I Balanced Faith, Business, and Art | Lessons From 25 Years of Writing

Welcome back to another episode of the What It Takes Podcast. My name is Tony Krauss and today I am very very excited to have Rebels here as our guest. A worldrenowned let's see author, speaker, singer. Getting there. Anything else? Revson, anything else joining us in the studio? Anything else I'm missing? >> He had a choir for >> He had a You had a choir? >> I had a choir. Yeah. >> Wow. Okay. So, choir organ. What's the title for someone who owns a choir, runs >> leader, >> choir leader, >> choir director >> welcome, >> you're here from Israel. We just met Shabas together. >> That's right. >> Wow. >> Not just a shabas. An amazing shabas. >> It's it's what? Wow. Recharges you till till the next year. It's like see It's literally what a shabza was. For those listening, um, Rebell started this movement of learning dy single day. He makes this year enjoyable with graphics and AI and you can understand what you're learning and it makes it fun. It's not so intense anymore. And if you're not learning it every single day, I heavily recommend you should join. And that's the shabas we just spent together. That's it. >> So, thank you for joining. >> My pleasure. >> Um, let's jump into it. We don't have a lot of time. books you've written 40 something 50. >> So I've written probably around 70 but I published 56. >> Publish 56. Yeah. >> Okay. So what does that mean? You >> uh some books families decided they want to put it out different things. >> People hired you to write. >> Yeah. I also write some private things. So not everything not everybody decides they want to put the book out. >> Just for the family, the kids. >> Yeah. Or they just don't get around to doing anything with it. >> Very interesting. when I could afford it. We're going to talk for my Bubby. >> Okay. >> My BBY story is something else. Um, but I want to talk about being an author. How did that start for you? Was that your first jobing out of K? >> Did you have other jobs? You started slowly. >> What was that like? >> I was in Kell then I was learning then by burkowitz I think the mere half a day buritz the other half that was ko and then >> what were you going for? What >> what were you going for? Um was they had a two and a half year program that he would do bas one year he would do shabas one year and he did need one year and he would do inside he would do like lulig in the middle and he would do he did like he tried to cover all the things it was like a kirvon program >> okay >> and I was there for about two years a little yeah about like almost the whole thing and um he gave me on part and it was a great he's awkward puts is very very big of also and this whole thing is anyway. So at that time I decided uh I wanted to write my first book. >> Why? >> Um I felt I could do it better. >> I read all the I had read all the books from all the Jewish books and I felt >> stories inspirational. What were you >> No, I I I didn't know exactly what I was going to start writing but I felt I could do this. I could write books. >> Did you feel like you had a talent for writing? >> I had a talent for writing. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yes. I was always good at writing even as a kid I would get I would get creative writing awards I was good at it and so then in Ka I'm s on the bus going home to Raich the guy sitting next to me is in the k's name is Simon Nissim who's about >> okay >> Simon he married a he's from he's from England but he married a Syrian girl from from Brooklyn anyway so he's and he's learning in with me and with mish and he starts telling me a story and I was like this is a great story and I'm going to take this story and I'm going to fictionalize it. I'm going to turn into a novel. And I decided to write it. My mother-in-law gave me a pad of paper. Mo Shabas. I told her, she said, "Here you go." And I took out a pen and a pad of paper and I started writing my first book. It was called The Edge. And that ended up becoming a movie also. We did a movie years later. Maybe the most popular Jewish movie ever >> with what's in his name in Lakewood. >> Baritz. >> Yeah. >> Anyway, so that's that's the how it started. >> How long till that book was on a shelf? >> It took time. I wrote it in like four months. I wrote like four pages a day. >> Did you keep that notebook? >> I have it still. Yeah. >> When you go back to Z, I want a picture. >> No. >> When you come visit me, we'll we'll take it out. >> Deal. Deal. >> I'll show you the the notebook. And I brought it into Tagen Press. Tag Press because I had gone to Mashad for Shabas with him. My friend was his cousin. And I went at the Shabas. I told him all his books that he wrote and published and he said, "If you ever write a book, come to me first." So I came to his publishing house. And Mrs. is Mimi Zum was the editor-inchief and I started telling her all the books she wrote and she was like, you know, I was 23 years old. She's all all