Charity

Let's say I spent a hundred thousand dollars in schooling. Is the first hundred thousand that I earn maaserable or not? Because I could only earn that hundred thousand dollars because I spent a hundred thousand to get that degree in order to make myself Let's say I take a student loan. That's not maaser. You don't take maaser off a student loan. No, it's a loan. It's not income. That's not income. So you get a student loan for a hundred thousand dollars and you spend it on your business or getting the job or to keep it simple, let's say for a degree. So now I have to pay back student loan debt for the first whatever amount of years till I pay it off. So that should come off the top, I think. I have I've never I haven't clarified this with the the big rabbis. Oh. But uh I'm assuming that could come off the top because you can only you only were able to earn that salary because you're because of your schooling. Okay, so welcome to the Middle Class podcast. Today's guest, a very special guest, Reb Tzvi Yaakovstein shlita. I consider the Rav um I've given him the name the Texter Rebbe. Is that my Is it my the only one? >> No, I get all the WhatsApp Rebbe, the WhatsApp's not Rebbe, WhatsApp Rabbi, the texting Rabbi, yes. That makes sense. The WhatsApp Rabbi and the Texter Rebbe. Texting is more firm than WhatsApp, so So >> Either way, it's it's embarrassing. So I'm not embarrassed. Whatever. It's like oh you're the texting Rabbi? That's that's what you do. Okay. All right. Okay, listen, you take it in good good stride. All right, so we have a lot to discuss today and again I appreciate you coming on the podcast. It's it means a lot to me and I think a lot of our listeners will benefit tremendously. Um and the main focus that we're going to discuss are let's say I wouldn't just say the halachas of maaser, tzedakah, charity but also maybe some of the customs what people do, what people shouldn't do what they should do. Um and I have in front of me I'll just uh say this uh first. I have in front of me a PDF from Rabbi Stein that goes through in short, brief, easy to understand uh language how to give maaser. >> ADHD. Like it's it's for ADHD from an ADHD Rabbi. But okay, there you That's that's the For the Middle Class ADHD clientele. Yes. >> Takes one to No one, yeah. Okay, so the ADHD Rebbe. There you go. Another name. >> Another Um yeah, so I have this in front of me as a reference and I'm going to If anyone wants to private message after the um podcast, they can uh request the PDF. It's great to look at. I went through it a couple of times and we're going to discuss based off this as a reference. So I'll start like this. I have in front of me I'm a financial planner and I work with people's budgets. And I have in front of me a budget sheet as well. That's also something if you private message you can get access to. But I have here a whole list of expenses. And I'll tell you I'll start from the back end. I have clients, people who I meet with that are in credit card debt. Um they're or they're tight month to month. Yet I look at the charity section and again I tread the line with this. I don't want to I tow the line and I tread water. I don't want to uh God forbid say that tzedakah is a bad thing. God forbid. But I also know that people need to have their feet on the ground and the Rav will of course explain that. But I do see people with credit card debt yet they give for example five hundred dollars a month to tzedakah, to maaser. And they're not paying the debt. They don't pay full tuition. And again, it comes from a good place. But let's start with that. If someone's in credit card debt do they have an obligation uh to give maaser? Absolutely not. No no obligation whatsoever. Um you have Everybody has a requirement to give tzedakah. Even the most poor of a person has to give tzedakah. Basically that amounts to five dollars a year. Five dollars a year is the minimum requirement that everybody, even somebody who lives off tzedakah could uh has to give that. After that, maaser is there's a few opinions. We pasken that maaser is a minig. Uh-huh. >> So it's not Some say it's a deraisa, some say derabanan and some say it's a minig. We pasken very clearly according to pretty much everybody that we say that it is a minig. So that's a custom. If you can't keep the custom, so then you don't you don't keep the custom. I mean it's not like it's a you know, if you're if you're in debt, you still have to go to shul even though going to shul is probably derabanan. You still have to go to shul. Obligation. >> Right, it's an obligation derabanan but it's an obligation. Maaser is not an obligation. But what throws people off is all the uh gemaras, Shulchan Aruch. Shulchan Aruch is actually fascinating. Goes through so many different different uh sources that how what tzedakah does for you. So that's what I think throws people off. They especially they're in debt, so they how am I going to get out of debt? Well, that's your department but it's uh it's not easy to get out of debt, right? So they think okay, so I'll do every segulah in the book, which is to give tzedakah. Mhm. Which is misguided because you should not come on to other people to give you to give you money. So we have the credit cards. I mean if they didn't have credit cards, what would they do? I'm assuming they'd borrow personally. >> Right. So that's clear in halacha that you cannot if you borrow money and you owe somebody personally money, then you don't take maaser. How would you go to Why are you going to take maaser Mhm. if you owe people money? So instead we have these credit cards which are very easy, right? You just apply for it, they give it to you. They're very happy to charge you twenty-five percent. And it's going to snowball and it's going to make you into a worse deficit and eventually you're going to have to come on to private people's uh finances, right? So therefore if you have a credit card debt, you should not be giving should not be giving maaser. I can expound on it or you want to ask a different question? I mean I can I can talk from now for a half hour straight on this. >> I know. I I that's that's it all ties together. That's what makes it a little bit um but let let's try to Yeah, that was perfect. You to the question. Um >> Okay, I'll tell you so I'll tell you something that comes up a lot. So you you mentioned tuition deductions. Yeah. So I know from I from Rav Pam zechuto livracha Rav Feivel Cohen, from the gedolei rabbonim and uh roshei yeshivas, all they all say that if somebody takes a tuition deduction and people don't like to hear this. If you take a tuition deduction, you cannot give tzedakah other than to the yeshiva that you're taking the tuition deduction from. That's what they I mean that's That yeshivas should know that. They don't seem to utilize this. Now, then when you tell this to people they say well, the yeshiva's charging so much tuition in order to compensate for the ones that are not paying tuition. That is a big debate amongst the executive directors of yeshiva. I'm not getting involved in that. I don't know the answer to that. Probably that's not the case. We need to ask Rav Kaplan who we had as a guest. Oh, there you go. Okay, so you you get him back on. But it doesn't make a difference. If you're taking tuition deduction, it means somebody is going to collect money on your behalf. So how can you go give tzedakah to some to a different organization? Basically what you're doing is you're taking your tzedakah and you're pushing it on to somebody else to collect tzedakah for you so that you can go give tzedakah. I would say again I know there's a lot but I would say I don't know, maybe seventy to eighty percent of the middle class people that I work with aren't paying full tuition. Correct. And yet even the ones that aren't in debt, they're giving hundreds of dollars to maaser. And again, one of the specifics maybe we'll discuss also is what is eligible for you know, maaser cuz they're already paying a shul membership. They're already paying uh you know, kupat hayir. Without maaser. >> Right, correct. Right. So that's the thing. If they if the school says to you that you have to pay seven thousand dollars tuition and really the full tuition is fifteen. Anything you give over seven can come from maaser. It can't come from maaser. >> And yes, because it's voluntary. The basic rule with maaser and I know we're going to fly all over the place here but the basic rule with maaser is what you're required to do, you can't take from maaser. What you're not required to do, it's optional mitzvah, then you can take from maaser. Even though that's really not The ultimate is maaser should go to poor people, not towards donating like this morning I started paying attention to the maaser shailos. I actually