The What It Takes Podcast Ep 12: Car Industry Secrets ft. Rob Farmer

Welcome to another episode of the What It Takes podcast. My name is Tony Krauss, CEO of Blackberg Recruiting. We're here today with Rob Farmer. >> Hello. Good day. >> Yeah, we're here at the Innovate Summit in Owensboro, Kentucky. I fig I'll sneak you away from the room for a few for a little bit. >> Happy to be here enjoying Owensboro, particularly that waterfront. Very beautiful. >> Stunning. Um Rob is the chief market >> market intelligence officer >> at Nissan Corporation. >> Yes. I recently departed Nissan, but yes. >> Okay. Very exciting. >> Previously at General Motors, but yes. >> So you you've been in the auto industry for General Motors. I saw you on LinkedIn. General Roas and then Nissan a combined of about 25 years. >> Yes. >> So I'd love to first of all, welcome to the podcast. >> Thank you. >> And second of all, I want to go into that story what it was like to become one of the top people in leadership at Nissan, which is a multi-billion dollar company across the world. I'll got you into the world of intelligence analytics. First of all, no, scratch that. What is your day-to-day when you were still at Nissan? What did your day-to-day look like? >> Yeah, so my day-to-day pretty much looked like um a couple of different things. Uh we had a whole variety of projects that we would work on associated with the company's basically mission. Uh right now Nissan is very very involved in like so many other companies in reducing the time that it takes to get products to market. So they've been very public about the fact that it takes you know maybe 60 months to make a car and they want to get that down to 30 >> 5 years to build a car. >> 5 years they want >> to build or from design? >> From design. >> Oh. So start to finish from concept >> from idea to road. >> Idea to road. See 5 years. >> Yes. And that's pretty standard if not so much the Chinese who have really innovated in that space and have gotten that number down to about like 18 months in the best cases. >> So so many companies are now waking up to they've really got to reduce that um development time that it takes to get a car from idea to road. And of course over the course of the last several years that industry is being massively disrupted because of electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles and softwaredefed vehicles. >> Are those faster to manufacture from idea to road? >> Not necessarily. Um once you know how to do them as an organization, you can definitely develop some economies of scale. But the first time you do it, it isn't necessarily easier >> really. So yeah, and that's one of the reasons why the Chinese are doing so well at development right now is because they've got um more experience uh getting so many electric vehicles at scale at high volumes into the market. Whereas in the US or most development markets, that's Tesla that's really doing that uh in any mass scale. Everybody else is still catching up. >> As an outsider, why not, especially someone who does recruitment, why not hire the people who are doing it in China, bring them out to Nissan? Well, um there certainly is some of that happening when it can. Uh the issue there is of course uh visas and you know >> huge barriers. >> Yeah. And and so that becomes very uh problematic very quickly. Um of course you know start with the executive ranks uh bring in the people who know how to do that. Um you're also seeing a lot of uh switching in terms of some of the companies like Tesla who have people moving from uh you know that organization to more traditional car companies. You've also got Google and Whimo and battery companies uh autonomous vehicle companies as well. So there's there's a lot of changing happening um in the executive ranks in terms of who knows how to do what and what skills are required to make some of these newer uh concepts. >> Oh wow. And >> in your last role at Nissan before you left, how many direct reports? Any direct reports? >> I managed a team of about 50 people. >> 50. >> Yep. And that was based between uh mostly based in Nashville where our America's headquarters is, but we also had a team in Canada, Brazil, and Mexico. >> Why were these teams around the world? >> Uh we've got uh operations in many many countries uh around the world. Um obviously we've got a big big presence in Japan. Uh but the intelligence departments >> yeah the intelligence departments tend to be based in the headquarters of each of the regional function. So we had one in Paris that managed Europe and uh the Middle East uh the one in Nashville and then also a team in Japan as well. >> Very cool. >> Then a few other sort of sub teams around the world some of the larger markets. >> Wow. Were you responsible for hiring any of these 50 people? >> Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um what were some of the challenges you had hiring people in a different culture, different different country? >> Yeah, >> different continent. >> I I would actually say that those challenges were kind of small actually. Um the bigger challenges that I faced uh were related to basically changes in the industry. Um market research as a discipline is changing pretty rapidly. Uh like so many other functions are in the a lot of this has to do with AI. A lot of this has to do with just data science. Uh but basically in the past we were able to recruit people who had experience in traditional market research functions, things like surveys, focus groups kinds of projects, data analysis, >> research report writing kinds of skills. Whereas now what we're looking for tends to be someone who can do all of that and then also data analytics, data science, Python programming, building dashboards in in Tableau. Is it possible? Yes, it's possible two ways. Um and we were doing experiments with both of these. Number one, we were trying to upscale our existing teams. So how we did that was we partnered with Vanderbilt University. >> Okay. Nashville's based Nissan's based in Nashville. So is Vanderbilt. So we've been able to work with them and bring sort of their data science MBA curriculum into some of the Nissan employees. And some of the employees were very eager and motivated to learn it. Uh some of the people were eager and motivated but couldn't actually do it. And then some