they themselves
expressed R' Meir. They told R' Meir,
yeah,
aren't you worried that maybe the this
jug that has all this wine or whatever
is inside of it is going to break? And
if that happens, then
it's going to come out of the
if you don't end up being I'm afraid
this is much of a problem, then for sure
it's going to come out of my afraid it's
going to be a problem. I'm going to let
him know that I told him I hear what you
say you yeah when it happens it happens.
And by the way this is a very broadly
applied my where a mayor is is not
highest
but it makes highest not highest
as opposed to but it over here are
highest
but anyway this has nothing to do with
it's true
holds the highest prayer but it could be
also hold the highest prayer and the
only reason they were ALSO BECAUSE OF
YOU BUT I KNOW THE BOTTOM LINE IS
THERE'S no way from here that doesn't
hold the so the says
I said I hear take two
the tiny
you know I know doesn't hold the prayer
I know it from something that I
said and I is mentioned in the
A ribbon
that's one of the
and that's where the world of
intersects with the laws of A ribbon
specifically A ribbon the so the
background is as follows
the mission of here says that must not
a person can make an A ribbon tonight
what does that mean and the mission goes
on and expresses two cases one case is
where a person heard that there's a
that's coming to town but he doesn't
know if he's coming to the east of the
town to the west of the town now he's
outside the town so in order for him to
go whether it's east or west he's going
to have to make an A ribbon promise you
can't make an A ribbon on both sides you
can only make an A ribbon on one side
right cuz once you make an A ribbon so
now your center of the universe becomes
where the
A ribbon is and you lose out on your
ability to walk in the opposite
direction of where the A ribbon is but
the bottom line is he doesn't know which
direction the is coming so he could be
he could put an A ribbon to the east he
could put an A ribbon to the west and he
could say if the goes to the east I want
my A ribbon to the east to be there and
if he goes to the west I want it to be
to the west mission continues the
mission says I'll tell you a similar
halakha. This is very much me Indian
Indian by Indian. What would be if there
were two coming that were coming to
town? There's a coming to the east and
there's a coming that's coming to the
west and he's not sure yet in the
beginning of Shabbos which drasha he
wants to hear. Right? He wants to hear
the east coast halakha or the west coast
halakha. So, he says, you know what? I'm
leaving my options open over the course
of Shabbos and I'm going to decide as it
gets a little bit
later. You could do that. So, you can
MAKE TWO WAY
DECIDE ON SHABBOS WHICH ONE YOU WANT it
should work and it's going to be okay.
On this Mishnah the Gemara a brisa Tony
I was the name of a
and he sold the following brisa.
A person cannot be two things at once.
Now, the way Rashi explains this is I
would say that
agreed with the first of the two
halakhas. He just disagreed with the
second of the two halakhas. The first
halakha where he said that if the goes
to the east, I want my to be to the
east. If he goes to the west, I want it
to be to the west. That I'm okay with.
It's not okay. And the end up being in
the direction that the end up going. If
there's two
and you're deciding on Shabbos where I'm
going to go, in that case it's not going
to be okay.
What I would say they didn't understand.
Why did I say that
was
to the first
second
Why would he not agree with the second
halakha?
It's obviously because of What do you
mean
because there's two that are coming.
You're not sure which one of the two you
want to hear. When you decide which one
you want to hear, it's going to have to
retroactively say that that was there.
And the eruv into effect as hashmahshes,
goes into effect as Shabbos is being
ushered in. You're deciding
which of the two eruvin should be
ushered in bein hashmahshes on Shabbos,
which means you're doing which is breira
101. But, obviously Rebbe Yehudah is
less lebreira, and that must mean why
Rebbe Yehudah was in the second case.
Well, if that's true, Mizrach Eiruv nami
the first case is also a problem of
breira. Why? So, this is a little
nuance. It's because the Machsheva, the
Benei Yeshiva were of the opinion that
the case was where the himself on
Shabbos was going to make up his mind
want to go to the east, or do I want to
go to the west? So, if that's the case,
really on Shabbos again even in the
first case it's being
which one of these two eruvin were going
to be the the right eruv, which again is
totally a breira. So, if Rebbe Yehudah
holds ein breira, and that's why he
disagrees with the second case, he ein
breira should disagree with the first
case as well. For Rebbe Yochanan Rebbe
Yochanan answered the Benei Yeshiva's
kasha, he told him, "No, you didn't
understand the first case. The first
case is not where the is coming on
Shabbos. He
came already before Shabbos. It's just
that the guy who's making the eruv, the
masmer doesn't know where he came. I
don't know if he came this way or he
came that way. But, here's the point.
Whichever direction he came in, that's
the eruv that's been now, not on Shabbos
now. NOW, NOW, NOW, NOT
NOW. AND BEING THAT IT'S happening right
now, it's nothing to do with the Sugya
of Breira. But, the bottom line is, what
do you see from here? This is the end of
this conversation. You see from here, we
just need one nuance.
What we need is that Rebbe Yehudah is
less lebreira. And now you know it. May
the tonya
Zev Avya told Rebbe Abba
that the only way your shot
in
what Rav meant when he said hashaycha
bishabbos shichitas sheir bidasur
liyoma.
And the nusfin Chavraya
Rebbe Yehudah here
>> And
is which Rabbi Yehuda? Rabbi Yehuda
holds that
you can't be
in
that the animal And the reason is
because uh
wasn't and if that's the case
said oh, I think we have a very good
over here.
The animal wasn't but Shabbat is not
allowed to eat
it. And if that's the case, this is no
different than the animal that died on
Shabbat that you can't give to the dogs.
Over here the animal was killed and but
the same thing you can't feed the people
cuz the reason is it was
uh It can't be that that's true. Because
the only way you can make that work is
if Rabbi Yehuda holds it is prior. What
does that have to do with prior?
Because if you're going to tell me that
an animal while it's alive is not
allowed to eat it
100% full stop, well then you're going
to have a problem every single day.
