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CHAZAQ's Torah Talks #211 Rabbi Josh Sturm - The Anatomy of Kindness
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It's more than just the recipient whose
life is being saved. I was at a uh a
luncheon where a recipient met her donor
for the first time. It's so emotional
when you see those experiences. I mean,
the hugging and the the raw emotion.
This person literally saved her life.
What was impactful to me was how many
other people were around the table
because you realize that it's not just
her life. Her husband, her kids were
there, her grandkids were there. We gave
this family back, their mother and their
grandmother. This donor saved their
life. Around the table also was the
donor's family, his kids. To see them
understand what their father did, it's
just an an incredible experience.
[Music]
Welcome everyone to Kazak's Torah Talks
Pro program where we have a very special
guest today, Rabbi Josh Sturm. Thanks
for joining us.
>> Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here
everyone.
>> Every every Tuesday night we have an
amazing guest each week and we have a
very special topic today, anatomy of
kindness. Before we get jump into the
topic, if we could hear some of the
great work that the background yourself
and the great work you're involved.
>> Sure. So, I am the director of outreach
for Renewal. Renew is an organization
that has been around now for 19 years.
And in those 19 years, we have been
responsible for 1347
transplants.
>> Wow.
>> It's unbelievable. When I think of back
uh when renewal started, we this idea
was so foreign. Nobody was donating
kidneys. Not nobody but very few people.
And it was something that was just not
really discussed or talked about. And
our founder's name is Mendy Reiner.
Mendy made a push in the community uh
starting in the kiddish community in
Burough Park and then slowly but surely
expanding outwards to all parts of the
uh of the Jewish world and we started in
2006 with two transplants that first
year. The next year we did seven. Fast
forward last year we were involved in
163 transplants.
>> Wow.
>> This year, God willing, we're on pace to
to break that.
>> Changing the world here. Wow.
>> It's amazing. But you know, it's not
just the world. It is the world, but we
actually look at it as each individual
because every transplant represents so
much. It's a story. It's it's more than
just the recipient whose life is being
saved. I was just coming uh just a
little bit earlier today. I was at a uh
uh a lunchon where a recipient met her
donor for the first time. And uh it was
it's so emotional when you see those
experiences. I mean, the hugging and the
the raw emotion this person literally
saved her life. And what was impactful
to me was how many other people were
around the table because you realize
that it's not just her life, her
husband, her kids were there, her
grandkids were there.
We gave this family back, their mother
and their grandmother with Akuru's help,
of course, with everything. This donor
saved their life. But it wasn't just the
donor that the recipient that was
impacted because around the table also
was the donor's family, his kids. Um,
and to see them understand what their
father did, it's just an an incredible
experience.
>> Like like it says in um in Perkava, what
does it say? It says huh. Then it says
each rabbi said they're each their own
thing. But but I heard once it said huh
ha. You put like a pause like a comma.
First they first they practice and and
then they could say it that that's what
you're saying. I think that that that
what you could say
put articles is that you have to live
it.
>> I'm reminded of a story. I won't mention
the name because I don't think they'll
appreciate it. But uh at the time this
uh young lady was I think 15 16 years
old. Her father donated kidney. Her
father is a uh a well-known rv and this
goes back already uh quite a ways. And I
asked her afterwards if she would write
up her experience. What did it mean to
have her father donate a kidney? And she
wrote it up. It's beautiful. She said,
"My father is a rabbi. A rabbi. He
preaches. He tells me like he tells all
his congregants. He's telling me my
whole life. Do this. Don't do that. Act
this way. You got to be nice to this
person." All all the different things
that uh that every parent tells. But you
can imagine what a rabbi is telling his
own kids. And she said, and like a
typical teenager, it went in one ear and
right out the other. She said, "Until he
did this." Once he donated his kidney,
all of a sudden I realized that wait a
second, this man really believes in it.
>> He's not just preaching. He's not just
telling us what to do. He put his money
where his mouth is, so to speak. He
really believes in his cause. She said,
"All of a sudden, everything he had told
me came right back into focus.
>> It went back out of the air.
>> It came right back out. That ear came
right back in." said it went right back
into focus and it changed her her uh
perspective and
>> Wow.
>> We see it all the time.