of the people were you know I I I can't right now. I'm busy. I'm happy to continue to be a traditional researcher. just depended on the person and the person's profile. Uh, also that relationship with Vanderbilt yielded um interns. It yielded um practicum that we would work on with the students where students would come into Nissan and run one of Nissan's projects. That was very very successful. So we we didn't know it at the time. We're just kind of throwing a lot of different ideas at the wall, but partnering with the university led to upskilling of the team as well as recruiting new students um out of the >> that's incredible >> program as well. So that was that was pretty pretty interesting as well. Also, there's a lot of just um sort of natural movement uh in the workforce. um you know data science when it started was very much people straight from the university and then they all wanted to go to Google and Apple and Right. >> Yes. Yes. Exactly. Um Facebook uh but now you're starting to see more and more people with more and more of those skills inherent in companies and uh so then you know those people become very very marketable, very lucrative very quickly. So, if there's someone out there that's got those skills, uh there's lots of big employers who are very interested in hiring that kind of talent. >> For those employees, >> that weren't really excited about upskilling and learning AI, >> how long do you think it's going to take for them? Are they ever going to be let go? And how long do you think it's going to be take for them to be let go? >> I mean, I think it's going to be a long time, quite honestly. Um but yeah, I mean I would say I don't know 10 years, 20 years. There's in in my discipline, market research, there's always going to be a place for what we used to call primary research. There's always going to be things that need to be researched that nobody else is researching. That number is going to reduce. That number is going to get down. Um but when you can uh study uh whatever topic you need to study based on existing research in whatever form, you're going to mine that as deeply as robustly as completely as you can and then whatever questions you have left, you're going to go to primary research. So there's going to be a role for those people >> for for a long time. But there's no question that the mix of traditional versus more modern is going to change in favor of the more modern. So there's a place for there's a place for everybody for the foreseeable future. >> People would say that the more modern crowd who are upskilling and learning all the new tools can be significantly more efficient. >> Yes. >> They do a lot more a lot faster. >> Yes. >> So then the people who are more traditional >> might potentially become redundant. I I I think that is a danger again not today but um over time it would be um a concern to me uh if someone was only able to operate in that space. But again this is kind of the existential question that many of us are facing right um if you believe Bill Gates you know his comments is that AI is going to be most disruptive to uh healthcare and the education system. Okay, I I I assume he knows what he's talking about. Uh but if you work in education or in healthcare, does that mean you don't have a job? Well, no. Right. >> So, what is it you have to do? So, and I mean I think every profession, some more than most, I think market research more than most, probably has more dangers in terms of job security. >> But at the same time, all you can control is modernizing your skills. So why not get a little curious, conduct some experiments, >> wow, >> do a little learning, do a little unlearning, do a little relearning, and get yourself on the track to where this is going and modernize yourself. I think everyone is is going through that right now. Um, it's not easy. It's not going to be easy. That's very uncertain, but have a little fun with it. What would you re um what would you recommend for somebody who is not excited or to learn all these new tools, AI, whatnot? >> Mhm. >> Are they going to be out of job in 10 years? >> Yeah. Um I I can let me share with you what I did. Okay. I have a lot of stuff to read. Okay. I can't read everything that I'm supposed to read as part of my job. >> Okay. And when co-pilot came out after Chad GPT, it had this really great function where you could upload a report and it could summarize it for you. Well, guess what I did? All those reports that for whatever reason I was unmotivated to read or disinterested to read or >> right >> often times it was just too long. Sometimes it was like a long 50page PowerPoint that I just didn't have time to read. >> Is this common stuff that your team came to you with reports? >> Yes, absolutely. And so I would just upload it into co-pilot. It would get me a summary, you know, I would get 80% of the content in 20% of the time, >> right? >> And I would run with that. That was enough. And so I immediately got this time-saving benefit uh from use of these tools, right? >> Why would you not embrace that time-saving benefit? So, so start with an immediate problem that you have and then from there you can scale up to more and more interesting things. When I was with Nissan, we started doing some great experiments with uh for example synthetic profiles where uh instead of coming up with a profile based on uh actual human consumers that you would research, you would develop a profile using AI. So >> like normal focus groups. >> Yeah. So in the old days what we do is we I'll give you a really great example that I've talked about at some length is um SUV buyers who have large dogs. Okay. There's a lot of SUV buyers who have large dogs. Okay. In the old days, by old days I mean a year ago, we would go out and we would do a survey or a focus group with, you know, SUV owners that had dogs. We talk to them and they'd say, "Okay, they like to go to McDonald's and get dog treats. They like to take their dogs for >> uh long vacations. They like their dogs to stay in hotels." Now, you can find that out through AI, what kind of dog they have, what kind of use cases they have with the dog, where they take the dog, and SUV. And so you can build a uh synthetic profile around SUV pet parents. And then rather than actually taking the time and the energy and the money to go and talk to