Every single day you're allowed to eat
it. Every single day you're allowed to
And if it's not allowed to eat it,
you shouldn't be able to
What was the answer? The answer was no.
An animal is allowed to eat it. It's
also allowed to eat it. On when you eat
it,
on Shabbat WHERE YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO
EAT IT, so obviously
it's always going to end up being an
issue. That would work if Rabbi Yehuda
held it is prior. The problem is we know
from Rabbi Yehuda it is prior. If he
holds it is prior, the way it works has
cuz it's 100%
100% allowed
So if it's 100% allowed
to eat uh you don't necessarily want to
eat it. Whatever, we can
figure out why THAT'S THE WAY
THAT it's considered allowed to eat it.
Yeah, you know from the fact you're
allowed to eat it despite the fact it is
So it must be allowed to eat it. Well,
then that's the case it shouldn't be any
different on Shabbat. Right, why would
Shabbat be different? Because Shabbat
you don't have the option to eat it. You
don't have So, on Yom Tov, you don't
have to share. THE TERRORISTS
BECAUSE IT'S DARK right there to
ultimately share. THAT'S WHAT YOU DO
WITH ANIMALS. WITH ANIMALS, at some
point, you share it. And you don't
necessarily share it. Up in Hilchos
Muktzah, it's considered Muktzah
Machshavah
and if that's true on Yom Tov, it'll
have to be true on Shabbos. It's have to
consider Muktzah Machshavah.
That's the case this Rabbi Yehudah is
not a Tzushtel. We're back to the
drawing board. The Nos from Chaverai the
Memra of Yehudah he The big question is
Hi Rabbi Yehudah element of Yosi. Rabbi
Yosi took the second crack at it. He
said Rabbi Yehudah the Keilim he You
want to know which Rabbi Yehudah is?
It's Rabbi Yehudah of Keilim. And this
is a Sugya.
Mishnah Maseches Shabbos Daf Kuf Kaf
Daled. And this also deals with the laws
of Muktzah again. Being mindful of the
fact that without getting into the
Sugyas of Muktzah Rabbi Yehudah is a
Machmir Muktzah. We're going to find
another case where Rabbi Yehudah's Is
Lay Muktzah Muktzah and we're going to
try to Shteil a Tzushtel to our Mishnah.
Kol HaKeilim Nitolin Shabbos says the
Mishnah. Any Keili
that you're allowed to carry on Shabbos,
Shivreihem Nitolin. In the event that
the Keili breaks on Shabbos, you're
allowed to carry those shards, the
broken parts of the Keili as well. So,
just because a Keili breaks doesn't make
it Muktzah. U'vav Ain you have to read
the not such fine print. This is only
true you Oisin Me'ein Melacha.
It's only if these Shivrei Keilim are
able to do Melacha. If you can't do
anything with it, if there's no
Hishtamshus that you can have with it,
then obviously you have to not touch it,
right? It's Muktzah. I was going to say
get rid of it. No, you don't touch it.
But, if you can't do Melacha with it,
then not. So, for example, Shivrei
Areivah. If somebody has some sort of
basket and now it broke, Lechas Ben Pi
Chaves. As long as you can do something
with it. As long as you can cover a
Chaves. Even though that's not what that
Areivah was used for, right? That
Areivah literally is a mixing bowl. And
now you're using it to cover a Chaves,
but you can use it. As long as you use
it, it's going to be okay. Shivrei
Zchuchis. If you had a a glass crystal
Keili that broke, Lechas Ben Pi Pach. If
you can cover the top of a Pach or jug,
that's going to be fine. Rabbi Yehudah
Rabbi Yehudah says, "I'm a Machmir."
U'vav Ain you Oisin Me'ein Melacha. This
is a nuance. Me'ein Melacha.
>> I'm a machama.
Who will watch you? Or tsunami in
Malacca. This is a nuance in Malacca
ton. You have to be able to continue to
do this specific Malacca.
So, for example, shivray areva lots of
political mikvah. And areva is used to
put something in it. So, as long as it's
big enough and it's shaped in a way
where you can pour a mikvah, you can
pour some oil into it. So, then it's
going to be okay. Or shivray shukis
which was used to contain liquids inside
of it. Lots of political shamin. You'd
have to be able to pour shamin inside of
it. But, here's the point. Rebbe
Yehuda's machama. What's Rebbe Yehuda's
point? That it's not enough that you can
do may in Malacca, but it has to be may
in Malacca ton. That says may in Malacca
ton in may in Malacca
acharis light. The only time shivray
kalim you're allowed to use is if you
can do it may in Malacca ton. Okay,
what's the point? Al ma, what do you see
from here?
You know you see from here? You see from
here that Rebbe Yehuda holds if you have
a kaylie that was much may have shabbos
to be used on shabbos,
but it was much and for this is
shamshes. If you want to use it for a
different is shamshes, it would require
some sort of tikun. You would have to do
something. You'd have to break it in
this case. But, there's some tikun that
would have to happen. That makes it be
ain't no man of a hooker. Again, even
though high level this is much and this
kaylie is much and it's much and it's
it's on my dining room table. I'm using
it in my image this trina inside of it.
I'm using it. Yeah, that's fine. But, if
you want to now use it for something
else, if you needed a tikun to be able
to use it for that, well, that in and of
itself won't be okay. Says Rebbe Yosef,
if that's the case, here's the shush. As
it relates to an animal, even if an
animal is much and all them like we
proved already from the olive, even
though an animal is much
>> [snorts]
>> and all them, but at the same time,
being that if you're going to want it
eat from the animal, you're still going
to have to do a shrita. So, it requires
a tikun. So, it can't be the ticken? It
required a shveera. So here too it
requires a shrita. Well, if that's the
case, kim il
asma being that it wasn't prepared
mamesh for this thing yesterday asura,
it's going to be also either way. So Rav
Yosef said, you want to know which Rav
Yehuda I think the
kadisha were referring to when they said
according to Rav Yehuda it's going to be
also liyoma it's going to be muktza.
