Charging for Services on Shabbos- How and When is it Permitted Shiur by Rabbi Nochum Scheiner

K on Shas sell and buy is an and the reason either we're learning now this the what the is Z day going to come to write extended the is of not only are you now let us sell and buy in chabas but you also now let to do something that's going to bring you income say you're not selling somebody the item we'll go through a couple of examples before we even start this she just to bring it out but not that you're selling somebody something it's yours you're renting him the item you're giving him the item you giving them a service and you're getting money that's shabas you're gaining money you're gaining money on shabas is also and it's Rashi brings it in in U that's what we're learning now in Simon shin brings that going to ask me meaning to say is they made one big of course they made it but it's one big you find it also shabas just to go through a couple of examples then we'll try to see would be if let's say you rent out a room a hotel room an apartment if you rent it out for shabas that's shabas you're renting it to the person it's yours you're getting money for renting the apartment you have money in the bank the money is sitting in the bank and for every day that it's in the bank you get interest that is shabas it's your money you're letting somebody use your money and for that you're getting interest that is shabas we're going to go through to see each item even though it's sh babysitting yeah you have a SIM whether you go somewhere else your home and you have somebody babysitting your children on chabas and you want to pay the babysitter that would be shabas a car rental you have a car renting company and you rent out the car we soon see is even for a go even meaning to say is the is benefiting from your service and he's giving you money it's also awesome you're now let it take shabas even if it's from a go another example many mik charge for using the Mikvah chabas that also you have a mik you're letting somebody use your mik and you charge is right for shabas he's a charge some m is right if you're from out of town then you don't have to but they them they charge you have somebody that runs a p the BOS leaders you pay them that's that that would be sure many more examples will go through as much as we can cover tonight so the is is is to take you now to take the money the is is also to give but this is to take that to take the person doesn't evenings you don't even have to give the money and as we mentioned just before the is even from a go you now to take shabas even from a go so we went through a lot of examples to bring out shabas we're not speaking about tonight that's not our that's not what we're learning now is a separate idea a person has his website open on chabas and it's selling that's but we're not now we're not talking about selling anything we're talking about you're providing a service and by you providing a service you're getting money that's called is awesome however there are number one brings it by us explains it for example exle you hire somebody to on shabas and you want you're paying him so the is it's the reason why it's m is because of Mitzvah that's the first hat Mitzvah forv it's m one second we'll get it's very good brings this to charge on chabas and he says is talking about but like he's saying very good it's means it's it's m but at the end of the day what are you gain by the person being he's taking money so that's says that's why in the case by a mikah brings another hat and that's the Hat we're going to see about how law which we'll go into now but the first this is not the only example these other cases being a being a all these are to get to to take the money on shabas when you're not selling something it's AAS however however there's another which is maybe this is even really the first hat if you rent out an apartment just for shabas and you take money for that that's called shabas however if you rent it out from Friday afternoon to Sunday for the weekend and when you're charging you're not only charging for shabas you're charging also for the weekday you're taking money for shabas but you're taking that money it's by law with the money that you're charging for Friday for Sunday but this is very important to bring out this is not the is it's not a it's not atick that it's how to take the money you to sell and to sell you could sell the with the Lula give him along long an EST but if you sell the Lula for $700 when it's usually sold for 150 and then you give that's not the right of law I'm not going over there the means that when you're selling him the you also include the here the idea of just means that you're not only giving money forab but that you also giving other money even if it's a little bit meaning to say is a daily rental is for $0000 and because you're coming from Friday afternoon to mat shabas it's 450 so it's not it's not the cuz I'm I'm charging for Friday and Mon shabas and I'm sneaking in the shabas the if he's also monies not from shabas it's m the varm is maybe is some of say the reason is what you say why is it not ni it's G's fine n some of the say the reason is is because I don't understand it fully that's I wasn't going to say it but if you that once the that you're going to write but if you're already doing it with you're already going to write it I'm not sure why we're not you write chabas but it's hard what you're saying an nicker I'm not sure if I understand it I'm not sure if you give it if you have extra we're going to go into more also but if one it's a package deal for the weekend so it's not nicker that you shabas I mean if the reason is reason reason another another so good so this is all very good when you rent somebody an apartment or you rent the go your car for shabas but he has a an hour before shabas what would be let's say let's take the example of the mikah how could the M charge on shabas if you sayah but it's not you coming Friday and we're charging for Friday for shabas if you go to the Mikvah on shabas just on chabas they charge you for the Mikvah so what kind of is the what say very good other say that these the other po say that these have law also for the expense like he said the towel and even the cleaning expense also in other words if you're not charging the whole two or5 doar whatever they charge just just for the in other words it's not just it's also CU it's costing me to operate the mikah