CHAZAQ's Torah talks #149 Rabbi Mordechai Eisenberg - When To Be Stringent & When Not To Be

if the custom is to be stringent and a person's not it's like when you break a fence down and the snakes come in so maybe it's an addition onto the law but it's been accepted for a thousand years so in what way was it accepted in what situations was it accepted when yes when no when is it a Torah law that absolutely can't be violated when is it violated because of because of a need to save a life even that has its own rules so it's really very confusing answering when to be stringent when not to be stringent becomes a very very difficult question [Music] and welcome to Tor talks kazak Tuesday night program with special guests we have with us all the way from New Jersey ra morber welcome so good to have you Rabbi thank you so much for all that you do we're GNA be speaking about when to be stringing and when not to but before we get to the topic we get a little bit background about yourself and the great work you're involved with so I've been in malborne New Jersey for about 18 years um it's a cure of community is the there um we have a for about 10 years um the community is growing people are becoming closer to Torah and in the KY we actually teach younger light how to become Rabon how to lead communities amazing how to we learn from the sources from the gimar and we go all the way down to Thea and then they get practice in the in the kir community that we're in amazing I was hoping for you to say I guess I'll mention it that the your your lineage the great-grandfather was your grandfather Feinstein and how is it to uh have that Merit to be able to have great-grandfather grandfather G it's something that I can't imagine living without because that's how I grew up but people ask me that all the time um to me my great-grandfather of mha was a great-grandfather he was nter right after I right before I turned eight I was born pm he was ni Tinus eser and I do remember him there's a video going around right now that I I never saw before um of me learning with him really yeah I just saw it for the first time and I I didn't I remember it but I never knew there was a video wow so so it was very nice to see but for me he was a z was so warm so nice and and he just loved seeing all of us he somehow even though he was the busiest man in the world he he seemed to have time for all of us so it was a very very special thing that was my understanding of of course we knew he was very great we knew people would come and visit all the time but now now that I'm older and I have this my grandfather should live and be well for many many years um not only do I have a close Casher with him I learned with him for three hours a day when I was when I was in Kyo when I was in there shiv KY and and uh we learned together have stories about that but then after after afterwards now he's the M of a lot of times we get a question and we don't know really know how to approach it and you know it's not only about what it's of course it all goes back to the gimar we review the gamar many many times even after we learn the we go back to the gamar again that's how the K Works um that's our M from from raos that's how you you know and pass from the gamar but what happens when you have a challenging question you have to have a m and how and a tradition how answer it and this we go visit we sit down we talk about the tough questions way to Staten Island all the way to Staten Island and uh we sometimes if he on the way to Something in Lake w'll stop in maloro and uh and he he's he really gives us this this guidance that's that's so valuable that's what it's like unbelievable and another hat that the rabbi wears is uh I guess on a more recent uh level is you're involving with the great work of shuu shuu is amazing yes it is listen you know I I I good to be in the mission together we were on the mission together that was my first mission came with my my my grandfather um yeah it was amazing we uh shuu impressed me not just because of its sheer scale and how what they're doing but I am involved in kiru I've been in malor for a long time and I know what it takes I know what it takes for a family to make that change I know what it takes to reach out you do this in kazak you reach out you work with the families and people are on different levels and they're working at different speeds and the kids are interested and now the parents par are interested and how much work does it take for one family how valuable is one family infinitely valuable 100% I go to at walk into there's 850 kids and the families and it's just it absolutely blew me away and my grandfather said when we were there he said that the the the learning they're doing there at shuu is on a level and it's true they're it's on a level of a regular Yeshiva they have a great secular program it attracts the kids that it's it's an amazing amazing thing to be involved with them I mean so I want to just jump back to the col what makes your col unique there that there's a lot of different colas out there but if you would pinpoint something what would that be when you when you're learning the for when you're learning for the law to what people should do so so there are many many places where they can do it and they do it well um we happen to have a very strong M as I mentioned before we have we have leadership of my grandfather and it's very very special we are in a kiru community we're not in a community surrounded by all people just like us so questions will come