Menachos 72

Today's d is and we will begin two lines from the top of so the gummor is continuing to discuss the of the carbon. So again the carbon was a carbon and it's for that reason it's discussed in detail in not it was brought which we have a meant the second day of pes. So shabas is the first day pes would be the second day pes. So the second day pes this carbon that was made primarily of was brought and the significance was twofold. Number one it was a carbon like all carbon. Number two it was so the says very clearly that until the was brought it was to eat from the new crops that had grown. This is this is when the new crops are ready to be eaten. Stating that the says that before you eat from the new crops you have to bring the carbon. We mentioned for really it's mashment that we're very much in the that the idea of the carbon was very similar to the concept of trum and miser to the concept of the idea is the ra is always supposed to be given to the racial is supposed to be given to the kayan to the and that's the idea with as well before you eat from the first thing that was meant to be done was to take from what was harvested and give it to in the form of a carbon m now there are many mitzvah that were associated directly and indirectly with the carbon. You had the of the carbon. You have the mitzvah of was counting down until another carbon was brought the also known as the one of the mitzvah was the itself. So cutting the that was going to be used for the carbon was in it of itself a mitzvah and in fact it was done in a very ceremonious way. The Mishna said earlier in the par it was done. So the night before the carbon was going to be brought le the kayanim would go out and three kayanim and and and the played a role in it. Whoever was walking distance or horse and buggy distance was very much encouraged to attend. It was done with a lot of fanfare. The reason was all that we had previously discussed. But one of the things that are noa from the fact that the was a mitzvah was that you were not even allowed to do with any before the mitzvah was done. So before the was done with the there was an iser to do any for mundane mass. And not only was it also to eat from the before the carbon was brought, it was also to harvest the it was also to do from the before the mitzvah was on stating that the mention certain exceptions to the rule. Three of the exceptions mentioned the you are allowed to be from. So what does mean? So Rash in the Mishna said Rashi said that what it means is that you have an or sapling and next to it is wheat. That wheat you allowed you'd be allowed to cut. Rashi said is because the whole is to cut from the before the mitzvah was done is only because the first is supposed to be done. It's for that reason it says and it's really based on a that is relates only to that you were allowed to use for the carbon and being that grows next to these was for the carbon is for that reason you didn't have the so says the reason there's no to because this anyways won't be able to use for the said another and that is that when the is because you're worried there may be an isol And it's that reason to do it is referring to an interesting that is not very prevalent. But what happened if there was a base and there was nowhere to sit and somebody comes the sit down and she says they used to make the and somewhere in the middle of the city they're looking for a place where the aum can sit you can't sit on a chair they're going to sit on the ground. So you let it beer so there'll be place for the aim to sit and med is the same thing. if the standing room only in the base and they're trying to clear up more area for the to be able to sit and learn. So you got to beer. So it was because the teaches me that you're not allowed to be before the was brought is the is the one that's going to be used for the carbon. us till that was done. you're not allowed to do any other but the is and we learn from there it's only if it's that there's a that the has to go to the but let's say the is not it's then there's no that it's going to be also it's for that reason now we understand why the reason of the works because if the is being done for It's if it's being done then also it's it's what about that's really according to second is because of the again it's being done for the purpose of mitzvah thus it doesn't fall into the of if it's because of a separate that the reason there's no is because only relates to that's going to be cautioned to use it anyway is not allowed to use that. So then you'd have to say when the says it's not really explaining all three of the it's only explaining the latitude of that even in the event that you're going to do such as or any other exception to the rule but you should do it with a you shouldn't make bundles of it. So do the then just leave it there but don't stop making bundles. Don't work too much with it. You want to make a noise even though it's okay to do it but don't do it in the ordinary fashion says my time don't be more than you have to say the was to bring it from the as the says you were supposed to take that was already that was standing the would go you'd be like the described in detail and then from that you would bring the carbon but the says it's If they didn't have any to bring for the carbon, then it's okay. You can take already from the bundles. If there's something just lying on the ground, that's also