From CEO to Employee to CEO Again | The Hard Reality of Entrepreneurship

Welcome back to another episode of the Water Takes podcast. My name is Tony Krauss, CEO of Blackberry Recruiting. Today's episode, we have a fun guest, an old friend of mine, Sam Schwartzblot. Schwartz or Schwarzblot? >> Really, whatever makes you feel most comfortable. >> Okay. A guy who's lived both as a business owner, employee, and then again as a business owner. We all love the idea of being our own boss, calling the shots, building a business, making it happen. But what happens when that dream starts to crack? When you realize that sometimes walking away from your own company might actually be the bravest things you bravest move you can make. Sam's story is brutally honest. From launching his own construction company to grinding through the highs and lows, eventually closing down and stepping into a full-time role as an employee and then being brave enough to do version 2.0 and trying again. We're going to talk about humility, ego, money, burnout, and identity. What it's really like going from the boss to being an employee back to being a boss. Welcome to the podcast. >> Thank you. It's a pleasure to be I might forget and call you in the middle, but everyone listening, you'll know who I'm talking about. >> Absolutely. That's okay. >> Yeah. What's going on? >> Welcome. Welcome. >> Thank you. Thank you. It's really appreciate the opportunity. It's a real privilege. >> So, let's start off. You've been in construction. Um, why did you start in construction? >> So, my family actually has a big background in construction. I wouldn't say in general contracting per se, but my parents are real estate developers. I was always growing up on construction sites. When I was a kid, people ask, "What do you want to do?" And everyone says, "I want to be a firefighter." And I always said, "I want to be an architect." >> Why an architect? It's heavy math. >> I know. And that's why I didn't become an architect. But really, I mean, the idea of creating things and my my brain is a very creative one. And I've always had that like interest in creating things, making like an idea become a reality. That's just my personality. And I guess it had to do with my background because I grew up and I watched my parents. They would go, "Okay, we're going to build this building." And then I'm this little seven-year-old running around with a hard hat and asking tons of questions. I was the most annoying kid ever, but I learned so much from a young age. And I always knew I wanted to be involved in some capacity in construction and um got married and needed to make a b needed to make a parnasa, needed to start a business and I was like, "Okay, let me try this. Let's do this." Why starting your own business versus going to work for someone else? >> Ah, so it's actually a very interesting question and not for the reason you think because I looked around and I saw a lot of my peers, a lot of my colleagues that were in the construction industry and they worked for larger companies. They started as a project manager. They did the grunt work. They worked their way up the ladder and most of the time if they're good at what they do, they graduate that. They open up their own shop. That's typically the way that things go. But what I also saw is that they're basically a copypaste version of the person that they worked for. So if you worked for Yay, now you're Yay 2.0. >> Okay. >> And I had >> What do you mean by that, by the way? >> So when you build, there's all different ways that you could run that business. There's ways that people cut corners. There's ways that people rush things. There's ways that people do things right. There's all different things, all different components. It's not just it's not like a specific consumer product where you're getting it in a box and it's the same thing if you're buying it in Target or Walmart. It's all very much dialed into the last nail last screw all that stuff. So there is a way that people operate whether it's the way that they run the business from the bookkeeping perspective from the back end or if it's from the just the project management side. How do the job sites look? Are they messy? Are they neat? Are are they trying to save a buck here? You know like >> how are they treating the subs? >> Well that too. That's an that's that's an incredible point as well. And um yeah, I'd love to get into that more at some point, but um yeah, I mean that's an incredible like thing that you see that somebody could basically learn the whole trade from somebody then go out and do it on their own, right? >> But I said I didn't want to do that because I had a very specific vision. I had a very specific dream about what I wanted to do and what I wanted to change in the industry. So I said if I work for someone, I'm not going to be myself. So let me at least give myself a shot. >> Listen, if this doesn't work in six months, I'll go work for somebody. let me at least give it a shot. And that's just how my brain works. And thank God it ended up being there was a lot of things that I learned along the way. But >> initially I just started talking to everybody and anybody who I saw in July, hey, what do you do? Like oh, I'm in construction. Like >> did you build anything? Like no, but I'm going to build huge stuff. And it's just like you just like you have this crazy vision and you're just like so idealistic. But reality is there's nothing there's there's no money in the bank. There's no there's no signed checks. There's no contracts in place, but you say it until, you know, you try to fake it till you make it in that sense that you're like, "This is what I do." And luckily, you know, thank God, right away. Actually had somebody reach out. Somebody was on a chat with another on a real estate chat and they said, "Hey, this guy's looking for a builder." And I said, "Okay, send me his number." The guy said, "Okay." Sends me the number. I called him up. I'm like, "Hey, you're looking for a builder?" Happened to have been an old family acquaintance that did business with my parents. >> So, there was a trust factor. So there was a trust factor in that, you know, and at the same time I said to him, I said, "I'm 100% brand new and you're taking a chance on me and obviously you don't have to, but I'm going to give you better service than anybody else because I have a reputation to create. I have something to prove versus the other guy. You're just another notch in his belt." So that was really, you know, my impetus to go out there and like keep going. >> Did family ever bring you business? So, there were a few times where I did get referrals through through my family. For the most part, it was really pretty much from outside sources. Um, I did obviously did some work for my family as well, meaning like I built my