in that we wouldn't necessarily get in other places so we're we're really learning how to understand people different backgrounds coming from a different place how the how the law applies to them in the place where they're at and that's really Irreplaceable it's very special for us we also bring in uh Professionals in different fields to train B asarum of course you know not not during this not during the learning session but to train our yungal light the people in the col how to be a first responder for things like shom Bas we had the great Rabbi torski from Brooklyn of course came to he was also on the mission with us at TR yes he was he uh he came to to give them a course on shom Bas coaching amazing because if people are having a little bit of an issue who's the first person they go to they're Rabbi you have to becoming a therapist but you have to know what how do you respond initially where do you refer to when do you refer when can you answer when can't you answer how do you use your Torah knowledge when is it beyond what you can use Torah knowledge for and Beyond just advice and re real coaching this is he teaches that a chaffron from the Auda came to teach diplomacy the diplomacy 100% you know we have uh Dr Dave Dr David lman from from from Lakewood he came to teach us how public speak yeah yeah and and and there are many different areas I'm leaving out a lot of people because it's just a list a long list a big a wordsman from teaches end of life issues and and and other issues so so really there they have a lot of training so they're really ready or the truth is some of them don't necessarily become they become RAB but if if a the seventh grade rebi knows how to answer a shom Bas question he's going to get them yeah people are needed this it's not wherever you put yourself in in the service of the tior in the service of the Jews the Jewish people you're going to be needed oh yeah we see it all the time so that's the we have rabam that came out of the col we have we have some businessmen that came out of the col too we have a some Rabon that came out of the col and PAs shus all of them are answering Hal questions for their communities whatever they're doing so I wouldn't say necessarily we're producing Pulpit rabbis we're ucing people who can be in a leadership position within the community and serve Claus amazing and to the topic that we're going to be speaking about about when to be stringent when not to be stringent how do that apply to the call that's key that's because you know people people say okay maybe I'll just Google it gra Google grab a Google I'm gonna go look it up to see what the is and you'll probably get a a great deal of information but you know the question is what is the is the case exactly the same as what it is in does the fact that the the Cod of Jewish law tell me that I need to do this but you know if it's a really pressing situation you can do that well then why shouldn't I always do that you know if that's the law right what do I need to be stringent for sometimes it's uh it's the other way around this is this is the law but it's nice to be stringent so it's very confusing so the way that that the the K is very very involved in exactly when we're supposed to and when we're not supposed to we have thousands of years of Mur of tradition and there are expressions throughout throughout kazal throughout the Ric writings that say things like you know if if the if the custom is to be stringent and and a person's not it's like when you break a fence down and the snakes come in so maybe you know it's not it's an addition onto the law but it's been accepted for a thousand years right so in what way was it accepted in what situations was it accepted when yes when no when is it a Toral law that absolutely can't be violated when is it violated because of because of a need to save a life even that has its own roles so it's really very confusing answering when to be stringent when not to be stringent becomes a very very difficult question right but that's something that Thea has a focus on we very much focus on especially because you're in a cure of community yes I'll actually give you an amazing amazing story that happened to to me sure uh in our community there are many families like I say that are coming closer and you know sometimes one person in the family could be a little closer than the other ones especially if there education involved right I mean you know what kazak yeah for sure what's the key to the Jewish future the wom the girls the women the girls and the education ah yeah for sure education you put them in a Yeshiva you put people in in a Jewish school in a surrounding of Judaism then they they learn about it it's sweet it's wonderful it's nice it has an effect on the whole family they should live and it's that's how that's that's what's so important so there there's a Shalom Torah in our community oh yeah of course um right now it's run by RAB K RAB sharf wonderful wonderful institution and we send we send the we send the teens the kids to the Shalom Tor after they graduate they go they go on to a Yeshiva somewhere so the particular Yeshiva that this particular generation of teens were going to whereas a was um there was a rebi there and this rebi was on fire he's great he is a great man and he was telling them you have to accept on yourself is you have to keep is Big topic especially and he says so many things about it and it's some people say oh he was he only if it's not available some people say no was it's very not clear