CHAZAQ's Torah Talks #221 Rabbi Amitai Ben David - All About Kosher Meat

The rules of of are very very strict. For example, the knife has to be kept very well. It has to be clean, sharp and smooth. And before [music] each shita, we have to check the knife that there will be no nicks on the blade. We pass the nail of the finger back and forth to see that it's smooth. Nothing bothers the nail, the run on the blade. Today's episode is sponsored by Borism Tax Planning and Advisory. Schedule your free tax strategy session online and get started now. Call us at 212-430-6881 to learn more. and welcome to Torah Talks special guest Tuesday nights. We have with us all the way from your from David. >> Thank you very much for joining us. Welcome. And we're going to be speaking about all about kosher meat. An exciting topic. And before we do that, we got a little background about the rabbi. >> My name is Amitabin Davidid. Um I was born in New Haven, Connecticut. uh when my parents were there learning in the Yale University. >> Interesting. >> They both were born in Bora Park. My mother is Ashkinazi. My father, his name before he was born used to be Davidido and David was Davididovo >> because my grandfather who first came to America at 1937 uh he came from and my grandfather Shalom bin Davidid he was born as Davidov and his parents came from Bkar. His parents father was Mulaovidov and they were his mother her name was Batva Bat Rabish Lam M. She was the daughter famous the founder of the neighborhood and he built the neighborhood >> and uh he printed the the books and the famous that was the first sidur that was printed with the Hashem with that means uh a very special uh way to write the name of Hashem. in the and to think about Hashem during the praying. So uh and that was the first one and see who was one of the great uh of Israel and also Ben they both wrote in their books please buy the ofish m because it's special and my grandfather was the grandson of mus the founder of the neighborhood and uh in the neighborhood. They had the school of the children. He was born 1904. And he went to the school. The melamed the teacher his name was Schlommo Abu. He also there I think it was one of the first uh schools in that was for the children and all the children uh came there especially the Syrian community that was living in they all learned there. That was in the years he was 6 years old uh when he started there and the first day he came. So the rebi told him what's your last name. What is David? He said in Russian it's the son of David. So he said so inesh you're not supposed to say you have to say like the name of the mashiach. >> Okay. >> So they had the they had such a pure pure believing by to the told him. So immediately he came home. Abba but said we have to change our last name. So the first thing his father did at the morning uh was to go to the Turkish officer and change his name in the passport immediately that that coming day he did he changed now from now on we are that's the name we have a a big family a lot of offsprings all all most of them in all of them came to America. My grandfather says it was a miracle. A miracle that four brothers and two sisters they all came to America and after years they came back to Israel. All of them shabbat and eating for all the years they were all all the time they were together. the the when they were working and even on vacations they were they were makid not to work on they closed their they had in 47 street they were they deal with jewels and pearls and they all came back to Israel and all the grandsons today they live in all over >> maybe one or two stayed in America. So, and they had the mima as we said. So, my grandfather, he sent my father to the sh and schools of America. So, he grew up uh in all the Ashkenazi tradition. We prayed Ashkenazi Nusak and Ashkenazi accent and everything. That's what all we knew. And also when we came back, he made aliyah. So we continued to be Ashkanazi. But my grandfather, he came back also. And as he became older, he looked more and more to go back to the source of the family, the source of the neighborhood. He went back to the neighborhood to see all the buildings and when he grew where he grew up and his parents and that they were were supporting it and everything and the synagogues and he said he told us look you're also becoming more from more strictly religious in Israel. So also you have to go back to the source you have to become what is bkari and we at the beginning we refused we didn't want we said >> let me be as I am my friends I want to find the kal like that like that we didn't want to change so what did he do my grandfathered he went And immediately said, "Call all your grandchildren. I want them to come to my office and I want to speak to them." >> And we all came on Friday to his office. And he said, "You know, I know your greatgrandfather Mulaovidov and his brother Mul. I know I knew both of them." And they were the big support supporters of And we learned also we learned in the shul