parents. When they needed a new house, I built them a new house. When my brother needed a new house, I built them a new house. >> Do you lose money at those jobs? >> It's hard to say at this point, but I definitely didn't make a ton of money. >> It was more It was more about, you know, which is interesting because usually friends and family, right? Everyone says you need a friends and family discount, but it should be the other way around. >> Friends and family, you pay extra to support them. You don't ask for a discount. The way it should work, if you were my brother and your contract, I called you. I should offer to pay full price and then you should offer a discount. >> Yeah. >> You should I shouldn't ask for it. >> Correct. >> And then somewhere in the middle, we're going to meet in the middle, but using your services, I should offer to pay you in full. That's what that's what friends and family discount is. You support each other and help each other and pay full price or offer. >> Yeah. And and that's what I tell my friends now. My friends over reaching out. Thank god we're at like the age where like when I started I was 22. So like how many of my 22-year-old 23y old friends are looking for a contractor? How many people are looking to build houses? >> And I always said and actually was on a podcast like 5 years ago and I said like in 10 years from now or 5 years from now people are going to be reaching out to me because I'm putting myself out there and they're going to know me as the guy to use to build, >> right? >> And you know people reach out and I I just had this conversation with a friend and he said I I want the friends and family discount. said the friends and family discount is that you pay full price because you care about me. >> Care about me. You want to support me. >> Exactly. >> I'm excited to talk to you today about United Fua Health Share. If you are spending thousands of dollars every single month on health insurance, this is an alternative for the firm community. You should go check them out. It's not health insurance. It's a health share program. Me and my wife and our family, we switched over about two years ago. We've saved thousands of dollars. our our premium or or the cost is $500 a month. They only use the word premium because whatever those terminology is meant more for health insurance, but for the first 10 listeners who are watching this video and going to sign up using code blackbird, you're going to get your third month free. So, that's something I'm very excited to share with you guys. Make sure to go check them out. United Rafua Health Share. See you next time. >> Okay, welcome back. Um, what did what did your business look like at its peak? >> So, at its peak, I had two full-time project managers. I had a part-time permit paperwork expediter >> and I had a part-time bookkeeper as well. And then I also was actually doing like I had some somebody like part-time doing photography and videography as well. So, for marketing >> for marketing for social media and things like that. Um, and we were doing up to there were like six or seven large scale commercial projects happening. um some custom homes, things like that. >> How many projects do you have in the pipeline that you were not in the pipeline that you were actively working on at any given time? >> At any given time, I mean, again, I my bandwidth is pretty wide, thank God. But I've I've gone up to like >> probably 10, I think. >> Whoa. With such a small lean team. >> Yeah. Because it's not about It's not about having more people. It's about >> It's not more people, but it's your head needs to be divided into 10. >> Correct. Wild. >> Yeah. You know, it's it's a really it's a it's something that I found I'm very good at. So >> really, >> it's cuz you have to really compartmentalize each job and everything is different. So you're not selling the same pair of shoes to the same to different people. It's different shoes to different people. So every single job is like a it's a custom it's a custom experience. So every person needs different things. So being able to actually go and say, "Hey, we're going to do this here and then not do that there, >> right?" And and it was a challenge, but I love a challenge. I love I love like I always tell people like I in yeshiva I was never a beakas guy. I never like I never like to just learn like the easy stuff. I like throw me into like a good suga. Give me an inan suga >> that I'll remember like I can remember those sugas today from when I was 13 14 years old. But you ask me what I learned in seconds later I have no idea. You know what I mean? >> Okay. >> What would you say were some of the tougher or toughest parts of running your own business your own construction company? I think cash flow is a big one. I think understanding how to actually be a legitimate business in that sense. >> So what advice would you give to someone who's a contractor today and struggling with cash flow? >> I think the most important thing is the most important thing is to really identify what your costs are in getting a job done. How long that job is going to take for you to get that done. And I'm going to just say one more thing and then I'll give you an example. So, so number one is knowing how much it cost you to get the job done. Number two is knowing how long it's going to take you to get that job done. And number three is really managing your customers expectations. And it makes a big difference for your cash flow and because let's just go through this in a quick scenario. If for example, if you know how much money you're making, then you know how much to charge your client, right? And then you're able to cover your overhead and you're able to actually deliver on the job. Knowing how long it takes is great, too, because I've heard people say, "Oh my gosh, it's a great project. I'm I'm going to make $250,000 building this project." And then the next question I always ask them is, "How long do you think it's going to take you to build that?" >> I don't know, probably two years, three years. Great. So now divide that $240, $250,000 over three years. You're looking at a way smaller number if you're looking at it from a perspective of cash flow because you need to have monthly a certain amount of money in order to cover your expenses, in order to deliver that product. So, it's very nice that you're making a lot of money big picture, high level. But if it's not going to implement itself into your daily cash flow and it's not going to give you what you need, then sometimes it's better to take a smaller project with a slightly smaller fee, but it's going to be paid out much faster. And that's going to give you that cash flow that you need to actually deliver the project. And when you have happy clients, well, understanding first of all that in order to make them happy, they