to people what he held I happen to have M on it but if I'm going to you know maybe it's a topic for another talk another time but uh but I told these boys that at the time that it's that right now you shouldn't be keeping Israel and they and I went through the the the topic with them explained why it's the law Whata was saying when yes to be stringent when no to not okay they went back to Yeshiva and they started they started hacking this revi um they started you know going back to him and telling him this is what we heard from from from every Eisenberg that you knowa meant like thisa meant like that we're not going to keep now so the rby sent them back with his arguments he went back and forth for a couple of years wow then they graduate ated some of them of course keep C now some of them don't and I met this rby at a wedding years later I said Rabbi so and so my name is Mor Eisenberg we've been fighting by proxy for years so he so he looked at me funny he's like he's you know he smiled a little bit he goes I shouldn't tell them they should keep so I said of course you should you're their rebi you're showing them what you can do what you can be what's what what's the greatest how do you live they should want to be like you I said but I'm one of their abon of the family they can't eat in their parents house anymore M they shouldn't be able to go out for ice cream and the re was taken a and he said you know you're absolutely right why didn't you tell me that so I said because you needed to tell them to keep they had to have both that's the job of a rebi and that's the job of a RV and a pis and then later they'll figure out their own lives they'll figure out where they're at what's right for them right 100% that is in a nutshell how a simple can make or break a person's growth in yish 100% true so how does the average person listening to this podcast to this Torah talks how does it apply to his life he doesn't have the to Merit to go to the to the rabbi's col to hug with rabbi Eisenberg and to get uh that's a great question what do you suggest I suggest what the mishna in P suggests you got and people think that for for a for a law question I have to have a r but for a question sure it's a nice thing to do whenever I'm ready to do it if it's a stringency if it's not the law a stringency I should definitely do it you know so so then they don't they don't think that something you have to ask thereof but it's not true you probably have to ask the r more that than anything else because it's it's it's the way that we're living for the right for if you're if you're holding in a certain place it could be that the is not a you must do it if you're holding in a different place it's the worst thing in the world for you to mean where they're holding spiritually not where they're placed physically where there there is that aspect with regard to Amica could be good for the parents could not be good for the kids if you're living in a certain Community it could be the kids will feel if you this this particular stringy or maybe you have to because it'll protect you so which one is it it's very hard to know wow 100% right it's very hard to know um the the Rama of course the he he says in the the preface to one of his books one of his far he says that's the name of the book he says that people ask him how come sometimes he says that you know the law is like this but if it's a he a large law L AB M losing some money M abuba sometimes a large you know a little loss a large loss or or if it's AR of chabas right or if it's a or if it's a person who has less money then it's okay so which is it what's the law is a law like this or is the law like that so he says that the the custom for for many many years is to try to it to stay away from possibility of violating the Torah law even according to one opinion even if it's a minority minority opinion but that's not the law he says but that is minra like I said before about breaking the fences and the snakes you can't you can't go against that that's that's the law that is the law right but the law was never accepted in these situations he said but the r has to tell the person I'm doing this because it's a a financial issue it's not the regular law and and for me what always was so so important about that so impressive and amazing about that H what he says over there is that he Compares he says an on during the week a poor person during the week is equivalent to a rich man on a of chabas which means that the r has to take into account emotional pressure which in today's day of age we see amount of emotions and mental health and all the stuff that's going on has a very big effect yeah yeah it's it's and that's why I say you know when you're considering taking on something and you feel spiritually ready to take on this thing that you know is a you really have to consult string you have to consult with the rebi because you have it has to be right for you it has to be right for your family it has to be it has to be where you're really at and then it's a big Mitzvah to do it of course you should 100% how about the i' I've had this in the past that there was um an individual that came over to you he said you know the snake and the story with Adam and Eve and Adam Anda and the rule was that they shouldn't eat from the tree and uh what did the snake do what do they say not to touch it and they took on the stringency and that was their downfall what do you answer to such an that is such a great question because it's actually a br and of that means in