and the of your family of David that was my his father was the father of his father. So you had and especially you have so strong and and good roots. What are you running away from that? What are you looking for? You have your own thing. And he took he spoke to us and it took time but at the end we ended all of us all the brothers all and my my father and all the whole entire family came back to be he told us don't don't be in one night start one thing another thing learn I'll help you ask me all the questions you have also Later I had connection with Bash also he said I know your your grandparents I know your family come back yes it's good it's good what you're doing >> and we came back to the community today is that it's not like uh we don't have the we don't have something special fork theim are part of community. Okay. But we later I I went I lived in a neighborhood where we had a bkari and uh sh so I went there. I >> my grandmother allow shalom and my uncles and aunts they live in >> there's also infil. >> Yes. That's where they go. >> Yeah. So I used to go there also in the morning. Okay. we became closer and closer to the source. Okay. >> Now to finish the background. [laughter] Okay. How what brought me to the field? >> Okay. I was I liked very much to draw drawings we can say artists. Okay. So I learned in yeshiva and then I learned in the k we started a new thing of learning kin is the special that teaches us all the details of the of the of the meat and the third chapter of the we have there all the animal and the bird explain all the organs. How does the what is the in order to be kash so we're not allowed to have the animal must be healthy no holes or any diseases and uh important organs of the >> of the animal okay or the bird also. So in in order to know that the brings all the details and also the they all bring the details of the organs of the animal, the bones, the heart, the lung, the spleen, the everything and we have to understand it. So how can we understand? We don't know. It's not like in the old days that you do you did in the backyard and every child saw the gizzard of the chicken. It's not like that today. So we said we have to look to find a book that explains that. How did people learn that before? But the interesting thing was that I realized that there's no book that explains the details and the uh questions and answers that appear in the it was only like a book that showed you this is the heart. Okay. But the if the asks something it says the one a hole in the heart is but if it doesn't reach the cavity it's not where's the cavity at >> they don't didn't they just showed us the heart but they didn't explain the details of the so I said I'll go to the place where they do the and I'll ask them bring me your heart bring me along and I'll draw it and I'll put the words of the gum in the picture and point I'll draw arrows that show exactly what >> I did such a such a pamphlet like something small and when the they reached that subject I gave out to all the friends here look I have here I explain the the the gum and then they started to see oh it looks like this oh I imagine that the heart looks like the pictures like that it doesn't look like in the pictures >> I don't know and they start they said oh okay so tomorrow next week we have to learn a new uh subject so go prepare it go to the butcher go to the places and draw us another uh booklet. Okay. And that from that came out at the end I had a lot of booklets. I gathered gathered them together and came out a book 600 pages of all the anatomy of the animal and the bird like how they taught us how they and it's called I got letters from the especially from and uh they said it's good to learn with it and suddenly it became a bestseller one edition two editions I don't want even to say where we we're reaching we holding now okay [snorts] >> okay okay so uh I I did it now after the book was printed People started to call me, oh look, if already, you know, can you come to our and bring a chicken and show us on the chicken? Oh, okay. I'll try. Let's see. >> And I I started that. And suddenly I had lectures, more lectures, and people call me and ask and that. And suddenly without not on purpose I f I found myself in the field of of [laughter] that again more people took me more called me more that I went to see plants I went abroad to see to give shim and everything I found myself in there and I can't leave it anymore because I feel the responsibility and the rabbanim told me look you have to open a school like a k that you teach and train and send all those students to be all over in also in Israel also out of Israel um >> and that's what I have today I have like a school in that uh we teach and train the I hope the new generation of the uh of the meat uh with the help of Hashem Rabbi David I must say very very interesting how all this inspired and came inspired came about came about >> and uh just for the record we actually had Rabbi Mita seven years ago when it was for Domi so we had a whole event