okay. So, it says in par we've already seen many times here the six that that describes is referring to the carbon. We said earlier it's a but it's a it's a it says the word being that the mitzvah is to bring the carbon from the how do you know that if you couldn't find from the then it's okay to bring from it's okay to bring bundles it doesn't have to be that's only on level but it's not that's okay that even if it's You can bring another thing that's learned out from there's a that was learned out from the word caramel. Remember the direction the word caramel it's an acronym caramel but but caramel taught me that we learned that it's supposed to be only but it doesn't have to be again third thing that we learn from the was done when you know that it doesn't have to be at night how do you know it could be done during the day as How do you know that it's even it says well actually it says it only one time but third that we learn now from the word and we learn from there teaches me that it doesn't matter whether it was or whether it was if it was standing if it was bundles just bring it it's always going to be okay says means that even if you're going to bring it from a far away place in which case it won't be anymore by the time you bring it into the md it's going to come out you're not being bring it from anywhere it doesn't matter it's not has to be from but as long as it's from even if it's not he says so by the time it arrives it's not going to be anymore it's not going to be moist anymore nobody cares it's fine and teaches me it doesn't matter if it's shabas if it's or like is in all of the affforementioned cases is it's going to be okay. So before we start the next gamarra which is really going to take us until the end of the par so we'll just speak out a little bit of ra a little prematurely at the earlier part of the d and that is two first is the garra said that although it's to do before the carbon but at the same time and the reason is because the only that's so if it's also but if it's such according to it's related to it's not a frivolous in that case the doesn't apply it's says I heard and the bothers me because the it really doesn't start and the background to is that we spoke out a lot of read about in the beginning the context is when the entered that first year did they eat matzah or they or did they not eat matzah and the says that holds that they couldn't eat matzah and the reason is because all the that was init and as a result they didn't have any from which they would be able to make matzah And being that everything was going to be they couldn't bring the there was no way for them to be able to eat from the they weren't able to eat brings from the says I don't understand why can the issay the obvious question they couldn't eat matzah because of the mat and says two very important first says and being that the boy it's the biggest says that there was the first what about the second? So we would say that there's no why not because even though the we're discussing but not to be that is only to be it's not to be if you remember we spoke out he says to tell a person makes sense We make the is not on the same level. You should say at the time we also spoke at another says that matzah really has a dual purpose. Matzah is a regular mitzvah. There's a mat is also carbon because the carbon is and the says that carbon have the of a carbon. So any that relates to a carbon is going to be true for carbon as well by carbon that you're not going to put something on that's it would apply to as well because as well you're going to go ahead now and eat the mat of if you're eating the mat You're running into but again this is all raid we spoke about earlier I heard is asking that what was the problem there's a that holds that he couldn't eat mat when he came in why not I could work it out he says I heard a but there's another risk that permeates these do that we're learning right now and that is the can make it work but what about for that you can't say because only works if it's not going to be because at the time that you're doing the of the so that you should be able to make matzah So with this you're already you have no so that it's a good but developed says I heard a how's that going to answer the says the reason is because it is the being that if the was being done it would have been done it's not worse than for Bish that even though it's not you're not being with that but you're doing it for a mitzvah and mean you're doing it for a mitzvah it's not considered and it's only that's also is not going to be also says that he and it's all in in his opinion in vain because it's not and if it's not it's that the is not going to that's the first the is the mentioned different that I learned out from the word it says and from the word we learn out that even though the says doesn't have to be and even though it's supposed to be meaning it's supposed to be it doesn't have to be and not just that a whole bunch of words that are learned out from the word it's interesting there's a In par's in the context of the and the says it says little but clearly what the terrorist is trying to say is that the carbon had to be brought and you weren't able to force to go ahead and bring the carbon and really it's a very big because we know the says and it's really many places in everybody knows the it's true for it's true for other mitzvah as well in fact there's a famous says