Can Minors & Women Be Part of Hataras Nedarim? Reconciling the Rulings of Rebbi Akiva Eiger

Okay, good morning everyone. Brooke my boy dafa shua daf I am has I'm worried stuff I am Zion. I'm worried I'll have. We're discussing the Sugiyama whether you could use pso lamb to be to do hot sauce in the dorm. Where it comes up most often is Arab Rosh Hashanah. On Arab Rosh Hashanah people uh they come to show and they know that one of the avoiders of Arab Rosh Hashanah is to be my turn a dorm. And you get together you gather together a three people together with you and they sit down and they serve as a best in. And you say look uh I can't there's no time to to annunciate all my Nader arm. I don't even remember them. And please I would like to annul them. I didn't realize I don't want to be in milk God by avoid in Nader arm before the Yom Kippur din. And the three guys sitting next to you whether they're tell me that I'm a flag him or they're I may have started a race up and they can't even read the English of the art scroll. They say motor lock motor lock motor lock and you're good to go. All those commitments you made you've conveniently disposed of them discarded them. The only thing is very often you know you're diving in the show and you have your kids sitting next to you. You have one kid who's 13 one kid is 15. And you take those two and you take another guy. Is that a valid best in three of the people are father and sons? Is that a valid court? So the more I says in the dorm that I am Zion so very of your sister may mar. Let me put up on the screen. This is a very important topic and will be brief. So very useful in a manner shall I not be shy of the auction month line the slightest yet this light. But you also thought to say that you could do hot sauce in the dorm on Shabbos with one yacht in month line but not with three head yacht days. Why mission the massage the miss cozy Kadena looks like a court case. I'm really a buyer by said doesn't look like a court case given the sphere line a few of them are mad. I feel like a Korean but I feel like a liar like a massage Medina Kadena. Since we hold you could do hot sauce in the dorm standing not like a court that has to sit. You could use relatives not like a court that they can't be related at night not like a court that has to be during the day. So it doesn't look like a court case. The run says the auction month line in the slightest line mission the massage Kadena says the run the common in done in the Shabbos. We pass again that we do not adjudicate cases on Shabbos over the auction month line but the auction month line I feel the man the sphere line even according to the opinion the my mom summer even according to the opinion that what's a mom someone who has some of my sugar stuff of a funny out of my head like mink or milk of lemons cozy Kadena doesn't look like a din. Why given the sphere line a few of them are mad. The little Dina I'm a barrage barrack the Schwarz [clears throat] how it is the issue of my The more I says that for Diana they need sitting. I feel like a Korean ship so long and then by feel like a liar she ain't a Cheryl in normally Koreans are possible to judge. Normally at night is not kosher. So I must Kadena the ego had carrots over. It's very recognizable that hot sauce in the dorm is not a din. Fine. How do we pass again regarding Korean could Korean be my turn a dorm the ramen pass again in the park of a lot of a love how Korean share in the hot turn a dorm with voice a material the liar in the old man share in a head of a din. Bottom line is we pass again you could use relatives. You could do it at night. You could do it standing. Okay so that's a important hello her. Hot sauce in the dorm you could use relatives. So next time you're you have that guy there there's always a guy in show that's like no no no no no you got to send your kids to the other group you know spread them out. So very nicely tell him that that's true in other religions but in Judaism you could have relatives for hot sauce in the dorm. So he's going to say that's a camera not to do it. Tell him no. It's not a camera not to do it. It's a sir to be mad with on it. It's prohibited to be mad it's connected a lot of her. Fine. But we have an amazing with Kiva girl. Cuz the show camera says in your variation race of us save the game will catch at he had her her you and me show us from what the lock. He's going to say to you three times it's motor I shall we lock I lock a lock a hagel. The color should she I mar the I feel like a mom with Korean over liar like the ramen. Over Shabbos I feel like my show me a small. As long as it's a lot of her her Shabbos okay. So she had her turn a dorm with soy her Shabbos. Fine. Comes with a Kiva girl. With a Kiva girl says okay now that it's not a din and you could use relatives could you use a woman? Could you have a family hot sauce in the dorm you your wife and your kids? Near a lot of me as I did now nobody discusses it. The more I doesn't discuss it. From our camera you would think yes you could why not? You don't need din. Let me give you some more of course but you need each person independently to be a kosher. The fact the fact that the relatives are not inherent disqualifications in the person themselves. I'm a good din. You're a good din. We happen to be related. That's external from from