have bills it's heating the water it's the towels it's the cleaning so when I'm charging the $5 part of the $5 is also so is mixed with the I call Park and ask him if he charges me he got hold something like what why charge on chers all insulted I heard all insulted I'm like saying he charges officially on chers he didn't want to rely I hear I hear laaa is like this many mikas clearly write that is a price AR shabas is $5 and then they right shabas is $2 they charge so the is it a speaking but here it's m I don't think anyone argues is you're charging just or also no no no no no every business has every that's a business you buy and sell and make profit every business has to have expenses which cost and then make profit if the head is going to be only or also so first of when you say every business has a so let's Emison they really Mis on this that we spoke about the hotel room that cuz an hour before really even if you take a just for shab some say and the reason why it's m is because first of all all he says that first if you go to hotel that givs food you're paying for the food that you allow to pay even even the food that you get on shabas but even not that so they have wash the L but you saying every business the expense of that of what's going on on shabas of of course if you have a car rental so I had to buy the car but if it doesn't cost me anything when you rent it that also could be the RIS afterwards you have to clean the car that's V like the case in with the oven you give the oven to a for shabas no the oven is the way it is nothing changed it wouldn't be unless you you include also a little bit of a rental from before shabas very good that's the case so that the het for somebody a sh to pay a sh so it's only he's not only watching for shabas he's watching for a few more days the case of for the week which by the way it's very important to note I think the spells it out clearly if you if you're going to let's say give him the room the hotel room or a car rental and it's a daily rate so even if it's for the whole week it doesn't help that you're giving it them for the week that's not have law if it's $700 for the week and it's $100 a day it's aome because the $100 of shabas is shabas it's only a law theot is if you give it them from Friday afternoon till Sunday it's $400 when usually it would have been 350 you give him a weekly rate of andas is included that's again because we're tricking that we're making believe like we're not charging for shabas but it's m as opposed to if you if you you give somebody even this Sher you're paying him for the week but the way you're paying him for the week is $100 a day it's AER that's how we began off with interest from a bank we're going to get to it soon trying to go organize but there also even if the bank gives you once a month the interest but if they calculate per day so the day of shambas isas I don't care if they give it to you in a check per month they wire it into your bank account but they're giving you per day 12 12 what' say oh we'll get the good good that's that's another way so what do we have so far just we spoke about we also spoke about have law two types of have law either have law that you're not only charging for shabas or if you're only charging for shabas but these other let's just go to another example to pay a so for this WR to have him DAV let's say the first night so that's of law you're paying him for a package but including of that also is the DAV the first night of what say so so the Emma says I didn't see that anyone says that would be the I'll tell I'll tell you I'm paying the B to I'm not paying him to I'm paying him to D Grand you want to D well you have to PR he has to prepare I'm not paying I'm I'm pay I'm paying you to prepare do prepare don't prepare if you know how to come and if you find that says let's go to have him to come a week before that's not called OFW because you never pay somebody to stop something is we the same thing as for also to pay what you're going to tell him to come one day before to blow unless you you tell to come I want to pay you also to come the what for one day no one pays a person to come for one day in L let's see maybe these other other a hat as well also but interesting if anybody has a mar for that that the practice is included you're paying for the practice is the same thing what does this do you don't mean what we did you want to know what we're going to do let's see after she we see what's the theaa here's a thing like this also to here it's not applicable anymore because it's it's however the one who's taking the money so why is he doing it so we we could continue doing paying them okay I hope the not going to come we have to have to figure out for them also no but we're saying they come but let's be more that'll be applicable to this as well going right back into hav we spoke about hav we said two types OFW one OFW is you include also the day before and then there's another type of where these so we mentioned the case of Interest yeah I have money in the bank Bank you're now to take money shabas even from a so you have money in the bank now the interest rates are up and it's you know it's more than one penny a year so the isus that's coming in over here on shabas so what's Thea that it's but why because the way how the banks calculate they pay for a day but the way they calculate is from Midnight to midnight so let's say it starts from Friday night midnight to M shabas midnight so is's already sometime after shabas also that they're giving you interest so that's of law of law it's not your shabas it's also after shabas oh very good very good sh would be a problem shabas and he GR I'm we're going to leave out for now two days yam let's go regular shabas and yam either Friday is yam and shabas or shabas and Sunday both could happen so is definitely a 24hour period from Midnight to midnight that's either just which and that little bit you should make he says you should give it to however however the another Chu Raa that Raa says that could be it's a CH I'm saying over the but he says that it could be even when it's two days it's m and he says like this the bank will never take your money for one day if you tell them you want to put in for one day they're not going to take it they take it even if you don't put in a CD but when you give it they're taking a long term it's long term it's like for the week for the month for the year which Dr and then he shs