why do I need which is a beginning of par to tell me when it comes to bring a carbon if true by all mitzvah. But the bottom line is is that again the says that that's only true when it comes to but by the when it comes to the it has to be the only time you're going to be is if you didn't want to do it but if they're not interested in doing a there's no that bez can force someone to bearish can force someone to sit in a to take a to put on fillin they can certainly force someone to bring a carbon to bring a carbon but the carbon is an exception to the rule also is because when the talks about the carbon so the says the is the in the beginning of par where the says right in the beginning So teaches me but for example where it says but by the carbon it doesn't say the word but it says that it says and it doesn't say doesn't say there's no there's no right to So it's it's interesting because we just learned that learned out five from the word that it says by the says and we learn from this so many different and here we have a say but it doesn't say the word all it says is the second part it says it says from there we learn that has to be learned but the is the says that although it says the word by the but it says in a different meaning this the word is in so you have the word you have the word I guess we don't put these words together you have to know is a little bit better but in par where the said in the same breath So teaches me right but over here we have the word and then you have although both talking about the but it's not together in the same breath though although we learned so many from the word we don't learn this and there's no when it comes to the carbon but the question is why not so the truth is if you look in in his push on the terrorist says he says it's for a carbon to be brought it very he is only true for carbon it's not going to be true for a carbon but doesn't bring the rashance but when he discusses this is he assumes for that it's not that way he says it's that I saw they bring in so apparently and both assume that right and he applies to as well it's not like but if that's the case why should the carbon be different than any other so says that he found that the inas run and ask this and says he says that you only do when you're afraid that the person is not on his own going to do what needs to be done. So if you see a person doesn't want to put on you're forc somebody doesn't want to divorce his wife and he's supposed to. So there's a concept of actually we force him to do it. But let's say there's something you know for sure the person's going to do. There's no reason to be right. What's the point? You don't have to be for someone to do something that you know he's anyways going to do says the there's no way the are not going to bring the carbon because you're not letting the carbon was brought so that you can't bring the carbon you can't eat the said they're going to bring it says the why they weren't because there was no that the wasn't going to be brought says a classic he says from this I learned You know why? Because at first glance I don't understand the says why not. So let me ask you a question. We know you weren't allowed to eat from the until the carbon was born. What about today? Today there's no today there's no carbon. So what's we learned together? We learned the whole says today it's made together with the right we spoke about all this but the point is is that today the is you can't eat it on but you but by says there was some they were worried about but but the point is is that by Zion Nissan for sure you're allowed to eat from the carbon says what about if they didn't bring the carbon this is classic if they didn't bring the carbon did you have the you're allowed to or no that's when you can't bring the carbon when you can't bring the carbon then you're allowed to eat from the where it's physically possible to bring the carbon Maybe you don't have that. So says I don't know. He says in this understood one way cuz if you're going to tell me even so why is there so that the going to bring the carbon? He said the going to bring it. You don't have to force them. Why? Because they want from the what do you mean by tomorrow you can eat from the what's at stake is one day. for one day for says was so that they're going to bring the maybe they say you know what we're lazy it's it's it's too complicated by I don't know then maybe they're not going to want to do it they're going TO SAY WAIT TILL tomorrow you don't have to talk to understood that there was no you had to bring the carbon and if you didn't bring the carbon it wasn't going to be if it wasn't going to be he just has one arm which he says maybe he's a little bit of a ri just leave you with this and that's it. This is in the end of if you want to look it up. But then he sends you to what he was and over there he brings that in begins. And the asks the cash that why did the Mishna mention a fifth rash and a six rash? The Mishna should have said that Nissan is shorad. And then the Mishna should have said that is for the intimash and they brought which was the mdash. So I have now a sixash. It's a cashra. It should say five. It should say six and the garra says two. Rafes said that. And you want to know why it's not is because the it's true that Nissan was a Russ but it required a and something that requires a you had to do something you had to bring the carbon but being