in pavos one of the one of mnas there's a there's a set of bris and outside commentaries of the of the of the tan authorities offer of Nas right and there it says this actually straight out over there what happened the mishna says you should make a fence around the Torah which is what we're talking and on that mishna it says make a fence like Hashem made like Moshe made like like adish made it says and which we're talking about here and and and and then it gives a list of people and said and what fence did make this exact thing that you said he said to said to his wife hasem said don't touch it which sounds like it was a bad idea because because of that se so the Miss is trying to sell that you should make a fence around the Torah and then it says a disaster the disaster of the whole history of the whole Humanity because of this nice idea you're giving me so the mishna says over there it actually says that he should have told her it was AOG it was offense had had to made it clear she should know this is what Hashem said we are taking this upon ourselves as an extra special thing that we're being careful powerful and this is exactly what we've been talking about yeah 100% knowledge knowledge is is is so so important on the other hand I will tell you that actuallya is a phenomenal thing when you talking about you know I'm I'm sounding like kumas might be so dangerous maybe you shouldn't do them I want to say on the other side I want to tell you what Raa says in one of his respons grandfather so heid it's a respons Ider where he writes it's um if people are looking for it it's it's in the um and it's it's like number 15 or 16 had written to because he wanted to write a book on which he did and he asked him a whole plethora of questions a lot of questions in that in that Chua and is one section on cooking on shabas where mosha says that thing that everybody talks about about making tea in a kichi they made songs about it now they you can make you make tea on chabas in the third utensil this is not a Hal podcast right ask ask ask your Rabbi before you start doing anything like that but um but local orthod local orthod Rabbi um and a rabbi who knows you because it's important not just been discussing up until now right exactly it's got to be it's a relationship so Raa says this that he's M he allows the the te situation in the third utensil and then in the next piece or the piece right after next piece he says asks him about instant coffee and says yeah instant coffee is considered cooked it's cooked it's roasted and there's different you know sides to it you could you could definitely make it in a cliche you could for sure um maybe even maybe more than that but he says but however he says however says even though the is not like this he says this in the trva he never says this and he never told people he's very m self a lot of stringencies on himself but never for others of course he didn't need right so he but he's known for he's the one who spread it around right it's okay because he held up with without here he says also the the din the law is absolutely you could make it like that but he said I never put coffee into a cles I would I would never put it into anything 30 Tel what does that mean this is a man who when he looked at a bowl of soup on chabas he didn't see water and carrot and chicken he saw a temperature and rabbis standing around the soup saying okay this can cook this can't cook that's what he saw and and he is because of his own stringency he didn't want to put it in and it's not the law he says it's not the law so that means if you are a you know me so then you have certain things that you should do with certain things you shouldn't do follow the law maybe you have some stringencies if you're the godor then stringency level that you required to do goes up much higher yeah for sure and the gamor says gamor says that that ravs that RAV students great RAV asked his wife what what what what he kept at home so thear says why don't you just ask your rebi wife what are you bothering her for she's busy she's making PES probably yeah the next week so so so she's busy making PES and you're asking him what the ask the RAB rabie he's sitting in the B Mish so the gar says because he wouldn't have told them he would have told them that they could be lenient rashy explains he would never tell them what things he's stringent about of course he's more stringent he's on a higher level wow so rabbi's bringing bring bringing from this side and from this side and every single person should you know meet and see where he's holding and what and speak to his Rob to his rebi and how do we apply all this like you said PES is a week away p is the holiday you know make make sure that is not so so happy that it doesn't become kosher and make sure that is not so kosher it doesn't become what's the that's the line right is the line definitely and and and and it's true obviously we WEA used to say all the time that one of the reasons why there was such a challenge to religion in the a lot of the children were not holding in yish kind in Judaism because they would come home after uh after work after work on a Friday when would lose their job and they would say an expression in yish I'm sorry my yish is not the best but there you go hard to be a to be Jewish because they have to give up their job every week in order to keep shabas and they would hear this what do I need this for and the kids would just would just say okay we grow up it's too hard what do I need it for exactly and