Where do you see Rav Yehuda holds it's
going to be muktza? You see Rav Yehuda
holds that when comes to muktza it has
to be muchan
mamesh for this thing and if it's chaser
any ticken that in of itself is going to
be an issue. Well, if that's the case
over here it's chaser ticken and based
on that this would be a problem. So who
said this teretz? Rav Yosef said this
teretz.
So Abaya told him, now by the way, Abaya
was the one who
said what he said to Rav Abba on as
well. But when Abaya says something to
Rav Abba doesn't have the same meaning
in our anyways as when Abaya says
something to Rav Yosef. But either way
I'm going to say Abaya he told him me
dami, it's it's not a tzusta. I think
you're misreading this whole Rav Yehuda.
The side of this Rav Yehuda of why when
a kayli breaks
it has to be made in melachtan otherwise
it's not going to be okay. It's not
because of Rav Yehuda's definition of
muktza that it has to be muchan for this
thing and not be
chaser even a ticken culture. That's not
the nakuda. You want to know muchan not
muchan and if high level it's considered
that in of itself is going to be okay.
Doesn't have to be muchan on such a
granular level. Okay, so what's shatan
Rav Yehuda? Why does he hold that it has
to be made in melachtan?
It's a whole different nakuda. He says
chaser in that case may car kayli. When
you started off on shabbos with a kayli
then the kayli broke on shabbos. So
betchila shabbos that's made car with a
kayli. The hashta and now that it broke
shiver kayli. Now it's already a broken
chart. The havalin noilat. It's noilat.
Now noilat is a sif cotton in the worlds
of muktza. But that's the same thing,
right? No way that is the first thing
you massage this bayah, but the bottom
line is it's no way that this is like a
dover hadash over here. For us when it's
that, for that reason it's going to be
awesome. If, however, you can use me in
melachtan, right? So, with here Rabbi
Yehudah doesn't hold it's no way that.
And being that it's not no way that in
that case it's going to be fine. But
here's the point, that Rabbi Yehudah is
being mechadesh no way that. Okay, so
maybe in our sugiyah there should be a
no way that problem, right? We had a
bayah answering it. You just shifted the
nusach a little bit, but a shechitah b'
Shabbos, you started off with an animal,
now you have a piece of meat. So, said
Abaya, here's the punchline. But as
relates to food may come
Before you shechted the animal was
considered
oichel. It was
oichel. And now that you shechted it,
it's right there oichel. In fact, oichel
difference. When you shechted it, you
know what you did? YOU JUST CHOPPED A
PIECE OF MEAT. THAT'S ESSENTIALLY what
you did. Rashi says "Ifris means nishbar
b'nifrach." You know, it's basically you
chopped off a piece of meat. And being
that all it is that you chopped off a
piece of meat, it's not no way that.
It's not going to be a problem. And
Abaya continued, he says, "Maybe
mechesi. How do you know if you chop off
a piece of meat that it's not considered
no way that? That sounds like no way
that to me. You started off with a bull
and now all of a sudden you have
a piece of meat, right?" Now, a minute
later Rabbi Yehudah said, "I have
information. I know for a fact that
Rabbi Yehudah holds of this svara
of oichel difference and it's not
considered no way that. How do I know
that? It's from the Mishnah in Shabbos.
In
you know that a squeezed
fruit made schita on Shabbos. If you
want to remove mashkin from it,
if they came out by themselves, assumed
it's going to be awesome. Rabbi Yehudah
said, "I'm there."
Rabbi Yehudah said,
"In [snorts] oichel, in the event that
these peros were meant for oichel,
then whatever comes from it is going to
be mutar. But in mashkin, and if you're
using it in mashkin, then I assume it is
assur. Then it's going to be assur." The
side of schita of Rabbi Yehudah is Rabbi
Yehudah holds that if you're using it
like achila,
so then there's no schita.
that you're going to go ahead and
if however it's set aside for
then there's a chance you're going to do
so again you know
that's obvious the question is what if
it was
say it's going to be
I think you're being
says that if it was that was set aside
for
me what was the objective of these to do
a
so if the objective was to do a then I'm
concerned that if we're going to allow
you to use a
and you may go ahead and use a
so therefore I'm I'm shutting it down
I'm saying that if it's
if however it was something that was set
aside then I'm not concerned and as a
result it's going to be okay but one
thing you see from here says that if the
pairs happen on
it's
only if it was a
whatever not learning the nuances of the
we're learning now so we need to know is
just one thing who does that impress
with the fact that may
has to
what should be the issue no you have to
say cuz
I
the bottom line is the second attempt to
try to
in the of
that you see that who holds that in the
world of has to be
what's the
I can break something could be used IN
THE
BUT IT'S
EVEN THOUGH THE WAS YEAH BUT IT WAS it
wasn't that's that's going to be a
problem so that's a good that you see
from here that whatever it's
a big one EVEN THOUGH IT'S
BUT THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS NOT going
to be okay but after further review I
buy that it was a nice
an amazing
by the way if you want to see that
that's a little bit of a hard I want to
see the a little bit better
I don't know what the
says sort of what we said but the bottom
line is I should say we're saying sort
of what the says garage man says. But
the bottom line is that the point is
that that Yehuda is related to something
else related to Nila. And if it's
related to Nila, there's no shakers to
our Sugya because we're dealing with
and even though the took on a completely
different form to something called the
difference is a present of Yehuda
the bottom line is we're over two right
now.
We still have two two Rebbe Yehuda's
both in the Sugya of Muktza both
Mishnayos in Maseches Shabbos and so far
we've been unsuccessful says the Gemara
love it Marala.
Now the words love it Marala is a little
tricky right cuz it doesn't look like
this is a third terrace. It looks like
love it Marala is all part of the
original hedgeman. Right you would
expect to see an Ella right? That's not
that's not what the Gemara is doing. And
the reason is is because this third
terrace really is is no lot pun intended
from the previous and the aftermentioned
discussion. As a matter of fact it
sounds like Rebbe Yosef is probably the
one that's saying it cuz Ella Marala
Rebbe Yosef and Rebbe Yosef and Abaya
are going back and forth over here. But
once we still suit this Sugya I think in
the Sugya of Skita there is a source.
