Binyamin Segal interviews Nachum Segal about his OCT NOV & DEC ‘23 trips to Israel

JM in the am on a Monday morning and I am privileged and honored to have a special partner in our studio to conduct a conversation about some of the things that I experienced in Israel recently uh some of you may have been tuned in when I got into the discussion on the air in Israel about who would be an appropriate person to speak to me about um what I saw heard and felt in Israel and many people recommended and suggested Benyamin seagull and sure enough Benyamin seagull is here good morning Benyamin good morning thank you so much for having me it's such a pleasure to be here it's great to have you here and I look forward to this conversation I uh wonder what it is that you're going to be asking about but I would love to use this opportunity to educate people more and more about what's happening in the Holy Land yeah and I was so excited when you asked me about this because you've been to Israel three times since October 7th I've been to Israel zero times the only experience I've had with Israel is speaking to you uh while you're there and understanding understanding what's going on on the ground and seeing uh what people are going through and asking you uh what's happening so I'm very very excited to be able to learn more in a more formal setting as well appreciate that um so I'll definitely start then um and I think the the question that all of us here as American Jury are asking what is the mood on the ground in Israel not everyone has been there not everyone has experienced it a lot of people have done whatever they can here but what is the general mood on the ground and how has it changed in your three trips from the first to the second to the third well I think it's hard to um sum it up in a couple of short sentences but I'm going to try because it could be very effective that way uh when I got to Israel the first time after the terrible tragedy I I would say that uh everybody was in a state of complete shock um they had been hit with a with a um a terrible brutal attack so hard and uh it was it was a an entire population of people trying to just process what they had been been through uh and the brutality of it and the uh and the speed of it and the lack of of intelligence and defense for it and I think all of that was evidence uh was evident in the first trip and it takes a while you know when someone gets you know hit in the gut hit in the mouth it takes a minute or two to to come back to yourself and I think that that whole period of time was sort of like that I remember the first time I was there there was no war yet there was no ground offensive so was really just everyone thinking about the hostages um the the terrible episode they had all just been through and uh thinking about when is this war going to start already because there was such a desire to get things going in terms of uh I don't want to use the word Revenge but in terms of Justice against the enemy uh the second trip was more of a um um was more of a uh a calmer situation in Israel some of the hostages had been released uh the ground offensive had already begun and people felt like there was you know that victory was imminent it may not be uh imminent meaning you know in a few days or a few weeks but imminent hopefully in the long run that the government and the Army understands the reality of having to eradicate the enemy and the third time which was just you know a couple of we which was just last week out back last Sunday was um as I kept saying on the air was uh it was hard to avoid the constant discussion about the hostages not a criticism uh not to the families or the media it's a topic that needs to be out there but it's depressing when you think about the situation that the hostages are in 13 shabbatot and captive God knows what's happening with them and then of course if it's not hostages it's Fallen Soldiers so many funerals so many shivas so many um um you know depressing episodes um so it's different each time like for instance I went to Barry last Sunday and um I guess at this point two Sundays ago and I said to myself you know everyone who was down there right after the brutal attack saw death and destruction we just saw destruction we didn't see the death we imagined it as we were told what was going on in the specific streets that we were on and the specific homes that we were in but we had not seen the the death that so many people saw right after uh the attack and uh but honestly the destruction was enough just to see what had happened in inside the homes and what people had experienced and what the communities now look like and how much they need to rebuild was enough for us frankly um at least for me at this time so this was the range of emotions and the range of Impressions and uh Israel's going through a tough time Israel's going through a tough time but I think every every few days every few weeks it's a different type of emotion there wow that is it's a lot a lot to take in a lot to be able to process it kind of sounds like like you went through your own sort of morning period throughout the three visits as well where yeah I'd call it more grief than mourning because there's just so much there there's so many different things that you're that you're grieving for civilians Army missing um you know just the whole idea of being uh you know victims of a surprise attack there just so much going on and the future you worry about what the future holds and everyone has an opinion so it's a uh it is a full range of emotions no doubt what is the mood politically there is it uh everyone wants to change right now or is everyone kind of uh understanding that we have to get through this war and we'll figure it out later I think that um you know in all fairness a lot of people do the whole we should get through the war and worry about that later I don't know if that's fair because I think people want to be reassured that in the future there'll be strong leadership that there's someone coming up in the ranks whether we've heard of them till this point or not who's going to be able to navigate the situation I mean I mean frankly don't you think that at this point no matter where you are in the political Spectrum we have to have someone leading Israel that at least can give the impression that they are a unifier you know at least