excited. >> You enjoy reading? >> I love reading. >> Okay. >> And in order to be a writer, you need to be a reader. It's like step one. >> Okay. >> And then uh so I started writing and she took my first book and >> was it a hard sell? >> No, it wasn't hard. She liked it. >> Today is it a hard cell if someone wants to start writing? >> It depends. It you you need to I always tell people who are writing if you're writing a book and you want to sell books again, what's the goal? If your goal is just to write a book and you don't care if it sells to write whatever you want. I care if it sells. Therefore, I need to write things which interest me and interest you. >> With your first book, you cared if it sold. >> Or was it just making a better product? >> I I I always care. I I anything I do, if I'm doing it for a commercial, I want it to sell. Otherwise, that means I'm I'm not successful. I like to be successful. What were those four months like writing your first >> Every day on the bus? I wrote it on the bus to by hand and on the bus back to Bamesh. That's the way it went. >> First book >> on the bus and then my grandmother typed it up for me. >> So then you went to Target with that whole thing. >> I I came with typed up file and she called me up. She said Mazatov. >> She read it first. >> She read it. She she told me I'm accepting it and then whatever. I don't know how many months later they it came out. >> What's that process like on the business end? >> What do you mean? They structure on on >> first is editing. >> Okay. >> Copy editing. >> They pay for all that obviously. >> No, it's not obvious. But by me, they did pay for everything >> and they give you a smaller >> and they so if you want to invest yourself by target press the went like if you want to invest yourself. So you you give them x amount of money and then you get let's say 30% of every book or they invest in it because it was a book they wanted, >> right? >> It wasn't a vanity press book is actually they believed in it and then I get like 10% of the book. So, which comes out to about $2,200 a book and I wasn't I was a younger man. I didn't have extra money. So, they invested and the book came out. I called a friend of mine in America. I said, "Tell me get the country magazine and tell me." He used to have a thing called top 20 books. Tell me where it's at on the list. >> Country. Oh my god. >> So, he calls me back and he says it's number one. >> Number one. >> So, they take care of distribution. You don't have to sell. You don't have distribution. All I need to do is write. I look at anything I do, who is my partner who's gonna help me streamline this in the best way. I don't want to deal with everything. >> Did you do research with other publishing houses? >> I've I've ended up working with every publishing company. >> I've done books with with Feldime, Israel Bookshop, Tiger Press, Manukha, and Art Skull. So, Art Skull is my who I work with primarily. >> Why? >> So, they're the the biggest, the best, the most successful. Yeah. But not even it's not even close, right? Arts was number one today. And Art School is a great company. So I'm very happy to work with them. It's a it's an honor to work with them. We're we're we have a great partnership going. >> Is that common with the novels that you write? They come from inspiration and changing names and >> hearing a real story and then fictionalizing it. >> I don't know. I did it I did it once after that. I didn't do it again. That was one time. The other novels came from they were real novels. They weren't based on true stories. >> What was that pro what's the creative process like? >> It's a lot of work. come up with you have an idea and then after that idea you other ideas and until you develop it you have to work out the structure and the and the and the the timeline and you have to know where you're starting from and where you want to get to and along the way things happen and people change and I have to make sure they don't change too much because I need to get to here and it's a very interesting process but it's a very it takes a lot out of you especially because I'm I'm like a lumbisha book it's like these are books that with a big plots >> big character development it's not like a little it's not like It's not onedimensional. It's very big. Like if you read the books, I don't know if you read in English, but uh >> I've been my favorite memories as a kid is staying up till 3 4:00 in the morning shabas reading and just falling asleep in the book. >> Okay. So So >> loved reading and then I got a phone and that that just I wish I could get back into that enjoyment. >> Right. So the network was a book. It's very big. >> Probably read it >> and we have it in Hebrew called Heshet Hareset. the network and these are books that people talk about till it came out 2008. >> What's the image on the cover of the network? >> The image on the on the cover is a world a globe. >> Okay. >> With swat whatever in the word network. >> All those books are probably in my mother's house but >> it was a very it was a very successful book. Not commercially because people don't buy novels. So meaning it's successful in its way but I don't call that successful. >> What do you call a successful book? >> 30,000 copies. You know what? Even 10,000 today. But to me, a success, a real success is 20,000, 25,000, 30,000. That's a real success. >> Has the industry changed since you've written books? >> Since you've started? How old are you writing already? >> I'm writing since I'm I'm 23, 24. I'm 47. >> 25 years. >> 20. >> 24 to 47. 