>> Wow. So, I guess we're we're already
jumping right into it, I guess. Can you
tell us what what goes into um a um a
kidney donation? Maybe. What are some of
the misconceptions that people might
have?
>> There's a lot of moving parts that go
into uh donating a kidney or making the
whole transplant. Let's talk about the
misconceptions first, though. There are
a lot of people out there that think
that kidney donors are doing something
that's crazy. What do I mean by crazy? I
mean, it is crazy. It's crazy in the
sense that they're saving a life. It's
crazy in the sense that this doesn't
exist, at least nowhere close to these
kind of numbers outside of our
communities. Um, so in that regard, we
are crazy. Yes, we're proud to be uh to
be crazy in that regard. But there are
misconceptions out there about what
kidney donation is. And it's important
to uh dispel those to really demystify
some of the myths. So for example,
people think that kidney donors are
going to be out of work for 6 months.
They're not. They're the average donor
is about two to three weeks out of work.
And that doesn't mean they're bedridden
for two to three weeks. Definitely not.
They're actually up and walking in the
hospital that very night after their
transplant. But they are uncomfortable
for a good few weeks. Most of them
describe as if by one to two months they
feel as if nothing happened. Totally as
they did before. That's not true.
Physically they feel totally as they did
before. Emotionally they're on a high. I
mean they save somebody's life. It's an
incredible uh it's it's amazing.
>> And uh so that's one misconception.
There's another misconception out there
that I used to get a lot more when we
first started, but we've done bar hashm
a lot of education within our
communities. Uh so I don't get these as
frequently. But there's a misconception
that kidney donors have to take
medication for the rest of their life.
They don't. The recipient does. Uh
donors don't take any medication at I
mean short of some painkillers when
they're in the hospital, maybe the few
days after that. Um and that's it.
There's no major restrictions on their
life post donation. They do have to be
mindful of their overall health for sure
as we all should be and they have to be
a little a little bit extra careful, but
they don't really have any major
significant restrictions post their uh
their donation.
There are people think that to be a
kidney donor, you've got to be in
tip-top shape. You got to be a marathon
runner or a cyclist. Now, to be sure, we
do
>> to be sure we do have marathon runners
and cyclists that have donated. No
Olympians yet, but we do have marathon
runners, cyclists, and and athletes that
have donated. We also have regular
people, and that's actually most of our
people are just regular people. Um they
they're living regular generally healthy
lives. You can't have certain
preconditions like diabetes. Um if you
have high blood pressure, it depends on
the details of the high blood pressure.
Uh somebody's significantly overweight.
So there there are some restrictions to
doing it. But a person, many of our
donors are on certain medications. Um
there you just have to be in generally
good health to be able to donate a
kidney. So that's some of the
misconceptions that are out there. But I
want to walk you through what the
process is like for somebody who needs a
kidney. They come into our office and
one of the the most important things we
do for the recipients and I think it's
something that gets overlooked is we
give them hope and optimism because
these people come in, their world has
been shattered. They received a
diagnosis of kidney failure. Some of
them saw it coming. For some, it's a
genetic thing that's been building up
for years. For others, they weren't
feeling well. One day, they went for a
blood test and doctor told them, "Your
kidneys are are in bad shape." And it's
devastating. And so they come into the
office and they have very much tunnel
vision. They only see what's in front of
them in terms of their pain. As anybody
who's going through that a painful
situation, our job is to help them to
see that there's a larger world out
there. To help them to see that there is
a path forward, a path ahead. was just
on a call with a with an individual and
uh he ended off the conversation was uh
okay we're on the uh we're on the road
we're on the path forward uh because we
we talked about some different options
and different outreach opportunities to
find that kidney donor and I said I want
to correct you not just on the road on
the path forward what you are is you're
on a road that we know where the
destination is going and we can see that
destination
>> it's not there we're not there yet but
God willing, we're going to get there
because
this is what we're able to do because
there are so many people that are
willing to give literally a body part to
save somebody else.
>> It's incredible.
>> Can you can you touch a little bit upon
the essentialness of a of a kidney? Some
people that don't know anything about
kidney, they don't know if they have
one, two, three kidneys, they don't
know.
>> So, you're born with two kidneys. Kosh
Barl created us with two kidneys. Your
kidneys are actually in your back, not
your front. Um, and what interesting uh
tidbit when a kidney kidney recipient
receives a new kidney, they actually
don't take out the old kidneys. So,
they're actually walking around with
three kidneys.