There is a Makor another Rebbe Yehuda
that would be able to still suit. What
is that? Omar Rebbe Yehuda a Mashmoel
Rebbe Yehuda is in the name of Shmuel
Rebbe Yehuda
Rebbe Yehuda was Moider to the
B'Salis Zaysem and Anovim if somebody
has baskets of Zaysem and Anovim that
what? In that case the Halacha is
that even though
even though the
the
Zaysem and Anovim are technically what?
Are technically Muchan La'Achila but any
Mashkin that comes out of it in that
case Rebbe Yehuda is Moider to the
it's going to be okay. It's going to be
a problem. What do you see from here?
Alma you see from here Kivan D'Leschita
Kaimi being that Zaysem and Anovim are
very valuable things the the Mashkin
that comes out of the Zayis the oil is
more valuable than the Zayis. The
Mashkin that comes out of the grapes the
wine is more valuable than the grapes.
When you have something like that, you
have da'as Torah. There's always a
halacha that says that in that
situation, it could be it could be the
person will ultimately want the mashkin
as well because of the the chashuve
nature of it. And based on that, even
though you had it set aside for oichel,
BUT IN THAT CASE, WHY DID REBBE YEHUDA
say it's going to be ossur? Again, where
it's mashkin, gezeiras Shammai Yisrael.
Where it's oichel, there's no gezeiras
Shammai Yisrael. So, when it comes to
anavim and zeisim, even where it's
oichel, gezeiras Shammai Yisrael. Right?
Okay. But what's the point? The point
is, you see, when something is le schita
kayama, you have da'as Torah. Cuz
ultimately, you're going to be schochet
this. Or there's a good chance you're
going to be schochet this because of its
chashivus. Well, hachanami over here,
you have to say as it relates to a
beheima, given the le schita kayama,
being that at some point you're going to
want to schecht the animal because of
the fact right now you maybe don't want
to schecht it. But at some point you're
going to schecht it, you have da'as
Torah. At that point, you're going to
Therefore, we look at you right now as
if it being something that there's a
concern that you might schecht. And
here's the punchline. It's for that
reason it's going to be ossur le yom
tov.
In other words, the reason it's going to
be ossur le yom tov, says the Gemara in
the third attempt, is takke not because
of muktzeh le eido muktzeh. It's not
muktzeh, it's not noileh. It's simply
because you see that there's a gezeiras
Shammai Yisrael. Where do you see it?
You see it in Rebbe Yehuda's world. What
did Rebbe Yehuda say? Rebbe Yehuda says
usually something that's muchan le
oichel, I'm not worried about. But when
it comes to zeisim and anavim, on some
level you always view it as muchan le
mashkin. And therefore, there's always a
gezeiras Shammai Yisrael. Well, if
that's true for zeisim and anavim, it
has to be true for beheima also. The
relationship between schita and zeisim
and anavim is the same as the
relationship between schita and alive
animal. And if there's a chashash that
if we're going to allow you to take the
mashkin that yoitze me'eilav of zeisim
and anavim, that may cause you the
chashash to go go and do a schita, then
there has to be a chashash that if
you're going to allow you to go ahead
and eat the meat of an animal, this
should be gezera shema yishrach. And
that's the reason it's going to be
gezera shema yishrach. That's the third
shash. Not because of muktza, not
because of nevelah, but simply because
of a gezera shema yishrach. But the
gemara says it doesn't work.
You know why this doesn't work? Says the
Marcus Media who timer al Rav. Because
who is the one that said that our mishna
is going to be with Rav Yehuda?
It was the Nasvin Chavraya who were
coming to explain Rav. Rav was the one
that said assur b'achilah l'yom tov.
This is all in the world, this is in
Rav's bais medrash. Rav, who's the
Chavraya? It's Rav's bais medrash.
That's who is discussing this halacha.
And Omar Rav, Rav said chaluk al Rav
Yehuda b'basar l'yom tov min ha'am
ha'aretz. It's Rav Yehuda Omar Shmuel
that said this halacha. Wasn't Rav,
right? Rav Yehuda himself never said
he's moideh b'basar l'yom tov min ha'am
ha'aretz. Shmuel said that Rav Yehuda
was moideh b'basar l'yom tov min ha'am
ha'aretz. What about
what about Rav? Fakert. Chaluk [snorts]
al Rav Yehuda afilu b'basar l'yom tov
min ha'am ha'aretz. So you see in Rav's
world there's no gezera shema yishrach.
Yishrach. And if that's the case, there
should be no gezera shema yishrach. And
if that's the case, this can't be the
tzushat Rav Shmuel bar Rav Shishas b'Rav
Yidi. Rav Shishas b'Rav Yidi said, I'll
take the fourth and final attempt of
today's nafra Rav Yehuda the Narris. You
want to know which Rav Yehuda? It's Rav
Yehuda the Narris. And this is going to
now circle back to the
braysa min ha'am ha'aretz min ha'aretz
chodesh. A person is allowed to be
metalel min ha'aretz chodesh. Now this
ner that we're talking about over here,
Rashi says it's a ner that was made up
of earthenware. What's unique about a
ner shel cheres, a ner that's made of
earthenware, is that it gets very uh
dirty and greasy, right? It's it's
something that's very very moist. So the
braysa says, you're allowed to be
metalel a brand new ner chodesh, aval
yashan, not one that was used already.
Divrei Rav Yehuda. Azai held Rav Yehuda.
What's the yesod of Rav Yehuda? Rav
Yehuda holds that it's muktza machmas
mi'us. Something that's disgusting is
considered to be muktza.
So what do you see from here? Rebbe
Yehudah holds muktzah machmas mius.
What's the tzushta?