23 years. Yeah. >> Has it changed >> in the sense that maybe people they complain that people don't have the, >> you know, because because of the phones. It's hard. I I don't know if that's true because I can tell you that Hashem >> in the last since this smartphones have come those have been the years that I put out the mo I've sold the most books. >> So >> maybe people buying them over the kids and then those kids become adults and they >> I don't know but there's another thing this has affected the market all the magazines magazines sell every Shabas you get a magazine that has 200 pages of content >> they don't have time to read books. So if you're reading that and you don't finish it over Shabas then you're reading that the whole week and you don't so why are you going to buy books and you jump to you got 800 you got a thousand pages of content >> right >> so that has affected the market that said >> but children don't read magazines >> well they have children >> but that said again but children's books don't sell too much >> no but the network is something teenagers >> that's that's all ages grown-ups but I'm saying that said though I believe and this is in every field if you're doing great books books or you're teaching a great class, you if your content is amazing and your delivery is amazing and you're not boring and what you're saying you're passionate about and it's interesting to the reader and interesting to the listener. So then they're still going to be interested and the whole thing about ADHD is not going to be neg to you because you are interesting and you're passionate about what you believe and people want to and people are interested in what you have to say. So it really comes down maybe it's a little harder so you have more you have to work a little harder but okay it's still not changing the uh if you have what to sell you can sell it >> right >> and people are going to buy it you understand that's that's the nuda >> you find that um adults buy a lot of the novels not just the >> novels again novels are not big sellers that's not a big seller >> I just my my memories I was just like till I was till high teens always reading reading reading reading >> right so I can tell you the novels the numbers of novels they don't sell a a lot. >> What does sell a lot for you? >> Biographies. Biographies are big sellers. Also, I have terror books that sell a lot. Shockingly is a huge seller. I have a series of from the the on the I have four books in English from that. I have coming out with another two on the whole year. A piece for every single day of the year. And so >> it's a translation >> translation of the of the Tyra pieces like verts from the safer and I give every so often there's a story here and the one coming out there's going to be a story at the end of each chabas but the and that sold over 60,000 copies. I'm talking the series has sold between 60 and 70,000 copies and that's Tory. So anything again you if you are writing something that that interests people that interests Cla then you can sell a lot of books but you have to really know what's interesting to people if you're going to write a book >> how do you do that market research to see what people are interested >> I know it's interesting to people again to me it's if you're going to write a book about the history of microphones okay there's not many people who care >> right >> we all use them but not many people care about their history you could write probably a very big book on the history of microphones, who started it, who came up with it, the first ones, how it developed, the different styles, the different sounds, stories about microphones. Not many people care, >> right? >> So then you're limited. >> But Zimsh is something which I didn't know. >> I didn't know. I didn't know. >> What made you pick that? >> It it came to me. It picked me. >> You were passionate about it. >> 2007, somebody came to me in Shul Friday night. He said listen to this story happened to my and he tells me a story about in Manchester and how he almost he was sick and this the person who sells farm in Manchester told him to learn because writes and if you learn my safer so then I I promise you children and around your table like olive shoots and then all the great things and he he started learning the cipher there was a miracle and he survived. I'm excited to talk to you today about United Fua Health