>> I said three. I was right.
>> So, yeah, there are. And the kidney is
actually put in the front because it's
just easier for them to do the surgery
in that way. Uh, but your native
kidneys, the ones that Karu created
within you, they're in your back
>> and you have two of them. And they're
they do a lot of things, but their main
function is to act as a filtration
system. So, picture. Okay, I'm dating
myself a little bit by saying this, but
uh we used to have a a Britta filter.
Remember what those Brida filters are in
the water? No, I'm really dating myself
over here, but uh growing up, we used to
have a a water pitcher and in the
picture, people who are watching this,
if you're from a certain age, you're
going to be like, "Oh, yeah, of course."
In other words, you're going to look at
me like you don't know what I'm talking
about. We had such a contraption um
where it's a pitcher and in the pitcher
the water would go in and there would be
a filter. The company was called Brida.
I think they're still around. And there
would be a filter and the water would
pass through the filter and it would
filter out any impurities that were in
the water. So you have I don't whatever
is in the water and it depends on where
you live but a lot of different things
floating around and it would filter all
these kind of things out. Um that's what
your kidneys do to a certain degree.
your body in your in the natural process
of living whether it's through all the
different things that your body does
your body produces byproducts it
produces waste and it produces toxins
bad things just in the course of doing
business so to speak of helping us to
stay alive your body produces things
that that need to get out of the body
they need to be expelled now they come
out I hate to be gross but they come out
when we go to the bathroom um but what
gets them into our urine to be able to
go to the bathroom and to be able to
expel it from the body. That's the
kidneys. They are this super filtration
system. So the blood passes through the
kidneys and as the blood passes through
it catches all the things that shouldn't
be in your body and it then takes those
things and it puts them towards the uh
urinary tract and eventually they get
expelled out of the out out of our
bodies. It gives such meaning to the
brah of a say the brahar. How many times
a day do we say that braha? So many
times
one moment
>> right if if one thing that was supposed
to be opened is closed or supposed to be
closed is opened the whole thing is out
of whack. It doesn't work.
>> Yeah.
>> I remember I had a uh a story where one
of the things that we do is we accompany
the donor and the recipient on the day
of the transplant. Um they're not alone.
We're there with them throughout the
day. We're there with them every step of
the way as they're going through the
process. So, we're there in the morning
at 5:30 in the morning to greet the
donor at the hospital with a a smiley
face and uh just to to be friendly and
we we usher them through the process. We
take them to the pre-op room and they go
through the whole process um till
they're on the operating table. We're
not there. Don't worry, these hands go
nowhere close to the operating table.
So, one of my jobs or the rest of us is
that we spend time with the family in
the waiting room. Uh because it's hard.
The surgery for the donor is about 2 to
three hours long. And in many ways, I
don't know if I should say it this way,
but in many ways, the donor has the
easier job. It's the spouse or the
family member that's in the waiting room
that's sitting on the edge of their
seat. What's going on? Is it is this
normal that it should take this long?
And we're there to to assure them. Yeah,
don't worry. This is fine and we can
even give them updates also. We're in
contact with the doctor and things are
moving along nicely and just to put
their mind at ease. So anyway, so I was
sitting with the with the husband of a
donor and his wife had just come out.
The doctor came out said, "V Hashem,
everything went well. Kidney is working
great in the they're putting it into the
recipient now. It looks good and he's
going to be in the uh in the recovery
room, which is the room that they go to
after the surgery. They spend a good
couple hours, few hours there uh while
they the anesthesia wears off till they
can go to their own donors get a private
room. So till they can go to their own
private room, they're a few hours there.
While they're in the recovery room,
every hospital is different, but the
family is allowed to go in for a very
brief amount of time in the beginning
because the donor is still groggy.
They're the anesthesia is wearing off
and um they need to sleep, they need to
rest, but the family wants to see that
they're okay. So, I went with the
husband of the donor to the into the
recovery room. I took him I said to him
ahead of time, I said, "Listen, we're
going to only stay for about 30 seconds.
I want you to see that uh that she's
okay. Um she cuz I had spoken to her
beforehand. What was her biggest worry
about donating her kidney? My husband my
husband's going to be a nervous wreck
while I'm in surgery." That was her
worry.