have to see that their money is going to the right place. And they have to see that when they hire you to do the job, you're effective at it. So if you can't dedicate resources to it, so if you have six projects and one project manager because you can't afford to hire more because you're running after the next job and you're basically saying, "Okay, >> I'm going to be the best guy in town when it comes to pricing." You're basically delivering the a subpar product. You're delivering something that's below standard, right? >> Because you're trying to constantly run that hamster wheel. So I think those three things go go together in a very significant way. And I think that it applies in most businesses obviously in different levels but in construction for sure you really have to be on top of the money because otherwise again it's a very very intensive job to be involved in construction. It's not it's not a 9 to5. Sometimes you're up at 6 a.m. and you're going to a job site. Sometimes at 11 o'clock at night there's an issue. There's an emergency. A pipe starts leaking. You have to be there for the entire process. It's going through plans and estimating all the way through to, oh my gosh, there's a little spot on this tile and the client moved in already. How do we fix this? So, all that coming together requires you to actually be healthy in the cash flow department. I think that's >> here's the big question. Why do you close up shop? So, I was actually living in Lakewood for my entire life and my wife's from and I really came to a point where I I just didn't feel that I wanted to live in Lakewood anymore. >> Okay. >> Um, for personal reasons, I just felt, you know, living in Muny would be better for me. I spoke to my rebby and I said, "Okay, this is what I want to do." >> Why? >> Uh, it's just so much nicer here. Um, >> what's nicer about Muny? >> So, I'm going to give this example and I tell this to everybody when they ask me why I moved to Muny. And no hate on Lakewood. It's a beautiful place. I grew up there. >> When I tell someone from Lakewood that I moved to Muny, they would say, "Why? Why would you move to why? Why would you move to Muny?" But when I told the people who live at Muny that I'm moving to my said, oh, that's so nice, right? >> Let me know if you need anything like, "Yeah, we don't have Bagel Nash. We don't have Glite, but we're doing just fine." And it's just it's, you know, my neighborhood's a beautiful neighborhood where I live and we got in on the ground floor. our we were number five in the neighborhood from from families and we're up to 50 Kahara now 50 50 families in three years. So >> um I never looked back and I'm so happy that I did. So >> you see Muny as a more out of town community. >> I wouldn't say out of town. I would say it's more real. >> Authentic. >> Yeah. People are their authentic selves. >> What about outside neighborhoods of Lakewood? Think Jackson, Tom's River, Manchester. I think, again, I'm not I'm not throwing shade on anybody in any neighborhood, but I think that a lot of people are really running away from other things when they go to those areas. So, if Lakewood's too in the box, you move to certain areas in Towns River. If Lakewood's not chilled enough for you, you're moving to certain neighborhoods in Jackson. If Lakewood costs too much, you're moving to, and no offense to anybody because I respect them so much for doing it. Anybody lives in Manchester, they moved out there. And anybody will be honest with you will tell you it's because the housing was too expensive in Lakewood. So, it was really a knock-on effect. It was like, "Okay, this is the issue in Lakewood. Let me and when I called my Arabian and asked him, I said, "I want to move to Muny." He said, I said, "I have one question. Am I running away? >> Am I running to something?" And he said, "You know what? I think this is the best thing you'll ever do." And I and and he was 100% right. >> When Mashiah comes and you're going to move to Israel, I want you to start building in Israel. >> Absolutely. >> Start working now. So Mashia comes, you ready to have, you know, >> we're only going to use Jewish laborers. No Arabs. >> Ah. Um, so you were saying you moved to Muny. you wanted to you always knew my >> so no I I again like I have maybe some relatives in Muny growing up but I didn't know much about my >> so what did you think about moving to my >> so got married my my wife's from my so I used to come for you know weekends or whatever and I would always come to like shiners on Sunday morning and I was like wow this is incredible like you have a nanak you have this modern orthodox guy >> you have a sardi guy and you have like some litvak and they're all sitting in the same shul and nobody looks at each other like they're you know everybody exactly So and and always you know my blood pressure always went down when I came to my so I said okay you know what let me try this and my wife was actually having a meeting in in my go herself I said you know I'm going to take the day and we were talking about my already like we had it on like in our on our brains and we pull in open up Zillow my house comes on the market like the second that we pulled in off the highway and my wife used to be a realtor so she called up her old boss and she said hey is this I said house just came on the market like today. Can we see it? And they said, "Yeah." So, like an hour and a half later, like right after she finished a meeting, we were the first ones to see it. We saw the house. We put an offer and the rest is history. >> Shem's the best. >> Yeah. It's pretty incredible. And I always I always said like I was talking to one of my siblings before I did this and I said like I live like my business in Lakewood like what am I going to do like a month? And >> and I remember they told me they said like just just commute like get in the car and commute, right? >> And I was a little crazy and I was like I really wanted to live. I was like, "You know what? Fine. Let's do that. Let's go. Let's like bring it on." Let me tell you, commuting from Muny to Lakewood every single day and being on job sites at 6:30, 7:00 in the morning. Um, >> you're out of your mind >> a little bit. Yeah, it was kind of crazy. >> You need to leave my 4:30, 5:00. >> Yeah. >> To be on a job site 600 6:30. >> Yeah. If you have an inspection, inspector shows up 7:30, you're toast. >> Yo, you need to leave my at 6. That's brutal. It's a long the way home you're sitting in traffic. >> Yeah. No, it's not it's not fun. >> Get on a motorcycle. Yeah, that's a little more fun on the highway >> probably. Yeah, >> that's wild. And why' you So you commuting was brutal. So you shut down your business. >> No. So no, that that alone wouldn't have been the reason because I could have figured out different ways to make it work. I could