Gevinas Yisroel Rabbi Hershel Krinsky Senior Mashgiach OK Kollel Anash Crown Heights 5786

I learned it. I like our middle learning it. So uh about the 9:30 we talk a little bit about one of the denim ins first talks about second talks about venus and the third talks about we're going to talk about for a few minutes now is what is Venus So is not the same zeta as it's not the same timing. It's not the same reasoning. It's a separate zeta completely. So I still learn the piece in in word. I hope you know it. I remember I can look it up. It doesn't say what owned by a made by a cheese. They put on them because they made they're made with renet. Renet is the coagulating agent that uh makes cheese. When you have milk, you have to separate the solids from the liquid and the solids eventually become cheese. And uh that's called renet in English. And then here they're called cavo because it's made from the stomach of an animal. That's where it's naturally found. And since they use animal for that. So therefore you're not allowed to use you're not allowed to buy their cheeses. Even if they made the cheese with grasses, which there is a way of making it with grasses, not with tas, not with flesh, it's still the ra no ifs and whats. You can't use a cheese. You can't eat a go cheese because even when you know it was made with kosha ingredients, you can't use it. comes and says, "Yep, we don't eat we don't eat cheese." We'll soon see what that means. Who gave a to see if the was standing and watched the way the guy made the cheese that you can eat it that if the Yid watches the make the cheese then it's fine and then you can buy it from the so on and so forth. So we have a mus holds you can't ever buy go cheese at least that's what it says here and then says unless if watch the go make it then you're allowed to eat it what is first of all who is so there's interesting it's a place in in a way disorder a flam if you want to lift it up. uh brings down a whole big long they call them wide long tus and they uh he brings down different reasons for the existence of of and then he brings down mish towards the end that's noron nbon is a province in southern France near Spain it's on the Mediterranean and southern France Venus rack because they were always made over there with asabin never with ren made with different kind of vegetables or grasses. So the Ram is here to to say no didn't agree with that maybe in Nabun they did that in the province of Nabon but in general it's not we we don't buy cheese then says comes and says if you uh if watched then it's comes then it's fine the the did they learn shakia okay good along There's a long sha here on this den about the kit is that he says even if you watch it the shark comes again no it's not enough you have to pass it make it the has to do it physically put the rend into the milk that se that starts the separation process and that has to be put in by a yid man we don't pour it in by ourselves we push a button and it pumps in and it has to do that pull watching is not enough. Normally and you would say that not and how did that come out? One of the ways is because there's a negative there's a truth on this who and he writes and that's enough of the watches based on that is and uh it's enough on the watches. Just to put in a not work for the Okay. So, we have many cheese plants that we certify the cheese all the way and so on. Um, we tell the mashia, whoever we're sending in there, that he has to put the renet into the vat either pour it in depending on the plan. Some pour it in, some push a button, whatever it is. Mash can if he has to be the shabas and they want to make cheese on shabas and which happens he's uh he should only watch because he's not allowed to make cheese. So he can't make it the go makes it and the washes. No in general cheese is a preservation of milk. a molec before refrigeration. If a person had a cow or two and made enough milk for his family for that day or he couldn't keep it for a day or two, there was no way to keep it. It would go bad. It get sour. So what they did was they used up right away whatever they could or needed and the rest they made into cheese cuz cheese stays longer. Doesn't need to be refrigerated as much. So that's the whole in of cheese because it separates. A cheese is a separation of the milk where the proteins cast casein and other proteins are separated from the what we call whey why weey is the liquid that's left over and the cheese is uh hard becomes hard and you press it you get out all the liquid all the way and the cheese can stay like that doesn't always have to be refrigerated all the time of course you leave it out after a week or two it'll go bad but in general it it doesn't there are some cheeses that age to 6 months so or more. Now the cheese when we tell them we tell them during the week you put them rent it in yourself push the button whatever it is if you're there and you have to be there and they want to make you uh you just uh do now in those that want to look it up later in the in the in the hoodli brings another very interesting den which we do use and that is if by the way the brought down here so you can