to the same ideas also someone owns a nursing home so how does he charge the same thing as like a hotel but here M it's per night per bed per patient the state the government gives money so it's also what's what's the hatter what's the shabas it's CL shabas so Dr if you have a patient just for one night that's not where they pay it's only when it's when the when the patient's there for a while so that's right that's oh in the Chua himself at least he's bothered by by the bank but Nur he says that I didn't understand clear by the bank he's Masashi he says it's true the bank's not going to take the your money just for one day that let's say even minimum three months but l once they take it they calculate it per day like we say very good even when the says that you could do it per week it's only if these a weekly rate but if it's per week and every day you get paid per day that's right you get interest every day it doesn't make a difference when they give it to you what is if but but if you take it out the middle of the month they would still give I don't know I don't know how the banks work I don't know I don't know but even if they do or they don't at the end of the day if you have it there for a month and when they gave it to you for the month they gave you $5 because they calculated per day so it means they're giving you clearly per the day of shabas also speaks that the long what what Sayan there is a that that per day but it has to be for the week seems to say that even though per day per day but got be a week that might be seems like he's making all that mean if you need the whole time if you have to keep it in so he saying let's see if maybe taking a patient for one day could be example maybe really think things will take one day could technically do it I think you're saying let's say if a person puts in the money in a CD that it's clearly stuck there for a while then you'll be able to rely on that Hatter it's interesting the go brings this with the bank and then he the ribus the interest and then he says in tant he starts off the chu he says but if you use this money let's say to marry off your kids then it's a Mitzvah then it's m the other hat let's move along now a couple of more this Hatter you have to really know how to use the hatter but the Hat the mar brings works with the hat it's not clear but Al the hat is if it's prepaid at least in certain cases when you prepay something even if you don't end up using it taking it showing up you lose the money I got the money already before you rent Department only on chabas and there's no other no nothing I got the money ready even if you don't show up you're not getting back the money so I already was before Shas to this would be M simple like anything any time any sh of anything if you prepay that's the another he the m r brings which is not always so easy to use is if you don't make up the amount before but we'll soon see it's you could if you don't make up the amount before it is a doesn't charge people give money for the but there's no money made up before if you don't make up a price before there's a price that the people say what the price is what people give but if a person doesn't give that price there's no you're going to tell him that's not the price but CL you didn't make up before sometimes also sometimes blow because it's a blow and afterwards they get a check for being a to so that also does not go into shabas it's not always practical because if somebody's doing a job or going into some other it's not so practical not to make up before but sometimes you're doing it because you're doing it because you're doing it Anda you get you get money for it also just to I want to conclude very even though it's onas even though think I mentioned it over here the next the next the next the next is let's say a ro or a which is very NE um new to help out Aid a midwife yeah a labor coach Midwife you call them on shabas to come and they come and they come so so what so that's that also be side could be even just like of course it's it's M for a doctor also bring that disciples you have to make sure to pay I just want to conclude with with one case a baby said on shabas I think that's you know like a big a big one and that's what's what's the it's not a Mitzvah I mean what's the what's the so is like this if this is a baby sitter that you come you call her to come Friday or M of shabas or Tuesday but not that you pay per hour because if you're going to call her to come Thursday and she was 2 hours Thursday and 8 hours shab and then you're paying her per hour so you didn't gain anything but let's say you tell us I need your help come shabas for a few hours come Thursday for for half hour and I'm paying you that amount that would be M that's I saw some want to bring the same like we saw about the if she buys arts and crafts or snacks or candy or Nash I that would also be the bring such that's also the you have to reimburse her for that that once you giving you give it all the money and lastly and with this I'm going to conclude lastly in in another brings others also basically these also a hat there which is if you give the person a mat if you if you ask somebody to do a service for you on chabas and then and he charges $50 and you give him $50 of Matana that's that's a joke that's paying however if you have a babysitter you called the babysitter the going R it's very interesting and the Chuy writes the going rate is a dollar an hour um let's say whatever the going rate L Marshall now is $10 an hour and you call the babysitter for 5 hours and you ask add on money you add on money so not the is that you're adding on money so with other money when you add our money so now instead of the $50 you g let's say $60 so it's it's let me just read the Lan I I thought so also that it's a you're also giving a mat I thought the same also that you're paying besides what you're paying you're also adding on M that would make things like simple always you hire whatever you're doing you add on a few dollars it seems like the whole thing becomes small says say it's a dollar an hour and she's watching babysitter's watching for three hours so he says ye $330 and three dimes so so what does he mean it means just the extras of just means that now the whole thing is that be so just to these many cases we didn't get a lot of cases also but are the two types of we saw we saw sometimes if you prep but these are all in when theed to these examples will be