have put in I had a manager honestly that was doing a very good job >> um filling in the gaps for me. But I don't know if you recall probably about two and a half years ago, there was a lot in the a lot of a lot of things in the economy were going a little bit south. Um, it was a weird time because it wasn't like specifically a recession or anything like that, but there was a point where everybody pumped the brakes on all their money, >> right? >> I had a lot of clients who were looking to do projects more the custom stuff. I had one client who had a massive addition that he was going to do with a mikvah in there with a pool in a pool house and he'd give me a deposit. We were working out the numbers and then he just said, "I can't do it." Did he ask for the deposit back? >> Yes, he did. >> O, >> yeah. >> Okay. >> Um, you know, and it just, you know, obviously it just it started to not make sense because I'm driving in and I I keep getting beat up going in. Like I'm coming in and I'm like constantly in a boxing match. Like I just it it wasn't it didn't feel right. So I actually spoke to you and I actually reached out to you and I said, "Hey, telly like if you know of anything like local like I'm I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to jump right in, be an employee, like I can't hack this. It's just too much right now. And >> sort of decided at that point like I'm going to do it. And yeah, that's what I did. Now, one thing that's common is business owners tend to make more money as employees. If you are a project manager construction company versus owning your own construction company, even it's not a massive construction company, you're usually going to make more money. Um, what was the hardest part about shutting down your business? financial one or emotional one. >> I think financial wasn't really an issue at that point because I saw the writing on the wall and it kind of was on its way down in a certain sense at that specific time. Had I stuck on maybe, you know, hung on for the ride, but at that point in time, the financial wasn't really the reason. It was really more emotional. You know, you especially my entire professional career, I was like this big guy, you know, had a company like people knew me and and I had, you know, people knew me that way. And then I went to like, oh yeah, I work for someone, you know, and it's like it kind of stinks in the beginning, but I've learned to actually love it and I've learned to uh to wear it as a badge of honor. >> Because it's something that's not so common or >> No, because I think that whatever you do in life, no matter what it is, you have to be the best at it. So it doesn't really matter if you're working for somebody and you have a boss or if you have your own business or you play pickle ball every Friday. whatever you're going to do, you have to be the best at it. And I said, if I'm going to be an employee, I'm not just going to be some mediocre W2 punch in punch out. I'm going to actually >> be exceptional at what I do and constantly evaluate. Again, people tie their entire lives to their careers, to their titles. And ultimately, when you take that title away, you start to look at yourself in the mirror and you say, "Hey, who am I as a person? What are my skills? What are my strengths? What are my weaknesses?" and you start to go down that road, it's very empowering because you're able to look at yourself and you know this is who I am, right? >> I'm proud of it. >> Introspecting. >> Yeah. So, it gives you that kick to go, okay, so I'm not a business owner. Great. Now what? So, what am I? >> Very true. Very true. What went through your head the day you said you're done? >> A lot. I mean, it was it was it was a little bit of a slow boil because I I had many conversations with potential clients that were ready to go that were like it was kind of like yeah yanking the cord. It was like one after the next like you know how like sometimes you look up and you say thank you everything's going great like boom one one one home run after the next and then all of a sudden boom it's just the opposite like you hit a pothole and then your tire busts and then >> you get a speeding ticket. >> Exactly. And that's really what it felt like. And then you hit a deer. >> Exactly. And you're just like you don't know what to do with yourself. >> And you have to be able to say, "Okay, I'm going to cut my losses, >> right?" >> Um there's this something called the sunken cost fallacy, which is people say, "Oh, I put so much in so now I have to keep going, >> right?" >> When essentially that's kind of idiotic because if you even though you put that much in, it doesn't mean that it's going to go somewhere. Um you have to say, "Okay, I'm going to stop the bleeding. I'm going to say no. I'm not going to do this anymore. this is not conducive for my financial well-being to continue being a business owner. And then when once you make that decision, it's liberating. It's it's honestly liberating because being a business owner, you're like there's so many things that you're so busy with every single day and now it's like >> one focus. >> One focus. And it's like the boss says, "Hey, can you do this? Can you do that?" It's like, "Yeah, what else you got?" Right? And it's like this and it's this constant push to do more and to be better as an employee and keep just gaining new skills and and and you know I I had a great example something that I really despised doing my entire career which was punch lists >> which essentially what a punch list is is you finish a job there's always going to be a punch list at the end which is there's probably 20 30 things on a sheet of paper I don't know this doorork knob is a little croo crooked this paint needs to be touched up um the little things. >> Correct. And I always handed it off to the project manager. And then when I became the project manager, it was handed off to me. >> And in the beginning, I hated it cuz I was like, "This is awful. This is like the worst kind of work." Cuz you're not doing real work. It's grunt work. It's like it's like shoveling in a blizzard. There's always like every time you meet the client, they're like, "Oh yeah, now this doesn't, you know, like you're constantly you're tailoring it and you're fine-tuning it to a level where you could walk away and say, "I'm done." And and at a certain point I had a perspective shift and I said you know what because I hate this so much I'm going to learn to love it. >> Is that possible? >> Yes. And not from a like oh I'm going to love doing this specific item but like >> get good at it. >> Forget about being good at it. When you wake up in the morning and you do something that you didn't want to do. Let's say it's just wake up at a normal time because some people struggle with that, right? Myself included. Um you get up in the