give the you know the spirit to the country that you know we have this tremendous Aus we have all this Unity that we've all been experiencing let's try to maintain some of that as we go forward politically and I don't know if that person is on the political is in the political Arena yet in Israel I have no idea they might be they may not be but I don't know if it's fair people always say you know let's deal with the war now and then we'll deal with the investigations and this and that I mean I was one of the people who called for the prime minister to resign immediately I thought it I thought that would be the best for the country okay I don't know if I was right or not a lot a lot of experts say I was wrong but um but I I I think it is fair that people you know think about um what the future holds you know it's funny the just last week the Prime Minister insisted that he's not leaving his position I said to myself you know like if if we really are going to do what's best for the country now wouldn't it be better not to say things like that so if he's going to be out there insisting that he's staying I don't think it's so bad that people are out there thinking who's going to be next to take us forward yeah that that definitely makes sense and it's you know one of the coolest things and less least spoken about I think uh about the entire October 7th episode and uh the aftermath is that there are a lot of groups that were already formed uh who were against the uh judicial reform and in other countries and with other people not they wouldn't necessarily have pivoted to be able to just go ahead and take all that organizational power that they have had and all the volunteers they had and turn it into a completely Aus related Mission and I'm not just talking about it from the left and from the right I'm talking about from both sides um and I think that's something special and something that we hope to continue has there have you seen anything on the ground like that been speaking to people who you wouldn't traditionally speak to uh or uh groups that you wouldn't traditionally speak to or hearing from people who are speaking to groups they wouldn't traditionally speak to and how they're able to come together or is that not something that we're seeing oh I I think we're seeing it to a point that we've never seen it before it's remarkable to me that um everyone really does feel like everyone's a brother and sister now we've always said it and we've always you know known how to put it in words but now it really does feel like people have this tremendous care and concern for everybody no matter what their background is you know E look sometimes you know how it is with our people sometimes um automatically um when something bad happens to a specific group or people of a specific background people will start judging what they were or were not doing that day or what types of activities they are or are not um engaged in we haven't heard any of that which is unbelievable and by the way both sides are guilty of it uh generally we haven't heard a word of that which I think is incredible and and you know people lament already oh this feeling of unity is not going to last I hate to tell you or I'd love to tell you I don't know if it's not it may not last to the degree that we have it now but it it would be impossible for me to believe that a remnant of this is not going to stick around that some aspect of this unified effort is not GNA yeah there'll be political fights and there'll be arguments and there may be ralles and protests again you know against each other someday who knows but it's hard for me to believe with everything that's happening that there isn't going to be some type of uh residual Unity that remains after all this is over so you think that there dialogue between people and able to have more communication as opposed to just getting into the streets and immediately I think that's dependent on who it is on who the leader is I I think if it's somebody who really has a vision like that um you know I hope the left doesn't mind me saying this but if a reaganesque figure arises in Israel who sincerely wants to bridge gaps and get people to talk more than yell and scream than I think there is some hope again I don't know who that is I hope that person does exist and that they're going to have an opportunity to to make their position and and their and their feelings known on these matters but um but that's the hope the hope is that we'll be led by the right person or the right people who will understand that dialogue and Brotherhood outweighs all the other stuff that we've been through yeah that that would be that would be the dream yeah what are the um you know we in America always talk about what we could do for Israel and obviously the obvious answer is always money we can give money we can give support um I've heard a lot of stories about people uh including from Yoshua my brother your son and his wife tamima who were brought letters to Israel and uh handed it to the soldiers and you would think that the soldiers were handed a million dollar check how how well they reacted and how much they loved it and all those small things but is there something more is there something larger uh is there something different than the community can be doing showing support um being there for people uh traveling there talking to people in Israel checking in on your family is there anything that they could be doing that's well I think people are checking in on their family and friends you know thank God I wish they'd be traveling more I think it's a uh you know sometimes you're in a you're you know there during the week where there's a lot of people you think oh wow look how much you know travel's back tourism's back but I don't think that's true tourism uh to the level that we need it um I hope that that returns um during war time it's hard to expect it but I hope it returns but it's funny with the soldiers because when I when I saw this soldiers on the first trip and I and I asked them about the letters you know and they spoke about how meaningful it was to them and back then I had the same reaction I was like you don't just toss them in the garbage like you know why on Earth do you want letters from people in America no they they hang them up on the bulletin boards of the base you know in the uh in the mess tent so