over here as and we're looking forward to doing another one. But the question is Rabbi is is being a is being a slaughter for everyone. Is it for anyone? >> It's a very very good question. I'll bring an example. There's like a boy that he sits in yeshiva but he doesn't develop there. He doesn't have the >> happiness and the skills. So his father said, "Oh, look, he won't be. Let's send him to be." Okay. He brings me the boy, teach him. I say, "Look, you're right that if a child does things hands-on, it's more interesting will more uh tie him to the learning. That's right. But in order to be a real good shet, it's not enough. A shet he goes afterwards to work in a plant or a butcher or any other places. He has to be very very responsible, very >> and also strong because in that field you have people that they think only one thing. how less I can invest in the meat and get more money from the investment. Okay, that means they want to feed the the chicken less but get the chicken grow fast >> and [clears throat] everything and less uh people working on it, less mashim. They want it to be more cheap and so they be able to sell more and okay. So now if somebody is going the rules of we'll speak about that later the rules of are very very strict. It's uh you have even uh things that are look very strange. Why do you have to see? For example, I'll show you the knife. >> Show and tell. >> Yes. The knife that we slaughter. Yeah. Is slaughtering the knife. We can't take just uh a knife from the kitchen, a fleshic knife, and cut the neck of the animal. We have very very very strict uh details. It says in the Torah, one second. It says we have that means that it's not written in the Torah but the Torah says that means that there's a place or it happened that Mosher Raenu got all the details when he was on the sky. on top of Mount Si. He went 40 days and Hashem gave him all the details. That's called and we have very very strict details. For example, the knife the knife has to be kept very well. We keep it in a case and it has to be clean and sharp and smooth. And before each or bunch of you see that we have to check the knife that there'll be no nicks on the blade. We pass the nail of the finger back and forth. from two sides of the knife. You see that it's >> smooth? >> Smooth that nothing bothers the nail to run on the blade. Okay. This knife fits uh birds. It's good for chicken, turkey, uh pigeons, whales. We have a lot of birds that we were allowed to eat. But we just have to know that it belongs to that uh specy. Okay. Now here we keep it in the purse that this is a knife that is special for animals but not all the animals. It's not for cattle for uh cows or uh ox. It doesn't fit because it's too short. We need the knife has to be the length of the knife has to be the how wide is the neck of the animal. So this also we have to check the same way it's longer and we pass and we seem it's okay. This is right after that we did. It's okay. People want to eat from the so we must check before we give the meat to anybody or before they sell it. this knife also um we have to be sure that it's kept well and like like I showed also we have to take care that when we cut we have to cut the neck in a certain place cut the esophagus and the windpipe esophagus is the food pipe and the windpipe is the trachea We cut both of them by the animal also by the bird. We have to cut both of them. But there if I didn't finish both of them only I cut one of them. It's okay. Okay. That's the difference between a bird and animal. So we have to we're not allowed to press the knife down. only bring it back and forth. That's the way. If you press it even one second, it's a problem. Problem means it's not kosher. Yes. Okay. Also, we're not allowed to delay. After cut, don't stop. If I delay, I stop. If it's too long, the stop is too long. So, it's also non kosher. Somebody asked me Uh time ago, why are you so strict? What? What do you care if I I delay one second and I continue? >> I told him it's like you send an email. Okay. Why do I have to put the dot >> before I write comb? Okay. What are you caring about that dot? It's a drop of ink. What are you carrying? What? What? Yes. Each dot, each drop of ink, each thing is necessary because that's what Hashem want. Hashem said and that's the way that people don't know that. He says that's the way that the animal doesn't suffer because it's so smooth, so sharp. Even though you see the animal moving and jumping afterwards, that's only reflections because the minute you cut those two pipes, no oxygen comes to the brain because the lungs stop to give the oxygen to the uh to the heart and the ba the animal doesn't feel any any suffer any pain. The bay doesn't feel the movements that the does with the legs is just the way how he takes out the the soul of the but it doesn't suffer >> and that's the reason that we're so straight. Okay. Now we have a butcher that he wants to sell a lot of meat and he'll have a shet that will tell him look this animal is not kosher. Why? Because