human SUV pet parents, you can talk to the AI twin of the SUV pet parent and ask it a bunch of questions. It's not a real person. News flash. Uh it may not be 100% accurate, but again, does it get you 80% with 20% of the resources? >> Yeah. So is is at least 80% of the information coming out of this synthetic profile accurate? >> As near as we can tell, yes. And we've done some studies to try and replicate the results, both uh AI versus nonI. And you get, you know, very early results. I work with uh a lot of uh external uh firms. One firm in particular, Algo Verde that I was working with was actually doing a a fairly large scale scientific study to show the results of uh synthetic profile twins versus uh survey based >> offline twins was was was comparable. Again, >> if it's more efficient and 80% accuracy. >> Yes. >> And super fast. >> Yeah. Yeah. Why would you >> right >> why would you not do it? But again it's it's unlearning. Back to this idea >> unlearning. Tell tell the viewers what unlearning is. >> Unlearning is just this idea that you know we all develop our expertise in the world and our profession particularly and the world is changing so quickly. Technology is changing so quickly that uh in order to keep up with that technology uh focusing too exclusively on your expertise may get you into trouble. Keep yourself flexible. keep yourself open to new ideas, >> well grounded >> and well grounded and and relearn maybe unlearn old bad habits and replace them with with new habits. That idea >> and so this whole idea of AI replacing market research is very very much uh along these lines of what you need to do to >> wow >> unlearn at the end of the day you're still studying consumers. You're still trying to make a business that is consumer centric as possible giving the consumer the best experience possible. You're just doing it in a different way. >> So, um, but yeah, it's a different skill. >> Are you spending between 20 and $30,000 a year on health insurance for you and your family? I use United Refal Health Share. For me and my family, we're spending $500 a month on our premium. 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United Rafua Health Share showed me how to talk to the hospital, ask them the right questions, um negotiate with the hospital. Very good stuff. Saves a lot of money. I absolutely recommend you reaching out to them and learning if it's the right fit for you. All right. So, we had different um uh different dedicated teams. So, we had one group who was responsible for all of the products. So, basically all of the products that were coming out in the future. uh how successful all the products were, what kind of customers each of those products had. That was one team >> that were they were tracking that information all the time. >> All the time. Yes. Okay. >> We had another team that was focused on basically the advertising communications. How successful were the ads at delivering the message that we needed Nissan customers to get. >> On that, assuming they were tracking billboards and TV ads and social, >> how do you track a billboard? Well, I I won't talk so much about billboard because uh we don't necessarily do a lot of billboard. Most of the work we do is television advertising and digital advertising. >> So, that's easier to track. >> Yes. And we we track that uh very very intently. Uh before anything errors, uh we run it through testing with consumers to make sure that they're picking up on the message, to make sure the message is relevant, to make sure they know the ad is for, uh Nissan. Uh companies, including Nissan, often get what we call misattributed, wherein you see an ad, it's for Nissan, but you think it's for Toyota or Honda or some other >> company. You want to make sure that people watch those ads and understand, oh no, that's a Nissan ad. So that's a whole um >> but from idea of a marketing >> piece till actually it's posted yes >> can take a long time >> um couple of months you know it depends you know first you have to decide what it is you want to say what it is you want to feature uh how you want to talk about it is it within the confines of what your brand uh intends to be and every one of the cars is trying to tell it slightly different version, you know, of the story depending on who's going to buy the car and what the car is and the type of customer for the car. >> And then of course you need time to shoot the commercial and edit the commercial and all test it. >> Um, so yeah, but generally speaking, it's it's it's it feels pretty fast for those of us that work in that space. We wish we had more time to do it. >> What was Nissan spending a year on marketing? Oh, the U, this is publicly reported, but the US spends uh this year spent about a billion dollars. A >> billion dollars on marketing on marketing. >> Wow. >> Broadly speaking. >> So, you had a team tracking uh analytics on marketing spent, >> one on products. Okay. >> Uh we had another team that was focused on dealerships. >> Uh what were they tracking with? >> A lot of it is customer satisfaction. How happy are the customers? But a lot of it is also um are uh the dealers selling the cars in the way that we want the car sold. Are they explaining certain features? One of the key challenges in the car business right now is there's a lot of technology on cars that not everybody understands and to get the full benefit of some of these technologies, it's really important that dealers take the time to explain how to use it to customers. So for example, um Nissan was really focused on its propilot system. >> What is that? ProPilot is an advanced cruise control system. >> Okay. I've heard of that. >> You might want to consider it kind of one of the um stepping stones to autonomous drive, >> right? >> Um >> stay in lane. >> Exactly. You know, what we call lane keep assist. Um it it's pretty cool technology. I very much enjoy uh particularly I've got a long drive back to Nashville from Owensboro later today and I am going to very much enjoy uh that ProPilot turn the car and it helps me >> you know merge lanes and stay in the lane and stay in the center of the lane and all that. So it's a great great technology. >> So one team was tracking >> Yep. >> dealerships customer >> dealerships. Uh we've got another group that did all the forecasting. So how many vehicles