CHAZARAH - Chullin Daf 17 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

[music] [screaming] >> We learned in the Mishnah how called Shochetin Maybe I've over two in there. What What What does it mean? So, we're holding on daf yud zayin amud aleph. Hello Omar of Yosaif, I want to tell you what lo olam Shochetin means. What does lo olam mean? Forever you do Shchitah. It goes You're going to come a time and you're going to do Zvichah, you're going to Shochet. Says Rebbe Akiva in the Midbar, we used to do something called Nechirah. Does anybody know what Nechirah is? No, but literally Nechirah is like this. According to one Rashi, and I like the one the most, is doing Shchitah instead of this way, you're going from from the neck from the chin towards the chest of the animal. You're cutting it this way. That's Nechirah. You're saying shooting the head, I hear. So, that according to Rebbe Akiva, that was mutar in the Midbar. According to Rebbe Shmuel, that was also in the Midbar. It's fundamental machlokes here. According to Rebbe Akiva, that's how they they would they would kill the animal like that. They would kill the animals and eat them. So, the Torah says, "Hey, now you're in Eretz Yisrael, behave. Let's do Shchitah." In the beginning, you were allowed to just kill the animal in the Midbar. It was allowed in Eretz Yisrael beside Nechirah. Once Benny, do me a favor, just lower it to the next one. So, once they came into Israel, they said it's also. Mission necklace of heads. Nesselheim and the hero Bob should go Lulu. Oh, so we can continue. In the midbar, they would do the hero. They come to Israel also the hero. Now they went into goals. Maybe she could you could eat the hero. Cut it, slice it, do whatever, cut the head off without the [ __ ] shnitzel. Now I understand what the words are oilum shaikatem. Is forever. Be careful. What? No, it's good. Oilum shaikatem. Shkida you have to do shkida. You can't go back to to the hero. Then I give him what's a big what what's the here. Then I give him beside title leads a cloud. So, according to Kiva that was never also. So, Kiva holds that was a title wasn't wasn't also. And then may love the title comes to say be careful with the hero. The title beside title there's no there was never more to take the hero. So, when the title came and the title says now you have to do you have to you have to do shkida. So, it's talking about a carbon this is the shachat is been a bocker. When they're in the when they're in the I'm sorry, when they're in the midbar. Hello Kiva my shachat. You're in the midbar you have to do the hero. So, what is the shachat mean? Cut from shiny. The title is telling you in the midbar you have to shachat carbonus. You're only way you can do the hero. Again, the hero tap the bottom slight shoot in the head like he said. Hello the Kiva According to Akiva, they could slice I don't want to show myself because you see that's why you are allowed to learn chulin. But instead of shechting this way, the neck, you shecht this way. So the Gemara may have So why does it say the loshon schitah when according to Akiva you're allowed to do nechirah? Why just cut it open and kill it? So the Gemara says nechirah is like schitah. So when the Torah says schitah it means nechirah. If somebody did schitah and they did they did hagramah, chaladah, all the things that passul schitah, it ruins it. V'hanocheir. Oh, it says the word nocheir, meaning he cut it the wrong direction. V'ma'akeir, he he pulls out the simanim and potar milchasis. You don't have to do kisuy hadam. Now, kisuy hadam only applies to a chayah and an ayif. You don't have to do kisuy hadam on a chayah and an ayif. Elah Akiva, my potar milchasis. If it's permitted to do nechirah, so that that's part of the schitah, that's what you do. So it's you killed a let's say a deer with nechirah, why shouldn't you do kisuy hadam? So the Gemara says it's it's a it's a You're right. It's talking about in our days. This this this Mishnah is saying if the nechirah happened in our days where nechirah is assur, so therefore it's not considered a schitah, it's not considered a schitah. So you don't have to do kisuy hadam. In chanam in the midbar, they didn't have to do kisuy hadam. But the Mishnah comes after the midbar. The Mishnah is saying in our days when you do nichur, you don't have to do kisuy hadam. Mishnah Akiva d'ol amar b'sart ayil it's a klal. Had it to say achas sheyochal hatzvi. According to Akiva, you're always allowed to eat b'sart ayil. Stam, what does b'sart ayil mean again? B'sart ayil means you're allowed to eat shecht an animal like we do today and eat the meat. You don't chef a carbon and have an excuse why you're bringing a carbon to shul and then you eat the steaks that