that you had to bring the carbon and he says this is like the most possible he says what's going on would have to be what I Even if they didn't bring the carbon at that point, you'd be able to eat it because of the day. So that the reason the know that you need to bring the carbon that's true you have to bring the carbon. That's if you want to eat it on. But what if you ask him to eat it on Zion? Then look how you don't need the carbon anymore. So if you don't need a carbon anymore then let the maybe which is of course the ideal circumstances when you could bring the carbon then that's when there's something called there's something called all there is is the carbon and the carbon is not didn't it's the it's not a rash. It's not a rash. You don't have you don't have but again regardless why are we speaking about this because we're digressing but the point is is that we had talks about that says that even though ordinarily doesn't say doesn't say that's based on the fact that here it's in the same here it's in two different paras regardless we have a lot more to I'll talk to you tomorrow said even though supposed to be done but it could be done during the day as well as ordinarily that were done were done during the day but the ma mentions two notable exceptions two that were done at night one is the we're learning those right now the other one which permeates all of was was done by one that says that the three that we are one says that's but there's another that says that it's the was done So the Mishna says that for the avoid that have to be done during the day and for the mitzvah what are the mitzvah and then the continues the mentions mentions just like the things that have to be done during the day such as they can't be done by It shouldn't be that things that have to be done at night can't be done during the day. It's true. There are time it could be done during the day. And the mash there were things that were done during the day, the things that done during the night. And just like the things that have to be done can't be done at night. So do things at night can't be done at day. So it's mashma then that can't be done during the day. Now by the way just to interrupt the Garra for a moment with a very important interruption and that is so are you supposed to walk away that at this point the garra thinks that also can't be done during the day right the Mishna said two things were done and said oh only not during the day that says can be done during the day one second also says whoever said that can't be done during the day the of always is that it could be done at night but that you're not allowed to is possible asks and says again but which isn't is of course can be done during the day. When you say akarum can't be done during the day. If you want to run with this as it relates to it would mean the day after. But that's don't walk away from this thinking that just like was that can't be done during the day that means can't be done during the day as well. Of course could be done. But at the bottom we have a steer we have our says and you have a that's no there's a there are things that are the things that are the things you can't do which suggest that the things can't be done during the day if is one of the things it's not so it's really but it's not a because there's two one mission is going like one miss what's this mission So if the was and then became if there's another so then bring the other one the if there isn't another there's nothing else to bring from so then it's okay right because the is yesterday's just now was okay to be brought to so it's okay to bring the which is a carbon but at the same time they told him just be Just don't talk about it. Now, you read the Gumar, it sounds like this is like a covert mission. Don't tell cuz really you're not supposed to do it. Just, you know, don't ask, right? Just don't ask any questions. That's not what means because if it's not something you're allowed to do, then you wouldn't be able to be and do it either. What means is is that of course you're allowed to do it. But at the same time we don't want people to know that the carb is being brought because of people won't really understand and they're going to think that all maybe can be brought. So lest this come to some a situation down the road we tell them to be quiet. But the bottom line is they're very rabbi. So what's if there's an option to bring another one bring another one. If not then just be no there's no option to bring another one. You have to bring this. Because what does it mean you're going to bring another one? You're going to go do again. You can't do again. There's no option to do the again said if you could do another do the other if not said no. There's no option to go ahead and do another one. Why? Cuz you can't do the right now. Now the about to be. So what is it night outside or is it day outside? It's day because you can't be m at night. So it's during the day. Rebi says it's not a problem. just do another said no you can't do another now say whether it's okay to do it's not okay to do our says that you can't do is going this said that you can't do he was going who was he was the rabbi of his father was the gar says that after lost his 24,000 he moved from the north down south and he started all over again with five one of his so said that I heard from was very excited he said this of is very you see that he was going like the