And uh a wonderful wife. And so I said,
I more importantly than you seeing that
she's okay, I need her to see that
you're okay.
>> Bring your spot with you.
>> Right. So, but we're only going to stay
for 30 seconds. Let her rest. You'll
just you'll see each other. You'll say
hi. And then we'll go out and we'll come
back probably in an hour as you know
she's getting more and more acclimated.
And so we went in and I took him over to
her bed and she she opens her eyes, she
sees him, she smiles, he smiles. How you
doing? Tired? Whatever. Okay, good.
Everything is good. And uh he turns to
me. He says, "Okay, we time to go." I
said, "Yeah, let's let's go." I said,
"But before we go, I want to show you
something." She says, "Where are we
going?" I said, "Just trust me for a
second. Walk with me." I took him a few
dead a few beds down. This was already a
little bit after the uh um the surgery
was over. So, I took him a few beds down
and I said, and I apologize to everybody
watching this for being a little bit
gross, but I think it's worthwhile. I
said, "I want you to do me a favor. look
over on the side of that bed and tell me
what you see. He looks over. He says, "I
see a bag filled with urine." Um, I
said, "That's right. That is what you
see." He said, "You know what that bag
is? That's your wife's kidney working. I
want you to understand that bag that's
filled with urine right now, this this
lady who got the kidney, she couldn't
produce that in a week. She couldn't get
that much urine out. Um, her kidneys
were so bad. Not every patient has that
situation, but and here we're we're a
couple hours after surgery and that bag
is full. I said that to me is one of the
most beautiful sites in the world.
People look at it as disgusting. It's
beautiful because it means the kidney is
working. I said we say Ashrays,
you understand what it means? That bag
is what Ashatsar is all about. She
couldn't do that on her own with with
the kidneys that uh were failing. Now
she can do that.
>> Wow. Wow.
>> Changes your perspective on on
everything.
>> What a wow. What a perspective. Can you
you touched upon this a little bit. Can
you touch a little bit more the the
impact um from uh of a kidney donation
and from a from I guess from every
single way to look at it.
>> I'll share with you another story and
I'm not going to say her name also
because she is private about this story
although those who know know. Um but
she's a a rebbitson a prominent
Rebbitson. She's a kidney donor and this
rebbitson wanted to donate her kidney.
She came to renewal and she told us I
want to donate. Fine, wonderful. She
went for the testing and part of the
testing that they do for a donor. It's a
full day evaluation in the hospital. You
ever want to get a good physical you
just tell them you want to be a kidney
donor because they are testing you from
head to toe. Not just that your kidney
is working properly. They want to make
sure everything is healthy. The last
thing in the world that anybody wants to
do is put a kidney donor at an
unnecessary risk by donating their
kidney. So they're checking her out.
Every part, every I call it alphabet
soup. EKG, MRI, CT, anything with the
the the alphabet, they're giving that
test. Well, one of the tests came back
and they came in to this lady and they
said, um, I don't know how to tell you
this, but this is what the doctor said,
but uh, it's good thing you came in to
to want to donate your kidney because we
found a tumor in your abdomen.
You're not donating your kidney, they
said. But this would have killed you.
They said it was resting on a certain um
um certain artery. I believe it was that
they said you wouldn't have noticed it
till one day just you just would have
been gone. It would have choked off that
artery and before you realized what had
happened. He said because you came in to
to get tested said you're not donating
but because you came in to get tested we
found this and they were able to do a
procedure. It turned out it was it was
thankfully it was not cancerous. Um it
was benign and uh and everything was
wonderful. The story doesn't end there
because this rabbitson um after she went
through her own surgery so she wanted to
get back into shape she hired herself a
personal trainer personal trainer young
f lady and the trainer was asking her so
what's what's the story? What happened?
You went for surgery. I mean she was
sharing it. She wasn't prying or
anything, but she would the repson was
sharing her story and she said, "That's
amazing. You know, I think I'm inspired.
I want to get tested and become a kidney
donor myself." And she did. Her name is
Estie. I'm not going to give out all the
information because I don't know if she
wants it either, but Estie was inspired.