morning and like the second you got up you already have one win one win in the bag. You're like, >> "Boom, >> boom, I did that. Boom. I did that. Booyah." And you're like, you're constantly going and you're like, "Let me see what else I could do that's difficult." And it's super stimulating. So, when you don't have that, again, going back to the weave with the Ian and the Beakas, right? When you have something that's super easy, it's not enjoyable. Me personally, I always want to be doing things that are more challenging. I'm not >> sweat a little bit. >> Sweat a little bit, but also just say yes, right? So, it's not about no or I can't do it. Like a lot of builders, you come in, you say, "I want a fish tank on the ceiling." I'm just giving an abstract example, right? And there are people who will say that or close to it. I've had pretty pretty interesting um requests from clients and you could say, "No, no, we can't do that." Or you could say, "Sure, give me a couple minutes. Let me figure this out." >> Right? >> And then you figure it out. You're like, "Wow, that is so cool." >> A fish tank in the ceiling. >> Sure, why not? You need a fish tank in the ceiling. Why not? >> Why not? >> Why not? I always tell people, my favorite thing to tell people is if you want a purple house >> Yeah. >> upside down with yellow shutters and carpet in your kitchen. >> Let's do it. >> Let's do it. Let's make it as perfect as it can be. Like, we'll get you. We'll make it, you know, if that's what you want cuz I'm here to deliver ultimately exactly what you want. It's not about me. I take myself out of the equation, right? And and like those challenges really level you up as a person because you're not like sitting and coasting or like doing the same thing over and over and over again. Every project's unique. Every client's unique. Everybody has different needs. Some people only work through WhatsApp. Some people only work through email, right? And you have to meet somebody where they're at. Some people need a little more handholding. Some people don't grasp all the concepts in construction. There's a lot of things you have to understand when it comes to heating, cooling, blah blah blah, whatever it is. And I'll take the time and I'll sit down with them and I'll explain it to them in a way that makes sense. And and I and I love doing that and I love a challenge. >> What did your wife say about closing up shop, becoming your family, friends? Um, she was 100% behind me on it. It wasn't >> because she saw how stressful being a business owner was. >> Yeah. I mean, and she was kind of nervous for me to actually go back out on my own again. Like she said, like this is like crazy. Like >> the commute. >> What? >> And the commute to Lakewood. >> Yeah. I mean, well, forget about the commute. But I think that for us it was really because of all the topsyturviness of how the business was going, there was a lot of instability. So, okay. And now I like, okay, this month I'm eating steak, next month I'm eating chicken or Cheerios for dinner, right? >> What about friends and family? What did they say? Did they Did you feel judged? >> Honestly, I don't care. I got to that point. >> Did they judge you? >> If they did, it's none of my business. Um, I didn't feel that way. I mean, again, like I'm very close with one of my siblings and like he was very very much supportive of like me doing what made sense. So, you know, I'm his little brother, you know, and always shared my journey with him and he was like, "Okay, this is great." You know, jump right in. >> Right. >> Um, yeah. >> What about the identity going from a boss to an employee? >> It was very difficult. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. >> What were the hard parts? >> I think when you know how a business runs and then you're not the person running it, >> the decision maker. >> Yeah. Yeah, you're kind of like a like like a like a backseat driver cuz you're looking at your boss and you're like, "No, what are you doing? Do it this way. Do it this way." Or like and they're not asking you for your opinion cuz you're just a square peg for a square hole. You're not like asked to do anything else. >> And the whole time it's like sort of you have to shut down that part of your brain and say, "Okay, you know what? This is not my business." And I go home at the end of the day and because it's not my business, I'm actually okay with that. Whatever happens during business hours is my problem. After business hours, not my problem. Would you hire people who own their own business and close it down? Do you think old business owners are good employees? >> To be honest, I don't think so. >> They saw every like they saw what it was like to run a business. So having them as an employee, they understand where you're coming from. It >> Yes. But it takes a significant amount of adversity to bring a person from a business owner back to an employee because people are entrepreneurial. They're they're always running their ideas and through their head and they're always like, "Let me open this business, that business." Right? And then if it doesn't go well, so they'll open up another business. They'll reiterate what they'll they'll come up with a new version of what they're doing, right? >> To then go and say, "You know what? I'm completely closing up shop and I'm going to go work for somebody." The rare case where you have somebody like I think I was an exceptional employee um and I did my job 120% 200% of the time, >> right? But I think that it's very hard to wrap your head around all these things and you have to be emotionally mature and you have to be cognizant of your own like emotional state when you're going into that and you're not just saying, "Oh, okay. Um, I'm going to work for somebody because you actually have to do like that mental work to wrap your head around it and I don't think most people are capable of it." >> What was it like interviewing for jobs? It was a lot >> going on job interviews. Like you just owned your own business for five years and now like going on a job interview. >> Yeah. It was humbling. It was very very humbling because here I am. I'm I'm thinking like I'm this >> big macho. >> Big macho. Right. Yeah. And like I did all these things and like I had all these people who like trusted me to do their projects and then the guy's like, "Okay." So >> and you had employees, right? >> You had a lot of responsibility. >> Happy employees which I'm very proud of. I'm still in touch with them today. like we we we were still good. Like was never a point where I said like we had got into a conflict. Like I was always very I was a good boss. Um and it was just super humbling because the guy would be like, "Okay, so so what's your deal?" Like and it's like, "So what have you And like these guys, let's say I'm interviewing and I