are going to sell uh in what segments in the future? We had another team that was focused on the long-term trend um view of the future. So things like uh more and more people are having children at a later age. Uh more and more people are having one child, more and more people are having multiple dogs and one child. Uh so what do all these things mean for uh the car business? Wow. >> That was one team. So I I think I hit >> all of them. Um and then of course we had the team in Canada and the team in Mexico and the team in Brazil. >> That's wild. >> Yeah. >> Um what were some of the coolest things that you and your team worked on that you found out through doing research and analytics? Some of the coolest things people wouldn't like even think about. >> Yeah. I think one of my favorite stories there is we have the Nissan Arya which is our most recent electric vehicle and I did a lot of work um on that product and I am about 6'3 and when I first saw the Arya physically my first reaction was oh it's too small I'm not going to be able to fit inside it >> okay >> and then I got inside an Arya and I would encourage all of your viewers to get inside an AR to have this experience You don't need all of that room for wires and engines. And the space that it takes for batteries is actually a much smaller amount of space required. So you get inside the area and even though it has a certain physical exterior size on the inside it feels like a full size bigger. And for me to go from in a matter of seconds, oh, that vehicle is too small for my large frame to, wow, there's all this room in this car and it feels great and I've got all this room for my legs and all this room for my stuff. Um, that's a pretty amazing experience. You know, if you think of Tesla and the frunk, the front trunk, you know, it's a similar thing. There's no engine, right? >> So, they've got that extra room. So, what do you use for that uh for that room? You put a storage space in there. Now, actually, the Tesla frunk, >> again, this is also an interesting learning. It's actually pretty unusable for most people, >> but it's not that big. It's >> not that big. It's not that big. And it's also difficult to to open. >> You see open? >> Uh, just in terms of its size and the way you have to bend to get it, and it's kind of a weird angle really. >> Uh, and then you get it open and it's it's it's not very usable. >> Where's the Does the Arya have a frunk? >> No, the AR does not have a frunk. >> Interesting point there. We chose not to put a frunk. >> Why? >> Well, because Tesla owns the frunk. >> They What does that mean? They own it. >> It's It's a brand thing for them. >> But it's not they physically own it. Like you're allowed to make a >> frunk. Yeah. Yeah. It it differentiates a Tesla in in a lot of ways. And >> so is the trunk big in the AR? >> Yeah. Yeah. No, there there's plenty plenty of room in the trunk space. Uh >> wow. >> For the AR, but but one vehicle that does it really really well is the F-150 Lightning. uh which is a big truck and it's got a big area in the frunk. And if you think about it, if you're a truck owner, you want to take that truck to the airport on a rainy day. Where do you put your luggage? Well, that's solved in the frunk. Now, >> how much space does the F-150 Lightning have in the front? >> This is Yeah. Yeah. You can fit Yeah, you can fit several suitcases in the front. >> Several suitcases? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, think about it. The >> It's the size of a regular trunk. >> Oh, well, it's I'm sure it is, if not if not larger. Because if you think about the size of an F-150 truck, >> right? >> And then all of a sudden all that space that held that great big engine, suddenly you because the F-150 truck looks >> batteries underneath, right? >> Batteries underneath. >> It's a bed. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so, so my point is there there's a lot of really interesting things that engineers can do with size and battery placement that benefits in space. Interesting uses of space that weren't allowable in the pre-elect electric vehicle days. >> Now, what's happening with electric vehicles? That's also been really fascinating. You know, we went through this phase where the whole industry kind of reoriented itself around electric vehicles. And now some of that, I don't think that the long-term trajectory has changed, but some of that has been uh more refocused given economic times, given tariffs, given Chinese, given Tesla, all of that. Uh and also infrastructure issues, charging stations. Uh it's, you know, a lot of consumers feel like it's inconvenient. But that whole transition from gas vehicles to electric vehicles for people who are market researchers has been really fascinating to study because it's a whole it's a whole ecosystem of behavior change that didn't exist prior to >> didn't exist basically prior to 2020 or so. >> Right. Jaguar fully rebranded to only electric. >> Yes. Yes. Many companies are doing that. >> Fully electric like getting rid of all their gas cars. >> Yes. >> Which ones? >> Yes. Well, I mean, the Chinese I mean, >> really? >> Oh, yeah. >> I I don't know. >> It It's interesting if you look outside uh the US um in in some markets and how they're choosing to go about that. Yeah. They're really choosing to go all electric. Um >> I think in 1015 years it will be someone will have a very hard time finding >> Yeah. >> um a gas car. >> Yeah. I think you're right. The question for me there is in the next five uh >> gas stations. Well, well, even before you get there, hybrid vehicles. So, right now there more and more consumers here are going to hybrid vehicles. There's also plug-in hybrid vehicles which are emerging. Um, and I think that at least in the US case, that's going to be the story for the next 5 years or so, >> right? >> Um, but beyond that, what is the adoption rate for electric vehicles? >> Listen, as more people get vehicles, I think they're going to build more charging stations and more adaptability. You know, it would be really cool if the roads were charging stations. Sort of like if you put your phone on your desk, Mac safe. >> It can charge when you're sitting at a red light. >> If it can charge while you're sitting there, >> while underneath the roads, I think it's a cool idea. >> It is a cool idea. >> I