and the question always is so what they shouldn't have quit their jobs of course they should of course they should so they should come home they should smile they should just be all smileing listen if they can do it great um but I think the real answer is they they could have they they would have come home and said it's it's hard but it's so worth it tell the children why it's worth it why are you doing this why are you giving me up your job so my answer to PES is the custom is in certain areas of of Hal the rabbis treat it more stringently certain areas we treat it less stringently and the rabbi has to know that too it's not just it's about the person but it's also about where the law is coming from P we are sure it's true and if you talk to Rabon they'll tell you you don't have to do certain things that we that we do to clean up right and but but on the other hand things that are usually Batel things that usually fall in and they're okay they're nullified it's like one in 60 whatever this I'm not getting to the law I want people you know to to hear the wrong one Express the wrong one but normally certain things are nullified because they're not they're so tiny but on PES is no nullification that's a so it's it's not like we started this idea of being so so so kosher that is not nowadays the answer is it's got to be so kosher and it's got to be and if you're not sure which one you can do talk to your Rabbi 100% but you're starting off with yes the Min is to absolutely be with everything that we said before if the Min is to be M the Min is to be stringent the custom is to be stringent then you have to be stringent that becomes the law that is the law right that's the that's the law the Torah law the RAB law and the law we accepted on ourselves and that's what we have to do p if you feel the Torah clearly says whatever the rabis say you do so in essence it is a Tora tah law that's right any La is a Torah law and and and it's it's so important to know both sides can be dangerous and being too stringent is dangerous being too lenient is dangerous but on PES we lean towards stringency but if it interferes with your life and with your happiness and with your family because they're getting upset that you're being so stringent then the one to talk to who knows the sources understands the applications and understands you and your family is your Rabbi 100% 100% this is something that we've had many times in Torah talks the importance of making for yourself a rabbi many people I speak to and they're like oh yeah it's a problem it's an issue so this is something that could remove a lot of doubts make a lot of people happy and kosher and follow the the right uh certainly the goal yeah kosher and happy y That's it has to be something that that the children love it has to it's all about what about to give it over to the children that's you have to give it over you know writes and both write that they say that people think that that the joy of learning takes away from the Mitzvah like you know if you're enjoying it maybe you know I love learning so maybe you should try a little less to be you should be more you know feel if I'm holding a little and I like the cool feel on my hand it probably takes away a little bit from the Mitzvah supposed to be focusing so here both say the same thing they said theah the Commandment to learn Torah includes it includes that it has to be smart sharp in your mouth and it has to be something that your children want to do you have to be you have to be able to to think of things right away you can't think of things right away if you don't love them you need to love Torah therefore the the joy of learning Torah is a part of the Mitzvah 100% And you know what else it's also part of teaching your children it's one of the same if you're not enjoying yourself if you can't incorporate the and be happy about it the stringency then talk to your it it's just not it's not it might might be good for you to live like that but we need to be able to pass it to the next generation and the best way of passing the next generation is by setting an example because the kids learn and see the way the parents are if they're not Happ a happy example exactly 100% Rabbi is so many beautiful gems insights I'm enjoying every single second I wish this on forever and ever and ever but I don't want to get in trouble here but all serious ISS we have custum and Torah talks a final message could hear from the rabbi the final message we've been saying the whole time is exactly what the mishna says say find yourself someone who you understand knows the sources knows the Torah spent the Years Learning and also understands you and your family make that relationship and ask the right questions and don't think that just because something is not black on white a Jewish law that it's not something to talk out over with the RAB 100% talk it over with 100% true really appreciate your time and your insights and your and and we should only hear only good news and another amazing episode ofak T talks with RAB morai eberg when to be stringent when not to and uh we want to remind everyone every single Tuesday night 8:30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time k.org cq. R glive special thank you to all of our different podcast players with a shout out to our friends at Tor anytime also Daily giving a dollar day goes a very far away thank you very much and the the entire kak team and staff and volunteers and board members and and donors we forever grateful we want to only [Music]