remember a few from the just from this morning. >> This morning? >> Yes, a shul breakfast on on a holiday, if you know, the guy wants to he wants to sponsor the shul breakfast. So the answer is will there be inspiration? Yes, there will. Or a shiur. So then that means it's a a mitzvah. But really that's b'dieved. Really it should be going maaser should only be going to the poor. Mhm. Mhm. So Mhm. But we we pasken that you can give it towards a mitzvah, too. Mhm. And therefore and either way, paying a yeshiva is like giving money to the poor cuz everybody was wealthy, the yeshiva wouldn't have to collect money and everybody right. So basically that's essentially like giving to the poor. But since you're not required to give it so then so then you can take maaser money. So should you take your maaser money and give it to kupat hayir or should you give it to your yeshiva who's giving you a tuition deduction? You should be giving it to the yeshiva. That being said, does that mean you can't give two dollars here, three dollars there, five dollars there? You can. You can. That We're talking about like I don't know what you call them, how you define major money. I yesterday yes last night somebody somebody asked me, he's collecting money from tzedakah. He's got family situation, whatever it is, therapies and this and that. And he's giving he said he's giving $3.50 a day tsadaka. Which in the overall scheme of things but it's 100 but he's collecting tsadaka money. So he said his therapist asked told said to ask should he be giving that money to tsadaka. Now you don't want to bust his bubble and say okay don't give but on the other hand 350 I think is a little too much a day. So basically you should you should lower you should lower down that that amount. >> I had someone who was receiving from a gemach and he asked if he should take maaser off of it. >> From the gemach. Yeah that's yes yes. People say I'm collecting money I'm making a wedding I'm getting money should I take maaser off of that. How do you go take maaser off of money that you're collecting? Give the money back to yourself. This is really coil guys. Uh-huh. >> They say I'm in a night coil or I'm in a whatever coil I am should I take off maaser? Well maybe yes but then give it back to your coil cuz you're taking tsadaka money. Uh-huh. And the biggest one is should you take off money from money that your parents are supporting you let's say in coil your parents or in-laws are giving you. Mhm. Right? So should you be taking off maaser? Mhm. So I want to I heard from a from a rav I didn't hear from directly so I won't quote his name. He said yeah take the maaser and give it to the in-laws. So that they could kick it right back to you. Right so who you who do you think you are? You're taking money to live and you're giving tsadaka on that. Why would why does that make any sort of sense? Mhm. So okay but the the practical application is that of that is that we tell them to ask the parents and in-laws do you want me taking maaser off of the money that you're giving. Some say some who usually better off say yeah I want you to give maaser off of that. Mhm. And others will say no I'm not I don't want you this is could be now meaning it's considered maasered money. Mhm. Okay. So say it's all it comes up it comes up a lot. >> So this is great. I really going straight to the meat and potatoes over here. But I'll just paraphrase a couple things we said. Firstly maaser is is a minug that's accepted upon people. >> minug. It's a strong minug. It's a strong minug but at the end of day it's a minug not you're not doing anything wrong if you can't. Really? >> Yeah. Okay so that's >> you're doing something wrong if you can afford it then you're doing something wrong. Right. But that's a very important context for the halachas. So let me get straight to the specifics. So we just finished saying that if someone gets a tuition deduction they should give if they're going to give maaser they should give it to the yeshiva. That's halacha. I'm I'm there are those that would disagree probably I haven't I haven't met them. It's halacha and and common sense. >> And logically yeah it makes but that's I would say a lot of to all the people out there that's very important to keep in context because I'll tell you why I mean it's obvious but it's important because then the yeshivas will have more available. I I mean that's there's a priority in giving tsadaka. Wow. Okay so let's let me jump to something that comes up cuz I know it's on your sheet also. There's a bullet point here that says one who's not making one who's not making ends meet and this can require clarification with the rav and or financial advisor as far as being exempt from maaser. So can you go into that a little bit? Someone who's not making ends meet. Okay so this is a very gray area cuz especially with the middle class are you making ends meet or you're not making ends meet? Can you explain that a little bit? >> Okay so making so the first obvious is is there credit card debt? So if there's credit card debt then I think we could all agree that that's not called making ends meet. Mhm. Oh wow. Now I mean I don't I you you you're you're the financial guru so I'm saying you to you I I agree with you but people don't listen to me. Right. So I'll tell you I'll tell you I'll tell you where it the way it manifests itself is in halacha somebody's considered poor if they don't have enough money to live for the year. If you go look in Shulchan Aruch you need right? What's the amount 200 zuzz? If you don't have enough money to live for the year then you are you can accept tsadaka. Right? That means even if you have 199 you're allowed accept another 200 meaning that you don't just get to the 200 just interesting halacha. Meaning if you have you don't you don't just get you can take tsadaka even more than 200 if you're under the 200 line. Right? Interesting. >> But once you have 200 that means you have enough to live you know for the let's call it for the year. For the year. Now who has that money nowadays to live I'm from the middle class you have enough to live for the year whatever let's let's say it it costs five five children family five child family 200,000 300,000 whatever the numbers are. Who has that sitting in their bank nobody. No. Right? I mean I don't nobody most middle class I'm assuming don't. So now are they considered poor? So they're not considered poor because that's not the way the the financial system in America works. We work based on salaries if somebody has a job seemingly he knows the income's coming in then he is fine. Now you're going to say okay so what about debt? So debt is also part of the American society right? Mortgage somebody who has a mortgage and a lease is that called in debt? That's not called debt. That's the way we roll. Right. Right? But credit card debt Uh-huh. at least from my perspective is that's extra debt that you're not supposed to be carrying. That's right. And it's 25 30% we know that the Torah the reason why the Torah says ribbis is not allowed is because it snowballs and it creeps up on you and before you turn around and then your debt has quadrupled and then you really can't get out. Although the American system of claiming bankruptcy and just telling the credit card that you'll pay pennies on the dollar that's that could be helpful. No you cannot do that you know you can't run up the credit card debt and then say I'm just not going to pay it. >> Oh boy. But that's a That happened? Is that People have asked that sure sure people have asked that. Okay. In the financial crisis people asking can we just take out credit cards and uh That's not halacha. >> No no you cannot do that. You cannot do that. But that being said if you are in debt and you can't get out then you can take you can take advantage of the system not I don't want to take it meaning if that's the system you go bankrupt. Companies do it all the time right? Companies that are publicly traded go bankrupt that's part of business. But that's only if you got yourself into that situation. So the point is is that debt is part of the every business has debt. Right? So that's that's that's normal but abnormal debt means you're not making ends meet. Mhm. Now as it pertains to maaser is it actually less we can Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Yomi. So you know people don't want to learn Kitzur Shulchan Aruch they we don't pasken like Kitzur Shulchan Aruch. So therefore they don't learn Kitzur Shulchan Aruch. So so what are you learning instead? Well nothing. So I you know what if you go up to if you go up to the next world and you say you pasken like Kitzur Shulchan Aruch they're not going to do anything to you. At least I'm assuming they're not going to do anything. So one of the major leniencies