don't know if it's feasible. >> Well, but that that's just it. The question is, you know, I'm sure it is feasible. Uh, but who pays for it, right? >> Who puts it there? >> It's like maybe paying for the meter parking, >> you know. Do you put it at all the lights or do you put it at the just the lights in New York and California? traffic. >> You know, the Texas people not want that installed in the road. How long does it take to rip up the roads and put that padding? You know, I mean, it it's really complicated on the ground. Um, and we we'll find out, won't we? >> Did um how how does a car go from idea to road and what was your involvement like? >> Yes. >> What's step one? Okay. CEO says we need a new style car. Is that what happens? Well, it really all starts with the market and understanding the market. Um, so and what I mean by that is what are we seeing in the customer trend space and where >> yes where strategically uh do we want to be known for? Do we want to have SUVs? Do we want to have cars? Do we want to have electric vehicles? Do we want to have used vehicles? There's lots of different angles you could go to do this. Uh so once you decide uh on sort of what I like to think of as the body type and size >> uh then you uh begin to develop a plan uh engineering gets involved uh the R&D community gets involved the manufacturing community gets involved and you all begin to work together to figure out what that looks like. >> It's a lot of project >> it's a lot and that's why it takes 60 months because you've got so many people. You've got to get your supply chain involved. You got to make sure that you're getting the cobalt and the lithium and the for for the battery. You got to make sure you're getting the steering wheels. You got to make sure you're getting the leather. You you know, so it's it's a lot of a lot of moving pieces. But every um car company has a development process, a cadence process that they follow uh to dictate how these different pieces come together. And of course, they also have financial goals uh that they have to follow and financial metrics that they have to hit. So they go through this process you know step by step the market research community gets involved um at at several points you know first I mentioned you know there's a sort of sizing aspect >> so it starts with you it I mean it it it there's a whole group of people involved but yes the market research community is always involved >> and then after you sort of decide on where you're going then you start to look at well you know um what kind of message do we want this car have? How do we want this car to be differentiated from every other one >> design-wise or marketing wise? >> Both design and marketing. And they really should go together cuz if you think about it right now, there's a million small SUVs that you can choose from, right? >> You know, and and if everybody has the same car, how do they stand out, right? >> That's a real problem. So, companies have to work really really hard to differentiate themselves in this very >> very competitive marketplace. Uh I'll give you one example of um one that I worked on recently that I think was really really successful was uh Nissan's new Morano uh which is slightly larger and that was a vehicle that we specifically targeted toward um families. It had a buyer that was a little bit older uh had a buyer that was a little bit more female, right? >> And that was not a vehicle where it was an off-road SUV. That was a vehicle that was very much a comfortable SUV that was large that you used while traveling. So, I like to think of it as the cool grandpar mobile. Okay. So, grandma and grandpa took the two kids to >> Dollywood Disneyland, you know, for the weekend and they drove there, you know, they didn't fly there. >> Uh, and it's very comfortable for that purpose. And, you know, you're not driving off road, >> you know, you're not going to Moab in that car. I mean, maybe you are, but but you're not driving in the canyon in it. >> Um, you know, but but so that that's one way that we differentiated one product, but there's a million examples of different approaches you could follow. And of course, the engineers have to work with the marketing folks to make sure that, okay, what kind of features do cool grandparents want? What kind of features do uh older mothers want, for example? Um, you could go the other direction. what kind of features do techy young males want? That that's a whole other category and a whole other level of technology and engineering that's required. So, um, so you've got to you've got to put all that in the vehicle. And so then once all that comes together, eventually there's a design depending on the manufacturer. They have different approaches to the design. Some do a lot of design research. Do you like AB testing kind of thing? Do you like design A? Do you like design B? Uh and then eventually it all comes together and you start to look at you know the vehicle the way it's differentiated the price the design uh the whole the whole feature and then you begin to understand is this vehicle going to be how competitive is it going to be how many units is it going to sell >> right that's forecasting team >> that's the forecasting team >> and then you then you begin to know with a pretty pretty high degree of accuracy >> how many units this thing is going to going to sell and then you got to then you got to start testing the marketing campaign and making sure that your massaging seats >> sell well among yoga instructors in California, for example. >> Right. >> I hope you're enjoying today's podcast. Today's episode is sponsored by Blackbird Recruiting. >> Chad GPT, what do you think about Blackbird Recruiting? >> Blackbird Recruiting, the team that finds you the right people so you can stop wasting time on resumes that look like they were written by someone's dog. If you're a business owner struggling to find top talent, let Blackbird do the heavy lifting. They'll help you find candidates who actually get it. Visit blackbirdrecruiting.com and let them take your hiring game to new heights. >> You heard it here first. Enjoy the rest of the episode. >> How many different cars does Nissan have? >> I across the globe, I think the number is 67. >> Currently in the US, it's Don't quote me on this, but it's probably 10. 