they had a nick >> in the knife. >> In the knife. What did that is that a nick? No, you're too sensitive. It's nothing that nick. make it make the BMA kosher. If not, I won't take you to the next that we're doing in Uruguay. You won't get your salary. If you're not you won't you won't say that it's um I'll fire you. Okay. No, that boy that is learning, we have to prepare him to th those things. He has to be very very and know exactly that what he's doing and he has to know all the some things you can say look it's a >> emergency so there's a that maybe maybe it's okay after it's done it's called inad okay after it's done maybe or maybe it was mixed among kosher other kosher maybe you know you have to know a lot of details, a lot of things and judge by yourself. Sometimes the shet is alone alone in the plant and he has to fight all those uh issues. Okay. >> So therefore the answer is not everyone can be but I think that's my opinion. Anybody who comes to learn I tell them come learn for two reason reasons. one it's Hashem gave us a whole it's avah and in the whole system of we have a lot of things it's good to learn it it's good to know it so don't push out people that want to come and learn it's good it's good for them. It will help their knowledge always. Maybe he'll be a rabbi, he'll be something else, but it's good that he knows that. Sometimes you can have questions of the field. Sometimes they come to the rabbi and he'll say, "Oh, I saw I know it." >> Yep. >> Wow. Very, very interesting. Very, very true as well. Rabbi, you ready for the million-dollar question? >> Yes. A million dollar question is is a question I I I get a lot is why is it that kosher meat is so expensive? >> Okay. [clears throat] Okay. I know I know that we'll have [laughter] that question. >> So let's divide the answer into two parts. >> Sure. >> Part number one is kosher against non-cooser. Okay. Because there are some people also they ask he goes to the football game and all his friends go buy hot dog. Okay. Why can't I buy it? Okay. And also if I I want to buy kosher but he buys in $2, I have to pay $8. Why? >> Why? What am I paying for? Okay. So first of all after you saw the knife >> and you saw and you heard all those laws to understand immediately why do you have to pay more because you need more people bigger staff everything slowly and also you have to know after you do the we still have to do sultening in order to take out the blood you have to do in order to take out the forbidden fats you have to take out the ga the sciatic nerve you have to do a lot of things that the non-cooser doesn't have them. So all in the plant any person uh that you have to add it means more money. Any motion that you have to do any time that you have to spend it means money. Everything is money money. Who pays the money? Not the manager, the client. That's the way the world works. Anything you want, you have to pay for. Okay? But you have to put in mind that you want an important thing, very important for you, for us. Okay? That's the answer for kosher and not kosher. It's simple, >> right? >> But now we have I don't want to say mention names or classes or groups. Okay. Generally you see that you have levels in and it's for sure levels in prices. Okay. Why the some people go and they want me also to do that to buy the highest price very expensive meat. Why? Because it's super super glad or uh things like that. Why? I was going to ask you also why is it that there's certain uh people that they want the highest standards what also why some people want a certain not the other one or things like that okay so we have to know I already mentioned that but for example we have like three big differences between the regular kosher and the uh strict kosher it's in in in all of them. First thing is the speed. Okay, the speed. If in the strict culture I I know, I know Israel, I don't know abroad, [clears throat] America, the the is different because they have workers that hold the chicken >> and in in Israel um the shet has to hold it by himself. Okay. But a regular sh that does good, he she he uh about 10 or 12 chicken in a minute. Okay. >> A minute. >> A minute. Yes. But uh let's say in the low level cas they can give him to do 20 30 even more. And even if he doesn't want to work so fast, he must work because the line the line of the factory is moving. They don't allow you. The way it goes, you have like hangers. They don't allow you to have a empty hanger. You must put a chicken in any every hanger. Okay? So you must work fast. Now let's say I a is working fast and suddenly he hears bang. Oh the knife hit the metal stick next to the where he's standing. Hitting metal stick means a nick. Okay. According to you must stop and check the knife and if it's a nick all the chicken that you did since the hit that hit. So they're you're not allowed to eat them and you have to stop. And the boss is sitting in the office and he has a camera >> and he's looking this every few minutes he stops. He checks the knife. What is it doing? And