find out the exact Islam um if owns the renet they call it the ko the stomach the renet the pe the coagulating agent nowadays they make it in the laboratory inside and flesh gets part of and they can there's no issues if a ye owns it. So the the says since the is going to be using the Eid's he can't make cheese without the raid is a from the cheese and that's enough to be called um we mash use this and don't use this what do I mean we instruct all the mash they should make a ky on the renet if it's a a plant that doesn't a a lot of cheese. A lot of times we do a pick up the whole stack of barrels of renet and we also pay for it. So it be owned completely but it's owned by Eid. That is just in case of some kind of follow up in the plant and it once happened to us that that they uh they told that's all we're making and I went out to his car and then they decided to make another vet and he was in the car. He wasn't in the plant. He didn't walk. He couldn't see it. He was on the premises but he couldn't see it from him but since you own the cheese since you own the renet the cheese is mutter and so on. So this is also of it's not brought down anywhere else that owning the renet makes your in the cheese that the go it's interesting uh we use it in a consious it's it's used this >> so the so the plant pays back >> yeah we build the plant for services rendered but but uh they we we get the bill from the render company if it's a company that does cassada not once They once a month we have companies that are working on cheese the whole time. Kosher cheese fulltime musk and such a case we get the bill we pay for it whenever it comes muskim make a bond comes in jugs small pills make a bond at all. That's just to get the help that you need in case there's a problem. You have the to eat that cheese. >> So what does that have to do with both? >> But doesn't hold it is an older problem. >> Yeah. an Indian maybe but it since the mab doesn't say clearly just says go cheese it would say how to get it in anyway the ra brings into how to how to be m cheese and uh shak I don't know I don't know the last 40 years they have built up their own uh existence and their own so it's funny I didn't see that it's fine don't donate cheese we did have by the An interesting my anecdote. We had a a plant in the west coast that was making kosher cheese around the clock. I mean all week shave had all week. We had two two people that slept there. They had a trailer and each one was on for 12 hours. And every there was always someone there and um they uh they make they make 40b blocks. It's a block about this big of chiefs. The machine that presses it into they make them one after the other and they pack them. So we got a call I got the call from one of their appointment at a different agency. It doesn't have to mention the agency who it is different agency. All right. Um what are you doing in this plant? This plant what are you doing there uh for Shams and Yat? I said nothing. But they make cheese and then the the mash stands there and marches like the mo. Yes, but we don't want to go according to the mug. We want to go only according to the sh that you have to put in and you can't put it on on shops and so what are you doing? I didn't want to argue with them because I told every every block of cheese gets ink jetted and it goes by a thing. It jets the date the time on it and it prints on the on the plastic around the cheese. Every single block of cheese says a date and a time. Tell your customer that wants to buy it, don't buy Travis cheese if you know if you're if that's your policy. If your policy is to not to use at that time, we were the only ones that had such a plant. So later on the other this other agency got their own plant doing it and they also so depends what's when when you're asking. As far as finding I don't I never heard us find him not being madic and figuring out you know if they only the soil cheeses that we eat >> are not made of chas >> why it's companies >> today it's today it's all companies >> national culture they have all over the United States >> yeah but it's also it's they have they don't work at shows >> saying today all producers of of cheese are are are from people >> not the producers the purchasers the the pro the companies are all going really well most of them >> he's saying you just don't you just don't you don't buy they don't buy in chabas they don't take the shabas run >> they don't they sending someone to to make cheese Monday and Tuesday or Wednesday and Thursday they don't make them >> see like uses a British factory >> kosher yummy but What other companies do you want to know? Of course, none of them have their own factories, isn't it? None of them. Factories are very big. You can't afford them. They go in for half a day, for a few hours, for a day, depending on how much they need. >> So, you're saying this ma was a mo, but there's no place doing shabas. >> No, this wasn't a cheese place when this was a regular cheese, >> which according to is good. Um so uh yeah the pel things change in certain areas according to the times that now the mo became whereas they said they didn't anyway so just