The Gemara's going to speak it out, but
you can't even go by there. What's the
tzushta? If Rebbe Yehudah holds of
muktzah machmas mius, kind of the Gemara
Rebbe Yehudah should also hold of
muktzah machmas issur. A live animal is
not mius, right? Maybe if you grew up in
Brooklyn, it is, but uh it was not
considered mius.
Uh ner, cheres, yashan is mius.
Okay, so what chai is? It's because
although a beheima is not mius, but a
beheima is assur. Why is it assur? What
do you do with a beheima? Eat it? Save
it in a machal? Shecht it? It's one of
the lam teslochos. So, it's
assur. Work with it in the field? Lab
the machanaim? Right, you can't do
anything with it. Shvitzos beheima. And
being that you can't do anything with
it, it's muktzah muktzah machmas issur.
So, the tzushta of Rebbe Rebbe Yehudah
was, you want to know which Rebbe
Yehudah again? We know Rebbe Yehudah is
a machmir muktzah. I know he also holds
muktzah machmas mius. If he holds
muktzah MACHMAS MIUS, IT'S MISTABER WE
DON'T HOLD MUKTZAH machmas issur also.
And what's what's the tzushta? Right,
I'm not touching this because it's
disgusting. I'm not touching this
because it's spiritually disgusting to
touch it. Because it's something that's
assur, right? Metamtem mesalei. It's
mius. I I I have to shacht it or
something, you say. I can't touch it.
But the Gemara says you see there's an
idea with Rebbe Yehudah's machmir
muktzah. Muktzah machmas mius it makes
sense. Muktzah machmas issur would be
the same thing. But the Gemara says
meichadei even the shabbos Rebbe Yehudah
holds muktzah machmas mius. Muktzah
machmas issur mishaneh way. Maybe dafka
muktzah machmas mius, not muktzah
machmas issur. The Gemara says ain no,
that is an incorrect dikhoy. The ten
year cuz we learned in the braysa Rebbe
Yehudah says, "Kol nerous she matres
All nerous that are made of matres." So,
here you have a ner that's made of
matres. By the way, in the loshon of
chazal, a ner is not the actual candle.
The ner is the lamp, right? Where the
candle is. So, you have the ner of
cheres and the ner of matres. I thought
a ner was made of wax, right? No. So,
the ner over here that's made of matres.
And what's the significance that it's
made of matres? It doesn't get
disgusting. So, all nerous of matres
metaltelin chutz min haner shehadli
with the exception of a near that you
live in the beginning of Shabbos. Now,
who's saying this
Rabbi Yehuda says, you know, I have a
shita that a near shall Harris you not
allowed to touch. Near shall mattress,
that's fine. That's meows. That's not
meows. But, if you lit the near between
us and Shabbos, so when Shabbos came, it
was
the near is or one of the near is that
you had lit, then it's going to be an
issue. Why? It's the same not meows. All
the parrots is cuz you weren't allowed
to touch it then cuz if you would move a
candle on Shabbos, there's a concern
that it may be extinguished. So, because
of a
kiboy is a krashi, therefore, you're not
allowed to
touch it. That's muktza machmas is also
it's meforash Rabbi Yehuda holds muktza
machmas is the right to tzushtal of
meows to is a mega tzei. But, I have a
meforash Rabbi Yehuda that said muktza
machmas is that for sure this must be a
the Rabbi Yehuda. You want to know why I
Shabbos because of shero, but it's
giving a surly
it's because Rabbi Yehuda holds muktza
machmas is and the animal was it was
muktza
is that no you allowed me to address all
those points. But, at the same time, at
the same time, it was muktza muktza
machmas is and the I don't think it's a
tzushtal cuz it's a shiny awesome. Maybe
over there although you have a muktza
Rabbi Yehuda holds muktza machmas is,
maybe dafka there the who dafka maybe
you die. When he was dafka maybe you
die. When you light the candle before
Shabbos, you did a ma'aser to be dafka
to say that I'm not going near this as
opposed to as opposed to a behema where
you didn't do anything be a dying. So,
being that you didn't do anything be a
dying, maybe over there there's no
alacha of muktza machmas is.
Either way, the gamora enacts out this
fourth attempt and we're going to stop
here again. What's the sikum of the daf?
The first part of the daf dealt with
suma. We're going to get to that now in
literally 1 second.
The second part of the daf dealt with
hashoycheis b'Shabbos ub'Yom Kippur. The
mishna said, "Af al pi she a sky but not
sure she tossed it [ __ ] standing there.
The full of the set that three
in the name of the great rab that even
though she tossed it [ __ ] a suit by
why would it be also during the day the
[ __ ] is kosher if there's no
what would be the problem? Oh, how many
rab you who do the question was which
rab you who do we went through a full
rab you who does the first rab you do we
went through was that rab you who do
holds that if you and the dog is on
Shabbos you're not allowed to feed it to
the dogs. Why cuz it wasn't
club him but it was a Shabbos here too.
If you
on Shabbos you should be able to feed it
to people cuz it wasn't
all the man Shabbos. Tomorrow is like
that because it's clear that rab you who
do she do is that a live animal is
considered
what's the right to that? The right is
from the fact that you allowed to
we know she does rab you who do is in
greater which was a big part of today's
the second attempt of the tomorrow was
that rab you who do has a street that if
a key breaks on Shabbos the only time
you allowed to continue to use it is if
you can use it in
that's the contrast that I say as long
as you use it
that's going to be okay. What do you see
from here that the only time something
is considered
is if it didn't require any tick but if
you were able to use this it was
to be used but it required a tick on for
this particular
that
is going to be awesome. An animal could
be
but you can't argue with the fact that
it required a street or which is a tick
on. So if that's the case or you see rab
you who do holds that that would be a
problem in the world of
was like this the more I said that's a
poor understanding of that she does rab
you who do the reason rab you who do
holds that a key that breaks has to be
able to be used
cuz otherwise it's going to be
it's never considered to be an issue.
The more had a a third rab you who do
and that is rab you who do who has a she
do in the world of mashkin and pirus.