that the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch says is that maaser money I think I bring it in there. I think so. Yeah. Maaser money gets calculated after all expenses are paid. If you whatever you have left you take 10% off of that. Not off of income before before expenses. So after all expenses so yeah. >> Meaning meaning let's yeah so you paid for your car and your insurance and your tuition and your food. Whether vacation is included in normal expenses I'll leave that I'll say that's up to you. I would think that it is basically society right? Obviously within within the norm. And after that if you have maaser money left over then you take 10% off of that. That's the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch's opinion. We don't pasken that way. Mhm. But the the the gedolei poskim say for somebody who's like a rebbe and or in chinuch certainly should rely on that. Going back to what we said before which is that you're taking tsadaka money so why meaning you want a raise in salary so then you have to go collect more money for you and then for you to go give maaser to somebody else why don't we just do a wash? Right? Meaning so those that are concerned like we said it's a minug for to give maaser can rely on the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch's opinion which is let's say at the end of the month you have an extra $500 so you give $50 off after after expenses and you'll be mekayem at least according to that opinion. Even though again we don't pasken that way. Normally we pasken that it's maaser gets taken off of from the top from when the income is post tax post tax although there are those say that it's pre tax. Right. But another mistake once we're on it with those that are having a trouble making ends meet with giving maaser. A lot of people are not aware that there's a lot of deductions the same way you tax deductions you have a lot of deductions that you take off initially. Like if you have to pay a babysitter then that comes off the top before you calculate maaser. Not that we're looking to to skimp on maaser. But just right? They people sometimes say you know I just found out about this and they say I've been doing this for years so now can I have a credit from maaser? That's already not so simple. Right. So let me cut you off Rabbi Stulberger because you're a Mayan Olam is Gabber. I warned you ADHD we go from one subject to the next. I was actually going to get to that but a major thing came up in the middle. And I'll tell you how I come across this cuz between me and you and everyone else out there I could not care less if you spend money on maaser or not kol hakavod if you can and you should. But this is how it comes up for me. I have someone who's coming to do a financial plan. They don't have money for their children put away for their weddings, let's say. They don't have insurance, life insurance, and disability, and sometimes long-term care when they're uh you know, down the line a little bit. Um they don't have money put away, let's say, for retirement. Now, they're okay giving their $500 a month to tzedakah even if they're not technically obligated based on everything we're saying, and maybe they're doing something potentially wrong by not giving it to the Yeshiva. But what would you say the priority is there? So, I'm the financial planner, and I'm saying to them as a financial planner that you should start putting money into your financial security, and then talk about the ma'aser. $500 a month could go a very long way in a financial plan with compound interest and investing, and especially with insurance, maybe we'll talk about that in a second, also. But that few hundred dollars a month could make a difference in someone's plan. So, what would you say specific to that question? Meaning you're So, basically you're asking should you put that money Someone who's make having a hard time making ends meet should >> No, they are They're making ends meet. >> They're making ends meet, but >> with $500 to tzedakah, but no financial plan. $500 tzedakah is their ma'aser. Is their ma'aser? >> ma'aser, but no financial plan. Right. >> So, I would think that the answer to that question is It's a tough question. Yeah, I just This is a good question. It's a good question, right? So, the I would say that what is considered the norm for America, including non-Jews in the in the equation. What is the norm? Is it considered the norm to put away that $500? If that's considered the normal thing to do, which I don't know. Is it? I'm not sure. I mean >> It should be. Whether it Whether it is or it's not, I think most don't. I think most don't. Most can't, I think. But if it would be the norm, the absolute norm, then they would then they should put it away. Mhm. If if not If it's not If it's considered abnormal, then they should give They should give ma'aser first. Mhm. >> So, I would lean towards I personally would lean towards maybe giving the ma'aser because now is now and not You're not You're not going to be happy to hear that. No, and Right now Now is now. We have to have You know, you do have to have bitachon. That's part of the whole concept of giving tzedakah. Giving tzedakah is that I'm acknowledging that my finances come from Hashem, and 10% of it goes There's a 10% automatic that shows that my money is coming from Hashem, Mhm. >> and that acknowledges it, and I'm worried about the future later. Mhm. That being said, if it's the normal thing to put away, and if you think you're going to have to come on to others, so then then you have to then you would have to So, that's a big one. >> That would be part of the discussion. Again, this is a discussion. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, people um if they don't put away money today, they will come on to others potentially. Right. So, the question is who those others are. Uh-huh. >> Meaning I I have this theory. I don't know if it's true, but I don't know I don't know if it's within the the It's all good. >> conversation. All good. >> But I believe that most Yidden from Yidden have somebody who's got some money that could help them out that they're related to. I've said that. Yeah. >> that? Okay, there you go. There we go. I think that's something And those that don't, those are the ones who who we have to Uh-huh. collect for. Meaning there's an uncle, there's an aunt, there's a grandparent. There's I mean, otherwise it would What What's going on in our society is not sustainable. But that's your That's your That's your side of the equation. >> I can't believe I I I have to shout this out because the rov was mechaven to me that um if I can say that with that I said I the way I phrased it in um ba'al habatishe terms was that there's something called Jewish economics. So, there's >> Okay. You hear? Right? Cuz Cuz they I don't know if you heard of um Adam Smith. I know I I know the name, but >> have to show show the veldt that you have some Okay. secular knowledge. But Adam Smith >> Too much. >> Too much from You went to Yeshiva Far Rockaway? >> Yes. >> Okay, there we go. Um So, yeah. So, he said there's a something called the invisible hand, how money moves around, and I said the Jewish society, for it to sustain itself, there has to be someone receiving and someone giving. Maybe it's family. Maybe it's community. I believe so. I believe so. I'm saying I I don't know. I I speak to them and they say, "You have help for the wedding?" And they say, "Yeah, I have a I have a grandmother or an aunt or uncle or cousin, and they help me out, and even if it's just a loan." Mhm. So, it's I see I feel very validated. Thank you so much. Okay. I was glad we brought you on. Um but rebbe, now So, I'll tell you the other angle to all this cuz this is what you were mentioning, and now we're going to come back to it. So, we have someone, let's say, they give tzedakah, they don't have a financial plan, but they're taking it off of their gross gross income. So, they make $500,000 in sales, automatically uh even though he has to pay for the cost of the goods and and and and employees and and software and bookkeeping and that That's why I pay $50,000 a year 10% of 500,000. Is that And again, if they can do that, I guess it's good, but do they have to? No, they do not have to. No, that's not That's not called income. >> How can you call that income? It costs It cost you money to earn that money. >> Mhm. Right? If you're If you have to pay shipping, and you have to pay accountants, and what Whoever Whoever Whatever, that's not income. Mhm. So, there's no I There's I don't even I don't believe that there's even a chumer to do that. However, it can go under like the Gra was of the opinion that you're supposed to take off 20%, not 10%. He held that that was the Uh-huh. halacha. Now, the halacha