to show I don't know if you the sha that we mentioned the sha brings and that we don't we don't uh we don't we don't eat cheese from go unless he participated not just walks he participated but they bring down their good talks about it in the shabas chabas was a problem for for you he had a cow he couldn't milk it so he had to go milk it going to do with the milk it'll go bad by the on Chavis's lease to make cheese for me and they make cheese on Chavis. So Chavis is a is an issue for for a farmer from Eden as a cow. What's interesting is that uh greens I think it's I have it here. I think it's in shin. Yeah. What is allowed to do on what not? So there's a brings there's a Y there watching because it's made on chabas watch the go and it's okay then he talks about the whole dinner of whether was whether that was laboring any kind of ala on chabas for being there and so on is that he's not he's not doing anything he's not telling the anything he's just watching to make sure the go is doing it right and putting in the correct ingredients this is brought down same Even the >> kitchen. So um they all everybody says the same thing about the chabas. There's no way around chabas cuz or else the milk will go bad and the people didn't have so nowadays we have seam chas we have two such plants where where they work on chabas as well come sleep there and eat there it's so and uh yeah we use this guy >> yeah that's that's how eat it. It's not it's not. So that's one of the talks when he talks about one of the he gives when he says he allowed watches. You're it's good only. Here's what the shop says on on this that that the he was watching. Even if you own the renet then >> that's a separate deal doesn't mention it that's not brought down till the owning renet >> that's a great doing it for you if you >> oh that's the it's not so the sak is that it's not doing anything for you he's doing it for himself he wants to have kosher sellable cheese he wants to sell it to Eden he wants Eden to buy it so he's got to do it according to the kosher rules Another uh terance that that gives but it could be talking only according to that says that is watching it's good is only according to that hold it's good anyway we that don't hold from that was only in that province with the vice in that province They had enough of the idea and they knew that no one ever made with trace ingredients and they didn't take on ex then he gives another morsel another way the sha brings I'm just talking about a little bit of the that bought the the of cheese before chabas before he bought all the cheese so many pounds of cheese that you're going to make so much and so much so to he owns it already. So then he's allowed to use it also. Now he wants to make sure quality control. He wants to make sure that it's you know being done properly and the Kashmir. So he stood there to watch. Then the the the brings to his of says clearly watch the that expression is not there by so we see that of of doesn't soil. Uh we again we we go according to the sh not we don't go with with uh >> yeah we go with I mean I'm sorry and uh and uh we use the shaft whenever I mean we go to the shaft whenever we can now the next step in the process to know about is the way way W H E Y is the leftover liquid. You have a big vessel full of milk. You put it in the coagulation bottle and it starts it takes half an hour, an hour and the curd separate and the liquid is left. Then you have to drain it and you have the cheese and you have what's left over is liquid. It's a whey. Whey has milk proteins. It has milk sugar. It has some valuable things in it. Whereas 30, 40 years ago, most of the way in the United States was given to farmers to feed their cattle. Didn't get the people's stomachs. It wasn't made for people. But now they found ways to to sell it and it became a big big item and it's a sellable item and so on. Now the the the the way does not have the restriction of Venus the whether it's a sha whether it's whatever it is that whole din is the restriction on the green how to make it green way doesn't have such a restriction weighs kosher even if the queen has green it's a little sounds a little extreme but it's a fact u we can we certify many many many plants where the greener is green there's no mosqu there we go in to check ingredients from time to time like we would in any other facility but but and uh the way it doesn't have a doesn't have the d of the way is >> kosher look I'm not talking about that because That's a tough subject. Could be. No. Just going to say could be because I think it's when and it was when it was when it was contracted in a way that it's going into cheese. The whole falls off brought down in the first do >> what are the companies that the capture companies actually do? What >> does it have to be hold of this? >> Depends what the customer wants. Depends what No, >> you're not going to write. >> No, of course not. But there is such a there is such a gang that you could say that all ways don't have to be because it was from milk that was the local the same of applies also for the way >> start again >> the sameash of applies also for the way it's the