Whether you allowed to use it or not
allowed to use it. But Rebbi Yehuda
Rebbi Yehuda agrees that if someone has
an oven and mashkin comes out, not
allowed to drink it because we're
concerned you may go do shita from the
zaysim and the oven. Tiny is the gemara.
Seems like a good analogy. If you have
animal that on its own or by mistake
ended up shachut, I shouldn't be allowed
to eat it because of the concern I might
do shita. I can't drink the mashkin from
the
zaysim and the oven because of the shach
I might do shita. I can't eat the basar
from this beheima because of the shach I
may go ahead and do shita. So it must be
a wonderful tushia. This is an amazing
Rebbi Yehuda tushia. The problem is
Rav is the one whose bais medrash is
handling this whole shaila and Rav
doesn't agree with that statement.
Shmuel was the one that said it in the
world of Rebbi Yehuda,
not Rav. And therefore, for a technical
reason, that can't be the pshat. The
fourth malacha the gemara said was that
Rebbi Yehuda holds of muktza machmas
issur. So I think an animal is muktza
machmas issur because now you can do it
in an animal really on Shabbos. So based
on that, it should be considered muktza.
The gemara says the whole makor that
Rebbi Yehuda holds of muktza machmas
issur is when you would be your dying.
Being that over here you aren't your
dying, maybe over here it's going to be
different. Either way, that is the kol
of today's
daf, which again we're leaving in the
middle of the daf b'ezras Hashem, part
two, which is the lighter part of the
sugya,
we're going to learn tomorrow. But as it
relates to rate,
just to speak out
two parts.
So the first part of the daf, the way
way way easier part of the daf,
discussed
whether or not a suma is allowed to
shachut. And the truth is it's in the
first mishnah. Hashechut balaila v'chein
hasuma sheshachat shchitasah kasheira.
The mishnah is m'vuer that a suma is
kasher l'shchita, albeit b'di'ev. Not
surprisingly, this stam
that has no one that argues with it in
the Gamara is brought down in Shulchan
Aruch. The Machaber in Yoreh De'ah Siman
Aleph Sif Tes says Suma Lo Yishkot
Lechat'chila. Elem Kein Acherim Royin
Oisa. Ve'im Shochet Shechitaso Ksheira.
So this
Halacha Pesuka of the Mishna in Chulin
Daf Mem Beis Mem Beis is also Halacha
Pesuka in Shulchan Aruch in Yoreh De'ah
Hilchos Shechita Siman Aleph Sif Tes.
Rebbi Akiva Eiger in his Agoyis on this
Halacha asks a question with four
answers.
Akiva Eiger says we know there's a Shita
in Shas, it's the Shita of Rebbi Yehuda
ironically, who holds that a Suma
is Poter Min Hamitzvos.
Great Rebbi Akiva Eiger, the Beis Yosef
in the name of the Rosh says that we're
Chayish
Leshitas Rebbi Yehuda Vehalacha. It's
based on the Rebbi Yeruchem who says
that the Halacha is like Rebbi Yehuda
and the Beis Yosef says that even though
we don't Pasken like Rebbi Yeruchem and
of course a Suma is Chayiv in Mitzvos,
but at the same time we're Chayish
Me'iyavoi and it's for that reason in
areas of Halacha we're always Chayish
for the Shita of Rebbi Yehuda that holds
that a Suma is Poter Min Hamitzvos. If
that's the case, great Rebbi Akiva
Eiger, how could the Machaber Pasken?
How could the Beis Yosef say that a Suma
will be at the DF or be at if Acherim
Royin Oisa is a Ladas Shach? To the
extent that we have to BE CHAYISH TO THE
Shita of Rebbi Yehuda that a Suma is
Poter Min Hamitzvos, if he's Poter Min
Hamitzvos it means he's not a Bar
Mitzva. And if he's not a Bar Mitzva,
then Hadar Dina he's like an Oved
Kochavim. And an Oved Kochavim, that was
the Mishna in yesterday's Daf, Shechitas
Oved Kochavim is Navela. SO IF THAT'S
THE CASE, HOW could the Shulchan Aruch
say that a Suma is a Ladas Shach?
Vecha'eira, Leshitas Rebbi Yehuda that a
Suma is Poter Min Hamitzvos, a Suma
doesn't need Shechita. If he doesn't
shrita, he's mamish like an eved
kena'ani. If he's like an eved kena'ani,
that means he's not about z'chut. If
he's not about z'chut,
so that means he's not allowed to
shecht. And his shrita should be shrita
as a neveila. As
a kushya atzum, says Rav Akiva Eiger,
it's muchrach from here. Oh, you saw
that the acharonim talk about in
different places, and that is that even
Rebbi Yehuda that holds that a suma is
patur min hamitzvos, it's only from
mitzvos assei, it's not from mitzvos lo
sa'asei. And if you hold that a suma is
really chayav in mitzvos lo sa'asei, so
comes out he has the lav of neveila. He
might not have the assei of shrita, and
we can clarify he has the lav of
assei of shrita, but the lo sa'asei of
neveila that he certainly has. And being
that he has the lav of neveila, says Rav
Akiva Eiger, he's a bar achrayus z'chut.
If he's a bar achrayus z'chut, for that
reason it's And Rav Akiva Eiger this is
a raya she'eina of tzuva al nias da'ati
to the shitos that hold that even Rebbi
Yehuda that holds that a suma is patur
min hamitzvos, it just means that a suma
is patur from mitzvos assei, but avada,
he's going to be chayav in mitzvos lo
sa'asei.
This Rav Akiva Eiger is a maforsam Rav
Akiva Eiger. Last machsom, we had two
great bites on this Rav Akiva Eiger.
I was thinking about Rav Akiva Eiger
yesterday. It mamish bothered me.
I mamish don't understand Rav Akiva
Eiger.
I mamish don't understand it. Hashem
yoreina.
Rav Akiva Eiger had a halacha in
Shulchan Aruch that says a suma is
allowed to shecht. Rav Akiva Eiger,
according to Rebbi Yehuda, a suma is not
a bar achrayus z'chut. And if a suma is
not a bar achrayus z'chut, so why is a
a suma allowed to shecht?