I'm inherently good. You're inherently good. So it says with Kiva girl near a lot of me as I did the issue of my did ask her Korean. They have some of a goofer the royal a din the mission in a Korean they could judge someone who's not a relative of came the liar how also at night they're a worthy din. It's just night. Hello you are going to like a sober go over uh What about kitten in? Same thing. The same cut down near a lot of me as I did the last twice as a leader. The near the din the game cut down possible din with a car. Killer light make a killer the massage in the color kosher a lot of din. The daily shower in the Torah commission of Zion the after that stuff show camera show the cut them in you must lie with this house. Kosher a lot of me come on the slide the hand show about go out service. The Medina I mean and cause I could say he be black camera meal the rice of a color it's the camera had her a lot of stuff with a cup. For a din Medina mom let's have a camera with Medina. Okay. So the first the the first point is issue is pso lamb cut down. Pso lamb What about a cut down that you were lying on cuz I could have a rubber. We know that a kid who's 13 years old we can't be sure that he's actually a god all. Because it could be that he doesn't have stay sorry yet. So So the Kiva girl is saying that according to the tour in Christian [clears throat] mission but that a cut down is 13 who's like a wish to stay sorry. Is kosher a lot of din. That with a Kiva girl says is if he wasn't checked. That such a cut down we say cuz I could have a he brought and the camera were mad camera by color it's or the like or by din a um What do you mean by din a mouse? By din a mouse they were not mad camera. But if you checked and he did not bring stay sorry that he can't din. The pass again on some the issue of pso lamb a lot of din because of a stay sorry of Korean a dose. So if we learn out from a dose the same thing would be by a cut down. Uh Now this the with a Kiva girl is saying that for certain things you could rely on what we call cuz I could have a rubber that even though you didn't check if he has stay sorry you could rely on cuz I could have a for certain things that say for dinner or the like. Um I will I'll call after the sour ice. That's only by DNA I will Indian Doran the the streets the Dica. Says Eiger hot another is right so and therefore just like Haliza you can't rely on the rubber you need to do an actual Dica so to another you can't rely on the rubber you would have to use an actual Dica so bottom line is if you want to do another with your 18 year old kid and he's already shaving every other day no problem. You want to do with your 16 year old kid if he has a beard down you know down to the floor you could do it. But if you want to do with your 14 year old kid and the guy and the kid wouldn't know how to turn on a shaver from a light switch he doesn't need to shave he will be another 5 years before he starts to sprout some grass coming out of his chin. You cannot use him for another. Why? But but he's probably but he learned his bar mitzvah parsha no learning is you can rely on the rubber hot another is you cannot rely on the rubber the rubber man by the way therefore he cannot learn parsha obviously everybody knows that he also can't make kiddush for you. Kiddush is for the you do not rely on the rubber only another would we be able to rely on the rubber I'm not sure exactly what his rationale is. Some type of guy he's saying. But that's the bottom line of Eiger that I saw it's very good to know you could use relatives for another. Eiger says you can't use a woman. Eiger says you can't use a cotton and Eiger says you cannot rely on the rubber unless you did Dica. Now I didn't put on the sheets as a contrast that I've used a lot over the years one of the Lakewood. He says that even though Eiger says that we don't rely on the rubber for another room. Another room on is only a minute. It's only a minute. It's definitely better to do but and therefore if you did have 13 year old kid serve as a day and it's good with the evidence okay. Cuz even though another room is right so that's when you know you made another and you're being to the and you're actually using the real process of another room but the way we do is only a minute. His conclusion is of the another room again. It's best to do it the right way and to take someone with the full beard. However Um By the way he also says but don't tell the kid who's 13 okay go be my another with some other kids that are also 13. Cuz it's not going to help him cuz he might be a god and the other kids sitting on the best then are not going to be a day long. But if it's too much of a you could be make all he says he brings from of Sternbach that another room is only to be on toy voice. Cuz you're not another. Um Okay. Here's a question that I want to bring to your attention. >> [snorts] >> It's somewhat of a steer Eiger and you can think about this. And Eiger and his second on your idea he got a very interesting Isla. The was you have a guy who's new to the city and he doesn't he has a personal another that he needs to be matter. >> [snorts] >> He's not really comfortable telling anybody about it to be matter it so he's stuck cuz if you if you don't tell them they can't be matter it. People think okay I'll just do like Dica another