same >> no that's why I Say we go in and check the ingredients. Make sure all the ingredients are kosher. >> Whatever. It's not. >> Yeah. So, so all the renet was kosher. Whatever flavorings they use, everything was kosher. The shi work on the cheese or not work whether with his eyes or with his hand. But if he didn't even if everything is kosher ingredients, the way is still kosher. >> Why? >> Why not? Because the says even still a problem because >> that's the cheese not the way. Oh, now we're going to get involved in something else. They're all in one taras. They're all in one pot. Now most of the time cheeses are made in America below yatza leas never doesn't go above yata. So even though you had penis akam together with whey in one big pot when you strained it and separated it was a it was a cold item. It's completely separated. There's no cheese left in the whey. The way is caution. >> There's heat used in the process. We >> get to that. >> There is some heat used but it's usually kept below. >> When it's >> what >> when it's still they don't pasteurize it. >> That's when it's before the ingredients are put in. like for the ingredients. >> Four ingredients for >> I remember >> cuz they cool it down. They heat it up and I know >> they cool it down. Yeah, of course. But that's that's not the cheese. Cheese making is in a vat. The the milk comes in, it's already pasteurized and cooled down. Milk comes in, they put in renet, put in flavors, cultures, and this and becomes cheese. And then the cheese, you separate the cheese from the way. Now you have a way to deal with the way. Um like I said doesn't have the the the cheese in so it's uh good if all the ingredients are ko. So the the what happens >> saying why would I think what he's asking is why would we part of the whole product why is not considered part of of >> because the zeta was only made on cheese. It wasn't me on >> was there early discussion about way or there was never discussed >> on this front? No. So it's basically there's no thing of will never grazer ex >> there's no discussion. So we can't say something which is bad. I mean what you want to use don't use it but I mean lupel the the way what happens there are certain cheeses that in the gibon in the when they're making the cheese it does get above the Swiss cheese provolone some mozzarella some some cheeses do get above they get above 120 125 they get above papia leathers There was uh there's a on that there's a between and a while back but it was held the way still say why didn't agree with that and she said it's in a chuba that the basic reason is co's man The way is together with the curds in one ber whether it's at 100° or 130° it's not cheese doesn't have a dinner of vinas saka doesn't have a shame of vinaka it's a prevention so therefore it doesn't become cheese until after you drained away by then it has cooled down already so there's no bleers from from gusakum there's a ble from curds but they're not green until they don't get ashamed of gakum into didn't agree with that and that's why uh >> why you don't agree with that >> he he felt that it it's up at 125 130 and it's cooking together it's cooking together it has >> a bish thought of that but what what is up cheese in general part of the cooking. It's part of the process of separation. This is a cheesem. I never heard of that. But uh >> it's not also um so this is translated into a fact. Do we certify those ways or not? We at the okay we used to certify those ways even at 130 based information our best competitor was Tom they were very insistent on not certifying waves over 120 where the where the process was at 120 or higher. Several years ago, many years ago, a whole a whole conference, a meeting was called about this subject and uh they were very strong on it and appeal everybody agreed business-wise. We're not going to certify any ways that are above 120. So, we don't no one does anymore. Even though there is no do that listen to fine kosher sauce. >> No, these are no these are not things. Anyway, >> what is the way what is way used for get? Um, so uh this way we don't accept we won't certify it as kosher if it's made over 120°. The next question is what's the either the kumin that we use to make this cheese and way does the go that all the kin have to be cautious before you do a kosher run or not uh we had that uh same and that we never agreed upon there was never an agreement not that we had to kale afterwards agreement was okay we're not going to certify not going to certify does not mean you have to cash. So uh we don't cure him after such a way. I'm not talking to I'm talking all in non um we don't in such such such a case too fine we uh another interesting anecdote >> so in this prou is more more m >> okay cuz harsh is still alive and he's he's their man and that's that's what my rabbi said, "Okay, shouldn't they? We're not knocking it, but we just so they did PO that all the other organizations shouldn't shouldn't give a hy, which was a money thing cuz if they didn't want to give a we would give it that we get the business. They don't they that's a business thing. It's not a conscious thing. >> This doesn't