are left over. You stamp chef the animal. You're allowed to eat this twee, this deer, when you're tame. Can't claim it. That's how just like you did then, today also you should you could continue eating basar ta'avah. According to Yishmael, there's no such thing as bring as eating a deer in the midbar. Why? Cuz the only time you could eat a deer, any animal in the midbar, is what according to Yishmael? Only a carbon. And you can't bring a deer as a carbon. So, there was never a matzah of eating a deer in the midbar. So, what does it mean? Just like you ate a deer in the midbar, so you're going to continue eating deer in Bnei Brak. Doesn't work like that. As ta'avah. Why? Cuz the beheima they didn't eat. Why? Because you could you could bring it as a carbon. If you bring it as a carbon, you're not shachting stam for your own. But since you can't bring a deer as a carbon, so you could shacht it stam and eat it. Interesting question here. What happens with meat that gets stuck in your freezer in two different periods of Klal Yisrael? See, you shacht an animal, you cut it up you shoot it in the head, you package it, put it in the freezer, and it's beshmach, you're allowed to eat it cuz you're in the midbar. And then you go into then you go into Eretz Yisrael. You have all this meat that's that never had shchita, and now you have to do shchita. Are you allowed to eat the meat or not? That's the question. What's non-fixed now thinking task? I'm fixed what's the ask the man of community we're not in the middle we're not we're not going to as well. Oh. So Rashi answers that you write it's not a good task today. What's a cool question? It's a very interesting question. You had you had exactly you had meat that was mammoth motor to you because you changed the rules of how meat is and how that actually is and and now also we have the chef. I didn't have the chef yesterday. So when I bought it from Benny's meat or whatever it was back then it was great meat. It was kosher meat. Now not. So he says a mass let's just read inside but every beside a hero you cut up this animal you didn't even chef it you just chopped them up while he's alive. She needs to be a normal artist and they brought it in why should they why should they go to waste? Now what's that a mass tell me exactly when this happened? Even if it's a seven years old if it's the seven years that when they went into Israel the latter eat a hazard So why are you saying hazard? You say you say a lion say something that's not as disgusting as a hazard. The more says it. Who's the hazard the smoke of fat of the hazard that you used to eat? Beside the hero by oh if you let it hazard so beside the hero by of course you can eat a cow that was killed incorrectly. If you let it hazard you let it a cow that that that didn't have a good shiva. A lot of them can so we're talking about is my mistake good freezer or like they pickle this meat really well. So when from the middle bar eight years into Israel you boys have a lot of shiva give shiva No, even the first seven years of kibbutz, he used to rule schloss of [ __ ] Only when you you grab the chazzan from a [ __ ] are you allowed to eat it. The history but if you had treif meat in your freezer, I could never give you a heter for that. Maybe take all I don't have a great answer for that. All my rather. Again, going back to here. I call Shrek them we already said means even chicken. Why don't you we said besarnakhira there's no heter to ever eat besarnakhira in the future. You always going to have to do shrita. Now I need to know what's missing on this list. I call Shrek them. I call Shrek them I am a shot of say what what what exactly is this? We can be sorry but Shrek is maybe Shrek on it. It means all these different utensils with a with a stone, with glass, with Shrek on it. We we we are getting into technical things about the knife. Good Shrek stuff. She says I call Shrek them I am a shot of say I do Wait a minute. If you go back to this list so I call Shrek them has to be similar to I call Shrek them Shrek them. And what's that? You're saying that you talking about the animal. Not not the the device. Talking about what type of has to be chicken, even chicken and the and the regular animal you have to do shrita too. All three things on the list have to be referring to the same thing. If you're talking about devices so then you're talking about the the thing that does shrita what you're doing shrita with. So then the top tools have to be talking about the knives. If you're talking about what is shechted the animal, so then the third one on the bottom also has to be talking about an animal. You just told me, "No, it's talking about a piece of glass, talking about a piece of this." We're talking about