says we don't pasquin that way. We say 10%, but 20% is good. Mhm. But this is an important point, also. More than 20, halacha is very clear you are not allowed to give. You are not allowed to give more than 20% unless you're very, very wealthy. Mhm. Because you might give more than 20%, you might have to come on to others. So, you see that the halacha Uh-huh. >> takes into account Don't overdo it. Even though, right? See, that's It's a balance. It's a balance. You have to know like how much when how Where do you draw the line between bitachon and practicality, I guess, even though that might sound like apikorsus a little bit because they're really tied together. But uh No, that's why we need a rov. Yeah. So, that's But you uh So, you can't give too much. So, if that would cross over into the 20% >> Wow. >> category, then that would absolutely be wrong to do that. So, if someone So, just to reiterate that. So, if someone If someone is giving ma'aser from an area that they don't have to, potentially it could bridge over the 20%. >> Right, and that would >> And then they're in an area that's problematic. >> Correct. >> Wow. >> Correct. So, let's go back to our gross income scenario. What are the specific And I have the reference here, but let's do them at least verbally. What is What are the deductions that someone can take before they take off the 10%? From gross income. >> Anything that goes directly to earning that money. Directly. >> off It comes off the top from the gross. So, that would be if you see the vague areas One of the vague areas of the I mean, the basic areas I think we can figure out. Rent, But people don't know basics, so >> Okay. Okay. So, we'll start We'll start with the basics. So, let's say paying for a secretary, right? Paying for whatever Whatever employees that you need to pay for, that comes off the top. Mhm. Um rent, insurance, heat electric, anything that you need >> If for the business or for the personal house? For the business. For the business. This is all for the business. >> the Now, we're against vague is when you have a home business. So, we're not the IRS. So, we're not going to make This is tzedakah, so we do want to give tzedakah. That's the ultimate goal. So, we don't have to make We don't have to We don't have to make it tzedakah. Giving money for taxes is not tzedakah. It's a tzedakah thing. >> The truth is, it probably is a form of tzedakah, right? How much How much How much money The biggest supporter of Torah in the history of the world was probably the United States government, I'm assuming. The Israeli government is not Well, they're getting it from the United States government. Okay, but that's a whole different The United States government certainly has a hand in the Israeli government's tzedakah, but it's certainly the United States government is definitely up there. And also this They're giving tzedakah to non-Jews, too, which is is allowed in order to make a kiddush Hashem, etc. Mhm. So, you can you can maybe spin it that way. But uh But again, without without skimping, but let's say somebody has to buy a suit. A suit. >> Suit. Let's say he has to buy a suit. He's only buying the suit because he has a he has a business meeting or whatever he has to have to have a nice suit. But he will wear that suit to a wedding. Or Shabbos, whether that's correct thing to do or not, but he will. So, now the question is can he take that suit off the top? So, he has to be intellectually honest with himself and say, "Well, had I not bought this suit >> Mhm. It's only for business, and I can take that off the top, also." Cars Cars is very common. You need a car. But the car If the only reason you bought the car is because of the business Had If you wouldn't have the business, you would not have bought that car, then you could take the car off even though you will use the car for yourself. Mhm. Mhm. >> But since the main point that you had the car, so then I can come off. Mhm. Then you can come off the top. Mhm. Um So, the basic >> again, the basic rule. Maybe you say the basic rule again that that um anything that you needed to earn the money to spend, let's say, to earn the money is not included in in the calculation. >> Correct. It comes off the top. >> So, I have here written down Again, we'll just go through that one more time. I have written what you wrote down. Income taxes, real estate taxes on the business, employee tax, which I I is like workers' compensation and things like that, right? Like that insurance on the business and merchandise, okay, salaries to employees and then travel costs like gas, tolls, I guess hotel stays for business. Yeah. All that. Travel airplane tickets for business are okay. That's even if you end up staying an extra day because you want to take a day off. Even so, you would be able to Now that next that extra night hotel stay maybe not. This is very thing cuz it's very similar to tax law. Right it is. It is. Yeah. Interesting cuz that's not a deductible expense. Um okay. And then there's one more thing here I wanted to stress. >> Also one question that comes up. Yeah, go ahead. What if I the my let's say I spent a hundred thousand dollars in schooling in order to get my accountant job, let's say. So now is the first hundred thousand that I earn ma'aserable or not? Because I could only earn that hundred thousand dollars because I spent a hundred thousand to get that degree in order to make myself Well again, the loan, let's say I take a student loan. That's not ma'aser. You don't take ma'aser off a student loan. What do you mean ma'aser from No, it's a loan. That's not income. That's not income. So you get a student loan for a hundred thousand dollars and you spend it on your business or getting the job or Well let's let's yeah, to keep it simple, let's say for a degree. So now I have to pay back student loan debt for the first whatever amount of years till I pay it off. So that should come off the top, I think. I have I've never I haven't clarified this with the the big rabbis. Right? But I'm assuming that could come off the top because you can only you only were able to earn that salary because you're because of your schooling. That's what I would assume. I'm not going to say that definitively. But um it's maybe it's a different different calculation because like we said, schooling is a normal thing to do in America. So maybe that's considered standard debt as opposed to Well, I can say from my end standard that just again, reiterate that if someone is paying back student loans technically that might come off the top because that was needed for them to get They wouldn't get they wouldn't have their job. They wouldn't have their income without the student loan. doctors, PAs social workers, mostly medical field people that have two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a lot in a lot of most of those people the middle class because they went to college as opposed to buying nursing homes and whatever. Well, we're going to get to nurse I told you we're going to speak about nursing homes. Oh boy, we're going to get to nursing homes. Um yeah, the the the the few the few and the the what's the the slogan? The proud the few the proud. The few the proud that are in the medical field that have two hundred and fifty thousand dollars of debt and they're paying it and again, I don't know if that's normal and but it's a lot of times higher interest. They can take that potentially ask your local orthodox >> believe so but I would say to ask ask you a question. LOR I don't like to personally pasken anything on my own unless I've seen it from a source. Oh wow. That's my own uh either either I'm it's a cop out which I don't whichever way it is. It takes Well, imagine how many people would be texting you if people if you say your own thing, people would be texting you. >> Yeah. Well, okay well it's either good or bad but uh so I haven't confirmed it with anybody. At least as far as I remember, I haven't confirmed it but that's what I would that's what I would think. Yeah. That's a big one. Yeah. And and one bullet point here, babysitting. So let's talk about that because you see you wrote a qualification that if work is the only reason why you have a babysitter and also on that same note, cleaning help. So this is you these are huge expenses. I can say the average person in the from community spends four hundred to seven hundred dollars a week on cleaning help. So that's twenty maybe twenty-eight hundred dollars a month on cleaning help. Babysitting is also um I guess daycare would be considered babysitting. So what about those? Okay, so those So it depends why I actually had somebody that just asked me this this week also. They have a cleaning help but because the wife, I think that was the scenario. Either way. Um the wife just