to speak so everyone could see them some of them actually go to sleep with somebody these letters next to them like they feel a tremendous connection to the children and to the adults around the world who are communicating with them and reassuring them and blessing them Etc that that's unbelievable look what what could people do I would aside from the money which you you know you noted as pretty significant thank God uh I would love for people to do more advocacy in Washington and on a local level uh I don't know how we can't um mobilize I don't know why we're not mobilizing you know um people in every Community the United States to call the Red Cross every day uh and again you know I know the Red Cross many people say that it's you know as we say in Hebrew Abal but still I think they they need to be communicated to every day the United Nations has to be communicated to there's certain members of Congress uh both those who are traditionally not favorable to Israel and those like John fedman who has been you know so out there in support of Israel they need to be you know communicated with they need to be told you know what the truth is and in fed's case they need to be complimented and thanked for what they've been doing so I just wish people were a little bit more if if we're not going to travel to Israel on Moss then at the minimum I would hope that they would you know that people in our community would would take that rooll on of just being in touch with members of Congress and being in touch with those agencies that are key I think on paper at least in the uh release of our hostages yeah that that that is a something that everyone should really be doing and it's free doesn't cost them anything cost a couple minutes of time everyone could find a few minutes to do that and it's really really important uh both the positive and the negative by the way they should you should be calling to think also cuz there is nothing that uh you know they want to hear more is that when they're in a tough position and taking a really really strong stance and sometimes unpopular opinion in this country now unfortunately they should be thanked for their stance question um I want to Pivot a little bit and just ask uh specifically about your trip and there are a lot of missions going to Israel now uh from the states and it's really really amazing uh I know a lot of people who have went on these missions and they've you know talked about how life-changing it is uh you've gone on your own sort of mission it's Unique and that it's uh your own with your uh you know you you bring 20,000 or however many people are are there every single day with you uh tens of thousands of people with you um every single day uh on your mission uh what was the most uh impactful moment of all three trips and one that you carry with you today oh boy um well it's hard not to you know mention the the barer into stot stot because I'd been there so many times and I've seen the community there so active and I've passed that police station dozens of times and now it's completely flood there's nothing there on that plot uh so that's that's you know that's difficult um I I saw pictures of which I think the New York Times printed if I'm not mistaken uh pictures of people being killed in stay Road at a certain bus stop area literally just gunned down by the enemy so I was there I was there on the spot and I think that that was maybe those maybe that's the answer to your question those moments where I saw where the terrorists breach the gate in Barry and I was standing on the street where they had no more room in the cars that were that were kidnapping people so they just murdered them on the spot um you know those for some reason that 3D experience of seeing the beautiful neighborhood and what's happened to it that to me was was very very impactful even with being inside the safe rooms that people were killed in and being in homes that were you know bulldozed so that the enemy can get to the to the uh to our brothers and sisters and and all these and all those were believe me they left an impression but that whole 3D approach you know not seeing it in video or picture for him being there on the street and imagining what had gone on there being told what had gone on there and then you know seeing it somewhat in front of you um it was a tremendous impact um I think my interview with the Israeli soldiers was a yeah you know was something that was very meaningful seeing the spirit of um of this generation of both Israeli and Americans who are now serving in the IDF is pretty remarkable um and that was certainly impactful um a lot of Great Moments the PO interview and Kelly explaining all of this to us because he's such an expert on how Arabs think and uh you know and is an expert at telling us how we have no idea how they think so that was really cool um those are just some of the highlights um so I think one of the things that uh has been less spoken about or people have not I have not heard about it as much is that there are both kid there are kids very young kids in Israel and that there is a Next Generation that's about to go into the army um and I think that that could be very scary for parents in Israel for kids for American parents whose kids want to make make alah um you know in a lot of ways the last 20 years going into the army was a really amazing beautiful thing but it was a little less scary in that we weren't in an active War um is there a message that you can take from the people of Israel especially to American parents uh whose kids are about to go into the army or or are going to go in March uh which is a big time to uh join uh is there something that you could say to them about uh any sort ofic or well positive message first of all I'm uncomfortable with this because I've never had that um experience of not sleeping at night um which I and I know people say you know it's cliche is but I have friends in Israel with kids in the Army and it's literal it is very hard for them to sleep at night especially the mothers yeah and who could blame them um and there have been conflicts in the last you know many years even before this where where you know we've lost soldiers and it's and it's devastating um but I would the only or the only observation I can make that would be at all um comforting I don't even know if that's the right word is that the