want to sort of get to the same level of income where I'm at working for myself or or match that like lifestyle and these guys if I'm I'm punching a way above my weight cuz like as much as I did, these guys are like 10 times bigger than I ever was and they're looking at me like, "Oh, you little shnook like, "Oh, what did you do?" You know, like you did that. Okay, great. >> Like how are you as an employee? >> Did you have a mentor? >> Um, no. I would say maybe just like my older brother. I talk to him like literally all the time. Like I'll talk to him six times in a day if I have to. I'll ask him what he thinks about everything. >> Is he in develop Is he in construction? >> So he's in the construction industry. He's not in custom homes or construction per se, but he's a subcontractor. He works um he does doors and locks, commercial doors. He's doing it for 20 years. Oh wow. >> Yeah. >> So he knows his way around being a business owner, a leader. >> Clients, any kind of client you could possibly have had, he's had, you know. >> Okay. Um, what's it like taking direction from somebody else as an employee? >> Tough. >> Were you able were you ever able to shut that down and say, you know what, I'm just going to listen. Like this voice is like that's telling you, why are you doing it this way? This way, this other way that I'm I'm thinking of is way better. You ever shut that can't? Like, can you? >> So, you can, but it's it's it's almost impossible. So this is a good ego check becoming an employee after being an employer. >> Oh absolutely. Where I work >> very humbling experience. >> Yeah. The first day when I met my boss where I work I said he said to me he said like you need to figure out how I work >> as opposed to >> as opposed to I'm going to figure out like how you work. Meaning to say I came in and he was basically like you're on my program. >> Uhhuh. >> If I want you to do something a specific way you need to figure it out and just do it. There was no room. >> Is he light is does that mean he was like a micromanager? toughy type of boss >> or not necessarily. >> People who know him know he's a toughy. >> Okay. >> Um he knows what he wants and he's very determined to get there and >> he has his approach that he's had for his entire professional life and that's how he does things. So he's not going to all of a sudden change it just because some shnook came and started working for him, >> right? >> No matter how good that shnook is, it's you need to figure it out. And I had to figure out that I needed to figure it out. And if I wanted to stay at his company, I had to do what he wanted. >> Did your experience being a business owner help you as an employee? >> I I think so. Yeah. >> In what capacity? >> Just in having a broader bird's eye view of the entire process. So I was never an employee who was looking at the boss and going, "Oh my gosh, he makes so much money. I wish I could get more money." You know, you're a business owner. >> I'm like, >> I get it. Like it's it's not it's not like all sunshine and roses. You're not like grass isn't always greener on the other side. Like, yeah, maybe you'll make another $70,000 a year working for yourself, but at the end of the day, like, is it worth the sleepless nights, the stress, the health, you know, you you really you put your body in major stress mode every time you go in certain situations, you know, that's just >> responsible for your payroll. >> Yeah. I mean, there were weeks when I would have run payroll where cash flow was tight and I took money out of my personal bank account and I paid my guys, right? And I didn't eat for Shabas and they did, >> right? And when they asked for a raise, I didn't throw them out of the office. I explained to them that, okay, listen, we'll figure it out. We'll come, we'll step it in or whatever. We'll figure it out. But nobody left me. Nobody was ever like, I can't do this anymore. I can't afford it. I always made sure that everybody had what they had. >> What was the biggest surprise being on the other side as an employee? >> I think how polar opposite the two things are. Um, because you're doing the same thing. Like as a builder, I've always built. So whether I'm building for myself or I'm working for somebody, I'm doing the same thing. But it's incredible how polar opposite it is being on the other side of the table. So as as a boss, you're really not looking at things through an employes lens. As an employee, you're not looking at things through a boss's lens and you're both driving down the road parallel and you're in completely different vehicles. So there's times when as an employee you have to do things that and part of your job as an employee is to be a good employee. So that that means that not only are you doing your job and ticking the box, but you're also showing up for meetings when they need when they need to happen and you're not feeling well. Oh, I'm so sorry. Like are you like on your like you need to be in bed sick? No. Okay, so get out of bed. Like you're tired. Nobody cares, right? Just as an employee, these are things you can't be a baby about. >> You have a responsibility. >> But as a boss, you in a certain sense, like when you run your own company, again, you have obligations. It's completely opposite. You're like, "Okay, I don't want to come into work today. As long as nobody's relying on you, I'm looking to check my schedule. Nobody's nobody's on my calendar. Great, >> right? >> I'm going to the beach, >> right?" >> So, and understanding that and the dynamic is like it's super interesting. >> As an employee, what did you miss the most being a business owner when you were a business owner? autonomy, personal autonomy. Um, I always like to say you want to be partners with your wife and Hashem and that's it. Now, when you work for somebody, as much as they don't own you, they own you. They're paying your bills. So, >> they're paying you so you can pay your bills. >> They're paying your bills. Let's put it that way. Let's cut out the middleman. They're paying you so you can pay your bills. essentially they're paying you um to pay your bills, right? And when you do that, you you kind of lose a little bit of yourself. Your individuality, your like enthusiasm for life can could get dimmed out a little bit because you're kind of on someone else's program. It's like I can rent an Airbnb in Costa Rica for Sukus and I could chill for $10,000 or I could take the same 10,000 and go to Gateways or whatever. I don't know the prices on these things, but >> Right. And like when you're by gateways, you're like lunch is at 3:00, right? You come at 3:30, you're going to go hungry. I mean, obviously not gateways because they're a great program, right? >> But you get what I'm saying. When you work for yourself, it's it's it's really not like that. >> Well said. Um, looking back