10. >> 10 or maybe 12. Some some somewhere in that. >> What would you say is your favorite? >> I really I've got a couple of favorites. I really love as far as electric vehicles. The AR is a really good product for for what it is and for all the reasons I've already said. >> I'm also a big fan of our Rogue, which is our our our bestseller. >> Rogue for me is great uh because it's a good size. It's a good jack of all trades car. It's a good uh balance of like SUV capability. You know, I know it can get me through um muddy terrain or rainy terrain or snowy terrain. Um but at the same time, I don't off-road, >> right, >> with it. It's got >> it's not massive. >> And it's not massively huge >> like a Pathfinder. >> Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, those are those are my two favorites is the Arya and the in and the row of Nissan. What's the process for discontinuing a vehicle? >> Oh, >> and how does that come about? What's the decision-making process? What are they looking at to see? It's time. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. It depends. Um sometimes uh products just age and they just get old and it gets to the point where uh the technology is old and it's not profitable to continue making it. You know, I think a great example there right now is sports cars. What is the future of small manual transmission two-seater sports cars? um the >> yeah I mean that that's a market that it's there people love those cars uh they've got a huge fan base >> but it they don't sell as many units as a you know midsize SUV >> more >> so yeah so so that's the challenge uh the manufacturers have also sometimes you get a situation where companies decide to exit segments so Nissan made the Nissan Titan which was a full-size truck >> right >> uh Nissan spent a lot of money uh I spent a lot of energy trying to understand full-size truck owners and getting them to come to Nissan. And after a very valiant effort to try and crack that market, uh ultimately we couldn't do it uh with a degree of financial uh acumen that we desired. So, we decided to uh exit that segment. >> Well, sometimes segments die. For example, minivan. Um you go back 10 years, you know, there's I think every brand had a minivan entry. Now I think you got the Chrysler Pacifica and the Kia Carnival and took >> the Odyssey on the Odyssey and that's it. But you know back in the old days Ford had one and GM had one, Nissan had one and and now you took four. >> So sometimes >> while that wasn't >> No, it wasn't the Cube was >> I have a I have a confession. The Cube was a small SUV. >> Nissan's minivan was the Quest. >> Quest. Sorry. Um, no, the Cuba Cube that that was a really fun cool car. Um, I I concede it was not our most beautiful car, but >> it reminds me of the I think it was the similar to the Ford Flex. >> Yeah. Yeah. But that that kind of really small uh SUV was kind of invogue there for a little while. The the Cube was great because >> it had so much visibility. You could >> What do you mean? It had a very very wide uh uh >> windows >> dashboard and large windows on the side. And so like driving it I thought it was a great experience because you could see so much of the car. Of course people thought I looked ridiculous driving it which was one of its problems. But uh it had it had a certain charm and a certain appeal and a certain quirkiness uh for its for its time that I thought was admirable. But again that was a car it it didn't sell in large numbers in this country. It it sold very well in Japan though. So, Japan. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> China's all electric already. >> Uh, it's not all electric, but uh, China's definitely headed in that direction. >> What about Japan? >> Nope. Japan still has uh Japan is also electrifying quickly, but they still have a large portion. >> You know, it's very interesting in the Jewish Orthodox community. >> Yeah. >> People have large families. >> Yeah. >> Almost every family drives a May. >> Yeah. >> So, it's very popular. >> Not large SUVs. If you can afford to spend $1,000 a month, >> Yeah. >> on a, you know, a Ford Expedition, >> Yeah. >> or, you know, Cadillac or Suburban, fine. >> But you can get many 4500 bucks. Okay. The Odyssey >> just makes sense. >> I've I've worked over the years in a number of different manufacturers. >> All right. about uh large family mover vehicles and uh I have there's a market there, >> right? And not enough to make new vehicles specifically for them, is there? >> Well, it depends on how much money you want to make and how many you can sell, right? >> Um and and whether or not you can advertise, I'll use the word advertise an existing platform. There are some companies out there that make vans, commercial vans, uh, for other purposes. Could you make one that could be sold at local dealerships for large families? That was >> and also the cost is a very big factor. >> It's a very big factor. Um, but I've looked at that a number of times for >> right >> multiple >> right >> multiple OEMs. You can probably guess which one. Um but there's it is not a it is not a small number of people with large families that need a large people carrier product. >> Right. So >> in in the Jewish community it's uh finances is has been a crazy topic. >> Sure. >> People are spending money on extravagant wedding. So most of the time we pay for private school. >> Uhhuh. >> And people can spend 10 15 grand a year per child. This is elementary, middle school, high school. Life gets very expensive. Then you're maring off your kids. People spend 50, 80 grand, 100 grand to marry over a child and this is just the boy side and the girl side also. >> So recently and people really struggle a lot of people going into credit card debt. So in the community people was really talking about how to make beautiful weddings on a budget for 25 grand >> and buying used cars instead of leasing. A lot of people lease leasing is a huge market. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um but leasing after three years car is not yours anymore. You didn't build it up any equity in the vehicle. a lot of people talking about, you know, um buying used cars, minivans is a very big thing. >> Well, this brings me to another topic which uh and I have not been successful at cracking this for any of the car companies I've worked for, but this idea of value for the money. Uh there is no question that cars have gotten more expensive. And I'm and I'm not just talking about inflation. That certainly hasn't helped. But electric vehicles are more expensive too to buy. And so the price of vehicles we've seen consistently go up. Uh and you've also seen the segments that car companies compete in, they're moving away from cars. They're moving away from small cars and they're moving into larger and larger segments. >> Interesting. >> So something's going to break there at some point in time. >> Um because not everybody can afford a car. Well, who's been the beneficiary of that? Well, the used market. There's a lot of really good used cars that are available and there's so many companies out there. Uh I look to some very formidable companies uh like Enterprise Rena Car >> Enterprise >> uh where you know they understand very very well the worth of a car. They rent it for a further you know they buy it from the OEM they rent it for a period of time and then they sell it you know in in the used car market. So, famously in the luxury car market, uh, some of the OEMs make more money off their used cars than they do their new cars. >> Uh, so that's a whole thing. And I've always argued that the OEMs that I've worked for probably could have paid more attention to used cars or paid more attention to some kind of a value strategy. But >> that I was not successful in getting them to do that. But that's something that value is a huge challenge for the consumer buying public >> right >> in New York City now uh I mean not now a few months ago over the last year or two the governor was working in Manhattan if you pass certain streets >> yes >> certainest congestion to >> um so a lot of people were taking different routes so I was always wondering like in very busy cities where cars are not always a great option coming out with just obviously it's not something you across the country cuz nobody's going to use it in Nashville >> or in Kentucky, but say Manhattan or any other big city, a small vehicle or scooters or motorcycles. I think if I need to go into Manhattan, I'm taking my motorcycle if I can, whether permitting. >> Mhm. >> The traffic, parking is a breeze, you know. >> Well, one of the things that you're going to see over the course of the next 10 years is what I will call a bifurcation of the vehicle market. >> Interesting. And that's happening because of legislation. So there are a group of states, 15 states that they call zero emission states that states we call them. >> And basically California, Washington, New York, Illinois, uh some of these more blueleaning states where if the vehicles are >> blue leaning, blue, >> yes, blue states, blue states, uh where they're required to meet certain emission requirements and if they don't, the OM have penalties. Um and then there's other states you can easily imagine but Texas Florida that don't have that level of um admissions. So there's state level requirements and then there's federal requirements. So, as more and more manufacturers have both uh electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles and internal combustion engine vehicles, you're going to start to see more and more of the internal combustion engine vehicles go to certain states and more and more of the electric vehicles go to other states. So when you go to buy a say Nissan in California, what you can buy from Nissan may be different in California than what you can buy from Nissan in say Texas. >> Interesting. >> And that's going to happen across the board of some. So So in in a strange way, again, I I spent a lot of time in in living and working in Europe. >> The US is going to be more like Europe in in that sense in terms of what you can buy is dictated by where you are. And there's a lot of ramifications for that that that these car companies are going to be working through. For example, advertising, you're going to be having to run different advertising in different states, which happens already. So, that can be worked through, but it's just going to look very different um geographically. So, >> um I wanted to ask you, you I mean, you've built a very successful career. You said you recently left Nissan. Um what advice would you give to somebody who wants to I mean, you were the How many levels were there at Nissan? >> Many. I don't even I don't don't even know. Uh >> many probably 20. I don't know. >> Well, you were the chief information analytics officer. >> Market intelligence. >> Yeah. >> What advice would you give to somebody starting their career? >> I would say uh a couple of things. I would say number one um follow your passion but with flexibility. Okay. >> Can you elaborate on that? >> Yes, I can elaborate on that. So uh I think many people emerge from say a university with a certain kind of academic training and a desire to embark on a particular field of study. So engineering or design or science >> in my case it was market research. And I loved that and that served me very very well. Um, but as time goes by and you want to move into management, which I did, uh, then you move into management and you spend a lot of time learning how to manage other people. Um, you need to start asking yourself, do you want to stay in that sort of specialty area or do you want to move more broadly into another general area? Um, and I chose to stay in my specialty area, but there's a part of me that always kind of wondered, h, should I should I have gone general? And you've got to time that correctly because if you don't if you wait too long, um, it gets too late, >> right? Um so so if you so use those first years of your career to really explore and really own your passion but keep open especially around the time that it might be appropriate for you to start moving into management be be open to start moving into other things. I also think that's going to accelerate when you look at how every single function is being disrupted by AI right now. some of those barriers are gonna fall down probably at least a little bit you know so if you come into it from say an engineering perspective or design perspective or an accounting perspective or finance perspective some parts of some of that are going to decrease and I think in a lot of ways leadership is still going to be required so the faster you get into management