She donated her kidney. Estie donating
her kidney set off a a chain of events
that we are still seeing um the
ramifications of till this very day and
this is already I don't know probably
eight years ago already. Um Estie met
her recipient for the first time at an
event that we did in Tene. That event we
didn't we did in Tene. Um at that point
in Tene we had
maybe six donors somewhere around there
in the the whole community of Tene.
Estie met her recipient that set off a
chain reaction. We had donors upon
donors that came forward to this point.
We are the Tene community right now has
over 50 kidney donors.
>> Wow.
>> This Rebbitson needed a personal
trainer. This personal trainer was
inspired.
It set off a chain event. But the story
doesn't end there because we get a knock
on our door, so to speak, two years
later, and it's the Rebbitson. She says,
"I just came from the doctor. The doctor
said, I can still donate my kidney. I
want to do it."
>> And thank God she did. She's doing
wonderfully well. And she in her own way
has continued to inspire. I only Aku can
count the dozens upon dozens of
transplants that have come about from
this one story. And we have a thousand
of those stories. We're actually coming
out with a book very shortly of hashkah
stories around kidney donation because
we have seen the yashm in so many
different ways. It is just unbelievable.
>> Unbelievable. Wow. Can can can you touch
upon this? There's actually a WhatsApp
status that myself and thousands of
people they're they're part of. It's
called MKY Mika Israel and and it shows
about the glory and how proud um that
who who was like the Jewish people. Can
you can you touch upon that?
>> Yeah, we've we've been on the uh um on
the status and
miko there I don't think there are three
more beautiful words in our religion
because this sums up who we are. I'll
share with you a statistic and an idea.
Um the average person in America, I've
shared this before so some of your
viewers may have heard this already but
it's worth repeating. The average person
in America who needs a kidney, there are
90,000 people in the United States today
that need a kidney. The average person
comes to the hospital, if they're lucky,
extremely lucky, they have one person
that's willing to potentially do it.
Now, they don't know if that person's a
match. They don't know if that person is
is uh is healthy enough to do it.
There's a lot of different variables why
that person probably won't end up being
a kidney donor, but they have one person
who's willing to at least explore it.
And Claire,
Claire, it's unbelievable. We did an
event um a few weeks ago in Baltimore.
Shout out to the Baltimore community.
Baltimore today has over 40 kidney
donors. We did an event in Baltimore for
a young man who needs a kidney. And we
came for one day in we set up in
different shooles. The community helped
us out tremendously, our local donors
and in Baltimore and Silver Spring
combined. We were in about 10 different
locations over the course of one Sunday
during right before Tashabah. What
better uh idea before t-shave than a of
we walked away with 559
swabs of people that were interested in
becoming a kidney donor. Most of them
don't even know who this person is.
I I can't you can't even describe what
means over here. I forget it sometimes.
I'll be honest. We at Renewal sometimes
we get uh we're so used to it that we
forget this. You know who reminds us of
it? We go to I speak to doctors all
across the country in different
hospitals and they tell me they said
they say these are their words. You guys
don't understand what you have and it's
true. I I forget it but this doesn't
exist outside of the of our community
that people are lined up to get tested
for a total stranger or even somebody
they know. It doesn't exist. And we had
in one day 559.
We did in last week in uh in Satmer um
350 swabs that we got in one day. It's
it's nuts.
>> I said before that we're crazy. We are
crazy. We are not a normal people and
I'm proud to be a part of it. This is
Mik Israel. This is who we are.
>> Wow. Can you share some of those the
statistics of that?
>> Yeah. So, the statistics are wild. Um
there are,
as I said, there are 90,000 people in
the United States that need a kidney.
There aren't that many transplants that
happen across the country.
Unfortunately, in a given year, there
only about 21 and a half thousand
transplants. And that's including
deceased donors, I mean kidneys. That's
including deceased donors, live donors.
We deal only with with living uh donors.
And that means that most of these people
are not going to get a transplant.
That's the sad reality. About nine or 10
people die um every day waiting for a
kidney. Barak Hashem and Kalisrael
we have much different kinds of numbers.
So just to give you a perspective of
what Kai Israel has accomplished renewal
over the and renewal is KL Israel over
the last 12 13 years has been
responsible for about 18% I love that
number 18% of all altruistic kidney
transplants across the United States.