animals now. What? Exactly. Pick a lane. Love it. Uh we have to be consistency. Be consistent. If the two on the top are talking about a certain thing, so then the one on the bottom also. You can't pick and choose. So, therefore says the Gemara, So, he says, "Oh, hakol shochtim is referring to the shochet, not the animal. We're not talking about chicken, all that a chicken needs to be done. We're talking about that even a Kusi could do shchita. Even Yisrael Mumar could do shchita that we had the sugias about." Loidim shochtim, again referring to top of the top of the the roof on the on the on the ship. Like he said, you know, might be have a desire on both of them. Bakol shochtim. Bein basur, bein basochin, bein bakruvin. So, these are all not referring to the animal. These are all technical things of how to do shchita. You could do it with a rock, you could do it with glass, you could do it with a reed. Chutz mimagal katzir. So, you're not allowed to do shchita with a magal katzir, not a magera, with a with a saw. Says the Gemara an interesting thing. Avud Shmuel pagam bashoder, pagam bashoder. He took a knife We're going to need this, so might as well multi get ready. He took a knife and made a nick here, nick here, nick here, a bunch of nicks. Sends it to Eretz Yisrael. Tell me psak on nick one, on nick two. He did this a number of times. He kept on sending knives. Rashi says each knife had a bunch of different gimels, different types. We're going to see different pictures of what a gimel looks like. So, now Rabbonon, and here we go, Raboisai. Baruch Hashem, that we have crazy brand new pictures even in our Gamara in the official edition Gamara we have nice pictures. Sacking shays bug paguima's harba tidden kimagera. If it has a bunch of nicks all over the place then you got to treat it like a saw. Saw's no good. If it only has one paguima or geras psula. So we have like this. We have an geras we'll see in a second what it is. Or geras psula misuchseches ksheira. Hecha dami or geras? Hecha dami misuchseches? What does it mean? Or geras mishte l'chais givuldi. Here we go. Basically it has it's a V a V shape in. So if you think about [clears throat] it when you have a V shape not a saw not the V shape like this but an inverted V. Yeah, let me show you again. This. In other words a piece of the knife is missing. So what happens is if you go in slow motion the knife softens up or weakens up the skin. And then when it hits the set the second part of the V that is going to rip the skin and that's the problem. The problem is ripping of the skin not a smooth cut. That's awesome. So let's see it in here. Let's see how that works. Yeah, I mean I That's that's that's a saw. That's a magera. Okay, so we don't have that yet. And kimagera. Right? You see the pieces falling out meaning it's not cut nicely. She says the Gamara Omar laws or geras mishte l'chais it has a V like this. And a missing the the the metal from here. So, it hits the the skin twice. By the time it gets to the corner, it hits the skin, gets to the corner, and rips the corner. It only has It doesn't have a real V. It has a little a one dip. One dip, not two dips. It's not like this. It's just like this. Just one Let me see the Gamara for a second how we did it. It says the Gamara the more should come or not come. What happens is the first If I could maybe take a here, a laser. This This part right over here weakens the skin, and this part over here cuts. It says the Gamara The more should master or not master. The second one rips the the the the the corner. The more should master or not master. So, too, if you only have one one thing like this, the more should master or not master. You only have one. So, what happens? Whoever does the cutting or not cutting. Think about it. The knife cuts very deep into the skin. By the time you have that one little guy like a What do you call What's a great way to like a like a hanger, like a cliffhanger, like a This indentation is going to grab. You could literally see how this knife is terrible. It's going Once it hits that this piece right over here, it that this piece is going to pull instead of cut. It's going to pull and sever the rip. It's going to rip the the the simanim instead of cutting them nicely. It has a hook in it. What's the difference as the Gamorah of it has two or one? It's the same exact idea. Says the Gamorah, the commemoration of the Sakina. Let's see if we have it, or maybe that's it. Oh, here. No. Here we go. It's all the way at the end of the knife. By the time you get there, nothing happens. I don't care where it is. So, it's all the way at the end. It's right over here. Great. But, when it gets there, that's going to pull and rip the the seamona. Says the Gamorah, he