the more you learn about leadership if you choose that and and again it's not for everybody and to some extent you can't choose it. It happens or it doesn't. Um but just be open to that. So especially if you're I would say between 30 and 40 I'll be specific on age that that's the time to your specialty and your leadership skills if if it's going to happen they need to start intersecting >> at that point really >> roughly >> about 10 years into your career. >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. >> Very interesting. >> Yeah. Um, sometimes I like to ask my guests and this is you don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable. What were they making earning wise at different points in their career >> and when they got a promotion it bumped up this much or when going for a raise? Is that something you feel comfortable talking about? If not, I could take it out. No, I I would say what I would say there is and again every company is kind of different, but the thing that I wish I would have known is >> raises are about 10% increase in I sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. But that that's kind of a good >> expectation, right? >> Kind of I I shouldn't say raise promotion. When you get a promotion, it's about a 10% increase. >> Raise is less, right? >> Yeah. Raises raises, you know, it varies by the year, but I mean raises >> 5 8%. Uh my exper my experience is >> I'm from New York. Yeah. Well, I'm, you know, I'm from Nashville and Detroit, you know, three five >> three to five% really >> good year even, you know. So, so let's just say five, let's just say five for a raise, 10 for a promotion, >> right? >> You know, probably it nets out to something like that over the course of a a career. But I think the more important part of that is uh what your expectation actually is. you know, if you want more than that, uh, you're gonna have to work for it. You know, one one of the one of the, I think, kind of just realities of living is so many people say, you know, I want a 9 toive job. I want work life balance. It's really hard. >> It's really hard. And in companies, particularly big companies I work for, they they reward the hard workers, you know. So, if you have an expectation to get into management and to get lots of promotions and all that kind of stuff, you got to really wrestle with that work life balance thing. And I see so many people struggle with um particularly if they're in a a co-working couple, you know, whose money do we chase, who raises the kids, right? who and and you've got to have, you know, those are important family unit questions and you've got to be you've got to partner with the spouse. You can have really really honest questions with um as to what you want that arrangement to be and who you want to raise the kids. And like in my case, we chose to travel around so we kind of had to choose to not be where there was family to help >> raise the kids, which was problematic. But if I had to do over again, I think I would have stayed closer to some family members to help out. So >> I hear that I've spoken to >> it's it's a multiffactorial question. It's not just a career question, I guess, is my short answer. >> If someone wants a work life balance become open your own business, >> but see everybody I know that owns their own business talks about how much that >> not going to happen because people will open their own business and they'll close it down because they realize owning your own business, you need to learn how to sell. Yeah, >> you need to learn how to finance marketing, sales, customer service. >> You start wear all these different hats and then they realize I don't want to wear all these hats. >> So, no more work life balance. >> But I know so many people who've been really successful at it, too. So, it it depends. >> Depends. >> It depends on on your personality. >> But if you're boss, you can go home 6:00. >> Yeah. >> And you know, you can work occasionally, but if it's important to you for you to be with family, >> you know, for my last question before we finish, was there ever a car that you loved that Nissan stopped manufacturing? like, "Oh man, I really like that car." >> There's many actually. Really? Yeah. Um, you know, one very special car uh that Nissan used to sell in the US that doesn't anymore is called the Nissan Juke, >> J U K E, and they sell it in Europe. >> Uh, they sell it in Japan. And it was very much a small SUV, sports car. >> Okay. >> Looking kind of machine. >> Smaller than the Rogue, I think. >> Yeah. Smaller than the Rogue. Yeah. and and it was not for everybody. It was it was it was particularly kind of unusual in in the US market, but other markets, Europe, for example, it did very very well. I thought that was a very special car for what it was, a sports car looking small SUV. Uh that was one. Um I think the uh first generation Nissan Leaf had some very special interesting qualities to it. you go back in time. Uh Nissan uh FICO, >> it's it's a car that we uh used to sell in Japan. Uh was a very very special >> interesting >> car. Maybe Miniish if if you're not familiar with it. Maybe something like the Mini Cooper. >> Okay. >> Sort of kind of not really. Um but but it had a certain special quality like that car had was really >> really fun and I would love if they could bring that back. Um, >> so and and then there are certain sports cars that people love. You know, I think Nissan's Z is a very and you can still buy the Z today, but I think that's a very special car and there's legions of fans. That that is the one thing that I get asked the most when people find out that I work for Nissan usually is >> what >> what's your favorite? >> Do you work on the Nissan Z? >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. they will say. Um, and and I I haven't worked on it a whole lot, but I have worked on it a little bit. And if I let them know that that the next the next hour of my night is is is gone talking about the scene, which is fine. I'm happy to do that. So, that's a very special car that I'm very, very proud of that I had something to do with at some point in time. So, yeah. >> Very cool. We're all up. >> Yeah. >> What a good conversation. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you all for watching. Make sure to subscribe on YouTube. Until next time.