CHAZAQ's Torah Talks #201 Rabbi Ephraim Glatt, Esq. - Being a Jew in the Workplace

I think that it's important to show that yamas are really defines I'm proud to wear yamaka and I'm proud to be a Jew and I'm proud the fact that when I go in front of a judge judge knows uh this guy is an Orthodox Jew and that's a it's a it's a ma it's a benefit they know that we're we're we're good people we're we're we're righteous we we take things seriously we're not going to curse we're going to act in a way that that that's covert of Torah and befitting someone who's involved in Torah and someone who believes Torah is the main thing and we're here for Parnasa to help encourage encourage it, you know, to break up fights, not to encourage the fight. [Music] And welcome to Kazak's Torah Talk, Kazak's program with special guests. We have we have with us from over here in Queens, our dear friend Rabbi Fran Glad Barab. Welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us. We're going to be speaking about being a Jew in the workplace. And before we get to that exciting topic, if we get a little bit background about the rabbi. Sure. First of all, start for everything that Kazak does and you do in particular for the community for for Israel for continue to be. Amen. Um, a little bit of my background. So, Baram, I'm fortunate. I wear two hats. I am the associate rabbi for the past, you know, decade or so at Young Israel of Qart Hills in this wonderful neighborhood. I've been fortunate to work with Fabian Zatal and Rabbel and now with Rabbi Daniel Rosenfeld, all excellent Raban who I've been fortunate to learn from and work with in a great capacity. My volunteer role at the shu is essentially to run the plus I give him throughout the sh and help run really focus on raising the Torah level and Torah knowledge and knowledge to a higher level and to really increase the excitement about Torah which is something which and which is something I'm very passionate about. Um that's one hat that I wear. Second hat I wear, which is more of a a job, is I'm for the past, you know, decade and a half, I've been an attorney. I started my career as a commercial litigator at a large Manhattan law firm for over a decade. I, you know, our firm was known as a firm that represented Donald Trump. We had some former senators, former AGs, was a really a litigation powerhouse. And I was fortunate to have gained a lot of litigation skills, both aggressive litigating and also how to mediate and works complement hopefully my rabbitic training as well to try to avoid multi-million dollar fights instead of going straight out after those fights. And now the past two, three years, I've uh transitioned. I'm a partner at a local, you know, it's a it's a smaller midsize firm. I'm I'm local and it is called Mcraell and Beninger. We have a real estate group. We have a bankruptcy group. We have a um transactional group generally and um I am part of the commercial litigation group again when people litigation for those that don't know is you know when people fight and they go to court I've bar experience in but they didn't and in secular courts and the goal is to make shalom but you know and if if you can't make shalom then you need a good litigator to you know take it to the next level. Maui, I I knew the rabbi for so many years and I didn't know that hat that the rabbi wore. That's very interesting. Okay, good to know. So, the topic of being a Jew in the workplace, does do you have a story that comes to mind of being a Jew in the workplace that sticks out maybe? So, so Barak Hashem, I don't have one a bad experience for myself. I've appeared in federal courts and in state courts and in I've never felt any discrimination for wearing yamaka, but there is actually a lot of precedent unfortunately especially in these times of anti-semitism. It's not hard to believe. It would have been harder to believe maybe before October 7th. Now it's not unfortunately not hard to believe, but there has been a lot of discrimination against lawyers, experts in courtrooms wearing um yamakas. Actually, in court, there is a case from about, it's probably now it's about 25 years ago, give or take, maybe even more, in which a judge in Texas was running her courtroom and there was an expert witness. Now, an expert witness means that you have two parties fighting and so one side wants to prove their case. So, they call in an expert witness on the topic. It happens to be this expert witness happened to have been an attorney as well. And so this expert I think his name is still a practicing attorney and an expert. He is a worldrenowned expert in injury um prevent preventation and and uh aspects about that in terms of tors in other words you know the reason why you have the net behind the baseball stadium so the ball doesn't hit the the fan. So what are the legal regulations that go into putting up that net and how to protect all the fans of the spectators? So this guy is a guru at that. And so he's called in to testify. I think his name is Professor Frerieded. Must be late 1900 1990s or whatever it is. He's called in to testify in this Texas courtroom about his expertise. And he walks in there and he's wearing a yam. And this Texas judge, I think her name was Pat Los, um, L Y K O S or something like that, she is the presiding judge. She takes one look at him and says, "If you want to testify in this courtroom as an expert, you got to take off your