really apply to us. >> They're not talking about that. Shell is a different subject. Um, lapel we have uh we had a company that was drying the whey into a powder. Dried whey or is used in bakeries as a milk substitute. It's cheaper and it's used as milk and um they they they make whey powder. We did not cauter after if the dryer draw dried for a day or two away from those hotter temperatures. We didn't cure afterwards. So, we did have an end incident. Maybe you can shut the thing for a minute. Okay. Now, there's another type of way that's problematic and that is for mozzarella. Mozzarella itself, the cheese is made at a low temperature. So, the way is kosher. But then they take the mozzarella and they cook it in a special machine that cooks it and it swirls around and makes it malible that it can stretch. It's good for pizzas. Mozzarella has cooker a cooker water. That cooker water is cooked in water and a big tub full of water hot water which is way 160 170° that that cooker water is trace cuz it's clean. There was no ye making the mozzarella. The cooker water was uh hot because it cooked. So the water's straight. What do you do with the cooker water? Most of the municipalities, most of the cities won't let them dump it because it has milk fat, milk protein that goes through the water system. It's too much liquid. So, if they have a problem, what they do? So, some of them take that cooker water and just put it back into with the rest of the way. There's a million pounds of weight and a couple hundred thousand pounds of this cooker water gets mixed up. It's all the same thing more or less. It gets mixed into the weight. So, we don't >> It's like a water down weight. >> Yeah. A drop. A drop. But it's it the there's fat there. There's there's cream there. There's other good things in the cocoa water that that leeched out from the cheese. So they uh it's a problem. We don't certify those plants at all because uh they have some tapers. Now even though it's bubble, there's much less cooker water, much less much less in we don't certify him if there has any tapers. Uh, what some of them do, two different here, but some of them only save the cream off of the cocoa water and they keep that separate and a whole system how to hold it and watch it and mosquito and watch it. And that sent the tray for customers that it's milk fat, it's cream. Um, and we have another people that keep it and they have kosher and have non- kosher and have mashing watching it and they can only empty the tanks when opens the tanks for them and so on. that system in place but lapel that causes another headache cuz that is mish water that's nibler from penis aum and it's very and all the mozzarella plants have it and you have to cover it in all the plants or else you can't use the way in any in any way you can't use that way because of the issues that are come up into into now the the what is the way used for wayey can be used in in in bakery for what? >> It gives a a mouth feel to the cake or the cookie or whatever it is and it also gives milk and it gives sugar has sugar in it. There's another step what they do with whey which is they take the whey and put it through a UF. for UF is ultra filtrator special filtration system that physically separates the protein from what we call a permeate which is the lactose and sugar physically separates. You got two streams coming off of this machine. The proteins are used in health foods. All the health foods you I don't know if you've seen the health foods WPI, WPC, it has whey protein and whey protein isolate and different kinds of proteins that have been isolated from pro because they're very healthy and all that is done after the weight. So if it's a cushion away we can deal with it. It's not a cultural way of retain nothing we can do and that so are are so the ways being used it's even local bakeries or that's just big big companies big >> big companies craft Nestle >> so it's not something for people that haven't >> we go into bakery like >> regular bakeries in >> special quality >> they don't they don't use no unless they're the cheese Right. >> No, I don't think so. The the way is that the lactose is the issue. Lactose is the sugar when you UF the way you get protein and lactose. Lactose is used in in pills. It's used in homeopathic pills. That becomes we get a lot of questions about that homeopathic pills that you put under your tongue for whatever reason. A lot of them have lactose. lactose is milk from non the best case. There's no one that makes lactose protein. It's not enough around in the world. There's no one that makes that. So, so even though you have all the kosher, there's no one. Not only that, when they make holo cheese, whichever company it is, they go in for a few hours a day. They none of the way gets processed as kosh. All it goes into the regular stream. Now it goes to the regular non the non regular waist stream and you do whatever you want with it. It now became not a dinner but now became a new fat. Now they're taking protein out of milk, not only out of whey. before it goes into the cheese process can go through these same type of filters and you take milk and they