Share. If you are spending thousands of dollars every single month on health insurance, this is an alternative for the firm community. You should go check them out. It's not health insurance. It's a health share program. Me and my wife and our family, we switched over about two years ago. We've saved thousands of dollars. Our our premium or or the cost is $500 a month. They only use the word premium because whatever those terminology is meant more for health insurance. But for the first 10 listeners who are watching this video and going to sign up using code blackbird, you're going to get your third month free. So that's something I'm very excited to share with you guys. Make sure to go check them out. United Rafa Health Share. See you next time. >> So I wrote this story in Amadia and people around the world are looking for the safer. Where do I get the safer? The safer is out of print. It's out of print. It was out of print the safer. M. >> So they're all calling me up. How do I get the safe? I'm telling them, I have a copy, but it's six-digit phone number from Williamsburg. That means that's how old it was. Six digits. >> I said, "Look, I I I don't know what to tell you." But Raban Pashkus, he heard of it. He got into it and he reprinted the safer and it came out. And then he then in 2011, he found me in America. I was in America. He tracked me down. We had a meeting in Good of 18th Avenue. He started telling me all the stories of people learning the safe and the Yeshua, the miracles. He said, "You have to write a follow-up piece." So, I wrote a follow-up piece in 2013. He said, "You got to write another follow-up piece of all the stories we're getting for people learning the safer." And every time I write a follow-up piece, the whole world would go crazy. >> Easy for you to do market research. >> Crazy. 2014, he says, "You have to write a safer. Do it in English." >> Which translation >> do you have to translate pieces in English? I'm like on the whole Tyra I I I was so I I I said no I can't do it. He kept on trying him and Zber from Chameish till I gave in and he knows the whole by heart. He's huge and he picked he takes the pieces and writes them in a way that it's easier to understand. Picks it out of the huge are big. He takes them he makes them like smaller pieces. >> Bites us. >> Yeah. Not little little but yes it's complicated terraas. I write it in a way that everyone could understand no matter who. So eventually I gave it and I did I and I wrote on the whole Tory a safer and I said okay but how am I going to get people to to to want to buy this? There's a lot of I said I'm going to put stories in every par comes with a story. We'll do two pieces two three four pieces in every par and a story. That's what I did. Also, stories of Zarshin gets to the safer comes out and it goes crazy. 5,000 10,000 15,000. It's that safer sold over 25,000 copies. So then the country say you got to do another one. So I did another one >> was missing just >> it's amazing safer. >> No, but when they say another one >> oh we didn't we didn't use all the stick. We used a few. It was it's a huge safer. We took pieces and I had written I I had even used all the pieces I did for the first one. So I did another one. I had >> other one wasn't >> on the whole toyra again. >> Was it added or was like a part two or >> part? It's all again the same formula revision. >> No, it's all new pieces on the whole on every par with story. Same thing. That's all probably 15,000 copies. Then I did his here's a pishle. I did a whole thing a safer and also verts that he does that are to ladies to women. A whole safer with candlesticks on the cover. Right. That's a very popular safe probably sold around 12,000 copies today. I did unto him. He has unto him. But again, you have to take it. You have to know how to unlock it because he's written on him. It's all you have to know how to find it. And now we're coming out with a piece on every single day of every par the whole year at the end of you get the shabas and you get and you get a story as a reward. And I also did the I I made a Zberk people and art scroll and they did the whole thing elucidated like you do shas 10 volumes. So that's another thing and it's in in the sh on this all over the world in Yiddish and in Hebrew and I'll tell you even think two year and a half ago I was there doing interviewing for a book Syrian rabbi rabbi of the Syrian community in Flabush a lady calls me up she says I thought she wanted to meet me interviewer she said no no I I'm started in the Syrian community for women we have like 20 shirum of ladies some of them barely from and the teachers teach them to use your safer as a as as a springboard to teach and I were making a CM at the end of the year in Deal. I want you to come speak over there. So I ended up speaking in Deal. How was that like? >> That was crazy. Standing in Deal, my wife was there. She can tell you it was one of the most amazing moments. There's imagine one of those big deal