going to highlight the heavy. He started. He went forward with the knife. So, in other words, that little hook at the end never touches the animal. If he went back, then it would pull on the skin. And but, he only went one motion forward. Here, let me I'll demonstrate it. No khidish that you allowed to use it. The The khidish is that if it was two, if it two, it would be a problem. If this is where it is, this is where the problem is. So, he's going And this is the neck of the animal. He goes forward like that. But, if he would pull back, that's where the issue would happen. Then, this would pull on the skin. But, all he all he's doing is one motion like this. Okay, now goes now we're going to fly. Omer over Sholish Milin Bisakin. Oy Geresh Lo Yishkot. If it has this indentation of V, you can't do shchita with it. Bimsholash Tzatzei Tzulal. If you do, you use it, pasul. Misoch Sechach is if it only has one pull on it, one thing, Lo Yishkot Balok Pilo. You shouldn't You shouldn't sh Here, this is the khidish now. Bimsholash She Does It Because Lo Khidish Shouldn't Use It. But, you could you could do a work-around and try not to bump into that thing. Okay, but you shouldn't use such a knife. Oy Lo Yireh Bisakin. If you have something like this in a knife, it looks at the shape. I think the Gamorah might be a little nicer. It's easier to leave it, but it's not going to be nice on this thing. Let me see. Okay. No, cuz there's no shadow. The shadow is is a little whatever. Okay. If it goes up and down, so it's Gamorah not a problem. So, you know what the killer I guess eventually all knives are going to have not it this is an exaggerated one, but when you do a lot of sh- shiza uh sharpening hashkaza, thank you. Then I guess you know something happens to that's not a problem. Show me what the killer all my ready ready ready ready ready ready ready ready ready I was the mission of mission of solo. On the one hand rubber says if you have this indentation, it's possible. On the chair on the other hand the rubber himself says it's kosher. Like I can't show you the baby. Can't show you the baby. You go back and forth, it's a problem. Cuz it's going to grab, but if you only want in one direction, it's fine. I'm going to have you down in the sauce of my. What if it's like I don't know if you ever had the privilege of holding a piece of grain in your hand? Not of the the grain, but the whole thing. You know with the little whiskers that come out of it? So, it's it's very like tiny little thorns on it or like it's very very not smooth. So, what if the knife is very not smooth? So, he says I'd love to have such meat from such a shkita. It's great stuff. In other words, it's perfect shkita. I'm going to kiss the way you see checking of the knife in the Torah, she never would have gotten both of them. The Halakha So, I said he takes up the knife and he says, "This is what you're going to like this." It seems like from the possible buzzer here, like this. So, the Shulchan Aruch brings over here buzzer is 12. And he says that a knife has to be 12 thumb lengths. 1 2 12. And from and he brings a you know, like a riot from this buzzer like the gematria buzzer. And the Rama says that if a Shochet doesn't know that Halakha he's possible for Shchita. Shchita given the Chinuch of what do you need the possible ask the Mar? If the if the knife has a a neck of it a pegima in it it's pulling and ruining the the simanim. That's the Shchita. I don't need a possible tell me that. Given the Chinuch of treif by by dikka. So, the Mar of the Chokhmah what do you see in the Torah they have to go show to a Talmud Chokhmah a Rav. So, the Mar what do you mean? The Halakha second Chokhmah knife for the Shochet Chokhmah. You don't need to show the Rav. It's only to give him a honor. So, the Mar you're right. We mean the Rabbanan it's not a Halakha. It's only a a the Rabbanan kind of thing that that they have to go show the Rav and and the possible is only in a Smicha. So, the Mar of the Mar of the Bat Chilo of Shimsha. This is Mar this is going to gross some people out. You would take the knife and put it in the sun and then you look on the ground. And you see in the ground this is not going to gross anybody out. The next thing coming up. All right, let's see over here what he did. He he's he's he's showing you this way Rashi says in the shadow. You look at the shadow on the ground. I'm doing it right now. Okay. Let's see maybe. Oh, that's the second shot in in Russia. Very good. So, like that, you can see it. What's next? Maya. That's one shot in Russia. You put it over the thing. I like the second shot better. Let's see who does the second shot. Yes. Perfect. Put a drip of water on the top. Oh. It's very very good schmaltz. So, these are the That's how you do it. Now, let's see if he has the third way to do the b'dika. No. I wonder why. That would have been good schmaltz. So, let's see inside. I have a volunteer tell me he wants to do it. So, get ready. B'mayo b'dika b'shimsha. B'nardo b'dika b'mayo. In other they use the salt. In other they use the water. Rav Shisha b'dika b'reisha d'shana. Can you imagine you put your tongue on the edge of the knife? Uh even even for ratings I'm not I'm not I'm not asking you to do it. Yeah, we're getting there. Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak b'dika b'chuta d'sara. Rav Yitzchak Where am I? Rav Yitzchak bar bar Yitzchak b'dika b'chuta d'sara you take a little here and run it down and see if it gets stuck somewhere. B'sura amri b'sura achla. If you go to check meat b'sura liba d'ka, then you need to use meat to see if it could cut meat. In other words, you have to use your finger to see if you could check the animal. You can't use here. You can't use other stuff. No, it doesn't cut. You go do it smoothly. They know They They know how to do it. They go like this. They go very very smoothly. See if it If it If it disturbs or it's very smooth. I tried it out this tonight. Then it wasn't so good schmaltz. Over at Papa. No, I didn't I didn't Shmuel Dikow Abistro says Rav Papa. You need to check it a few ways. Abistro on your finger, bat tzufra on your nail. Bat plus ruchasa. I was I was going to do it over here for the first time. I'm a little nervous. I can't even see it. Well, okay, fine. Anyways, on all three you have to check it on this side, check it on the on the shpitz, and check it on this side. So, that's three. Bat plus ruchasa. All my later Rav Ashi. All my later Rav Sama Breida Rav Misharshe Mishma. Somebody said it in your name. Da Mishma Rav Ashi said in the name of Rava. Shmuel Dikow Abistro bat tzufra bat plus ruchasa. You need to do abdika on the meat, on your finger, on your nail, and on three sides. So, that's three times two is six. But, you also have to go back and forth, so that's 12 dikas. They also that's boze. Abistro Rav Ami. Bat Bat plus ruchasa Rav Ami. So, he said, "No. They said it in my name?" Abistro Rav Ami. I said you should use your finger. I said you should use your nail. But, I didn't say you have to check three sides. One side is enough. The the sharpness. Egad Ami Abistro bat tzufra bat plus ruchasa Ami. Yes, you're right. I said you have to check it on your finger and on your nail and on all three sides. Shmuel Rav Ami. I never said it in the name of Rava. Says somebody else. Not not in the name of Rava. Rav Ami Rav Ashi Rav Ashi Rav Ashi the bilka. So, they brought a knife to Rav Ashi. He said, it out." Oh, my later Rav Rav Rav Bidka. So, Rav Ashi passes it on and says, "You check it. I want to see how you do checking." Rav Bidka, so he checked it, a tufr on his nail, a bisra on his finger, a tlus on all three sides. Rav Ashi said, "Yishar, perfect. The hail of Rav Kahana passed the test." Rav Yemar Amar, a tufr a bisra tzu cha, you need to check your you need to use your nail and your and your finger. A tlus tzu cha, but not on three directions. Rav Zera Amar Shmuel, Levi ben Sakkai Amar Shmuel, "Bosh, shchita tzu cha." I'll remind you this famous case that we had. He takes a knife. He puts it in the fire. He makes it red hot. And then he does shchita. So, what was the Gemara's problem with that? Remember? Burning the esophagus and the trachea with the sides of the knife. Before you finish up the shchita, you're going to make it treif by burning it. What did the Gemara say? No, that's not how it works. The it's taught and the the sharpness of the knife goes in first. And before the side of the knife has any chance to touch the sides of the kavan and veshet, it pops open. Like a It's like a it's waiting to expand. As soon as you cut, it pops open. So, may law, he's saying you don't The sides of the knife never touch the kavan and veshet. It's only the sharpness. So, what's the point of checking the sides of the knife? And with that we finish. Let's just read it inside. Levi ben Sakkai Amar Shmuel, "Shchita tzu cha, shchita tzu cha min dibura." Because the sharpness goes in before the heat. "Bikashlo Amar Rav Ashi, but what about the sides of the knife? They're going to burn?" Amar Rav Ashi, "Shchita meiva." Beis ha shchita meiva. Rav Ashi, it expands, it pops open, doesn't let you touch Beis ha shchita meiva. Rav Ashi, boy side. Have a wonderful day and have a great time at the Melaveh Malkah. We'll see you Have have a safe trip back. This is going to show them I'll see you inside the room shortly. Merit the source of spreading Torah throughout the world. Sponsor a share today. Mdy.sponsor.com [music] or [email protected]