get milk and lactose milk protein is supposed to be also for the health food people supposed to be very healthy that's okay any other questions >> all these things will say that they're dairy >> huh >> all these things will say that uh it's it's dairy right >> of course they're dairy >> you can see in the ingredients it will say wa they will way protein here. If it's there, it looks it should say >> which is >> I can't hear you. >> Which types of cheese is of >> all hard cheeses, whatever you buy the hard cheeses, the squares or whatever they are. >> All the soft cottage cheese, cream cheese. >> Oh, that's different. That's cottage cheese, cream cheese. But me holds is not. We don't put renin in them. They they usually get uh they become from the loft there. There's germs or yeasts in the in the lof that that makes them into uh we do put other ingredients in and we wash them. But cottage cheese says it doesn't need a mash. Um sour cream for sure not yogurt nut also. So you're saying that the would only be there for the for the for the >> that's a different thing needs to have a mash because you want to make sure it didn't mix with >> right >> it's a different thing separate separate kaim separate seals separate everything >> but the next step in the process we're making into yogurt or cream cheese you don't need to have someone there to constantly >> everything has always the whole process >> even when it's been made into k Yep. >> No, >> all the >> He's saying those that are relying are relying on the M shift and that >> that's all the non >> break stones and all these companies big big big companies >> but it doesn't come into the prim. So therefore you >> well that's a separate >> you can rely on >> it's a separate it's a different dinner it's not the dinner of public the cottage cheese he has a tub cottage cheese doesn't go into the zina >> how in general how do they age the cheese >> thing aging cheese depends which ones >> when you were saying about the rena they put it in and right away starts to happen what what's happening that's the regular cheese we're having in the >> all cheeses is the same on that it starts to separate. It separates. Then you drain out the way, the liquid from the cheese. >> Okay? >> If you leave the whey in the cheese, the cheese will go bad because bacteria comes to water. You got to get the water out of the cheese. Dry it. But to dry the cheese, they drain it. Then they press it together and press more way out of it. And then then, excuse me, the cheese it goes and gets packaged up or whatever it is. There are certain cheeses that have to age. They get into their taste profile. Like they make big wheels of them some of them and they leave them out could be for sometimes for a few months. And what happens is the outside becomes hard from the oxygen from the air. Inside the enzymes are still somehow working inside the loaf of cheese and it makes a different taste. >> Just sits outside. Yes. >> Yeah. Sometimes it's in a warm room 50 60°. Sometimes it's in the fridge, sometimes it's in plastic, sometimes it's not in plastic. >> Raw. >> How about the soft cheese that we have here? The regular American cheese. How is that made? >> American cheese is fake. >> It's what what is that? American cheese, they take bits and and and pieces, scraps of leftover cheeses that were cut off or whatever. They cook it up, put in butter, put in cream, put in other things, and they put it on a machine that spreads it and makes it into a thin thin thin layer hot. Cook it hot and then they cut it into this layer, >> make it look like it's cheese. >> It's called American cheese. It's it's a fake cheese. It's a from craft from 50 years ago to make a cheaper cheese for families that couldn't afford expensive cheeses. >> Mhm. >> Is it from hot cheese? Leftovers hot cheese. >> But it's leftovers that couldn't be used for anything. >> But not from a not from a cheese. It's just from regular. >> It's used leftovers to everything in in American production. It's used one way or another. They use it. They save it. They use it in one way or another. American cheese was a way of saving money from cheese which saves its money from milk. >> It's like hot dogs from >> hot dogs became a >> So what's and what's not American cheese? Like if it says on cheddar >> cheddar and those things. So those are not American. >> It has to say on a word. If it says the word American, that's the way that's how you describe it. >> American means the it's a remake cheese. >> How do you know it's a remake? You know if it says American. >> You can tell things. >> You can tell it tastes like American. It should say something on it. No, legally it must probably has to be it does American slices or whatever. >> So let's say a cheddar cheese, a soft another soft cheese. How long is that aged for? That's age bal or it's just right away. >> It's probably packaged right away. But until it gets to you might take a month or two from the distributor to the store to you. >> But but it's in plastic. So there's all kinds of chubasim about that. Whether aging keeps on growing in plastic or doesn't the plastic stop it because it's not in the