he he says it's okay. So it's very very very different. If I have a that is strictly so they make the line go slowly. The line is slowly I have time. I can check. I can see what I'm doing. All those things. That's the one thing that is a different difference between the regular and the strict. Okay. Another thing is staff staff. If I have one mash in the whole room of the packaging and that mash is standing there and doesn't move from there and he says look I have to go out send me another person. Okay. So I need two people. Okay, each room I need a person. But other places they can say, "Look, I have cameras. I'll sit in the office. I look in the cameras, I see I it's enough only one masg." And one will say, "Look, I know that there's no chicken in the plant. All the we sold already. So what will happen here? They'll pack pack. They'll pack with the different packing. Well, nothing can happen. Everybody can go home. I have cameras and I gave them the stickers, all the workers, and they'll put on all the meat that is here belongs to me. It's kosher. Yes. But when you go out, you you don't know that the manager, he can bring up 20 boxes of the non-cooser meat that you think you sold it. He'll bring it back in and put in on the stickers of kosher and you're not around to see that. And the camera, you won't look for like the whole night that you weren't here. If you do, you do. He'll he'll erase it. He he sits on the computer. He can erase it from the from the camera or he has ways to to do [clears throat] it. Okay. So, the strict culture has a big staff and they know we are here. Nothing will do. You're not allowed to do nothing when we're not around. If we want to leave, we take all the stuff with us or we leave it in the freezer with a lock that only me only the mash has the [snorts] key. Okay. So you have to do strictly things. Also the third difference between strict and non strict is the quality of the people. Okay. Um, a non-strict place can take new students. Come work here. We'll give you a salary. We'll train you. Okay, it's a nice thing. But >> but will you go to a dentist that uh has like a quick course and uh they allow him to to the make >> people wouldn't take a chance. >> Yes. Okay. >> Same thing here. >> Okay. Same thing here. The people that work in the strict they are um more and they know they know other things also and can more rely on them. >> Okay. Amazing. It's 100% true. You know I actually had a situation where people told me that go to the kosher supermarkets to buy kosher meat. >> Yes. >> They asked him like why what are you doing over here? He's like are you serious? Do you know the difference between the quality? Do you know the difference between the the the the the cleanliness and the or this and that? So rabbi very informative very eye opening uh we have a final message for okay what I think we all have to be aware okay I don't say go now and buy strict okay but we have to be aware pay attention that No, one of the the book he says a person always before he eats one of the reasons that we have to say and everything we eat the blessing why is that think before you eat >> look at the food before you eat okay a lot of times you discover things you suddenly look at the package oh there's no kash sign here. >> Mhm. >> Or, oh, it's dairy. Oh, it's uh nonJewish at all. Things like that. So, always always look at the package, look at the food, look what do you think, what are you eating and that can help a lot like to save ourselves not to eat non-cooser things and also that way we'll think more about the thing. Oh, it says here that it's it's kosher, but maybe I can find a better thing. Something that okay, but always think before you buy when you go to the store also look at the things. A lot of times you have the package is the same color. It's the same. It looks the same. The non kosher and the kosher. Always always before you buy because then they'll say, "Oh no, we don't return. We can't return frozen things." Okay. Okay. So before you buy, always read what if there's a read from what it's done. If it's dairy, if it's a if it's okay. And then hashem will help us more to keep and to >> follow the right path. Beautiful very very inspiring very eye opening very very true and we should all take a lesson from this is to higher our standards is whatever a person is doing [music] be more aware like the rabbi is saying make the properly we want to uh thank the rabbi for all that you do. Thank you. [music] >> And you did there. We want to thank everyone for joining us. Kazak Torah talks 8:30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, Tuesday nights. It's been amazing. Once again, I want to thank Rabbi. He's been filling up filling in for me for the last few Torah talks behind the camera [music] and all those involved with so much amazing great things are happening. We want to do a lot more with Hashem's [music] with your help. Everyone should get involved one way or another. Reach out to us at info kazak.org. Infochazaq.org. RG. [music] Amen.