elk." So he turns to the attorney who had hired him to be the expert and he says, "Look, are we going to lose the case if I don't testify?" And the attorney tells him, "Yeah, like we really need you to testify. You're disqualified because you refused to remove your ama. We're toast." And what happens? He removes his Yarmaka and then and then he testifies. Sure enough, he doesn't take it like that. He goes after the case is over, he starts working with some of the, you know, ADL and other groups and they ended up passing a law in Texas that a judge is no longer allowed to do that. This is in early 2000s. And now in order for a judge can't just what's called suisponte can't at her own or his own valition just say you got to remove your yarmaka if the other party wants to say that your yarmaka is prejudicing the jury or prejudicing the the the the judge. So then they could you know ask the court to consider it. But even at that point, the court needs to first like see well maybe if you put your yamaka in the back of your head or you you know wear a smaller yamaka a different color or make it less conspicuous. Then you have to go through all the avenues before the court will tell you at that situation because it prejudices the other side. So then you got to move your ama in other words it's a very hard bar that this professor freed actually recently emailed him when I was looking into his topic like he said really this this judge had a chip on her shoulder. She ended up running for DA in Texas. She won for a few years and then was removed because of some scandal or something. So So Baru, you know, runs the world, but it's pretty pretty wild that even in today's day and age, there's 20 years ago there's blatant anti-semitism by real judges. Wow. It's crazy. So So I know that the rabbi has column and what what does tell us about yamakas and keepas and head coverings and uh it's an interesting topic. by Barash. I'm fortunate to publish a safer and now I also write a as well and the Queen's Jewish link which has given me the opportunity I think Jacob Sar and his team for really you know giving me this platform which is a great way you know I always believe that when you write stuff down and you really understand stuff if you can't write it and can't explain it to the general populace then it's meaningless. I feel the same way. Yeah, it's very it's very important. So I'm I'm very lucky. So I've write this article. So in terms of what says about this topic, we actually gave a series on anti-semitism over at Young Israel of Karn Hills. We had a nice attendance and we really were able to hopefully go through the night keep people up talking about these anti-semitism issues. And so one of the topics we actually discussed was this yarmaka wearing there in general wearing yamakas is a makus a postkim about the severity or the importance of wearing yamakas. It's simply a midas which I'm not which means midas means a a a a pious extra aspect. It's not a requirement. It's a nice idea to wear a yarmaka a pious idea to wear a yarmaka. And that's what some of the postim suggest that look quoted in in the taz quotes and others who say it's a great idea to wear yamaha but you don't wear a yamaka. Okay, there's room obviously to allow that and it's all based on what this what the source of yamaka is in general. The gar kushian says you're not supposed to walk for amas which is four 8 7 8 feet 68t with your head uncovered because theina god's presence resides above our head. So in honor of this presence God's presence we try to cover up our head. So that's that's the one opinion. However, there is a second opinion about the importance of yamak and that's the taz. The taz is an 1600s is a post 1700 says says that the reason for yam is so the says which means you shouldn't copy the non-Jews non-Jews when they walk around they remove their yarmaka when they enter into a holy place at least they used to that that's an important sentence but in the olden days in their churches and in their in their holy places they walk in the street with the yamaka and then they would remove it so us as Jews wear yarmaka to distinguish ourselves and say we're not like the general populace the regular nations of the world we as Jews we always keep our yamaka on so that's the general background now there is a famous post the malamoa who lived in late 1800s early 1900s in Germany I think rebuffman his name was and he has a fascinating chuva a a a response in which someone asked him this following question I need to go to a German court to testify and I need to possibly invoke God's name, swear or affirm whatever they did in German courts in 1905 or whatever it is. And can I remove my yarmaka? I don't want to be prejudiced. I don't want people to be prejudiced rather against me. I don't want people to use bias against orthodox Jews. And the mamame says, "Look, these Hungarian rabbis are very strict about yamos. We German Jews don't believe that. We follow the opinion that it's just a midas. It's just a pious issue. If you're going to lose money for it, then you're not obligated. If you're going to lose the court case because you're wearing a yamaka, he says you could take it off. He says, and he brings a fascinating story. He says, "When I, the Mamed Wo, was interviewing for my job at Reb Shamshin Rafal Hersh's school in Germany as a Rebi, I walked in with my head covered." And Shamsher Falh himself told me to remove