houses on a helicopter. >> No, no, no, no. I'm not you. But uh basically you're at a pool over the I'm not you're not overlooking you're overlooking the ocean this pool and they're setting up chairs all over this hundreds of Syrian ladies you know raid opens up speaks and it's like on these are people that some of them like they're barely from but they're learning this and it's changing them every single day they're going once a week to the share and they're changing and it's all the it's like I heard about a WhatsApp group with 2,000 ladies every day every Hey, so as I say, it didn't choose me. I I didn't choose it. It ch it chose me. But I find really in everything, Hashem sends the things I need to do. He sends it to me and and uh and that's what happens. >> Do people approach you a lot for stories that they want to share with you? >> Over Shabas, a whole bunch of people. >> No, just in general in Israel here, >> all the emails >> all the time. All the time. >> Is it hard being able to listen and focus? And see, people try to convince you to write a story about it. >> No, a short story. Either I like it or I don't like it. And then if I don't like it, I'm going to tell them I don't like it. >> Really, >> if they want me to write it and I I don't want them to be disappointed. Better to be disappointed right away than to be disappointed afterwards. You're not doing anyone any favors, >> right? It's incredible. Someone wants to get Do people call you when they want to get into the >> Sometimes. >> And what advice would you give them? Don't do it. Do it. >> No, no, no. If you're good at it and you and you think you could do biographies, let's say, go for it. I give them They ask me how it works and I tell them exactly how it works. >> Any advice you would give them on the business side? uh contract negotiations, distribution. >> They ask me everything and I tell them and I tell them I give them all of my I tell them exactly I tell them people come to me um I'm working with this person. I've worked with that person already. I tell them how that person how to how to approach that person, how to negotiate with that person and I tell them by the way don't think you you could you don't have to ask for $20,000. You could ask for $50,000 for this project and you'll get it because that's normal. The point is that this is a an amazing thing and I'm happy to share you know the knowledge that I have on on writing. I did actually with Reva Palmet she sat down with me and we did a certain like a podcast about writing and like advice to how to do it like a few hours. But I'm I'm always happy anyone who comes and asks me what to do. I I walk them through the process. I give them advice, tell them how I do it, what my style is, what my methods are. I'm happy I share it. Yeah. Wow. Now yesterday by the sh this is coming out in a month or six weeks. Um but yesterday by the CM what's Shabas? You put out a beautiful song. >> Yes. >> Why? Why people know he's an author? What happened to the singing career? >> I was never a singer. First of all, let's be clear. I was never a singer. I had a choir. So I had a kids choir for many years 15 years. I had many groups. I had I had a group in Gad. I had a group in in in I had a group in Hanov at different times. Sometimes I had five groups and the choir used to perform everyone together. I had my performing group for concerts. We concert with many concerts with concerts with with all the big singers highendas shabases ac capella. I used to go I did everything. >> Five groups at once. >> I had five groups at once every day. >> You need leaders for each one? >> No, no, no. I had group that I would go every every night to a different group. ated Kufa where I was and then I had my two main groups one >> and at 100 kids in the choir at >> what happened what happened to >> the industry is is part of you it no part of me here and there I make a song here and there I make a song that's that's that part of me that you know I'm sitting learning and share and suddenly a tune comes into my head it's coming from DAFF it's coming from the DAFF this the name of the song is DAFF >> it's coming from the DAFF >> where can people find it already on yet not yet when's it coming out >> oh we We just we just introduced it yesterday. >> It's a great song. >> Thank you. >> It's it's it's good. >> Yeah. >> Oh, it's very very good. But what happened to the music the the choir? You shut it down. What happened? >> Yeah. At some at some point in Hebrew they say they have a line it was good and it's good. It was good. It's good that it was over that it's over. >> You were out late at night. >> The No, no, not about that. The industry changed. >> What capacity? There used to be a big call for choirs. Suddenly there wasn't a big call for choirs. People weren't calling anymore. Now another thing, you couldn't make CDs anymore. CDs weren't a thing anymore. Suddenly you're investing tons of money in a CD. You're not selling CDs. So you're basically