room that doesn't really work for an actual another you have to say what it is. So he has one guy in the city that he trusts and but it's a 15 year old kid and the kid is laying a small gun. So he's asking Eiger what what exactly should he do? He can't be my favorite another in front of the others. On the other hand the one who he could be my favorite another is not really he would have to rely on the rubber. And he knows Eiger doesn't rely on the rubber for another room. So Eiger has a file following hub. The dinner you have to be my favorite another is a dinner it's not a dinner right so. So Eiger says get three heavyweight day on them and use the kid as a fourth day on you'll just tell the kid. So the another right so you have three. The being my favorite another you'll add the kid. Here he says I should show a lot like it's a kid another another says he made a big another. The case is I don't like my diet it's at this point it's hard for him to observe it. I am young so I should have he's new to the city but I don't like him but I told you I am a hater. Must I say that he doesn't know who he could trust he like the fire another of name me. The only say I like the show my say I should leave some talk by he has a kid he trust a lot of me he's just concerned for what he heard of my name. Should his heart be the right say that I warned him in my show I don't like him in came and should not smile the that you need someone who is fully mature to do another room. So Eiger says in color is you should take four three with full beards and the fourth will be this kid. And you'll just tell the kid. Because the reason why we don't use kids is because of we don't use the rubber. For another room. The question is have you stayed right so? And you have to check them. So therefore I tell I said get three mature guys. But if you have three mature guys besides this kid so it's good enough with three. And so you don't have to be my favorite another and the rubber you can be my favorite another you can rely on the rubber. It's only a dinner you have to be my favorite another so regarding the you rely on this kid. So the as the following question on Eiger. But it's a best in shock all. Now you have four people on the best then. So best in shock all now the best is not good anymore you can't have even number of day on them you have four day on them now. So are you allowed to have four day on them? Didn't Eiger say you can't use you can't use cotton them because if you can't use them and you can't use cotton them that means it's an actual court case. So if it's an actual court case you can't have four day on them. How do you reconcile the fact that Eiger holds for another room you can't use you can't use cotton them but you could use a best in shock all make up your mind is another dinner or is it not dinner and if it's dinner then you can't use four day on them if it's not dinner you should be able to use cotton them. Um He brings from the Ali bear. The Ali bear says that according to Eiger the day on them have to have a shame day on them. But it doesn't have a dinner of a best then. Meaning you're you're allowed to have four. The question is is this a best then or not if it is a best then then you should not be able to have four. If it's not a best then, you should be able to have a a national market on him. The answer is it's not a best then, but the participants have to have a shame Diane on him. Understand? The look is now the question is is this a court or is this not a court? If it's not a court, why can't you have a woman and and a child? The answer is not a court, but all the people who are adjudicating were doing the procedure have to be able to have a shame Diane and Isha doesn't have a shame Diane. A cotton doesn't have a shame Diane. I if they have to have a shame Diane, why allowed to have four? Because each individual has a shame Diane. It doesn't have to have a shame best then, but the people who are participating have to have a shame Diane. That that that would be the reconciliation between these two talking of Akiva Eiger. So bottom line is for you're allowed to use coins for a toss and a dime. Akiva Eiger says you can't use a woman or a cotton. Akiva Eiger says he cannot rely on Akiva Eiger the rather. However, Akiva Eiger did allow a best then shuckle in a situation where you did not want to tell the regular three Diane on him. So we'll say that it's only Akiva Eiger on that you need to be my fire to another and for a Akiva Eiger and we could rely on the Akiva Eiger the rather. And the way that Akiva Eiger reconciles the different Akiva Eiger Akiva Eiger Eiger is that every participant in Akiva Eiger has to have a shame Diane, but the kind of the the gathering doesn't have to have a shame best then. Okay, thanks for joining. And this was actually it's very nice nice to go here. That's all good. Do they have to be local? No. No. A young kid has to be a mom car, but three do not have to be a mom car. So I don't know what you mean in regarding regarding this Akiva Eiger. Why? >> Because he's saying he's saying that you have to that each one has to be a has to be a pastor. It has to have a shame Diane. A Diane doesn't have to be a mom car. Only if he's Akiva Eiger Akiva Eiger, he has to be a mom car. Okay, that's all good. That's all good. All the best. Have a good day. Recording stopped.