my head covering because he said the other teachers are going to think it's disrespectful that when you meet with a director like me of the school that your head is covered which is a wild thing because in those days in Shamsh's school grammar school and that's what the boys only wore their yarmakas in the morning and not in the afternoon for secular studies. So Muhammad Rahul says in German jewelry at that point it was completely normal to not wear your yarmaka and therefore he said in this case when you're going to court and you're going to lose money if you don't wear remove your yarmaka it's fine to remove your yamaka. Now well that is obviously a quite controversial position and in fact this article in which was published a few years ago in which later versions of the Muhammad is actually censored they remove this page from the chuva from the book because they didn't like that idea that it's true because the custom today and we'll see you know as we progress in our talks we could talk about other you know postkim who perhaps disagree with with with with that with that Another famous saying is having fear of the queen. Yeah, that's where you have it over us to remind us that we have someone over us God Almighty. I also remember learning he says that today to be part of the to be the camp of the Jewish people of of your shima or something along those lines. He says you have to wear a yamaka. That's what I remember learning over there. But a common scenario that comes up is someone wondering whether to wear yamaka in a job or interview. Uh and he's questionable. Yes. No. What do we advise in such scenarios? So it's funny. So what you just said about is actually very relevant to to that topic. Ramosa in 1970 Ramosa Feinstein then 19 in 1970 in Igus Mosha I think 7374 was asked a question by Eringer or Mr. Angler I think Rabbi Aranganger in in um Denver, Colorado place obviously we know unfortunately in today's times is a hot bed unfortunately of anti-semitism which we just saw you know a few few weeks ago and so he was asked by someone in his 70s from heirlinger if was going on a job interview if he's allowed to remove his yarmaka because he was told by the recruiter that this employer won't hire anyone. one maybe it was even the employer who told him he won't hire him in this office job if he's wearing gam and so he asks her Moshe what am I supposed to do I'm going to lose my parnosa I'm here in Denver I need a parnosa I'm given this great opportunity lose my yamaha what am I I mean take off my yanka lose the job so Mosha says to him you're allowed to remove your yamaha for the job interview what about the taz who was so strict about wearing yamaka to distinguish ourselves from the non-Jews. So he says, well that taz was only in those times, earlier times because nowadays you walk in the street, especially since post John F. Kennedy, no one's wearing hats in the streets. Jews, non-Jews. So it's not like the non-Jews go to a temple and remove their head covering. They're not wearing a head covering to begin with. So he says the whole law of the taz wouldn't be as strict. the stringency of wearing a yam that it's that it's you know distinguishing ourselves as a Jewish nation actually wouldn't apply that's where Moshe writes to which the deina the bear Moshe not Mosha Feinstein but the the the beer Mosheba of Stern wrote a scathing chuva disagreeing very strong with their emotion and he brings a funny story says a story about a man and a wife who are fighting with each other I see this unfortunately in in litigation all the time. People come in in front of court, they're spewing and spitting and and screaming and cursing at each other. Unfortunately, it's horrible. The fighting that goes on and the husband and wife come in front of the de in front of the bear Mosha Debert and he's just sitting there looking back and forth. There's this one's hurling insult. This one's hurling insult at him back and forth. Finally, at some point, the wife turns to the hus turns to the Deborah Cena rabbi and says, "I can't believe I'm going to tell you this." Man, I'm not going to say it. No. Should I say it? I'm going to tell you, Rabbi, the most amazing thing about my husband. I can't even believe I'm going to say it. I I don't know if I should say it. Okay, I'll say it. She says at night now this family his husband and wife the behoshites barely kept shabas like they were he calls them the benet America they were kept barely shabas maybe nida you know certain marital laws and kashut that's it nothing else they were barely religious and the woman says to says says to the bear motion I'll tell you about my husband he comes home every night he reads a secular newspaper on the couch and as he does that he takes off his yarmaka. I can't believe I'm telling you this, but he removes his yarmaka. The husband, according to the beosha, writes, jumps up and says, "I'm sorry. You're right. I'm so embarrassed. That must be the cause of our fighting." And they walked out happy. And the beosh writes, he says that is the proof that Yamaka today is a defining factor of at least a Jewish male is a Jew is the defining factor of a Jewish male person. He said and that it's even though it may not be, it's a Jewish orthodox symbol that shows I'm in. I'm part of the faith. I'm in. And that's is exactly what he said. And so it's that be Mosha said of course he shouldn't remove his yamok for a job. And he