spirit of the youngsters who are in the Army is off the charts it is absolutely remarkable you would think that there'd be an ounce of fear in some of them and their resolve is just amazing and I think it's like this all the time but now it's on steroids um you know Kelly in the conversation that we had um I said to him that you've been quoted as saying that uh that that you've observed that this group of soldiers is committed to this effort at a level you've never seen before and he said that this group of soldiers was born was born before they were able to um remember the Oslo Accords they they were born in an era post Oslo Accords disengagement time and all they ever heard about was uh they never heard of Peace treaties all they ever heard about was bus bombings and Terror attacks and you know every day waking up to more disaster and therefore they're very determined to go ahead and and win this thing uh unlike some of the commanders he said who are of an older age and still and still can't shake the education they were given about the possibility of a two-state solution Etc all right so he's from a certain uh vantage point so that's how he put it uh but I think that the you can't deny the unbelievable um spirit and resolve uh commitment that this group of soldiers has at every level at every single level whether they they're 18 or they're 22 or or they're in the Air Force or they're behind the computer or they're inone doing miluim because others who are normally in Krone doing shmir have to go to Gaza etc etc etc and the list goes on and on and it does apply I think to a great extent to those of MIM who are older as well despite his theory one of the things that we've been uh that I know you have a very very strong relationship with neish Bish and all that they do and everything that they've uh accomplished and it's really amazing uh and I've heard rumors about the uptick in Aliah applications uh is that true and is that something that's uh that on the ground people are talking about and people are thinking about and what is their reaction to it well it's definitely true the numbers bear it out every single time there's a conflict imagine this a fullscale war the numbers are way up um I think both Israelis and anglos living in Israel uh as opposed to making fun of us for you know for for this tremendous increase in interest to move to Israel I think they're they're sort of telling us uh or suggesting to us why aren't you here already like look what's happening you know this is this is the uh uh the ultimate is to eventually get to Israel now you have to make that move and I think that that's been there at at least that's what I have felt nobody's really making fun if anything just encouraging people to you know they're they're afraid for us they're worried about us it is a precarious situation here in the United States and they're concerned about that um so that's the first thing I would say and um it's reminiscent to me of when there there was this Ethiopian young exchange student uh a Jewish Ethiopian at our shabas table and he was describing to us all the trials and tribulations of getting his family to Israel of them trying to go through the alah process and they weren't allowed to and hopefully eventually they will which eventually they did months or years later and he sat there at the shabas table saying to us why are you here like I I just I don't understand that you have an opportunity to be in Israel easily I I just explain to me why you're and he was totally sincere like baffled by the whole thing like he just couldn't he couldn't process how he's sitting at a Jewish Home in the United States we're telling him that we could leave in days if we wanted to and he's like trying to understand it when his family is sacrificing everything in order to make it happen from Ethiopia so unfortunately we didn't listen to him or listen at that time but now is the time to listen and the numbers as you indicated are bearing that out I think uh just I have one last question and uh I think both emotionally uh physically and mentally how how is leaving Israel how is it to leave all three times um nobody is enjoying leaving Israel now I never thought I'd have that feeling that it's so difficult to leave nobody likes to leave now uh and everybody even the tourist or a mission that's there just for a few days feels it but the most um impactful thing that I noticed in this area is that um people living in Israel who have to leave for business who have to leave for work who have to leave just to you know come in for 24 hours take care of something whatever that they they just can't handle it they cannot handle it and and it's understandable why because uh you know they're Fallen Soldiers all the time and they're concerned about being out of the country when God forbid someone either close to them or someone they know you know um a family like that is suffering and and they feel bad that you know everyone's here and we're making this commitment to do everything in our power as you described earlier everything in our power to to play our role in this thing and now I'm going to leave now I'm going to even for a day or two by the way it's just it's amazing to me what I hear from people how troubled they are by you have relatives by the way like this who if you said to them today leave they would think a thousand even for Sim they would think a thousand times before leaving because it's just you know and not only that even if there's an uptick in the Stress and Anxiety how can I leave my family even the older people in my family you know I need to to be here to be reassuring and take care of people so it's a it it is hard I think on every level it is as always as difficult as it always is to leave Israel it's nothing like now it is very very hard to leave Israel and um let's hope that uh you know that the need to leave Israel is not as great as the desire to go visit and eventually live in Israel coming from this side of the world world yeah well that's uh that's a challenge to get out uh no question about a challenge to leave and that's I guess I guess a good thing in a lot of ways and I really appreciate your time Dad thank you so much for having me thank you very much we always wondered who the best person was to elicit such responses uh about the trips to Israel and we found the right man so thank you B