expanded her work hours. So now they need that cleaning help for another let's say it was they had the cleaning up for four hours a day, now they're going to up it to six hours and the only reason why they're upping it to six hours is because the wife just got a job. If she wouldn't have the job, they would not have that cleaning up for the extra two hours a day. So therefore that comes off the top meaning she wouldn't take that job Got it. unless she had that extra two hours. So if the only reason that you would have um babysitting or cleaning help etc. is because of your job then you could take it off then you could take it off the top. So cleaning help, let's say someone very technical someone who has meaning they would they because they work, they can't clean the house, therefore they hire cleaning help. That's considered >> That's for sure. That's still considered using it for your Yes, so now right. So now the yes, the hundred percent if have time to clean their house only reason why they're hiring cleaning help is because of the work. Meaning if they already have the cleaning help and then they decide to go get a job, then obviously that cleaning help is not connected to your to your income. It's because you got a job and say, you know what, I can't keep this job unless I have the cleaning help, then you could take it off the top. Now where it gets interesting is where and this a lot of times this becomes into a shalom bayit thing. The husband says, "What do you mean, you have time to clean?" It's just mentally the woman says, "I need to have that cleaning help in my house. Whether we actually need it or not is immaterial. I need I need her there just so I can go to work calm and not stressed out. Is that enough of a need? I would think it is. I would think that it is. But uh that's where it gets a little dicey. You then that's usually between the husband and the wife and cuz he doesn't want to he doesn't want to I'll jump in because you you also wrote in the sheets that if someone needs to spend money on shalom bayit, then that's also it's another vague one. Yeah, that's another one. Yes. Yes. So technically if you have shalom bayit problems because of cleaning help spend the money That that's a hundred percent. I would say it's a hundred percent if if hiring cleaning help is going to help your shalom bayit then then that is uh What if you don't have shalom bayit that leads to the number one, they say this is what my say that's not my department that shalom bayit lack of shalom bayit is what leads to kids having difficulties in school and socially and then you're going to just end up spending that money on therapy. So why don't we just cut that out and have the shalom bayit? That's Again, needs needs to be calculated. That's why everybody has to discuss it with with the Well, it can be a rabbi, it can be somebody else. It's just even getting a third party which you may not want to divulge privacy to other people. So you go to a rabbi who will have hopefully uh you know, the private and the experience of dealing with people like that. But even if it's just to discuss it with anybody third party who's objective and can tell you, "No, you're not thinking, you know, your cleaning lady is there because your cleaning lady is there having nothing to do with your your work." And I mean that's you just get a third party involved to just help you clarify. Clarify it. Okay, let's go on to another part that I wanted to bring up. Uh you know, you know, I'm again in the financial planning field. Um there's investments, there's stocks, there's bonds. So I think this is a pretty clear and it makes sense that if you don't sell or make any let's say for example, a lot of times it comes to scenario where someone I'll use bonds for example, someone has a bond they get they put in a thousand dollars, they get interest from the bond but that goes right back in to their investment. A mutual fund for example where you have all this mixture of stocks and bonds and there's interest income within those investments but it goes right back into the investment. Would you say that that's money that he's earned or got gotten as income so that now he has to pay ma'aser and they have to make a calculation every Right. So that there's actually at least three opinions if not more on this how to do that. But back then they didn't the poskim didn't have this but they had the the example that they're using is you have a grocery store. So if you have a grocery store, you sell a bottle of milk and you made ten cents. So now do you have to go give a penny on that even though at the end of the day leftovers of your milk got spoiled and you're going to have to throw it out. So you're taking a loss on that. So do you make that calculation every second or do you or whatever every at every purchase and every sale and every loss right then and there? You could end up losing all your money if you do it that way. You're giving ma'aser on all the and then and then you're not calculating. So the Chofetz Chaim says in his sefer Ahavas Chesed which is one of the major sources gets less coverage in sefer Chofetz Chaim Mishna Berurah but Ahavas Chesed is the sefer that that's the go-to sefer on these halachas and he he basically says you should make a calculation once a year. Usually before Rosh Hashanah make a calculation, okay, what where let's draw the line. Sort of like taxes. Like sort of like, you know, April 15th. Well, actually it's December well, yesterday, right? But uh And that's where you have you have two months, right? Meaning the right, the line is drawn at the end of the year. Now, what was your income? Oh, one year you can make 100,000 next year you lose 200 uh 100,000 you can't offset it. Although sometimes in stocks you can, depending on how you right, depending on how you structured it. But, uh you just draw that line and then whatever whatever's in your bank account then, that's what you give and that's But, it's very difficult to do with with stocks and bonds and it coming and going. I mean, I personally tell people just when you pull out the money Right. >> As long as if it's in a stock account and you're trading and you're going back and forth and IRAs and and bonds and just one once you pull it out to spend, that's when you should uh It doesn't have to be necessarily done once a year cuz just the it doesn't it's not structured that way. It's like one right, it's like one mutual fund. Correct. And it's all Yeah. So, it's um okay, I think yeah, that's how I sort of looked at it. Um I think you know, again, a mutual fund the way it's looked at is that it's one that is the investment. It's like one stock, the whole package um is one stock and and and the rub is saying that calculate that at the end of the year um and again, only if you sell it also. Like if you if you made money Right. If you didn't if it's if it's unrealized if it's unrealized, then it's then then of course not. It's only if you did a sale. So, the problem is that you did a sale and then you just put it right back in. What's that thing when you buy a house and flip it? That's you don't pay taxes. What's 1031 1031 1031 So, you do a 1031 Let's say I sold one house, but only reason why I'm selling it is to go buy another house. Mhm. Right? So, then then you don't you don't have to take off my so cuz you're only selling it in order to go. Now, the the where it gets more complicated for the private middle income is let's say they bought um a couch. And they have the couch for 10 years. And now they're selling the couch on eBay for $1,000. Is that called income? Or is that just defraying the cost of the original the couch cost them 10 years ago. Mhm. Right? Or they're Or they're selling this couch in order to upgrade to another couch. So, they're really not making they're really not making that income. Mhm. Right. Let's see. >> So, I would say that if you're taking if you're selling the couch I mean, if it wasn't your intention to buy the couch and then to sell it then it's considered new income. But, not if it's going to right into another couch. Mhm. Another couch. Yeah. Then it's not it's not income. You're selling You're selling this in order to put it into in order to put it into something else. So, it's not it's not your income is un- unrealized It's going into something else. So, here's another thing that comes up. Um actually came up very recently for me. Um Are you Are you familiar with a donor fund? >> Sure. Don- donor funds. So, now donor funds I'll just explain briefly um the donor fund works that you can put money in and get a full tax charitable tax deduction right away even though you didn't specifically give it to a specific charity or whatever, the IRS allows you to get an upfront deduction and it's an unlimited deduction technically. If someone