from his father his father is What's this? Never said anything about the and the being done during the day. Said something else and the context is so begins with one of the most famous proclam says that we know what so for example are you allowed to carry the on shabas to do the bris. It's not the actual it's a you let a cut a branch off a tree to make an so they should be able to do says yeah as well argues says but not in the first he could have carried these is you couldn't do with but anything that you could have done you're supposed to do with this is said going like what does that mean because says there's a If you keep a head on the stand this says is referring to said the is referring to a very fundamental understand is for sure talking about shabas. What about the safer said the s of the we're jumping from one shabas to another shabas. We're going from the Shabas of the week to the Shabas of nob is referring to the mitzvah of shabas. And even though the test are not mentioned before in the other but ordinarily the the aren't really mentioned in the but over here thera says that are actually mentioned in version of according to what do we why the say that we learn a very important because is always there's no concept of you're never going to be in a field and you're going say you're going to do a mitzvah because I'm about to be you're not doing a mitzvah. There's no concept of and says so we learn from that the only time that you're not going to do is if it's a but if it's then it's okay for example bottom line is what we need from here we have time we'll speak out some great about this later but what we need from from here right now is that is a mitzvah and it's the punch line according. So do the back of the envelope arithmetic. If who holds that? If if that any that you could do before Shabas is not who holds that that's beginning. So what does that mean? That means then that has to be done. It can't be done in the event that this man to do falls out on Shabas. Because if you're going to tell me that could be done before, it can be done after. It's not that it's done then why is it said you want to know that has to be done after can't be done cuz he held like that and he also held like who was his father's who held that the only time something is if it was impossible to do it before Shabas so but but didn't have to be done on Shabas is not ifab What does that mean? That means it has to be done on it has to be done. You're not going to have that. And the gar says it inside if you're going to tell me that could be done even doesn't have to be done very says the laugh they want to ask such a unfortunately we don't have time to talk about but the says he said is what does it have to It's his father's rebi was a which means that was Reb's Reb's Rebi, right? So he was father's Rebi. He was Reb's Reb's Rebi, right? Reb's Reb's Rebi. But the point is is that if that's the case that how could Rebi not hold what Rebels holds? Once we establish that in the world of it's that has to be done as because if it's must be that it has to be done how can argue if argues that means he's arguing with hisb now it's a very bigish because what is not allowed to argue with his first meant to bring with me says clearly that even though that when a person argues with this there's a whole way to do it and you And there's a whole of how it goes down. But it's okay. At the end of the day, you're allowed to argue with your and says that there's many and his classic argument which is Rebi by the way was Reb's father. And it's interesting that the brings us also is talking about a person arguing with his father and there too the says that a person allowed to argue and learning with his father and the guy says the same thing. So had a father-son relationship. They also had a revi relationship. But the bottom line is it's okay. But from this that even though it's okay, it's it's some sort of it's like the says, but it's there's so many that are predicated on. But that's not see here too. Of course, Rebi could argue with I mean there's a few leaps of faith here that Rebi it's even a generation removed but the bottom line is the you see it's not the the right thing to do says again how do you know that was maybe I know it from a we used to bring him she that's oil is a towel on chabas promise you can't carry on chabas so this is a They used to bring him because they were jumping our roofs literally to bring but you see that was a true who was and based on that it should come out but he holds like another take a look at how They used to allow the same to be even though it could have been done the terror is why would they bring because they wanted to do there's a mitzvah of soami he holds like that in theory there's an idea that anything you could have done not on chabas is not but that there is a concept of right there's a big difference between doing is bringing the isli. There's no in of bringing these. You can bring it on the first day, second day, third day, a year before. It doesn't matter when you prepare the the the messer that's going to do the there's no as a result if you keep a hold it's not but over here being that there is an to do the serious even though in theory it's not it's not it's not like that has to be it's not but there is even though he held like this whole works out but at the same time he held it doesn't necessarily have to be if it doesn't have to be why