giving people a very expensive gift for free to everyone and you're not making money. You're not making back your investment. And there's another thing the music the whole it became a kidish music and Israeli music. Not writing that music. Not interested in writing that music. So, I have to reinvent myself completely to keep to stay relevant. No, to me it's not just a hobby. It's a business. If the business makes sense, we do it. If it doesn't make sense, you get out. I can tell you of Suki Bry who produced my first albums. He likes to tell me one of the things who >> Suki Berry Suki and Ding. >> So, give him Ding. >> Suk Berry. Suki Berry. Okay. >> He produced my first album. >> I grew up a few blocks from his office. >> And he tells me, so that's Ding's office. So, he's in. >> Okay. Okay. >> And he tells me, "One of the things I'm I'm most impressed about you is that you got out. >> You knew when to call a question. >> You got out of the business. Most people have a very hard time getting out. If it's over, it's over. Move on." I had another business >> writing. Yeah. >> Well, how were you able to juggle both? Cuz both on kept you pretty busy. >> Yeah. But the choir was more of like an hour at a time thing. >> But I always had I always was writing. I was always >> music went down on the family to your kids. >> Yeah, my kids are musical. Yeah. Yeah. >> What's a shabas table like? Probably must be beautiful. >> I mean, now they're older, so it's less mirrors. But when I when they're younger, tons of mirrors. Kids when they were young. Yeah. They would choir. The boys, my daughter has choirs herself now. She has a studio. They're very musical, very talent. My kid plays guitar. He's a composer. He's amazing. He's fantastically talented. Yeah. >> Okay. I'm excited to hear his stuff when when it comes out. He's very good. >> Um during Shabas we we spoke about this um I do recruiting and I've gotten so Friday Friday somebody called me. He's a CFO lives in Muny area. Makes $275,000 a year. >> Okay. >> He's making aliyah in the summer. He wants to move. Now you you you've been living there living there for a very long time. But >> for people listening who want to make aliyah but the the parnasa is a challenge. Would you have any advice for them? It's a very important if you if you that that that you should be able to work online meaning you should be able to keep your yeah you should look you're used to a certain standard of living he's making 275,000 now in America if he has six kids that's not a lot of money >> that's really pretty basically it's pretty minimum actually it's normal it's very normal >> but in a matter of fact if you're making 275 that's a very good so if he could keep that job >> there he's called me because he's open to opportunities. >> Okay. >> He need to find something. >> So he has to understand in the normal salary is about 15,000 shak a month. >> So it's four grand give or take. >> It's very it's not a high salary and it's and you have a lot of expenses. So just keep that in mind. You need to make sure panasa get your ducks lined up in a row. You know what I'm saying? If you could keep that CFO job, fly into America once a week, once a month, be be available online, I would I would recommend that. for him. >> So the Americans that living in it's so they have their own business or work remotely >> you know I I work for Israeli government but I'm I'm working in really for America if you think about it I'm working I'm writing books >> in English >> in English for mostly being hired by Americans >> the place we're trying to leave is the one that's supporting us. No, again look at the end of the day this is when everybody moves to so then then it's not going to be that way anymore >> right >> right now there's a big there's a big market of of yidden here right >> who are buying books who are who are writing books who want to read books so yeah >> how do talking about the market Israel versus the US writing the books in Hebrew is it different >> I say it's it's a waste of time they don't sell again why are you writing the book if you're writing the book because you have something you want to say you want to get it out there. Fine, great. If you write a book because you want to sell books, >> they don't sell in Hebrew. >> Doesn't read. >> They read libraries. They they borrow. They don't sell. They don't buy books. >> They're not seeing an ad and running. Oh, that looks >> very little. I mean, again, compared to what I do in America, it's very, very small. >> Wow. And usually when you're coming, I'm assuming you're coming when you come to the US, you're coming to interview people. >> Yeah, usually. And I don't do it. I do it usually on Zoom or on the phone. I hear that >> here and there. He specifically wanted me to come. So, I came because I was able to do the Ny Shabas the same time. So, it all worked out. >> I asked Donnie for your for your for your email because I wanted to make this happen. I really appreciate it. >> Sure.