puts in $200,000, $100,000, whatever it is a donor fund allows you to get that upfront tax deduction. And I would say 90% of the time people have that money invested within a donor fund because the money is not being used right away to give to tzedakah. It's sitting there for a little bit of time and it's invested so that it grows. So, firstly, is that muter? To have money that's going to be ma'aser money go into a donor fund and I'm not saying to let's say go into a donor fund. I'm assuming that is okay cuz everyone has it. >> Right. So, that is okay. You never know. There is a philosophy that what everybody does can't possibly be ossur. Okay, right. Okay, whatever. You maybe you'll explain that in a second how that works. How that works. Um and also we'd be taking parnassah away from a lot of people, but again, I'm not the rabbi. So, um but um could it be invested? So, let's maybe let's talk about that. A donor fund, why is it okay to put ma'aser money? Is it okay? And why would it if it is or the opinions Ah, so really halachically there's something called bal ta'acher, which is that you're not allowed to push off doing doing a mitzvah. So, like really it has to do with carbonos. So, if you say you're going to bring a carbon to the mitzvah, you have up to three yamim tovim to bring. So, we say that there's an issur of bal ta'acher by tzedakah, too. And you can't push it off. So, basically this is where it gets a little confusing with these donor funds. If you have somebody knocking at your door and you've pledged tzedakah or you have ma'aser money in your ma'aser account and there's somebody that knocks on your door and and and he's legit. But, without getting into whether they're legit or let's say assuming they are legit. So, then you're mechuyav you're required to give your tzedakah right away. You can't You can't hold off. But, again, that's where things have changed nowadays because there everybody's being bombarded emails and what all you know, all the whichever way we get bombarded. So, it's very hard to figure out to give out I have to give out all my money now. I don't I can't have to first figure out who who I want to give it to etc. etc. So, that's why the donor fund really is okay. But, in theory, if you had tzedakah and you had the people there to give it to, then you'd you'd be required to give it to them. But, because we where everything requires research and time, so we allow we allow to put into the It seems like we allow seems like we allow to put it into the donor fund. But, really it should not be invested just for the investment's sake. Meaning if you put in the donor fund cuz you don't know where you want to put it yet. And therefore it's going to earn interest in something very conservative, right? Can't be anything crazy. Right. >> Like crypto. I don't know where you fall in the crypto thing, but uh >> anywhere that you have to make a kid a wedding? You have to get them a man A man has to marry off his son. Yes, that it says. A father has a responsibility to get his son married. Doesn't say that he has to pay for his son's his It doesn't really if you want to take it to the the As a disclaimer before we continue, we pasken that you cannot use ma'aser money. Obviously, if you don't have the money, then for sure you can use ma'aser money. Because really, you only have to support your kids up to the age of six. According to Shulchan Aruch, after the age of six, any support you give to your children can really come from ma'aser because you're not required after the age of six. How that worked back then, I don't even think we can grasp exactly how that worked. Putting a six-year-old out into the world by himself, but we're obviously much more immature nowadays. Yeah. So, uh in many ways but the in theory, you could take ma'aser money after that because you're not required Like we said, the main thing is you're not If it's something that you're not required to do, then you can take ma'aser money. And it's my and it's a kid is considered an oni. Right. >> Right, cuz he has no income. Get this question all the time from teenagers and guys in yeshiva. They say, you know, I make some money tutoring. Should I give ma'aser? Right? So, well do you have enough money to live? Mhm. Well, no. I only have enough money to live because my parents are nice enough to let me live in their home and they support me. So, that means really, you're poor. Haha. In theory, you are poor. Now, should you be giving ma'aser anyways? Yes, because you're taken care of, so you should. But, it's a little it's a little bit vague. So, um so in theory you can you can use ma'aser money to pay for your children's wedding. But, that's it's it's So, the question is can you take money and put it away in order to help Let's leave the wedding aside because wedding, that's a considered a normal thing to do then you cannot use ma'aser money. At least again, initially. Initially, right. But, kallah for sure you can use ma'aser money. And even seminary. Right, it's in there, I think. I haven't looked I should have looked at it before. I haven't looked at it in a while, but uh seminary, you can seminary Anything optional is covered by ma'aser. The rov said that seminary is optional. Okay. Yeah, it should it should be it should >> another whole podcast. Yeah, seminary should be optional. The the option should be not to go. But, But, okay. Okay, there you go. Um No disclaimers before that? No disclaimers. I don't care. Seminary is optional. It doesn't doesn't bother me. You hear that, Ari Boyandju? Seminary is optional. It's yes, it's optional, so you can use ma'aser money for seminary assuming that they're going to gain something religiously from it. If it's just to babysit a girl for a year to have a good time in Israel, then that's not ma'aser money. But, point is is that if I know I'm going to I'm going to want to support my children in kallah. So, why should I give So, now I have a guy knock on my door. Mhm. And let's say my child is 10 years old. So, a guy knocks on my door and says, "I'm making a coil." So, that's very nice. I want to make a coil myself in 10 years from now. Who would the coil is going to be? It's going to be my children. Right? So, why should I give you for your coil, and then have to have my kids go collect for their coil? Why don't we just cut that out? Sure. As far as I remember, Rav Moshe Feinstein has a true about this. The problem is I don't remember what he says. But, there are certain certain I don't want to give the name of the community, but there's a community that it's supposedly they have been They've done this. And you can't say that it's also. That's That's That much I know. You cannot say that it's also. But, the only issue with it is that you're supposed to give your tzedakah money right away. So, putting it away now for use in 10 years, you worry about 10 years in 10 years from now. So, that's where the controversy comes in. But, in theory Mhm. it's it's okay. When people ask me can they do this, I I tell them, you know, somewhere down the middle. Like, you can put a little bit away now, use maaser money. But, then you If they don't end up learning a coil, Mhm. then you the halacha you should not be able to give them that that money. But, this gets It gets technical later on. But, uh Well, let's say a regular donor fund um where they just don't know where to give it, and they can essentially have more money to give to maaser. By using a donor fund and investing it conservatively, even if you just put in some government bonds, you make some interest. That >> Yeah, but really you're supposed to give the money now. So, that's the thing. You're supposed to give the money now. >> you So, is it okay Is it okay to use a donor fund? Like It is okay because you don't know where As long as you don't know where and when you're giving your money to. Right. >> But, let's say somebody's lucky and he makes himself, I don't know, a million dollars, and he's got $100,000 to give. Right. >> So, what should he do? Just any every guy that knocks on the door Right. >> he should just give it out to? It's It's not He's not going to feel Mhm. He's not going to feel good with He's not going to know what what happened. He's going to turn around and say, "What do I do with my money?" >> Mhm. Right? So, put it in the donor fund, and and then uh Mhm. So, it's a it's a good thing in a way, I think, the fact that we have such a concept. Also, the donor fund is If someone does give tzedakah, they save a lot on the taxes, they'll give more tzedakah. Right. Well, Yeah. Yeah. And then they'll make more money. And then they'll make more money cuz that's what the halacha clearly says. The more money you give, the more money you get. But, that's again that's the problem. That's what people give money when they