said he was asked a question about a guy who same questioner Mosha different questioner and the bear motion said don't take the job and sure enough the bear motion of foot like at the end writes I got a letter a few weeks later after the questioner asked the question that he got a better job where he could wear yam with higher pay. So that's that's this Mosha the Moshe about how important it is you know to wear yamaka on a job interview 100%. And if you see someone you know walking on the streets and and and you see with that yamama like all all of a sudden like your assium has not part of the fault. Yeah. And uh that's what I always tell people the importance of a importance of having it on on top of your head. Uh so many gems so many uh so such a beautiful Torah talk. We have a min we have a custom and Torah talk a final message for our broader audience to bring this all together. Thank you again for having me. I think I would share my own personal experience maybe as a message when I interviewed at you know big law firms in about 15 16 years ago. I was fortunate to get two offers from two big law firms. One firm one of the orthodox partners in that first firm told me he doesn't wear yamaka. No one in none of the firm guys in the firm wear yamaka. told me look you probably if you get the job many of this place is not to worry about second firm I got was a firm where yamakas weren't so common but there were a handful of yarmakas in the from people in this big law firm handful of two three four who walked around proudly with a yamaka and I ended up ultimately choosing that was a defining factor one of the defining factors in choosing firm number two instead of firm number one was because I believe I went in yamaka whether It's a I'm usually a pretty guy. So from a perspective, there's definitely room to remove the sham saying someone removes it. There's definitely strong basis in to allow the removal of a yamaka. For me, it felt wrong. You know, I've always as a rabbi, as someone who's involved in the Jewish community, someone as a father of children who I want hopefully to look up to their father and look up to someone as someone who's proud to be, you know, both the RV and someone who's in the business world. I think that it's important to show that yamakas are really defines. I'm proud to wear yamaka and I'm proud to be a Jew and I'm proud the fact that when I go in front of a judge, the judge knows uh this guy is an Orthodox Jew. That's it's a it's a milo. It's a benefit. They know that we're we're we're good people. We're we're we're righteous. We we take things seriously. We're not going to curse. We're going to act in a way that that that's covert of Torah and befitting someone who's involved in Torah and someone who believes Torah is the main thing. And we're here for Parnasua to help encourage it and you know to break up fights not to encourage the fighting. And that's the whole attitude to litigation. Are we going to look and try to as a lawyer we going to try to build a client as much as possible to try to ek as much money or no? We really our goal as an attorney is to really make sham and to really try to make sure that people are look you want people to enforce their rights for sure but you can enforce your rights in different ways. going to enforce your rights as like the outside world or you can enforce your rights as a Torah the Yamaha wearw wearing Jew that really believes in a higher calling of the presence God is on top of this very very true and very very powerful I'm glad I have to add about the famous story of an individual that was driving on the highway and he saw a guy with a yamaka on the side of the road with a flat tire and he goes and he starts helping him right away and then when when he starts talking about shu what Rabbi. He's like, "I don't know what you're talking about. Sh. What is sh rabbi?" He's like, "J?" "No, I'm not Jewish." "What are you wearing?" He's like, "My mother said, "Whenever I'm stuck on the on the on the on the highway, just put this on and someone will stop and help you." Beautiful. It's beautiful. It's really such a such a such a lesson. Yeah. So, so uh very very very thankful to you, Rabbi, for for your time, for coming and inspiring us being a Jew in the workplace. the importance of Yamaga Vakipa and we want to thank our various different platforms for hosting Kazak Torah talk. Special thank to all the various different staff members and and and volunteers and board members supporters of Kazak and be behind the camera. Thank you so much. And uh daily giving a dollar day goes very very far away. We encourage everyone to get involved. Amazing amazing organization. and were always telling these kids uh you know these public school kids and that there's so many stories of them just by wearing it changed them and it became closer to Hashem. So uh we should take this message to heart and episode number 20 with Rabbi Fryl Vlad. What an amazing amazing Torah talk we had and we'll see you Tuesday nights 8:30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. kazak.orglive chzq.orglive uh info kazak.org send us more requests. Uh we get so much great feedback. I love it. Everywhere I go, people tell me I listen to this that one. I love that one. And that's what keeps us the engine going to continue. And uh the inspiration is amazing. And we should only hear about goodness. Thank you. Very nice. Thanks so much. [Music]