at those two chapters of your life, what would you say is the biggest lesson you learned? I think that for me personally, I actually hate saying for me personally because by saying for me, you're saying personally. >> Fair. >> And I always tell people how you what do you have when you when you turn on your faucet in your house? Where's the water coming from? >> Okay. >> I want you to answer the question. >> Outside in the street. >> No, I'm saying what's the tank? What's the thing cold that the water comes from? >> The water tank. >> Okay. So, that's okay. But people say hot water heater. No, the heater makes it hot. >> You got it. >> Separate. >> Yeah. Learn the thing to when the furnace goes out and you call the plumber and you ask him, "How do I do this?" and he helps you, you figure it out. >> Exactly. So, where were we? What was the question again? >> What was the biggest lesson you learned from those two chapters of your life? >> I think looking at yourself and looking at your strengths and your weaknesses and what kind of person you are when the doors like behind closed doors makes such a difference on who you are as a person professionally. You're trying now again for the third for the second time opening your own business. >> Very exciting. As a business owner myself, I think if someone can hack it, they should. Um, but many people can't take the stress, so they shouldn't. But you're going to try. You're trying now again. Why? >> Because I believe so strongly in what I'm doing. Um, I think that the product that I offer is so unparalleled in this industry. >> Not as a pitch, but what what do you mean by product you offer? >> There are a lot of great contractors out there. >> Correct. There are people that know how to build, but the entire client experience from start to finish is something that nobody's ever seen before. >> What do you mean? >> I always give the example of going into a Rolls-Royce dealership. You spend $600,000. How do they treat you? >> With respect. Right. Right >> now he spent $600,000 with a general contractor. How do you get treated? >> What? Good point. >> Right. And it's the same money. So this is different transaction. >> Right. >> So my my mission again, this is what I've and always dreamed about doing is creating a process creating positive associations with the construction industry, positive associations with building custom homes. And I love it so much. And like I you can't get me away from this stuff. It's I got to do this. I have to um you know and thank God a lot of people reaching out that we are going to be do doing beautiful projects for so a lot of custom homes additions. >> What happened that you're like you know what let me try again. How did that click? Was there >> I think I realized at a certain point that professionally I was only going to get so far um >> as an employee >> as an employee from a financial perspective. But there are some people I have an uncle who started off as the schlak shamus which for those listening and don't know what schlak shamus means think of as like a right-hand but lowlevel your driver he's getting your coffee getting your cleaners started doing that for the owner of B&H and that's how the story goes I don't know if it's so accurate but this is what I've heard um literally ran his errands 20 25 years ago and then he started giving him more responsibility or He started taking on more responsibility and slowly he started taking care of his real estate projects. Today my uncle is the CEO of a company called Houseion. They are major developers in New York City. They also have a big construction company called 9inth Avenue Construction. >> Sure. >> So, oh my gosh, what was my question? >> That if I'm an employee, why shouldn't I stick around and see if I can make some more money? >> Right. So, he he has employees who are making good money, >> right? So you can do well maybe not in that company but why not try to find another role as an employee versus I'm gonna start now again as an build my own business. >> I think that I'm just super unique in a certain sense where I don't fit in a mold of that >> you too entrepreneurial is that it >> I'm extremely entrepreneurial. I'm always thinking about different ideas. My wife and I my wife's extremely entrepreneurial as well. We'll be like just like driving down the Parkway and we'll both be like, "Uhhuh, let's do this." >> I love that. >> And it's like, "What's the first thing you do?" >> Right? >> Go online, buy a domain. >> Fair, >> right? That's a like the amount of domain names and and again, I intend to actually start most of those businesses. I I have I I think there's an incredible opportunity to >> You're going to need the right people for that. You can't do everything yourself. >> Well, I know where to go if I need the right people. >> Plugging Blackbird. >> Let's go Blackbird. I hope you're enjoying today's podcast. Today's episode is sponsored by Blackbird Recruiting. Chad GPT, what do you think about Blackbird Recruiting? >> Blackbird Recruiting, the team that finds you the right people so you can stop wasting time on resumes that look like they were written by someone's dog. If you're a business owner struggling to find top talent, let Blackbird do the heavy lifting. They'll help you find candidates who actually get it. Visit blackbirdrecruiting.com and let them take your hiring game to new heights. >> You heard it here first. Enjoy the rest of the episode. >> Welcome back. Um, but you can do well as an employee. I guess you're too entrepreneurial to >> Well, >> do it long term. >> Well, and well, I think again I think successful success success has nothing to do with how much money you make. >> Fair. So, I think you could be successful as an employee. I don't think you can do well because there's a certain threshold of money. Meaning to say if it was up to me, I'm when I'm in sh and I'm in Shiners and I have a few dollars in my bank account. The guy comes over to me with his card reader, I'm giving him $18, right? >> I'm not giving him a dollar or telling him, "Here's take 50 cents, give me back two quarters." Right? I I have so much I have such a large vision financially of where I want to be at. I want to be able to go and sponsor people's grocery bills in the grocery store, right? like not tell them. Just go into Evergreen and say, "Hey, here's here's $100,000. The next $100,000 that the credit card bounces, it doesn't bounce. It just goes through." Right. >> Right. >> And I can't do that if I have an employee. So, in order for me to further my financial goals, I have to. And it's sort of a necessary evil, if that makes any sense. I wouldn't say it's evil, but I'm saying that's really the wrong word to use. But the idea of sacrificing yourself a little bit and going out there and creating something that you truly believe in is