CHAZAQ's Torah Talks #212 Rabbi Moishe Fogel - Effort Is All That Counts

I one time met a uh yeshiva boy who was part of a hockey league. I said, "So, how did you do?" He said, "We lost the championship." I said, "You lost the championship?" "You mean you made it to the championship?" And he thinks for a moment. He goes, "Yeah, I made it to the championship." We live in such a society where it's either all or nothing. You're either a champion or you're a loser. There's no there's no we don't care about the effort you put in. We don't care about how hard you tried. We don't care about how much you've grown. All we care about is did you make it to the top or not. [Music] Welcome everyone to Kazak's Tuesday night program called Torah Talks. We have a very special guest today, Rabbi Moishi Fogle. Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. We're looking forward to hearing from you today. Very special topic called effort is all that counts. And before we jump into into the topic, if we could hear some more of the great work that you're involved with and and more about yourself. >> Sure. My name is Mishi Fogle. I'm fourth grade of Queens. I've been involved with children for over 30 years teaching in the classroom for over 20 and for the past 18 years fourth grade rebi in Shivaktana of Queens. I also have run the P of Karans for the past nine years and I am just passionate about teaching helping them grow in their Torah and their ability to learn Torah and into their understanding and connection to >> amazing. So, so um we we we live in this societ we live in the western I'm saying there's this perception in the western society where where everything is based on just the results. person person could a person could can throw five touchdowns but but they might lose a Super Bowl or they might they might score 50 points in a game but and the first question isn't like when when they get home after it's like okay did you win or you lose like whether they scored one point or 50 points it's we just live in this in general it's probably just one example but even in in in business or students like what what can you touch upon this concept >> it's interesting you mentioned I one time met a uh yeshiva boy who was part of a hockey league And I was smoozing with him and I said to him, "Oh, so you play hockey?" He says, "Yes." I said, "So, how'd you do?" He said, "We lost the championship." I said, "You lost the championship?" You mean you made it to the championship? And he thinks for a moment, he goes, "Yeah, I made it to the championship." We live in such a society where it's either all or nothing. You're either a champion or you're a loser. There's no there's no We don't care about the effort you put in. We don't care about how hard you tried. We don't care about how much you've grown. All we care about is did you make it to the top or not? Yeah. Can can can you elaborate upon um about this th this this mindset this this this theory this mindset and how it's you've been teaching for so many years in in Jewish education. and how maybe it's seeped into um the the tamidim and this education and their mindset. >> Yeah, unfortunately it has seeped in. We don't have much of a choice you know rebum have to give tests to assess how much the boys know and right away a boy looks at his test mark and said I failed or I did worse than somebody else and therefore I'm no good and they don't pay any attention to the amount of effort they put in. True, we do have on the report card, we have a column for effort, but the children will look at the achievement marks because at the end of the day, that's our western society. Achievement is all that counts. But it's not really true. It's really only the effort. >> Okay. Can you can you talk about like what you ended off with about this this concept that that maybe not everything is only solely based on achievement that this maybe that can you give us a new uh vantage point, a new perception maybe? >> Sure. I'll tell you like this. One of the hardest things for me, for parents to give over to their is this idea that effort is what counts and Hashem does not care about your achievements. Only effort. When you go up to Shim, it's your effort. It's how hard you tried. And they have a real problem with this. So, Hashem gave me an amazing idea and I'd like to share with everybody here if you just indulge me. I tell the boy, let's say you're right. Let's say you're really doing poorly. What does he say? He says, "Rebi, you can say efforts all that counts, but at the end of the day, I'm busting my chops to get 60s and this other kid, he's coasting with hundreds. Who gets into the good yeshivas? Who gets the good kusas? Who gets the good? It's everything. I'm licking the bottom of the barrel. Don't tell me effort. And I say, let's say you're right. Let's say this is you down here. And this is the one you like to compare yourself to. Maybe it's your older brother or an old an older boy in other boy in the class. And you say, you know, I'm so far below him. Let's say you're right. Let's say you're below him. But let's look at how much you tried. He tried. He put in some effort. Let's give him a point for that. You put in effort. More effort. More effort. You tried maybe tutors. Maybe you reviewed at home. More effort. And even more effort. You keep on trying. And no matter what happens, it seems to be you're still down at that 60. and he's got that 100. But that's because we live in a linear world, two-dimensional. The way Hashem looks at this world, he looks from a bird's eye view. Threedimensional. That's how Hashem looks at the world. Yeah. Everyone has the exact same reaction whenever I say this over. Everyone does. Low achievers, high achievers, even a videographer had the same reaction. Rashivas and Rabbeim. It's real. You know tell us that a person's supposed to say when will my actions reach those of my fathers now come on even the will never reach that ofu and you're right in this world you may be stuck with the 60s and he got the hundreds and aavino But when you look at the way Hashem looks at it, you put in all your chips. Abra put in all his chips. You are exactly the same as Abrau. The tells an amazing story. Rav's son was nif. He passed away and then he came back. He had and his father said, "What did you see in the world up there?" He said, "I saw an ol that turned over world. Those who are on top were below and those who were below were on top. The marshall says don't think for a minute that son was saying I saw rich people on bottom and poor people on top. He knows that's not important in the world upstairs. He said I saw lower than simpler people. And his father said, "No, you didn't see an olaf, a world turned on its side, but an alm yasher, cuz once it's flat, it makes no difference where on the board you are. It just makes a difference all the effort you put in." Wow, what a mush parable example that will stick with all of us. I um want to ask if you can we have a custom if you could leave us with the we with with all the amazing gems you gave us. He leaves us with what's take-home message, final message for all of us. >> If I could give anybody a take-home message, it would be repeat what I said before. All you have to do is know that all Hashem wants you to do is try your best. Put in your effort. And even if you don't see the achievements, not now, not in a while, that doesn't make a difference because all cares about is how hard you try and that is all that counts. Thank you. And thank you for having me. >> Thank you so much, Falgo. Thank you everyone for for joining us for everyone's of course encouraged to join us every Tuesday night right here on kazak.org/live /live every Tuesday every 8:30 p.m. Of course, everyone can join can watch any previous episodes on Torah anytime on all different podcast players and we shakaya. Thank you so much for having us. [Music]