would know that has to be from the fact was just very nicely it's true and he learned it from the you see the used to mak on Friday night because there's an inion of of of even though there was a way to circumvent it and they could have done it before Shabas but he says there it's different because over there when you're bringing carbon there's so much being anyways the being so he felt over there so it's okay to let the just to frivolously allow it to be he didn't think of would be enough of a reason thus must be has to be otherwise it would have But says, "What about why doesn't accept argument?" I hear says, "You're right. Rebi really has to if it has to shake isn't that's all true. Rebi holds that maybe doesn't hold meaning when we when explain he explained with two number one is that has to be done as how do I know that explains it's very simple it's back to the arithmetic because holds two things he holds that is and he holds like that only something that has to be done on shabas is so obviously has to be done is mana because otherwise it wouldn't be faith to rebi holds doesn't have to be doesn't he hold it's his doesn't he hold up that second an is now yeah he holds it the second he doesn't hold the first who said it's maybe it's not you don't have the first is predicated on two it's and only something that has to be done is rebi holds if it's not then you have no that has to be but says could rebi possibly is not and the is going to ask a whole bunch of questions that takes us till the end of the parish of whe during the week they used to start off with three so you see it was brought on chabas maybe doesn't hold it at another three ko three sickles and that was true whether it was brought on chabas and you see it was brought on chabas like reb don't hold that mission either anotherishna it said it Shabas remember the kan they used to talk to the they got the involved they would say shaboom this shabas we should do it so again it was like again maybe it's like grabby now there's two dots here really there shouldn't be two dots here because the is just continuing along so you have to know why there's two dots clearly if it's here the already asks a whole fash who is it's Well, we're learning now is the one that holds that could be done even during the day. It says clearly it's doesn't mean maybe the really is not but the says is that true one final we all know the so the gives a spin to this visually we know the carbon and the carbon are And the reason is because it says and we learn from there you always bring up doesn't matter if doesn't matter if the state of the union is that you always bring and we learn from there is true for all meaning Paris talks mentions almost all of the carbanas that were brought almost all of the but almost all not all what's not mentioned is the carbon and the in it's so how do you know those carbonas that are not included in and it doesn't say how do you know those and those this that this applies even to those two that the doesn't specifically say and they're not even mentioned in par not included in you have a brace over here that says that the and the carbon were what part of the carbon are we discussing are we discussing I imagine the carbon together with even though we spoke out for but of course that's all in the world of it's as if there's really there was no so is taking place. So obviously when we have a that tells me that the to be born on Shabas, we don't mean physically putting it on the says it's so it's so obvious that we mean the preparation of the such as grinding the wheat and being mirac when we say we mean and you see clearly that it's so it's therefore is again another that says says no really when the says that is what it means is that you could be of the chabas and what it means is that you could be on and in fact you can't do the onabas and you can't be on chabas and why would you not be able to do the because that's not something you have to do on chabas and if that's something you have to do on chabas But that's something you do have to do on and that's what we mean holds the if you're going to bake it before once again now it's already subject of so it's for that reason of the was done on of the was done on chab you have no right that exterior was able to be done on chabra says this hold that the baking of the is what The time we learned in the way the was from the that's related to the that existed between the and when the was done with the was done and the was done that's wonderful. What if the and the of the teras was like because it was a bad was a bad so doesn't get what was no if it was then it's not good you need but the bottom line is what gave the it was the maybe the and before it even had to be done because it was never got to do so. So how could you tell me that holds that the was and when we say that was we don't mean the that you could have done before what we mean is that had to be done because if it wasn't it would have been possible you know as if to say that was because even after it was baked you see it relied on the on the two separate things the itself that was related to the and it's for that reason done. But when we say that the was we mean that it created the it was that now these two are together. So for example if the len became ple now you'd have to bring new some of the sugas of some of the difficult sugas of earlier den these things related only once the was Rabi is