really the only way to get to a point where you could be do well. I think you could be successful as an employee, but I don't think you can do well as an employee. >> Good point. And I think as we get to the end of the podcast, I think I have one more question. Um, first of all, I want to wish you tremendous luck on your new venture. >> Thank you, Amain. >> Sam Schwarzblot 2.0. Do you have what's the company name? >> Kasa Luso. >> Interesting. What's Lusso? >> Lusso means luxury in Italian. >> Oh, so Kasa is house. >> Kasa in Italian is house. And I had a very long DMC with Chad GPT until we came up with this name together. Um, >> the domain is available. >> The domain is not available. >> I mean, you bought it. >> I bought it. >> That's what I'm saying. You bought the domain. Kasaloosa. >> Well, funny because sounds luxurious. >> They didn't have like one with one S. Kasa in Italian is with one S, >> right? >> So, I did it with two S's, >> but then you're going to have to explain it. >> Correct. Which is great. So, I have Kasa, Lusso. They both have two S's in it. You know who else has two S's in their name? >> I do. >> Right. It's your initials. >> Exactly. >> Um, I will introduce you to a phenomenal designer if you need a graphic designer. >> Fantastic. Um, that being said, I think for my last question, uh, if there's someone who has a has construction in their DNA, they're thinking about becoming an employee and then or starting about their thinking about starting their own shop or becoming an employee first, then opening their own shop or just straight away opening their own business just like you did. What advice would you give them? Um, I think it's important. >> Oh, >> yeah. That goes without saying, you know, the situation with the fish on the dock, right? >> Yeah. >> Everyone knows that. >> Um, I think that if you're going to be an employee or you're going to be a boss, if you're going to be, and I use that term like be a boss, a boss, >> right? You're going to go out there and work for yourself. Um, I think it's super important to really understand what you're doing. So, I always say construction is a me too industry. And what I mean by that is, oh, your uncle, he drives an Escalade. He's in construction. Me, too. I'll also be in construction, right? And how hard could it be? And people don't understand the intricacies and the levels of detail that you have to get into and the technical knowledge you have to have. So, like, I've done tremendous amount of research into everything that I do. And I've essentially taught myself every trade and every angle of every trade so that I can actually understand it because we're he's a subcontractor. If I don't know what they're doing, then they're just going to do whatever they want. Um, so if you're going to be in construction, really understand your craft. So if you're going to be a hardwood floor guy, be the best hardwood floor guy by understanding how hardwood is manufactured, how it's finished, what the maintenance on it looks like. Um, aside from actually understanding how to run a business, which is a whole separate thing that you have to figure out because you could be the most talented person, but if you don't have the right business backing you behind your skill, then it's just really more of a hobby than a business. Um, but you really have to understand every detail. So if you're going to be an employee, like understand what you're doing. you're working for a commercial company, okay, understand con commercial construction 120%. >> Right? >> If you're going to be residential, understand residential 250%. And it's sometimes there just parts of construction that have nothing to do with construction. Like if you're going to deal with a homeowner, you have to know how to deal with that. You have to understand how to deal with people's feelings and emotions and their life savings that they're putting into this project. It's not you can't just dismiss their concerns or feelings. You have to really take care of them. You know, you really I think it's super important as well. I mean, I think having a mentor, having somebody who's been there before, um, >> an older brother, >> older brother, for sure. Yeah. I mean, again, mentor can take many different shapes. Mentor isn't necessarily who you would envision being your mentor. Sometimes it's somebody who's in a different industry, but they've been in business before, >> right? >> Um, sometimes if you're in an HVAC and the guy's a plumber, he might be your mentor, too. It doesn't really matter if you're using a pipe or a duct. It doesn't matter. You need somebody who's been there before, who's paved this road before. you have in order to be able to not make the mistakes that they made or that others made and try to make the process fun and smooth and as enjoyable as possible. And if you're going to be in business and you're serving end users and you're serving clients, like make it fun, make it enjoyable. Like always remember to have fun. Like you have to have a good time. If you're not having a good time, then just close up. >> I love that, Samuel. Because I like Hebrew names that got us out of Mitsam. >> Yes. >> Um if you're looking to build a house, where are you going to service? Where are you servicing? >> So Rockland County, Muny, Wesley Hills, Forche, Pomona. >> What is Rockland County? It's the same. It's like I service Bar Park and Brooklyn, you know. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Rocklin County. >> Yes. >> Very nice. If you're looking to build, >> call him. Kasaluso. >> Do you want to drop contact info or LinkedIn or how can someone reach out to you? >> Look out look out for my LinkedIn. It's Sam Schwarz. S H V A R ZB L A T. Probably be in the title as well or somewhere in the show notes. >> We'll we'll put it in the YouTube description and Spotify. And I don't just build people's houses. I actually help them fulfill their dreams because I'm not just >> dream build. >> Hold on. Let's just start. I don't just I don't just build people's houses. I'm actually, you know, helping people fulfill their lifelong dreams. And I'm taking ideas. We're not just like, okay, give me a set of plans and I'll build that for you. It's like, okay, how do we create the set of plans? How do we get there first? How do we look at the whole picture and give you exactly what you asked for and do it in a fun, enjoyable way, creating positive >> core memories for you and your family? You know, you're building a beautiful new home. You want your family to feel excited about it. And you don't want to look back and say, "Oh, that was the worst two years of my life." You want to say, "Oh, I enjoyed it so much." I recommend Sam to anybody. >> Love it. Thanks for coming on today's podcast. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel and see you next time.