Why is a cherish shoteh or katan allowed
to shecht?
A cherish shoteh or katan are also patur
min hamitzvos cuz they're not bnei
z'chut. Rebbi Yehuda, a suma patur min
hamitzvos is more than A CHERISH SHOTEH
OR KATAN THAN AN AV PATUR min hamitzvos.
And a filu achi, a cherish shoteh or
katan are allowed to shecht. NOW, WHY?
THAT'S THE TZUVA OF REBBI YEHUDA. That's
the shach in siman alef. Come come in
the shul to be meyashev. Why a cherish
shoteh or katan are allowed to shecht?
And why don't we say that
I consider it to be
so if that's THE CASE
WHAT IS
GOING TO BE
SO WHY IS THIS
IS NOT
THAT'S
THE DISCUSSION IN THE FIRST
THAT'S THE
THIS IS WHAT THE
DISCUSSES IN HIS
physical
and he is
all the time I am discussing THIS FAMOUS
FAMOUS FAMOUS
SO WHAT'S
did
find in the of that all of a sudden
the signature
the safest way to do it was written
written
by
Rabbi [snorts] summer garbous schliter
great going to be
and on this
Mishnah
that's like
this is what he says Rabbi Eiger
cost of like me that the after this is
part of the business we come walking in
the sun the love hockey a nice classic
Shira a lot of Shira who the SHIRA SHIRA
SHIRA SHIRA
THE SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA
SHIRA SHIRA Shira Shira the Shira Shira
Shira SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA
AND THEN IF YOU Shira Shira Shira Shira
Shira Shira Shira BUT SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA
SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA SHIRA
SHIRA Shira Shira Shira
but I thought about it I think the Shira
Shira Shira Shira Shira Shira Shira
Shira Shira Shira Shira this is Rabbi
Eiger that's Shira Shira I think it's
Shira Shira Shira Rabbi Eiger means and
that is why is it that
I consider to be a a
Shira I Shira Shira Shira Shira Shira
Shira Shira so we spoke yesterday from
the Shira Shira that the Shira Shira
said that the reason is because in as
much as the Shira Shira Shira Shira
Shira Shira Shira Shira and that's why
you find the Shira Shira Shira Shira
Shira Shira Shira Shira Shira in the
world of stam or chaim simon lam a test.
But at the same time, there's a love of
lo sachilum. And because there's a love
of lo sachilum, so it's for that reason
he's considered to be in the parisha of
zvikha because even though he himself,
the cheresh and the shaitan the cotton
are not muzar kishal atzman to not be
able to go ahead and eat in the veil,
but at the same time gedoilim are muzar
to make sure that the katanim are going
to eat. And by the way, we didn't speak
this yesterday, but that's poshit it's
mevorar from the noideh bihudah that
this halacha lo sachilum is not only
true for a cotton, right? Even though
it's always la hazik gedolim al katanim.
He sees true for a cheresh and it's true
for a shaitan as well. And the reason is
because if it's only true for a cotton
then the noideh bihudah only answered a
third of the kasha, right? The kasha is
all cheresh, shaitans, and cottons are
kosher to shrecht, albeit if you check
off all the right boxes. What do you
mean? They're not going to eat zvikha.
The teres is lo sachilum. One second,
that's all good la hazik gedolim al
katanim. But what's going to be with a
cheresh and a shaitan? It's muchakh
meforash in in the noideh bihudah this
way it is. And emes is we spoke out
years ago an epic chuvah from the
hilchos shabbos and this is in the
noideh chaim simon pegimmel. It's one of
the chuvahs I'm for summers where there
was a shaitan there was an eitzah maybe
for this shaitan to have a refuah by
sending him to some rehab facility. The
problem was they were going to serve him
non-kosher meat. And the shabbos shaitan
wrote a whole chuvah whether it's okay,
it's not okay, it's a nifla digga
chuvah. And toich divarav he says one
thing.
It's a meforash shabbos shaitan. And
emes is I looked around a little bit I
found that the bes shaiyis of the end of
yud daled simon kuf nun zayin brings it
meforash bishaim rabbeinu yerucham. It
comes from the rishonim but IT'S MUCHAKH
IT JUMPED OFF THE NOIDEH BIHUDAH
YESTERDAY. But the bottom line is so
that's poshit that there's a love of lo
sachilum when it comes to a cheresh,
shaitan, and a cotton. And the noideh
bihudah said that's the beer why we view
a cheresh, shaitan, and a cotton as
being as being
Bar Zviha?
And we mentioned yesterday that really
this lady be who does a shach. And even
though the shach is a little bit
awesome, but in Siman Aleph of Katan
Chazan, the shach seems to be saying
what the lady would be saying. If you
take a look at the Pri Megadim, who was
a contemporary of the lady, the Pri
Megadim says before was the shach of the
Megadim is what the lady would be
saying. I mean, he doesn't call him a
lady. But he says THIS FAR, IT'S BECAUSE
of Yevamot Kuf Yud Daled. It's based on
the love of Lo Yisa'eh. So the yesod of
why a cheresh of a katan are considered
Bar Zviha, it's because of the fact that
there's a love of Lo Yisa'eh. Here's the
shaila.
Does a shochet have Lo Yisa'eh? Does a
ashuma of the lady who does have Lo
Yisa'eh? So my Muslim Rishon Shai Shli
Shi was of course, why wouldn't he have
Lo Yisa'eh? But I think it's a tois
gado. I think it's a tois awesome. You
know why?
What's the whole yesod of Lo Yisa'eh?
The yesod of Lo Yisa'eh is there's a
cheresh of a katan. We would love for a
cheresh of a katan to be chayev mitzvot.
Not of us, we're pattering him. Why are
we pattering him? He doesn't have das. A
cheresh is considered what? They don't
have the das to be nizer entire mitzvot.