Now altruistic you should understand the
terminology the hospitals call
altruistic where a donor and recipient
don't know each other which is most of
the transplants that we do. they don't
know each other. They um in many cases
they live in different states or
whatever it is, but they don't know each
other. Now, it happens to be I disagree
with the definition because in our book,
anybody who donates to kidney is
altruistic, but using their their
definition of where they're total
strangers, 18%. But Renewal is a proud
Jewish organization. Jewish population
in the United States is roughly 2%.
which means that 2% of the population is
responsible for 18% of all altruistic
kidney transplants across the country.
I'll take it one step further because
whereas renewal or while renewal
services all walks of Jewish life, our
kidneys are coming not exclusively but
almost exclusively from the religious
population. Uh and the religious
population of the United States,
religious Jewish, I mean of course the
Orthodox Jewish population, United
States is roughly 0.2%.
02% is responsible for 18%. You talk
about mikrol, it is it is absolutely
wild. And by the way, in New York, which
is where most of us stuff that we do is
happening in New York, we're responsible
for about 60%. That means more than one
out of every two altruistic transplants
is coming in the state of New York is
coming through renewal, which means it's
coming from a member of the Jewish
community.
>> Wow. blown away ra um such in inspiring
remarkable um remarks today. Can can you
leave us off with uh one final message
for that what you would say to all the
listeners? What would you want to say?
>> What I want to say is that we don't push
kidney donation on anybody. We believe
it has to be something that is genuinely
the right thing for you, the right thing
for your family. And we go through a
process. Anybody who gets tested, most
people get tested, by the way, don't end
up donating their kidney. And that's
fine because it's a process. It's a
journey. What we do believe is that
everybody should at least give thought
to the idea of whether it's for them or
not. If they come to the conclusion
that's not the right thing for them,
either right now or ever, that's fine.
It's not for everybody, but everybody
should at least give thought to is this
something that I'm capable of? Is this
something that that I should be doing or
I can be doing? And they have to do it
from a place, not a place of feeling a
sense of that I have to. Kenny donors
come from a sense of I want to. And
that's what we want. We want them to be
in a place where they desire to do
something like this. Not that they feel
guilty because that's a recipe for
disaster. They should not donate because
they feel guilty. If they want to donate
because they want to do this and they
can understand and appreciate what the
impact is, then I encourage you to come
and get tested. Getting tested, by the
way, is just sending us an email
[email protected].
Um, and we mail you a swab kit. We we go
through the the questions with you of
just to see if this is right the right
thing for you. And we explore how that
process goes. But one thing I want
everybody to walk away with is that
Kalius, as I said before, is not normal.
And we're proud to be not normal. The
idea that Kalisil is willing to do
something of this magnitude is something
that should inspire us. Whether we are
inspired to get tested to be a kidney
donor, whether we're inspired to do in a
million other ways and there's so many
ways that you can do out there in this
world, we have a responsibility because
we are a family. We are a large family,
sometimes dysfunctional. It's true. And
that's by the way one of the coolest
things at Renewal is that we've seen all
the barriers that exist in Cla Israel.
It falls by the wayside. We have
tashkanazim
men ladies
modern orthodox bkarian. It doesn't
matter where you're from. Yeshivish. It
doesn't matter the the boundaries that
we put up for ourselves in the rest of
our lives. They all fall completely when
it comes to this amazing life
>> everyone is united together.
>> We are proud that renewal represents
every part of kal Israel. Um we are our
donors are coming from all different
communities and one of the coolest
things is when they get together because
we do get togethers from time to time
with our donors and you see them
smoozing you see them these people would
never cross paths in other parts of
life. They share a common bond that they
are emulating
the idea of what what is taught to us.
Araminu is the the father of emulating
Araminu by being able to do something
like this. So the takeaway message is go
and do whatever the is but go and do it
because that is what makes us into who
we are and that is the recipe for how we
will together with Torah together with
avoda that is how we will fight our
enemies how Israel will ultimately be
victorious at the end of the day we will
stand strong because we are one
>> thank you Stur we thank all the
listeners for tuning in joining us
everyone's cards to join us every
Tuesday night 8:30 p.m. on
kazak.org/live.
Of course, you can watch um this episode
or any of the previous over 200
different episodes on any time, on
YouTube, on all the different podcast
players. And we thank you Ster.
>> Thank you so much. We appreciate it.
Thanks so much.
[Music]