shouldn't be because they say, "Oh, like it says, if I give tzedakah, then I'm going to get my That's all very nice if you have the money." Right. >> don't have the money. Same thing on Shabbos. On Shabbos it says you get all your money paid, right? We get your money paid back. Right. Shabbos, which by the way, I believe is an easy way to teach bitachon to children. Is like it's Chol HaMoed. Okay, how many times do you want to go to Six Flags? I don't want to mention store names. Like, how many Not not can we go? How many It's all free. That's what it says very clear. It's a Gemara. It says Chol HaMoed all expenses are going to be paid back. You may not see it, but it does. So, you just I At least I try and practice this. Just go. You want to go to the grocery store? I heard this once from Rav Simcha Pincus years ago. He said his kids knew on a Friday they just go to the grocery and buy whatever they want. They don't have to ask. Wow. >> have to Just get it because it's If it's l'kavod Shabbos, right? You have to You have to make sure it's l'kavod Shabbos. I have had my kids have asked me if they can get a rollerblades cuz they want to rollerblade on Shabbos. So, I said, "I'm not so sure that that suffices." They tried. Like, a like a watch or a new Right? You got a scooter. You got rights. So, but uh But, Shabbos it says you should Mhm. you should uh spend, and Hashem will pay it back. Who and I alive and I parent. But, it also says make your Shabbos into weekday, and don't come on to others. So, how do you understand How do you understand those two? So, basically, what is it? If you have If you know you have the money coming in, so borrow. Right? You have a deal next week. You don't know if it's going to make it or not, but in all probability it'll make So, borrow from somebody now, pay for Shabbos, I'll make sure you're covered. That's what Hashem says. But, if you don't have anywhere where that income's coming from, then Hashem says, "Do not make you fancy Shabbos, and then come on to somebody else." So, meaning Mhm. >> That's something to keep in mind. With all the schoolers And it was called a schooler, but it's it's halacha that if you give maaser, you will get paid back. As we shall see. So, all those all those things. Mhm. That being said, you have to know that you have you have the money available. But, uh Mhm. Yeah, so that's that's what we have to keep in mind. I once heard from Rabbi Willig from YU. Maybe I shouldn't say. Is it recording or is it not recording? I once heard from Rabbi Willig from YU. I heard on a shiur. So, it's on Y I probably on YU Torah. Yes. >> He said that schools are supposed to be bringing up the next generation. Right? But, the tuition crisis is actually shrinking the next generation. Because that's one of the reasons people don't want to have kids. Really? >> Is because of Yeah, well, I'm saying You look at a kid and you got It's part of It's It's Yes, it's part of people's calculation. Why have another kid? Usually the man is calculating that, but the woman doesn't particularly care. And the man's like, yeah. Whatever. They're going to be in the shalom bayis section of the But, uh um Yeah, it's You're looking at a a child. It's I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it's short-sighted, but whatever. Anyways. Yes. So, okay. So, let's uh just talk a little bit more shifting out of the maaser tzedakah charity conversation a little bit. And if you have a couple of lessons that are morals or lessons or things to tell people uh when it comes to money, the right perspective on it. Um you know, maybe you've seen some success stories of people that have done business the right way. Um just a couple of good rabbinic teachings. Okay. That's uh It's a broad topic, but >> It's a broad topic. Problem is I don't remember from minute to minute. So, Okay. >> you know, you hear all sorts of stories, but I actually heard a story yesterday. I mean, first hand story. Um yesterday or the day before where a yeshiva needed I don't know exactly the numbers. Yeshiva needed the money. They asked for a loan from a wealthy individual. And I think a wealthy individual. And he said he'll He was planning on giving the next year, but he was giving this year. He said, "I'll give you the money now." Uh substantial amount. I don't remember Not more than It may be well into the six digits as far as I remember. And then an hour later, a debt that he never expected ever get paid back came right in. Wow. >> I don't know if it was the exact amount. I think it was even more than the amount that he had just given. Mhm. So, I got That's just fresh in the mind that that's uh Mhm. The most unbelievable story that I ever I that I remember in tzedakah is not so much inspirational how much success. I actually saw this I I that I I was in Mishpacha magazine. I don't know if I had heard it independent of it, but it made it into Mishpacha magazine. If that's good or bad, whatever you Whatever you made it. Right? Where they were collecting money in Lakewood. Story was in Lakewood, which by the way, in Lakewood when there's a tzara that happens, that we should never know from it. But, when there's a man they collect that money in in note In a week they have that money collected. And I've had people come to me and say, "How come in the Five Towns when these things happen, you guys can't get it together?" But, maybe that's too much That's a question that I've been asked multiple times from multiple places. There's different interesting answers, but that's clearly not for now. But, anyways, so they were collecting money. And then the the gabbai of the the gabbai who was collecting the money gets a knock on the door. And he says and and the fellow tells him, "I heard you have enough money already for your tzedakah." So, he says, "Yeah, we have enough money." He says, "So, I gave you head checks." Now, I don't remember the numbers, but I gave you head checks, I think, for $10 a week or $10 a month for the entire year. Or I don't know whatever the number was. And it was really really difficult for me to to give you that money. So, if you don't need it, if maybe we can Now, halachically whether that's allowed or not because once you give the tzedakah, you can't take it back. So, the fellow said, "You mind asking me like what you what you did here?" He said, "Yeah, we decided that we will have no meat in our cholent for the rest of the year. And we're going to take that money from the meat from the cholent, and we're going to give it to this widow and these orphans." And but we really would like to have meat in our cholent. So, Right? Can you imagine? That's That's That's That is the way Correct. Correct. So, you have lots of people that are just giving. Now, again, without getting into whether they should be I'm not so sure if they would have asked that question, we'd say to not do that. But, the point is is that so many I I Like, people ask me, "What are the most common questions asked?" So, obviously, Torah and Mishpacha is number one, and then kashrus. I would say maaser is probably next. Wow. Or definitely in the top to top. And people are just They're giving their maaser. They want to know where to give it to, how to give it to it. And you have some funny ones. But, uh I don't want to say. Maybe somebody would be listening. But, there's a really interesting They want different attain Like, uh um They wanted to stick by a chasanah. Can they use maaser money for that? Mhm. Right? It's like a chesed. Yeah, cuz it's chesed, right? What's It's simchas chasan v'kallah, which is a mitzvah. You know, that type of One wanted to use maaser lady for something dating to help out people dating. Right? It's just what what klal Yisrael's trying to do is is uh is amazing. Mhm. Yeah. But, we have But, the But, I don't want to sound too I mean, we love to hear the inspiring stories. Oh, yeah, and it worked out. But, that doesn't mean that we don't have to do it just because just because uh we want to get inspired. Really, we should be giving to Dhaka because that's what it meant that's what Hashem mandates. That's That's how we share the burden etc. etc. Like it is interesting that the only time you can test Hashem Right. is with is with giving is with giving to Dhaka. Now, people test Hashem and they say, "Hey, it didn't work." Right. But cuz you have the opinions that say that that test only works with giving 10% of your grain like trummus and maisers doesn't mean Oh. Okay. >> Many opinions say that the meaning there's always a defense. That's the problem. You need to have You need to have bitochen. You need to have the the faith in that. >> Mhm. But uh Mhm. Yeah, but that cloud is stroll is giving I don't know. They They're giving They're giving maiser. I think that's what you were discussing before about sustaining