And because they don't have the das to
be nizer entire mitzvot, it's for that
reason the Torah exempted them from
entire mitzvot. Stating that there's a
mussar of Lo Yisa'eh. AND LO YISA'EH
SAYS
WITH A KATAN AND THE LADY WHO DOES SOME
sort of say the cheresh and shochet as
well, but they don't have das to be
nizer by themselves, so we have a
responsibility and we have an obligation
to go ahead and be responsible FOR THEM.
WE WISH THEY WOULD KEEP ENTIRE MITZVOT.
Not of us, THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO. SO
THERE'S AN INDIAN OF LO YISA'EH.
NOW WHY IS IT ONLY TRUE FOR LO YISA'EH
and not Assei? You know, we settle for
Katan and he SAYS SORRY HIM.
I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHAT THE CHILIK IS.
BY THE WAY, WHAT WE DID MENTION
yesterday is the Gadol says a very
simple pshat. He says that when a person
does a Lo Yisa'eh, there's a chashash
that when you get older you'll continue
to do the Lo Yisa'eh. By an Assei,
there's no pshat of Lo Yisa'eh.
By Lo Yisa'eh, there's a chashash of Lo
Yisa'eh. By an Assei, there's a We spoke
about maybe it's related the
the
here's the bottom line. The bottom line
is the whole year of
we have a
we want them very much to be able to
keep
nervous nervous that then I
they don't have the ability to do so. So
therefore
assume I feel I leave it to
has thus. HE COULD TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF
I don't want to take care of him. He
could TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF AND I FEEL
THAT HAS A THAT IS A
SO
THAT IS A SO THAT IS A DESPITE THE FACT
THAT HE COULD TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF. What
does that mean? IT MEANS HE'S IN A
SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME THERE'S
A
DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE YOU CAN'T EVEN
SAY IT. WHY WOULD THERE BE A
SOMEONE THAT WE ASK HIM ONE should keep
this NOT THAT HE CAN'T be
in a
so there's a so there's
A SO COULD TAKE CARE OF himself with
this BUT THE SAID I FEEL YOU
WHAT SO I'M
IF
THE AVAILABLE BUT YOU can't feed me in a
makes no sense there's no
if [laughter] the doesn't care about me
eating the
so why would the have a problem WITH
SOMEBODY ELSE FEEDING ME in a
the whole point is by the
THE
THE WAY WE
IS NOT THAT THE DOESN'T CARE IF HE EATS
THE HE JUST can't be cuz he's not about
so good so good that's the rate but the
but the bottom LINE IS WE CARE about
him as a result where he can't be
comes to game
it says he should BE
A BUT IT'S A AND I SAID I LOVE
BY A SO I LEAVE IT TO IS built in
motion. WHY WOULD THAT BE THE CASE? THE
DOESN'T have a problem with him eating
the available but the has a problem WITH
YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE ISSUES OF LOVE AND
THEN YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE ISSUES OF
LOVE. WHY ARE YOU NOT WORRIED? WHY?
THAT'S JUST whatever that is WHATEVER
THAT IS
>> [laughter]
>> SOME PEOPLE THAT TREAT THIS
THIS IS OKAY
IF THERE'S NO
IT'S POSSIBLE to make a BIG
DIFFERENCE. YOU KNOW HOW TO WRITE THE
COTTON. YOU KNOW HOW TO WRITE
THE SMART of the
it's possible you know it's a shot with
the people that have the shot. These are
the biggest
always can you all know all this rate of
the biggest new that you do the cotton
is considered
why? BECAUSE OF
BUT ALSO
THE BIGGEST WAS THAT I DON'T THINK
SIMILAR
HAS
I WHAT DO YOU MEAN? IT'S NOT ONLY true
for cotton. It's also true for the shot
can we go into
the night to be going to say that it's
really
YEAH BUT THAT'S THE SHOT
THAT THE REASON THEY'RE PUTTING THEM IN
IS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT DOES AND BEING
THAT IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT WHEN THEY
DON'T have the love when they don't have
a bit of shot it's not what they don't
know how to be in the zone I think they
don't KNOW HOW TO BE IN THE ZONE. You
just the whole concept of telling a
person be careful don't feed this person
himself right? It's a day to DAY
EVEN WHEN YOU ARE MICHAEL HIM IN ALMOST
EVERY SINGLE CASE. The whole concept of
telling him is a little built in moving
when it comes to a person
and it could be the whole concept of
telling a person
the whole concept
was coming not the whole concept not the
whole concept
not all this rate and that's what the
concept said I understand the concept
What I don't understand what I don't
understand is why would what I don't
understand is why would a person be
different. I was discussing this
yesterday with you and he said
maybe you can bring a
from the whole concept that
the whole concept is a very famous he
said that even according to the whole
concept that the whole concept is
but he said the whole concept
right? That's what the whole concept
said and the whole concept is washing is
like this the whole concept the whole
concept the whole concept the whole
concept the whole
>> If you're not going to tell him that
he's highly Mr. Rabona, and he's mom IS
A [ __ ]
IF THERE'S A
WHEN IT COMES TO A SUMA, DOES IT pass to
say that he's a free and he
either way it's just a
but I think as it relates to and
portion of
the held that the Harris site of a
cotton are considered by
because of the fact that there's a lot
of
Rab is being
to us in this area. is that there's no
when it comes to a Suma, what would be
the I need to push it. By the Harris
site of a cotton with the reason that
part of this cuz they don't have that.
So they don't make sense to my partner.
But the Suma DOES. THE SUMA COULD TAKE
CARE OF HIMSELF AND I FEEL
so what BECAUSE NOW YOU HAVE a God that
has does and he knows to be careful for
you. Then I don't have to BE CAREFUL FOR
MYSELF. WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL
for me? It's something that's a lot of
elements state to in Suma a different
reason. It's Suma there's another
creature over here. I have to say a Suma
is considered by
for something a little more fundamental
to the sheet that hold that a Suma is
highly
if a Suma is highly and again just
just to throw out a little bit of raid.
We are going to stop here.