air. >> Always make a difference. What do you >> have to wait 6 hours? >> Oh, while it's Parmesan cheese is the only one that's officially >> that that one's always aged. It's aged and it gets hard and then they >> What's the amount of time it makes you have to wait 6 hours? >> 6 months. >> So parmesan is always a 6 months. >> Yeah, it's probably more than that. The thing is you have to understand it's also a financial thing. The farmer has cows giving out milk today. He gets paid by the cheese company. Whatever the deal is quickly, 10 days, 5 days, he gets paid. The cheese company wants to sell the cheese. Now, if they got to go put it in the fridge or in the warming room for 6 months, they have to have a big bank because they have a lot of things that they hold a lot of. I mean after it starts turning it's a different business and then you know that stuff okay fine but uh till then the cheese is uh >> is there a way of fasttracking the aging process >> probably nowadays in America they have cultures that'll change the acidity in the milk before they put the renin in that once you put the renin in it'll make it taste like it was ate for a month or two or three or five there is such things >> so we have to wait six hours for This cheesec >> it's not hard. I don't see being the the H cheese is very hard. >> I don't know if the six has to do with the hardness or has to do with the strongness of the taste. >> Well, that's a discussion there. The vinasha >> orifus. >> Yeah. But he's saying nowadays they can make things that are only a month old taste like they're six months old. Yes. How they do it exactly, I don't know. But they have different cultures that they use from >> you. You also dealt with how we sell like milk. >> Sure. >> Deal with it. But it's separate completely. >> What do we make on dairy equipment? >> Dairy equipment. >> Again, >> dairy equipment just equipment. Is there reason to be more make some tast not not >> some believe from maybe I don't know. There's some pass agencies that first went after and they took away the DE. >> Who else? >> Oh, you I heard change of policy that they're making less DE and they're changing it to D. Okay. >> Mhm. >> I didn't hear them making >> Yeah. And some products they say it says either OD, whatever, OPD, but it doesn't have dairy in the ingredients. >> Okay. What is it originally? >> That could be it's made on a on hot dairy equipment. Could it same spray dried on the oven or whatever it is and it's hot or it could be that there's no good cleanup in between. We had that with the we had some para chocolate chips chips that were parv. Then when they repack it into one pound or two pound packages for the housewife pack on the same cold on the same line as uh as other chips that weren't uh that weren't part of the company itself decided to put a D on everything they didn't want someone might get sick and maybe there's a million allergen so that they they made they themselves put it we didn't require the >> is such thing as opposite where it says arian equipment in the ingredients, but it's not it's not okay. >> How could that be? It's a mistake one way or the other. Either happens mistakes happen in this world. I don't know if you know that or not. Mistakes happen either in the labeling or or or in mashko sometimes to make a mistake. Anything is possible. I don't know what to answer on that. You know, it is what it is. Amongst the companies of the national is amongst the companies who um who hire the services of the different national conscious agencies is there much of a difference in terms of what they pick is it mitsu you okay in terms of a lot of the st a lot of the standards in cautious are are >> let's say they're more or less the same but there's a little wave of difference in that in that wave >> right but in ter so right so as a consumer someone who's a Beside the companies are they are they thinking are they conscientious of these noncabinas or for them it's whoever can guarantee >> they have they have sales department and they have people studying things and advertising and figuring out well sell the more more product for the more profit. Does it happen to be more towards like who has access and whoever who'sever convenient for them to pick or do they actually think of in terms of markets like does OU reach markets OUK doesn't okay doesn't and that's why they might pick or is it that OU happens to have Mashkim are available to you know and okay doesn't >> that doesn't happen either >> like what what's the big what are some of the reasons why a company might choose one national conscious agency over a different one >> word of mouth >> probably is the biggest who who the who their friends at the company next door is dealing with and they had a good experience with this guy or or or not such a good experience word of mouth >> in terms of the conscious agencies themselves like what what what's I mean let's say what really is the like between and okay and and is is is is each one is in the existence of of these different I'm talking about just in America obviously but in these different companies of different countries Philipses are they uh are are