how how it's What do you call it? What was the name you gave it? The Jew The Jewish economics. >> Jewish economics. I think a lot of it has to do with I think a lot of it has to do with uh to Dhaka. I mean many many people have said that when I started giving the to Dhaka or giving more to Dhaka, I saw more I saw more um I mean I I I I see this all the time with people's The amount of Dhaka that's being given is unbelievable. Do you feel the same? >> Yeah, 100%. I I see that it's I mean I'm talking about people that are I mean maybe well off but not like you know Bill Gates, you know, something like that but they're giving you know, 10% of whatever they make even though if they're they're not sticking by the rules. Um the main thing here when I again with the podcast in the middle class is that um you know, give to Dhaka, give maiser but also know that there's a calculation behind it what you have to what you don't have to give and it's okay if there's you know, if you have things that are okay and you need to support your family, you know, there are things that are taken off your gross income that you don't have to take maiser of. You don't automatically take % 10% and then also the to the other extreme if someone's in credit card debt, they should not be giving. >> 100%. That for sure. >> They shouldn't. And and if they have tuition deductions, give to the there's Maybe let's end with this last halacha. The order of giving to Dhaka. Who has priority? Maybe I don't know if it's a maiser discussion or a general discussion. >> No, it's also it's also it's a I mean you have there's a priority giving to Dhaka. So who comes first? >> comes first. Family comes >> Family comes first and this comes up it comes up a lot. You know, parents need help elderly parents need help. That comes that comes first. Most certainly you can use maiser for that. However, Mhm. don't tell the parents that you're using maiser. That that's that's an important point. You can you could not only could should use maiser for parents, siblings Mhm. children of course. But uh so that's first, then it's the the the poor of your own city. Your own city and that would include yeshivas, let's say. Yeah, for sure for certain. Mhm. And or and supporting Torah which is the same thing. Mhm. Right? Giving money to yeshivas is you're supporting Torah and you're supporting Mhm. the poor. Mhm. That's right. You're doing you're really covering both. When you're giving to yeshiva, that's that's considered giving to to the poor. But poor of your own city, how you define your own city I is maybe becoming a little bit more vague with technology like the whole world is becoming one place. Mhm. Yerushalayim then Yerushalayim gets gets a priority and then Eretz Yisrael gets a priority. >> Interesting. So but really yeah, you're right with the in the local economy is is more important. Mhm. Interesting. >> Yeah. Local economy. So but I yeah, I want to tell you something I now you remind me. There's many people giving 20%. Really? >> I I've got I've got many questions from people say I'm giving I'm giving I'm already giving 20%. I don't remember in what context why they're telling me that but cuz they want basically they want the second 10% you can be more lenient as to what you what the 10% Mhm. goes to. There's an opinion that says that the second 10% could actually go for required mitzvahs. Like you can buy lulav and esrog with your second 10%. Oh, interesting. >> Right? There's opinions that say that. So but but yeah, there's be be surprised there's people really giving giving 20%. 20%. >> Yeah, it's it's I yeah, I you hope that they could afford it. You hope. You hope. You hope they're doing it properly. But like there there's worse things in the world unless Right. >> There's worse things in the world. No, no. Not if you're going into debt. That's not That's a no-no. That's absolutely not allowed. If you're going into debt to give to Dhaka, that's wrong. But I you're not going into debt. Okay, so you're not putting money away for your kids but you're giving to Dhaka. You know, that Hashem that's up there that gave you your first thousand dollars can give you the second thousand with Mhm. without uh Mhm. without a problem. Mhm. I would say if you maybe I'll throw this in there um cuz it's been spoken about a lot now recently having life insurance. So let's say someone spends $500 a month on to Dhaka and they don't have life insurance cuz I know this is a big thing. I think again a lot of financial planning needs to be discussed as the rov mentioned financial advisor. You have to really go through each thing but life insurance specifically I think is a big talk today and a lot of people don't have it. Could they use maiser money for that? Can they use maiser money for life insurance? Okay, so that's already a little bit tougher to say to use the maiser money. The question more >> the top. >> Right, take it off the top. Take it off the top. Yeah. >> I could hear it being taken off the top a lot faster. I would say take I right off the bat I would say taking off the top would be allowed to use maiser for it. Also debatable. It's also debatable >> it's not ad le andish. Right, because it's become accepted I think to have life insurance. I would think it's considered >> It's accepted you should have it. Yeah. Well, I don't know if people have it but really it should be it's it's should be I mean everybody should have some form of of life insurance. Now, it was initially when life insurance came out so it was a big issue is it a lack of bitochen etc. etc. But you know what? We have things that we've Nobody gets engaged without Dor Yesharim. Right? Dor Yesharim meaning you check the genetics, right? Right. A lot of rabbis when that came out were anti. A lot of controversy with the much of I think held about it. Right? Mhm. So they were they were anti it's just a lack of faith. What is it? The numbers? Even if they both matches at 25%. So what's the chances? Now, obviously it worked it eradicated it did it did away with Tay-Sachs. But it's accepted to do that. Mhm. >> Right? So now I think it's accepted to have to have life insurance in some way, shape or form. So then therefore that's considered a an expense. Right. >> Right? So if you can't afford life insurance so then that means you're not making ends meet. Mhm. >> So then it would come off the top. >> come off the top. >> Off the top. Yeah, that's that's that's what I would think. I mean especially with >> term not term that No, no, no. No, no, no. going down that road. Um But I think also to add that life insurance is if you don't have it, you'll come on to other people. Correct. You might come Yeah. might come on. So I again that's again another financial planning um piece there. I think there's a lot more to talk about um I guess if someone has a question, they can always email us [email protected] or text the rabbi. You can do that. >> Always text the rabbi. We'll be We're happy to give out the number or WhatsApp the rabbi. Oh, yeah. Um I prefer text actually but I know we've been WhatsApping only because the Apple Watch the Apple Watch gives a lot more beeps. Uh no, it have a lot more options to answer from the watch as opposed to the WhatsApp only gives you like three pre Ah. Oh, you like can't talk right now or >> Correct. Right. Or no, I have pre I have pre uh pre No, if I type into my phone m a you will get a link to that that app um automatically. Right? Yeah, that's another I could show you that if you want to have a a podcast about technology and what how to use it to your advantage, I can I can I'm not offering to do that but I'm just saying >> Well, too late, rabbi. We're going to maybe have you again Yeah. cuz we still have a lot to talk about but it's really been a close and a pleasure. Um And again if someone wants the maiser sheet, let us know. Or you can go on the website. There is a website with all the TY What is it? Not There's no advertising in it so it's okay. As much as it's been asked um this is not this is not a shameless plug. Right? This is not a shameless plug cuz I There's no end game here. There's no no ad for the rabbi. TY Stein at yahoo.com TY Stein.com. Yeah. TY Stein.com. >> my email one of my emails TY Stein at yahoo.com. Yeah, a lot of PDFs. Anyway, in general halachas beautifully you know, I mean I use it all the time. Like I said ADHD from an ADHD guy. That's how That's how it was. >> Yes. Succinct, quick. Um to the point uh but again what a really what a pleasure. Thank you. I appreciate you having me. >> Of course I enjoyed it. Of course you enjoyed it. Thank you. Um and everyone should contact us with any feedback of course. Um email, they can call, text text the rabbi. If they want the PDF also be in touch. And thank you very much. >> Thank you. Okay.